Trump Announces $60 Billion Tariff on Chinese High-Tech and Other Goods (techcrunch.com) 547
Following months of investigations by the U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, the Trump administration announced on Thursday at a White House briefing that the administration intends to place about $60 billion of tariffs on Chinese goods, with the bulk of them likely to be focused on the high-tech industry. The White House will announce a final list of goods subject to the tariffs in the next few weeks. From a report: "We've lost over a fairly short period of time, 60,000 factories in our country. Closed, shuttered, gone. Six million jobs at least, gone. And now they are starting to come back," President Trump said during the briefing. "The word that I want to use is reciprocal -- when they charge 25 percent for a car to go in, and we charge 2 percent for their car to come into the United States, that's not good. That's how China rebuilt itself."
Yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
They seem to be working for the countries that impose them on us.
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Obama was fighting for the other side, meaning he is a globalist and not a nationalist. Trump understands that it is no use being a globalist as you will just be abused by nationalists, until you are 3rd world country with no influence.
People even on here seemed
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
Any idiot can start a war, but to win a war we need leaders with vision and teamwork. Do you see any of those traits in the current Trump administration?
As much as I love to see a vibrant domestic manufacturing sector, I don't think most American cares. We decimated our own manufacturing sector with our financial sector and tax codes favoring speculative investments in real estate and the stock market. Did the recent BIG Trump tax reform changed any of that?
I view China as an adversary to the democratic societies, and I am itching for the US to take action against the rising authoritarian capitalistic China. Yet, I am not stupid. Any war with Trump in charge will be a disaster for us. Trump's courage is defined by his Vietnam War deferments while his business acumen is defined by his four bankruptcies. Unless war is like reality television, I fear for the worst under Trump.
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
Agreed! We are in a trade war, however everyone wants the US to lay down and accept their raping of us. Trump realised the Trade war has started and is not going to lose without a fight (in fact obviously the US can and will win, if we fight.)
Obama was fighting for the other side, meaning he is a globalist and not a nationalist. Trump understands that it is no use being a globalist as you will just be abused by nationalists, until you are 3rd world country with no influence.
People even on here seemed to have embraced the hate Trump crap so much that they cannot see straight. Comments about Trump dying in jail or being executed with his family, and then they call Trump a fascist. There was a song by Michael Jackson "I'm starting with the man in the mirror." might be good for some of the teenagers posting this stuff to listen to and contemplate.
You really think Trump has the expertise to win a trade war? Trade deals are decided on the fine print and you've got a guy who can't even read the all-caps. He still thinks the US has a trade deficit with Canada!
He's just obsessed with trade deficits because it's an easy to understand number, but trade deficits aren't necessarily a bad thing, it just means you're selling them more than you're selling them. But if you can actually use the things you're buying then it's actually a good thing.
Of course if you don't believe me try reading his idiot of an advisor without laughing [marginalrevolution.com].
Re:Yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
He still thinks the US has a trade deficit with Canada!
It's worse than that.
He BRAGS about knowing jack shit - and then making shit up when faced with facts. [washingtonpost.com]
He's literally offering lies and delusional fantasies as reasons and motivation for things he does.
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He still thinks the US has a trade deficit with Canada!
It's worse than that.
He BRAGS about knowing jack shit - and then making shit up when faced with facts. [washingtonpost.com]
He's literally offering lies and delusional fantasies as reasons and motivation for things he does.
And yet, he still does better than the professional politicians.
That is not, despite what you think, an argument in favor of the professional politicians.
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Agreed! We are in a trade war,
Leave it to the American to think they are always at war.
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The question is whether tariffs are a useful solution to the negative aspects of globalization.
It's a simple, 19th-century solution to a 21st-century problem. Count me as very skeptical, especially when it will be ordinary consumers and businesses paying the tariff, not China.
Is a dumb, blunt solution to trade problems better than no solution? It's pretty debatable.
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See? This is the kind of comments why I tell americans to GROW UP.
"The enemy"? What are you? 12?
They're not enemies. They're your fucking TRADE PARTNERS.
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Not when he can get the president of the most powerful country on earth to do it!
Careful. When Colbert called DJT Putin's cockholster, he had to have Jim Parsons on the next day and it still didn't stop the homophobe accusations.
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I find it extremely telling how valuable the Left actually holds LGBTQetc people when almost every time they start insulting others who have different views, the "faggot" and "cocksucker" and other homophobic hate-speech labels come spewing out of their mouths.
Some people say the US Left has no standards, but I disagree. They have TWO (at a minimum) of them!
That bit of unpleasant Truth gets -50% Troll -50% Overrated? With all the vile, obscene, bigoted, racist, homophobic, and threatening anit-Trumper and #Resist posts here on Slashdot? LMAO!!
The irony is over 9000!
Strat
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I think your school may need updated textbooks.
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Can’t be sad about this one.
Do tariffs ever work long term? It's basically a tax, which is funny because Republicans are supposed to be anti-tax, pro free-market. Both of which a tariff is not.
I have the same feeling. This tit-for-tat response comes across as immature, un-nuanced, and reactive. Frankly, it's also disrespectful to other countries in the way it is being presented, which essentially forces a hostile response. This is not how to do diplomacy.
China is far more strategic with their use of subsidies AND tariffs. They will use tariffs to discourage Chinese consumers from buying foreign products when comparable domestic products are available, but they will also use subsidies to make
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Interesting)
Do tariffs ever work long term?
Depends on why they are put in place. To pop up a dying industry? Nope, they don't work. To level a playing field caused by a difference in artificial costs by your own policies (e.g. health and safety, or environmental regulations) definitely.
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Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
a traitor to the american way of funding the massive expansion of communist countries?
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Trump will die a traitor in prison either way though.
Reality != Hollywood. The bad guys don't always lose in the end.
Re: Yeah (Score:3)
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Funny)
Your going to be seeing this again and again until one day you won't remember if your right or wrong and start to worry that your loosing you're mind.
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no, but he is a moron for trying to bring back the unskilled factory jobs that are just going to be automated anyway.
those people would be better served with training for a different job. as well as promoting technology such as solar and renewables which can provide those jobs. not propping up the factories and coal mines which really don't have much of a future.
Re: Yeah (Score:4, Interesting)
Well it did take about 70 years or 3 generations for the weavers to become employed again, so we can look at a prosperous 22nd century. The next wave of automation, even after shrinking the workforce by banning child labour, encouraging retirement, forcing shorter work weeks, still needed WWI to get full employment. Once that was cleaned up (always work when it comes to fixing broken windows) and the tractor enabled automation in the farmland, another big depression and once again a world war to fix the employment. That time there was enough destruction to enable a couple of decades of work. Then there was the cold war and the follow up war on terror, which created lots of work building new ways of breaking windows.
Now in America, lots of work building means of breaking windows to maintain the economy as well as the fact that the country is living on credit. Both government borrowing like crazy and the people going further and further into debt to maintain the lifestyle of prosperity.
So this comes with a min wage increase right? (Score:2, Insightful)
Because otherwise how are we going to be able to afford all these now more expensive trinkets and toys?
Oh. Wait. We're not supposed to. It's supposed to further expand the wealth gap and pretty much finish off the US middle class.
Re:So this comes with a min wage increase right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So this comes with a min wage increase right? (Score:5, Insightful)
bad bad bad (Score:4, Insightful)
But more than that it's every day Americans who are going to be paying for it. 20-30% more on every electronic device, gadget, previously untariffed good that was imported, all to do what? Temporarily prop up industries / companies here in the US that won't significantly change their employment levels, capital investment in manufacturing, or supply chains in time until these tariffs are lifted?
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This is not good for anyone, as the slew of economists and economic reporters have been putting out there for the last few weeks.
I mean you might be right, you might not... but these people are almost never worth listening to.
Economists are only ever right in hindsight, and even then; they still take a few laps around track to get it right.
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Except when they you know, help the economy go tits up every 15-20 years or so.
Sort of like a broken clock I suppose?
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This is not good for anyone, as the slew of economists and economic reporters have been putting out there for the last few weeks.
Let me guess, the same economists who preach this also preach that productivity must go up for living standards to go up. Which sounds reasonable until you realize that productivity and living standards have been decoupled since the 70s yet they continue to preach this. These are also the same economists that tell us that free trade is the best while also looking at a declining standard of living even as we've signed ever more free trade deals. The same economists that presided over the economic meltdown
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Which sounds reasonable until you realize that productivity and living standards have been decoupled since the 70s yet they continue to preach this.
Productivity and wages have become decoupled.
Living standards are not entirely built on wages. If you're spending 18 hours/day farming enough food to keep yourself alive, high wages are not going to increase your standard of living. So you need a productivity boost to get that 18 hours down and have high enough wages to use your newfound free time.
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Which sounds reasonable until you realize that productivity and living standards have been decoupled since the 70s yet they continue to preach this.
Productivity and wages have become decoupled.
Living standards are not entirely built on wages. If you're spending 18 hours/day farming enough food to keep yourself alive, high wages are not going to increase your standard of living. So you need a productivity boost to get that 18 hours down and have high enough wages to use your newfound free time.
First off most people in the 1970's weren't on farms. Second, free trade is a huge part of why although the pie has grown by leaps and bounds actual wages have not grown nearly so much and for many not at all. Want a better US? Greatly limit free trade and greatly limit immigration. We've tried the free trade route for decades and only seen living conditions deteriorate. Time for a new approach.
Re:bad bad bad (Score:4, Insightful)
First off most people in the 1970's weren't on farms
Do you need me to explain the concept of "an example" to you?
Second, free trade is a huge part of why although the pie has grown by leaps and bounds actual wages have not grown nearly so much and for many not at all.
The giant hole in this theory is that the huge increase in trade of manufactured goods occurred after wages and productivity became decoupled in the 1970s.
The reason they got decoupled is we decimated unions and started passing a lot of labor-unfriendly laws and US manufacturers started moving out of union-friendly states and into union-unfriendly states. So workers were not able to claw back the money from productivity gains.
Greatly limit free trade and greatly limit immigration
Boy, that's worked great for Venezuela and Japan.
Tip: If you don't allow imports, they won't buy your exports. Which means less jobs and lower pay.
"Free trade" agreements have not been about trade for the last 30-or-so years. They've been about things like intellectual property rights and investments. We already had a world with low tariffs, so "free trade" agreements couldn't make trade free-er. Instead, they allowed capital to move.
Time for a new approach.
A new approach...by returning to 1910.
Re:bad bad bad (Score:4, Insightful)
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Why would they? That's the whole point of protectionism - "wahhh! I can't compete with competitor! protect me uncle
Who makes Trumps Twitter machine? (Score:2)
I would love to believe him, (Score:2)
but every word out of his mouth is a lie, and his administration makes a point of dissing science and information.
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An eye for an eye... (Score:2)
Would it not leave everyone blind?
If China lowered their tariffs, who of you thinks the USA would do likewise and not just keep the money as politicians love to do? I want a show of hands.
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Would it not leave everyone blind?
If China lowered their tariffs, who of you thinks the USA would do likewise and not just keep the money as politicians love to do? I want a show of hands.
An eye for an eye does not leave the whole world blind.
The people who don't poke other people's eyes out to begin with don't get their eyes poked out in reciprocation.
If A eyepokes B, and B (or an agent acting on B's behalf, such as the state) eyepokes A, it ends.
If A (or A's agent) then eyepokes B (or B's agent), it's a new case of eyepoking, not a reciprocal of the second.
While assholes will get angry at reciprocal (just) eyepoking punishments and then start new instances of eyepoking, non assholes will n
Bye bye Boeing (Score:4, Funny)
Then they will just buy $60 billion worth of airplanes from Airbus. We just pissed off Europe not long ago. And they will import chicken feet and other farm products from somewhere else.
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Then they will just buy $60 billion worth of airplanes from Airbus. We just pissed off Europe not long ago. And they will import chicken feet and other farm products from somewhere else.
At the end of the day we can impose even more - they sell us more than we sell them. How about we also make them only be able to own 50% of a US company and a bunch of other restrictions that they put on us. Fair is fair after all. I'm fine with the US focusing on ourselves for a change. It's not like the world will ever thank us for helping them.
Thanks for helping us. (Score:2)
not joking
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Then they will just buy $60 billion worth of airplanes from Airbus. We just pissed off Europe not long ago. And they will import chicken feet and other farm products from somewhere else.
At the end of the day we can impose even more - they sell us more than we sell them.
That just means that China will probably lose something in this. It doesn't mean that the US will win something. In fact, it'll lose even more. At the end of the day, the rest of the world is bigger than the US. If the US isolates themselves from it, it'll be their loss.
I think this is more a question for us (Score:3)
So here's the thing, as consumers we have to ask ourselves an important question especially for the folks who can afford it. (If you're close to poverty then it's understandable that you don't have choices.) But for those of you that can afford it, would you buy a cheap gizmo or a more expensive gizmo supporting your own home country? I prefer to buy locally made stuff myself if I can find it at a "reasonable" price.
Re:I think this is more a question for us (Score:5, Interesting)
Please direct me to a 100% US-designed-and-built smartphone or tablet. Or for that matter, a 100% US-designed-and-built automobile.
Sometimes, there is no local option.
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According to free trade orthodoxy, each country can specialize in the goods and/or services they provide to everyone else, thus increasing productivity and efficiency. So you'd have a small set of goods where local is the only option, and a large set of goods where there is no local option.
Reality is, of course, far murkier. It turns out places can specialize in low labor costs, and free flow of capital allows the split of relatively simple manufacturing from R&D. So you get the Apple "Designed in th
Re:I think this is more a question for us (Score:4, Insightful)
I prefer to buy what works for me. That maybe "local" or a "cheap" gizmo. I prefer not to mix emotions, patriotic or otherwise, with how I spend my finances. I prefer Japanese cars, European chocolate, Brazilian nuts, Central & South American bananas, Chinese iPhones & HP laptops, Indian leather, Mexican watermelons, and Canadian maple syrup to name a few.
On the flip side, I do focus on local when it comes to charity. Since that is an emotional expenditure.
Mixed feelings (Score:2)
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First of all, a deficit is due to two possible things, consumer consumption and investment. If the deficits are caused by investments that is good thing because it will mean stronger future growth.
When it comes to jobs, losses of jobs in the industry is due primarily to automation. And while tariffs will might help the profits and output of these industries to some degree, it won't bring ba
I think I'll just (Score:2)
go pop some non-chinese popcorn, sit back and watch.
Trade sanctions are what they are. If the imbalance of trade is that bad, maybe we could start making things in the US for a change.
Of course there would need to be a literal shit-ton of legislation to incentivize businesses to manufacture here, not including robots.
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Of course there would need to be a literal shit-ton of legislation to incentivize businesses to manufacture here, not including robots.
Well, that's not going to happen. In fact, companies are already coming back to the US to build robotic factories. Low tax on raw materials coming in, low salary overhead, it's a win-win for everyone except people in the US who need jobs.
I bet that this is going to accelerate under these tariffs. If it's too expensive to import from China, we'll just have robots build it here.
It will be interesting times... (Score:5, Insightful)
The US owes so much debt now, that if China starts dumping accumulated debt they could force a spike in interest rates that basically throw the US into a hard recession.
It could lead to a currency war as China could hit back with devaluation equivalent to the tariffs.
The Chinese banks are not very transparent - and if the current swoon turns into a worldwide stock market crash - could be the start of another Asian crisis (we just cannot know) if it is prolonged.
Companies cannot just turn on a dime and change manufacturing (i.e. move it to other locations), so it could spike inflation and it could also disrupt major American companies supply.
Or it could just be taken in stride. The problem is that the markets were already overly exuberant, and there are many bubbles that could be popped
Anyone that claims to know what will happen
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The US owes so much debt now, that if China starts dumping accumulated debt they could force a spike in interest rates that basically throw the US into a hard recession.
That's not how government bonds work. Plus China drastically cut back on buying US debt about 10 years ago (there's only so long that effort could prop up their currency). The bonds have a maturity of 20 years, so a whole lot of China's debt purchased in the 2000s is being paid off.
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So supply goes up, demand goes down - and interest rates have to go up to make the new debt
Interest rates on US debt are not really driven by the free market. They're mostly set politically.
Theoretically, the Fed should not have raised interest rates recently - that should have happened only when they were in danger of overshooting their inflation target. But the reserve board members spend most of their time talking with bankers who make more money when interest rates go up. They've been demanding a rate increase since about 2010, and finally got a couple.
Which means from a supply-and-demand
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You realize that happens whether or not China dumps anything, right?
BIG MONEY!!!!! (Score:3)
Too little too late (Score:5, Insightful)
The trouble with tariffs is they don't work as half measures. If you want to do isolationism like Brazil does that's fine. But get ready for $1500 Playstations and $3000 video cards. That's why you can still buy a Sega Megadrive in Brazil without irony.
Oh, one more thing. Any chance these tariffs will be passed on to me in the form of services like roads, schools or healthcare? Given the $1.5 trillion dollar tax cut we just did (83% of which went to the 1%) I'm guessing no. It's just like the lottery. They claim the money will go to services but then they shuffle it around and turn it into tax cuts for the rich.
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It makes no sense. We lost jobs and shutdown factories over the decades but our overall manufacturing is still way up year over year. Why should we pay more to make the same stuff? You raise prices, demand goes down... which means you need less production capacity. Which results in less jobs and factories AND decline in manufacturing.
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You're missing the point.
The point is that a large portion went to the rich. The percentage is just hyperbole (at this point, in the future its real). But the message is the same, the tax cut was not for the poor or middle class as mr trump tried to pitch, but a tax cut for the rich.
It was clearly for the rich. Even without the 83% story line.
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This is... lame. I guess you c
Trump's pride and prejudice . (Score:3)
We've lost over a fairly short period of time, 60,000 factories in our country. Closed, shuttered, gone. Six million jobs at least, gone. And now they are starting to come back," President Trump said during the briefing.
Factories gone for things that can be made much less expensively over seas, gone from a now more services-oriented US economy. Many, perhaps most, of those jobs won't be coming back and, if they do, US consumers will pay a steep price. Trump is longing for a World that was, but has now moved on.
Tank the market.... (Score:3)
....and the market dropped 700 points. If Trump's headed for another bankruptcy, he wants to take us all with him.
Does this include all the "trump" branded stuff? (Score:3)
Doesnt trump and his several members of his family sell various "made in china" goods (trump shirts, etc).
If "Made in the USA" is so important, why isnt his own stuff made there? Do as i say and not as i do?
WTO (Score:3)
Easy fix (Score:3)
China can even the playing field by dropping their own tariffs. If not, well. . . too fucking bad. They have the means to fix this, they just elect not to.
Seriously, why the hell would any country tolerate doing business with China when their polices are blatantly designed to promote Chinese Companies over foreign ones ? As long as China continues this behavior, I have zero issues with cutting them off from the markets they are so obviously screwing over.
Once sales of their top money makers cease, it won't take long for them to realize how dependent their economy is on getting the rest of the world to buy their crap. No sales = no money = economy going to hell in a hurry.
So, to any country ( not just China ) that plays these games, I say bring it on.
You want to be treated fairly ? We only expect the same in return.
Which, really isn't that much to ask.
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Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Against good-faith trading partner, it is boneheaded move. Against China, that is anything but open market themselves it is not.
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-jcr
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This is just sort of insightful commentary I come here to Slashdot to read. Are you a professional pundit?
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You are wrongly assume that perpetual growth, infinite resources, and non-zero sum trade are real/possible outside of MBA spreadsheets.
It happens that in post WW2 period it was mostly true, but this will not remain so indefinitely. Strong China is a long-term threat to the Western World. Trading with China, on unequal footing, makes China grow more than us. Hence, long-term a trade war with China is better than uneven trade with China.
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
China imposes them on us. And the memo states that tariffs are to be put in place only when things are unfair. If China doesn't want these tariffs, they can drop their own.
The plan is to match tariffs, all the way down to 0. If you don't want these tariffs, you can ask China to drop their own, which would make us drop ours.
Fair is fair, is it not?
(Actually, it's not, because their workers are treated like slaves and they shit all over the environment. We should be imposing higher tariffs on them than they are on us while those things are true.)
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And we them. Example 25% on trucks.
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Except you're also cunts that like to play "technicality" bullshit. You don't have "tariffs" for many products... but you have "select partners", "regulations", and "subsidies" for a lot of areas. You can take the tariffs down to zero, but no one can compete with your corn price because you want to keep your farmers happy, and only a select club can sell you beef and lemons, because of "regulations" on the quality of the product.
You're not a free market. Don't go about bullying everyone into thinking you ar
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Re:Good (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes trade barriers are very bad.
Which is why these reciprocal tariffs against China will hopefully force China to abandon it's xenophobic, racist, and anti-free market trade barriers that it has maintained for years and years.
So Trump is clearly trying to end China's boneheaded move of having trade barriers against U.S. products.
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Nuke it from orbit.
It's the only way to be sure.
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Trade barriers are a bonehead move. Always were, always will be. Even when dealing with dealing with Fascist Regimes, Communist Dictatorships, Massive Genocidal Maniacs, Murderous Muslim Theocracies, State Sponsors of Terrorism, Countries deploying State-sponsored Hackers to loot IP, companies forced to share their IP merely to sell in the country, Human Rights Abusers, and Kleptocracies.
Remember, Trade barriers are a bonehead move. Always were, always will be.
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The Alt-Right Universe. It's a bit of an odd place...down is up, left is right, anyone with a degree is over-educated.
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Re:Good (Score:4, Informative)
I miss the days of decency and cooperation.
Fact: You're not old enough to remember such times.
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For fuck's sake, why would you want Trump to do anything? Ever noticed anything he touches gets slimed?
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no need for this trash talk unless your are a hateful person yourself.
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Beside speculating on the behavior of others as if they all conformed to your projected image, what truth did you intend to state?
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Hint: there are darn few hard leftists in the US. Sanders is about as far left as they come, and Sanders is centrist by the standards of most of the rest of the developed world. The Left doesn't control much in Congress, even when Democrats are in power.
Nor do leftists call reasonable liberals "alt-right" and "fascist". We reserve those for the insane right wing. If you want to call those folks "reasonable", you should probably get out more.
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55 45 6 N 37 37 4 E
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Or if his reasoning is to "make things more even"... does he even understand what the hell that means? Especially in a global economic environment. SMH on this guy's logic. Where the hell is he getting his guidance from??
Probably from the squirrel hiding as his toupe, controlling him like the rat in Ratatouille.
Re:Good for the average Slashdotter (Score:4, Insightful)
Where do you think the parts are made that you will use to repair that formerly-cheap, now-expensive tech bauble?
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Everything Trump does is a childish ego response to prove he has a bigger dick.
Like the majority of EVERYTHING that is sold in the US is made in China. So how's this in any way good for Americans and American companies?
Of course ... Would be much nicer if things were not offloaded to China constantly as that's usually the first step in loss of the quality of a product.
You're answering your own question.
The proposed tariffs are reciprocal.
If China doesn't like them, they can lower the tariffs they impose on us, and we will respond in kind.
Alternatively, China can keep being unfair, which should cause manufacturing to move away from China and either to the US or to somewhere with more equitable trade agreements. Such changes will take time to play out, of course. But Trump has been shouting about bringing manufacturing back to the US for years now. If he can do it, it'l
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Why would China get into that kind of war, which it can't win? Do you know how much US debt China holds? Do you have even the faintest idea what would happen to the US dollar and the US economy if China started dumping it? You should look it up.
Of course, maybe those consequences could be avoided if another country, like Russia for example, decided to start buying it up at a discounted rate.