Scientists Unsure Where Chinese Space Station Will Crash To Earth 78
In 2016, the Chinese space agency lost control of its Tiangong-1, or Heavenly Palace, spacecraft, five years after it blasted into orbit. Scientists have determined that it will come crashing down to Earth in the coming weeks, be they do not know exactly where on Earth it will hit. The Guardian reports: The defunct module is now at an altitude of 150 miles and being tracked by space agencies around the world, with the European Space Agency's center in Darmstadt predicting a fiery descent for it between March 27 and April 8. Hurtling around the Earth at about 18,000mph, the module ranks as one of the larger objects to re-enter the atmosphere without being steered towards the ocean, as is standard for big and broken spacecraft, and cargo vessels that are jettisoned from the International Space Station (ISS), to reduce the risk to life below. The spacecraft's orbit ranges from 43 degrees north to 43 degrees south, which rules out a descent over the UK but includes vast stretches of North and South America, China, the Middle East, Africa, Australia, parts of Europe -- and great swaths of the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Western analysts cannot be sure how much of the spacecraft will survive re-entry, because China has not released details of the design and materials used to make Tiangong-1. But the spacecraft may have well-protected titanium fuel tanks containing toxic hydrazine that could pose a danger if they land in populated areas.
Obligatory Dead Like Me (Score:4, Funny)
Oh shit. [youtube.com]
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Lol, you beat me too it. Look out kids--cause no one wants to be known as that-person-who-got-killed-by-a-toilet-seat.
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" Look out kids--cause no one wants to be known as that-person-who-got-killed-by-a-toilet-seat."
Kids? I have an orange 72 year-old in mind.
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Kids? I have an orange 72 year-old in mind.
I didn't know Hillary had died her hair. Or did you mean Bill?
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Good Hunch (Score:2)
It'll crash on the one that 'contributes' the least to certain Chinese officials.
The region 43N to 43S (Score:5, Informative)
Places on the approximate 43N latitude include New York, Rome, Tblisi, Beijing, South Dakota/Nebraska border
Places near 43S include Puerto Montt (southern/middle Chile), Tasmania, New Zealand. Pretty much everything is above 43S.
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Latitude 43 is just the northern and southern limit of the ground covered by this station. Everything in between is also included.
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I wonder if GP was going for a joke or whether he thought it was fluctuating between the two in some sort of quantum manner like electron shells in atoms.
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They are related now. By using perturbation theory to predict the motion of planets around stars, after some calculus integration, they recovered the Schrodinger equation. It's like having two sides of science separated by a fog cloud and suddenly finding the two connected. Then they find out that quantum size ball lightning is caused by Shankar skyrmions, which were a theoretical 3D topological shape of magnetic fields but now proved to be real.
Re: The region 43N to 43S (Score:2)
Well, that is kind of why I wrote 'the REGION' in the title...
Re: You're a cunt (Score:2)
Nobody reads the title, n00b.
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Fortunately, where I am at in Oregon is not too far south of the 45th Parallel. We should be safe here, unless their are massive cartoon physics caliber ricochets.
Satellite killer missiles (Score:5, Insightful)
Both the US and China have ground (or in our case Fighter Jet) launched systems capable of destroying a satellite. If it's re-entering in two weeks then it's destruction won't contribute to Kessler syndrome. I'm sure either county is just dying to exercise this system as it's been mostly dormant for the last year.
Re: Satellite killer missiles (Score:3)
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I suppose it's asking too much for a fragment to take out Westboro.
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How very christian of you.
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He said they have been dormant, because usually testing them creates problematic debris in orbit. He is proposing that as it descends further, it might be a chance to use them for something useful and also not have extra debris in orbit.
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He said they have been dormant, because usually testing them creates problematic debris in orbit. He is proposing that as it descends further, it might be a chance to use them for something useful and also not have extra debris in orbit.
That's kind of assuming that the satellite killers will be of much use. They aren't usually designed to make a direct hit, but even if they are, aren't going to take out the heavy stuff like fuel tanks.
Now thaat being said, If I was affiliated with the chinese, I would approve of another country nailing the space station on the way down. That means that anything that lands on an unfortunate location has now become the responsibility of whoever blew it apart on the way down, and altered the trajectory of
Re:Satellite killer missiles (Score:5, Insightful)
Both the US and China have ground (or in our case Fighter Jet) launched systems capable of destroying a satellite. If it's re-entering in two weeks then it's destruction won't contribute to Kessler syndrome. I'm sure either county is just dying to exercise this system as it's been mostly dormant for the last year.
In orbit destruction is just about the last thing you want to do.
While space powers have the ability to destroy satellites, an operation that is pretty simple in fact, the very act makes a terrible mess, and a big satellite like the Chinese space station will make a hellava lot of debris.
Getting enough of this debris in orbit will make the LEO neighborhood pretty much unusable, and enough of it will act as a barrier to anything trying to get through.
There is a well known axiom that our first war in space will be our last one for a long time, until most of the debris de-orbits.
Strategically the only real option is to let the thing de-orbit it self, and let the shit fall where it may.
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It's in a low enough orbit now that the debris would not contribute to Kessler syndrome and just burn up in a couple of weeks, see GP
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That depends on the altitude of the debris - and at 150 mi
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You wouldn't have to worry about that. The debris would still be in a low earth orbit (or at the very least) an orbit that crosses its current orbit, so the debris would all come back down to Earth in short order.
I'm assuming the main reason that shooting it down isn't being talked about is because if you hit it, the end result would be just breaking it apart, and the components that would survive re-entry would be not be broken up and thus would still survive re-entry. The only difference is that instead
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You wouldn't have to worry about that. The debris would still be in a low earth orbit (or at the very least) an orbit that crosses its current orbit, so the debris would all come back down to Earth in short order.
I'm assuming the main reason that shooting it down isn't being talked about is because if you hit it, the end result would be just breaking it apart, and the components that would survive re-entry would be not be broken up and thus would still survive re-entry.
One of the issues with destruction of an object like a space station is that we get particles moving in many directions at many speeds. Not only the space station, but what destroyed it. So some will be boosted higher in orbit a bit, some will be decelerated and enter thicker atmosphere and be destroyed or make it to earth sooner. Anyhow, I'm in agreement that a lot of debris is not going to be all that helpful and the safest bet is on it hitting water as is.
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In retrospect (Score:2)
Perhaps calling it "Heavenly Palace" was tempting fate.
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It'll soon be all over the middle kingdom.
Monkey, we need you!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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RIP Masako Natsume :-(
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Don't worry, if those red sons of bitches try to pollute America, President Trump will turn 'em into crispy critters!
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And then eat them on a sesame seed bun with special sauce?
Re: from china with pollution (Score:1)
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I mean that. That wanted to catch up, only to show they haven't. With luck they wont kill anyone.
Not much luck needed. It's no more likely to kill anyone than any of the ~5-10[*] meteorite strikes that happen every year. Likely less, due to the much lower speed.
[*] Actually, around 500 per year, but most of them are too small to be picked up by radar or found.
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Most of the station will burn up, but it's those spherical hydrazine fuel tanks which are the things that make it to the ground. Basically turning the planet into a giant wheel. I wonder if anyone is taking bets on the coordinates of those coordinates.
The Russians could help, I guess (Score:3)
it will come crashing down to Earth in the coming weeks, be they do not know exactly where on Earth it will hit.
How about engaging those Russians to hit it out of the sky with one of their S-400/500 missile systems.
With missiles that can fly at Mach 15 and a range of over 400Km, Russians should be able to help.
Trojan Horse? (Score:1, Interesting)
Wouldn't it be interesting if it turns out that the satellite is actually a test of the US response to "accidents" like it? There's no way to know, even if it is tumbling chaotically, if is or is not under control. Anything (larger than a couple of kg) is a threat if it's moving at 18,000 mph overhead.
South China Spaceport? (Score:5, Funny)
When it crashes will the Chinese will plant a flag there, build an airstrip, and claim that the area had always been part of China's space program?
Re:South China Spaceport? (Score:5, Funny)
No. But if it crashes in the USA, Trump will charge them a tariff for importing steel and aluminum.
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And if it crashes in Australia they'll get issued a $400 fine for littering.
http://mentalfloss.com/article... [mentalfloss.com]
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Why can't they predict its path? (Score:2)
Sorry, in a rush and haven't RTFA, but given how we can track everything else in orbit, why is this one not possible? (Just wondering if they don't want to admit where they think it'll land..??)
Also, even if the fuel tanks DIDN'T contain any "toxic hydrazine" don't they still "pose a danger"?
This all sounds very irresponsible.
Re:Why can't they predict its path? (Score:5, Informative)
We can track its orbit very well. The unknown is the amount of air resistance it encounters, i.e. how quickly its orbit will degrade. This resistance is highly variable (because the atmosphere expands and contracts e.g. in response to solar activity) and difficult to predict [nasa.gov].
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They are tracking it, and it will break up and scatter all over the place, but they don't know what it's made of, China has not released the design, so they don't know what will survive and make it to the ground, there are apparently some titanium tanks that might make it back. Either way look to the sky after March 27th.
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A true business opportunity (Score:2)
Charge the Chinese to salvage it. Create a space hotel.
Elon? Are you listening?
The biggest cost of space travel is getting things off the surface. Worst case you move it out to high orbit and scrap it for materials.
Pollution and Endangerment (Score:1)
The Chinese aren't concerned with polluting and possibly endangering inhabited swathes of the planet? I'm shocked - shocked - to find such sentiment!
Now THIS... (Score:1)
...Is a real example of man-made global warming.
Consider the Painfully Obvious (Score:2)
No AmiMoJo post? (Score:2)
No AmiMoJo post about how it's still 47 million times better than any station made by white people ever?
That's what he did when their train derailed and the first thing they did was to bury the wreckage because avoiding embarrassment for those who caused it was more important than looking for survivors.
Crashing? (Score:2)
Nuke it from the surface! It's the only way to be sure.
It's all a scam! (Score:1)
Why else would they not cooperate w/ the world to determine where it would likely land?!