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China Businesses The Almighty Buck Technology

Chinese Workers Abandon Silicon Valley for Riches Back Home ( 250

From a report on Bloomberg: U.S.-trained Chinese-born talent is becoming a key force in driving Chinese companies' global expansion and the country's efforts to dominate next-generation technologies like artificial intelligence and machine learning. Where college graduates once coveted a prestigious overseas job and foreign citizenship, many today gravitate toward career opportunities at home, where venture capital is now plentiful and the government dangles financial incentives for cutting-edge research. "More and more talent is moving over because China is really getting momentum in the innovation area," said Ken Qi, a headhunter for Spencer Stuart and leader of its technology practice. "This is only the beginning."

Chinese have worked or studied abroad and then returned home long enough that there's a term for them -- "sea turtles." But while a job at a U.S. tech giant once conferred near-unparalleled status, homegrown companies -- from giants like Tencent to up-and-comers like news giant Toutiao -- are now often just as prestigious. Baidu Inc. -- a search giant little-known outside of China -- convinced ex-Microsoft standout Qi Lu to helm its efforts in AI, making him one of the highest-profile returnees of recent years.

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Chinese Workers Abandon Silicon Valley for Riches Back Home

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  • And yet.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sqreater ( 895148 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @03:30PM (#55909835)
    Universities will not re-think allowing so many foreign students to take the seats of Americans.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      They are a business first and foremost, with a duty to make the administrators rich.

      • Re:And yet.. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by zlives ( 2009072 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @03:38PM (#55909913)

        you can blame the feds/states taking funding away and making them a business first. hey enjoy that tax break.

        • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

          by MightyYar ( 622222 )

          Federal and state funding has not decreased, tuition has increased.

          • by zlives ( 2009072 )

            student grants and supports are part of funding.

            • In that case, include tax benefits as well. Those have increased by $25-30 billion since the early 90s.

              • by zlives ( 2009072 )

                tax benefits only come into play once you are focused in making money rather than providing education. The tax benefits are a symptom of a broken system.

                • I don't think anyone is claiming that the system is not broken. I'm just pushing against lack of government funding as being the culprit - if anything it has been an enabler of the massive tuition increases we've seen.

                  • by zlives ( 2009072 )

                    its probably a circular argument as the universites complain that the reason for increase is lack of funding. :)

                    • I'd be more charitable about believing them if they hadn't sustained something like an average 7% increase over 30 years, whether the state funding was going up or down, and if the problem were limited to state schools. I think it's a complex problem, but easy loans and lavish spending on perks to make the schools appealing to wealthy international students seem to be large contributors. I'm not smart enough to resolve this, but at the very least I wonder why so much attention is spent seeking foreign dolla

    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @03:40PM (#55909925)
      and living expenses. The nice thing about foreign students isn't just that they pay more, it's that they have the money to pay. We've been cutting federal funding to Public Us non-stop since Clinton. Hell, I was there in the mid 90s when my school's paper started talking about how the cuts meant tuition would be over $10k by 2020. They were wrong, we passed that milestone in the mid 2000s. The schools didn't get that much more expensive to run either. Nor did the salaries go up all that much (the admin staff always made a tidy sum). We cut the funding, and it had to come from somewhere. Those tax cuts don't really pay for themselves, ya know.
      • B-b-but when we give money to the rich they'll like...give it all back and make all of us rich! The wealth always trickles down!!!
      • by slew ( 2918 )

        The schools didn't get that much more expensive to run either. Nor did the salaries go up all that much (the admin staff always made a tidy sum).

        FWIW, The staff required to run the University is generally unrelated to the amount of staff that gets hired by the university. Not only do they make a tidy sum, but their ranks swell to consume all budget surpluses, but never seem to shrink at other times. It's a classic government bureaucracy...

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Well, in the end this whole thing cannot be fixed. It is just a sign of China being in ascend and the US being in decline. At the moment, (some) US universities still have an apparently superior product to sell, but that will change in the next few decades as of course some of those going back will become professors in China and eventually, the Chinese will get academic culture right enough to educate their engineers an scientists domestically. The biggest problems they probably still have are conformity an

    • Re:And yet.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @04:03PM (#55910103)

      Universities will not re-think allowing so many foreign students to take the seats of Americans.

      The limiting factor for universities is not the number of chairs in the classroom. It is money. Since foreign students pay full tuition, they are helping to fund all the Americans paying in-state tuition or getting scholarships.

      By "exporting" education, America earns billions of dollars and generates jobs for hundreds of thousands of university employees. Portraying this as a "bad thing" is idiotic. We should be working to make it far easier for foreign students to study in America.

      • by jezwel ( 2451108 )

        By "exporting" education, America earns billions of dollars and generates jobs for hundreds of thousands of university employees. Portraying this as a "bad thing" is idiotic. We should be working to make it far easier for foreign students to study in America.

        It's good in that it addresses trade deficits, provides jobs & funding for local infrastructure.

        What is "bad" is administration intervening in marking students to the same standard across the board, and reducing pass requirements for full-fee paying internationals. Turning a blind eye to plagiarism and cheating.
        This reduces the reputation of the university and affects those that have graduated from it. Internationals don't care as they have their degree.
        This is happening everywhere where exporting e

      • tax the billionaires who benefit from a skilled workforce to pay for maintaining that skilled workforce. It's called paying ones dues. They benefit the most from that work force so they bloody damn well should pay for it. By "exporting" education America's 1% no longer need to maintain funding to schools here. And it shows, they've slashed budgets non-stop for 30 years in the name of 'fiscal responsibility', all the while cutting their taxes via loopholes and offshore banks.

        The reason to bring those fol
    • I don't think foreign students, particularly graduate students, in STEM disciplines are taking seats away from foreign students. My experience with American students is they are not qualified for undergraduate educations because of the horrible quality of K-12 education in the US. The other thing that's happening and will accelerate is that some Chinese universities are becoming world class and will increase the production of world class STEM workers. US colleges will suffer from the lack of tuition from fo
      • Re:And yet.. (Score:4, Informative)

        by HornWumpus ( 783565 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @04:24PM (#55910279)

        Just FYI. American schools do pretty well with better students, which isn't really a surprise, good students are easy.

        It's our bottom 20% that fuck the average. They're functionally illiterate and innumerate. Bottom half+ are innumerate, but that's no problem for liberal arts majors.

        Chinese grad students are still coming to the USA, just not in the numbers previously seen, going only to better schools.

        Qualified American STEM students skip grad school because they want the money, now.

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Lets not drift all over the place with foreign students versus specifically students from China. Why could so many afford school in the US, well, because the government of China was paying and why were they paying because the government of China plays the long game, as well as the short and medium game. Train them in the US, to get a job in the US and to 'well', you get the spy vs spy ramifications. Why are the going back in numbers, maybe because the US is entirely corrupt and it is simply cheaper to buy w

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's amazing how we can blame foreigners and poor people for everything. How are foreign students going back home after getting education abroad even a problem? We're actively trying to kick people out of the country under this admin and we're blaming them for leaving? Hell, it is not easy to be allowed to stay in America. Plenty want to stay and couldn't after exhausting all their options.
      Also, plenty of Americans study abroad and move back home. Is that ok or not? If it's ok for them to do it, what is t

    • Universities will not re-think allowing so many foreign students to take the seats of Americans.

      Public Universities would prefer to have all foreign or out of state students. The tuition is far more expensive for an out of state student. Berkeley is probably the top public univ in the US. In-state (California resident) tuition is $14,068 while out of state tuition is $28,014. There's 30,574 undergraduate students. That's $13,946 more per student if they're out of state or $426m more income from just tuition alone income. Berkeley has expenses totaling $2.4B... so adding another $426m to the coffe

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      "Universities will not re-think allowing so many foreign students to take the seats of Americans."

      That just makes international universities more attractive places to attend.

      There are plenty of seats in university lecture halls, and much open time in those halls for more lectures. It's not seats, it's your intelligence or lack of ability to pay. No one is taking anything from you.

      This is like having a US commercial sports team reject international athletes. It's a less lucrative and interesting product.


    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      These students bring money to pay for their education. So, no, the universities will not re-think their business model.

      Of course, one option would be to make US university education much worse, then these students would go somewhere else....

  • Communism (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @03:42PM (#55909941)
    Imagine that. A communist country overtaking a capitalist country in terms of innovation and quality of living. This goes against many discussions I have had here.
    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @04:14PM (#55910191)
      not even a little bit. They're a Kleptocracy. Calling them communist a) gives their system of government more legitimacy than it deserves and b) puts a bad shine on Democratic Socialism, which thanks to a decades long campaign of attacks by various members of the ruling class gets associated with Chinese style Kleptocracy.
    • Imagine that. A communist country overtaking a capitalist country in terms of innovation and quality of living. This goes against many discussions I have had here.

      They do not have us beat in quality of living. Not yet, anyway. And perhaps never will with the number of mouths they have to feed. But they are certainly doing well in the innovation department.

      • If students want to go back there, then the quality of living must be quite adequate.
        • If students want to go back there, then the quality of living must be quite adequate.

          I'm not saying quality of life is bad in China - just that it is not on par with the US. At least not in my experience. If you make enough money, then you can live incredibly well there. Going out to eat is dirt cheap in China, for instance. Unless you go to really fancy restaurants all the time. You could probably afford to have some cleaning staff and things like that to compensate for the other areas of life that aren't quite as nice as the US.

          • For the tech elite, quality is good. Main issues is uneasiness about the government and being able to breath.

            But for the bottom 80%, they are still an underdeveloped and struggling.

            Mind you, I would not want to be poor in the USA either. But certainly the bottom 50% of non-US western countries lives better than most Chinese.

    • The soviets did get to Space first so not like being beaten by Communists is something new for USA

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      China spent a few decades to understand who the USA educated its very best students.
      How they got tested before for years before university. Who got into university and why. What was done in lectures and given to study. What lab equipment was used for that generation considering the gov, mil, science, consumer products in the USA at the time.
      Say from the 1980's to 2017.
      Once China fully understood how the US education system worked and sorted populations over a generation. What created the best creativ
      • Not entirely true that the Chinese students did not pick up anything about freedom, democracy and the civil society. That is why the Chinese government has started to actively discourage western education as leading to "cultural incompatibility".

        China is changing again, fast. And this time not for the better. Xi Jinping is taking them towards a dark place. Total control by a hierarchical party, enforced by all encompassing technology. Social media is a tool for control, not freedom, if used "correctly

        • Re:What they learnt. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by AHuxley ( 892839 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @09:30PM (#55912275) Journal
          China has a political firewall to keep democracy and the CIA, MI6 out.
          The only remaining "civil society" in China is communist.
          The generation of students who got back in university in China after the Cultural Revolution by passing university entrance exams had to be good Communists.
          The students that got allowed to study in the USA for years could only be very good Communists. They would have not been allowed to go to the USA if they where not fully treated to stay loyal to China.
          Re "What will happen when, inevitably, the economy stops growing so fast and corruption becomes more obvious?"

          If a person wants to keep their education, uniform and rank, good city living conditions, healthcare, pension, keep good standing with the Communist list party they don't show up to protest.
          Take part in a protest? All the normal things a person worked so hard for can be removed during one interview.
          Education? No graduation, no results can be found. Address? Not in the good part of a nice city anymore. Healthcare? Much less. Pension? Much less. Wage? Reduced to minimum. Show a good attitude by denouncing others and some of that quality of life will be restored.
          Every protester is turned into an informant.
          East Germany had its Zersetzung to change minds about freedom and democracy.
          China is changing in the way it never lets a protest start by going after everyone who protests. Not just all the CIA, MI6 backed protest leaders.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Obviously, this must be blasphemous heresy. Well China is not really communist. They are some hybrid construct and basically do their own thing. And while there are very stupid things done there for ideological reasons (Ban pornography in a country that has overpopulation? Does not get any more stupid than that....), they are also doing quite a few things right. Of course, with the planned "social score", they just may go into full-blown fascism. But then they may not and actually make it work somehow. (Fas

    • by mjwx ( 966435 )

      Imagine that. A communist country overtaking a capitalist country in terms of innovation and quality of living. This goes against many discussions I have had here.

      Innovation... you may have a point (as the old joke goes, Chinese R&D: Remember and Duplicate).

      However quality of life, a skilled engineer isn't a highly paid thing in the US. You can eek out a life and a career with an average house and car if you're smart and a little bit lucky. Engineers are not paid well, they aren't respected and aren't desired (by employers or the opposite sex).

      Being a western level skilled engineer in China gives you a good house, nice car and makes you very desirable to th

  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @04:04PM (#55910115) Journal
    Don't worry. India still does not want the Sea Turtles back. So there will be enough Indian Americans to keep America on top.
  • Have taught us well
  • Time was (Score:2, Interesting)

    We could dangle financial success as the motivator for getting good talent over here. That's always been understood to be a temporary thing given that the rest of the world can only get richer. Passing laws over here that encouraged outsourcing wealth-generating industries like manufacturing to there hurried that along faster than was good for America, however.

    "No worries!" proclaimed the coastal elistists, "for American freedom entices the whole world to flock here!" Well, in principle yes. But given the
    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      The coastal elistists in the CIA really thought they had China accepting students back that had enjoyed democracy, freedom, fun, pleasure.
      That within a generation the best of the best in China would want everything China did not have thanks to their free education the USA.
      China did not send over its most susceptible students. It sent over its smartest and only the most loyal.
      They took back everything they could extract from the USA and return to China with every useful aspect the US education system gav
  • by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Thursday January 11, 2018 @04:31PM (#55910369) Homepage Journal

    From the viewpoint that the US is not highly welcoming of highly educated US-educated PhDs and Masters from other nations, unlike most EU nations and Canada, it makes sense that they would return to China, where they don't prop up failing fossil fuel industries and have high speed rail, instead of trying to remain in a country in denial that it's the 21st Century already.

    Now, this does point out that it would be in America's interest to encourage highly-educated US-educated PhDs and Masters recipients to remain, via expedited citizenship procedures, as occurs in the EU, UK, and Canada. But that's just an objective viewpoint.

    • ROTFL, so you think the Chinese return to china because they want to be more ecological through use of high speed rail (which is in itself an interesting worldview, that high speed rail is at all particularly ecological).

      Do you actually KNOW any Chinese?
      Have you ever been to China?
      Do you have the slightest idea what the world outside 'Murica is like?

      Just wondering, because your statement above would seem to imply you dont have a clue.
      They leave the USA because they can get much better treatment, more job pr

  • Just one more bit of evidence that the American Empire is failing. Hard times ahead, I wish we could be preparing for them.

To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. -- Elbert Hubbard