Duolingo To Silicon Valley Workers: Move To Pittsburgh, Where You Can Actually Afford a Home (venturebeat.com) 342
As the cost of living continues to rise in Silicon Valley, tech companies in other parts of the country are getting more aggressive in pitching workers to move to their cities for a better quality of life. From a report: This week, the language-learning platform Duolingo put up an ad along San Francisco's US Highway 101, encouraging residents to move to Pittsburgh where the company's headquarters are based. In Pittsburgh, you can both "work in tech" and "own a home," the ad touted. Duolingo CEO Luis von Ahn told VentureBeat in an email that the company was prompted to put up the ad after realizing that most of its Pittsburgh employees who relocated to the city cited the low cost of housing as one of the deciding factors.
Von Ahn said that 85 percent of the company's Pittsburgh-based employees moved to the city from somewhere else. The company has 110 employees, the majority of whom work out of Pittsburgh. "One [employee] who recently joined Duolingo moved from the Bay Area and ended up buying a house almost immediately," von Ahn said. "He said he never would have been able to do that before, but here in Pittsburgh, he found a reasonably priced home on a large plot of land and jumped on the opportunity to be a homeowner and have a huge yard for his dog."
Von Ahn said that 85 percent of the company's Pittsburgh-based employees moved to the city from somewhere else. The company has 110 employees, the majority of whom work out of Pittsburgh. "One [employee] who recently joined Duolingo moved from the Bay Area and ended up buying a house almost immediately," von Ahn said. "He said he never would have been able to do that before, but here in Pittsburgh, he found a reasonably priced home on a large plot of land and jumped on the opportunity to be a homeowner and have a huge yard for his dog."
The question is are there really jobs (Score:3, Interesting)
I got lucky. I was born there but left for a job I happened to land by a combination of skill and dumb luck. Thing is, I've got a kid in college. As long as I'm willing to live like crap in a big city then the high pay lets me pay for her school. Had I not landed the job I have now I'd still be trapped and she'd be going to a shitty community college and on her way to a crap career.
So unless Pittsburgh has the jobs for real then techies had best steer clear. And it's damn hard to tell. Maybe fly out there and try meeting with people at the local computer club.
Re:The question is are there really jobs (Score:5, Insightful)
That's off the top of my head. Don't get me wrong, even the relatively large offices are less than 1000 employees each; we're not talking about something like Amazon or Microsoft's *home* office, with 10s of thousands of employees. But there are a decent number of interesting jobs in Pittsburgh, and the place has more character than a random Silicon Valley town. And housing is definitely affordable; you can get a 4 BR house in the city for about $400-500K, and probably a bit less in a suburb with a good school system.
Must love snow
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Re:The question is are there really jobs (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a world out there, build something of your own. Why does everyone think they need to be employed by someone?
I know I am old 62, and over the hump, but I am never going to retire. I when to collage 5 times and in my day had 10k in school debt. I did not get a degree. I educated my self, started a business, paid my old school debt and have been in business for 30 years.
I wonder if I could do the same today, not sure to be honest.But reality is what it is
Just my 2 cents
Re:The question is are there really jobs (Score:5, Funny)
The question is, YOU! job postings! You have skills, those skills have a market!
A new life awaits you in the Off-World colonies! The chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure! New climate, recreational facilities.....absolutely free!
Re: The question is are there really jobs (Score:3)
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I heard you need these annoying things called customers first before you start a business
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I spent 6 months trying to start my own company. Turns out you need sales skills along with the technical skills. I have no sales skills.
It didn't work.
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"I when to collage 5 times"
Did you take English?
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So unless Pittsburgh has the jobs for real then techies had best steer clear.
The city successfully transitioned to a white-collar-based service economy years ago. It will never have the tech market as in the Bay Area, but it is on part with other metropolitan areas like San Jose, Atlanta or Tampa. It's one of the reason why so many people ridiculed Trump with his 'blue collar Pittsburgh" remark last year.
Obviously, people must keep their eyes open whenever they relocate, even if they relocate to SV.
Recruit from Yinzers (Score:3)
There are plenty of smart people already here, Duolingo. We don't need more jagoffs from the Bay Area; the managers from Amazon HQ are already enough of a pain in the butt to work with.
Re:Recruit from Yinzers (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sorry to inform you, but calling a nebulous group of people "jagoffs" qualifies you for the title as well.
It used to be, whenever you migrated any significant distance it was because you planned to assimilate into the culture of your chosen destination. In the past (say, Ellis Island) this went so far as including things like learning a new language or changing your name, things that people were damned proud to do because they considered themselves fortunate. You went to America to become an American, not a hyphenated Something-American. If for any reason you didn't want to become an American, you went someplace else. The trend now is to bring your old culture with you and to never assimilate, claiming victimhood if this ever causes any friction whatsoever.
Bearing in mind that the USA has more landmass than many countries and that regions of the USA have their own cultural flavor, you're seeing the same thing on a smaller scale within the US when people make major moves to different cities. Natives of a place don't like to see an invasion of newcomers who want new opportunities but don't want to respect the established culture. They never have and it's likely they never will. You can see the same thing when rural Southern areas have an influx of new residents who got tired of $Big_City, only to bring many of its attitudes with them.
"Jagoff" is just a much shorter way to say this. In your rush to judgment of a rather nuanced issue, perhaps you could look in the mirror a bit more?
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That is a completely ignorant, revisionist account of what happened. It always took at least a couple generations for people to integrate, prior to which they stayed primarily with their “own kind,” and went into jobs held by the same group.
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Get the fuck out of the Tech Center man. Real Denver is cool as shit.
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"people make major moves to different cities"
Sort of like Californians voting-in idiots that ruin California, then leave California because it becomes so shitty, and then vote for the same kind of idiots when they get to the new place?
Re: Recruit from Yinzers (Score:4, Insightful)
How many other professional jobs have this expectation that people to do it in their spare time as well. You don't see heart surgeons doing operations in their spare time but for some reason a dev has to work long hours at a day job and then spend their spare time doing more dev. That doesn't seem very healthy to me.
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Re: Recruit from Yinzers (Score:3)
Every surgeon does this? I'd imagine that a graphic designer working on public advertising campaigns would have an easier job building a portfolio than a dev working on internal corporate systems. I'm not averse to working and studying in my spare time because sometimes you don't get time to fully understand tech when people are shouting at you to get stuff done, however I have other things in my life as well and I find it unreasonable that in addition to all the hours I work and the free time spend studyin
Re: Recruit from Yinzers (Score:2)
I think you might have replied to the wrong comment. I'm nearly 50 with about 25 years of experience and I'm not quite sure why writing loads of code in my spare time is considered mandatory. Set me a coding test if you want some reassurance beyond still being in the industry in a completely different technology than the one I started in.
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You're in I.T. and it is kind of expected. Last place I worked you were not allowed to eat in the cafeteria or go to the gym. If people saw you there then that meant you are lazy as you should be working at your desk eating etc. Only the non I.T. people get to eat lunch as they work hard everyday.
If you don't some guy in India will and will show initiative to get the job.
Yes some folks out of a job do just this including volunteering for doctors without borders if they are a surgeon to show HR they really a
Not only that, (Score:4, Funny)
I think some need to learn basic math (Score:5, Insightful)
Heck, I have been a self employed contract computer programmer for the last 30+ years, I only go to my office 2 miles from my house 2-3 times a month. I work remote on most everything from my home office with 1-2 local on sites a month with my local clients. I didn't even drive my car the last 2 weeks of Feb 2018.
The illusion that for IT you need to be in one of the high cost urban centers is untrue. Think for yourself, think outside the box.
Just my 2 cents
Re:I think some need to learn basic math (Score:4, Funny)
Think for yourself, think outside the box.
Where I live I can't even afford the box, you insensitive clod.
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Software Engineering is a different beast all together.
Source: my company outsourced 75% of the IT department and I never noticed given how well they speak English for the few times I contact them (pc/laptop upgrade, my dumb butt locking myself out of the intranet).
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Ours are now a bunch of mumbling, sniffing, think-accented idiots who are no help because they are graduate level, just following scripts with no understanding of how tech works and consequently no ability to diagnose or speculate things to try when the scripted approach fails. It takes a lot longer to get anything sorted. But hey, they're cheap.
Stop calling yourself engineers. (Score:2, Interesting)
Engineers are required to be licensed and are criminally liable for defective work that harms. Are you under such requirements?
If no, you are NOT an engineer.
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Engineers are required to be licensed and are criminally liable for defective work that harms. Are you under such requirements?
If no, you are NOT an engineer.
Be that as it may, it's irrelevant to the main topic at hand. But don't let that stop you from riding that strawman, even if it gets you blisters. I'm not judging.
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Well first:
"The illusion that you need to be in one of the high cost urban centers is untrue."
I fixed that for you....but really - stop telling people.
I have an office 5 mi from my house, which is a 2400 sq ft 5 bedroom American Foursquare built in 1909 which we bought for $100k. With some minor work (done 90% by my wife's dad, actually) we now have something north of 3500 square feet.
I go to the office when I want a quite, undistracted place to work.
I'm within 30min (ok, maybe 40) of a major metro downtow
Does everyone really want to buy a home? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Just my 2 cents
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Living where life is good is subjective though.
For instance. I live in South Florida currently. I could live west in the suburbs and buy a nice house, but then I'd be in the fucking suburbs where nothing cool ever happens and I'd have a 45 minute drive (or expensive Lyft or Uber) any time I wanted to do things that I consider making life good.
Or I can live where I do, east of I-95, under the seabreeze, and near the beach and all the other things that I consider "making life good".
I imagine that wherever you
Re:Does everyone really want to buy a home? (Score:5, Insightful)
Better enslaved for 15-30 years and then free, than enslaved for life renting.
Re:Does everyone really want to buy a home? (Score:5, Interesting)
Or, you know, just have sufficient investments to pay the rent. If you want to be successful in life, you need to understand investing - don't be the guy who can only manage to save money as equity. Renting or owning then becomes a decision on its own merits as an investment. Even owning a house outright has a lot of fixed costs.
Rule of thumb: if houses in the area sell for 100 months' rent (for a reasonably-equivalent place), buy ASAP. If houses in the area sell for 200 months' rent, keep renting. In between? Depends on the deal you can get on the house.
Real estate speculation is a whole different topic, but I prefer investment to speculation.
Re:Does everyone really want to buy a home? (Score:4, Interesting)
Better enslaved for 15-30 years and then free, than enslaved for life renting.
Depends.
Typically renting costs $x per month, and buying costs $(x + y) per month.
If you actually have the y, you could choose to put it into retirement savings for the 30 years instead of buying.
Depending on your situation, that might actually turn out better than ending up with an ((age when you bought it) + 30 years) old house. YMMV
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I think home ownership here is seen as a proxy. Overall the housing market is correlated with the real estate market. If home ownership is affordable, then rents can not be completely insane.
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It's certainly in the best interests of the people at the top as you are enslaved to a 15 or 30 year mortgage...
What you're missing is that home ownership is traditionally one of the only reliable means of wealth generation for the lower middle class. A 30 year mortgage is cheaper than rent, and at the end of that time the equity in the house is usually much more than the outlay of that loan.
So yes, "enslaved" for 30 years, but coming out of it with probably 2-3x the wealth you went into it. In terms of ROI, that's not great compared to a lot of investments, but when all you have to invest is 10% down, it's reasonabl
Duh, accept remote workers. (Score:2, Interesting)
I am still flabbergasted by the number of companies who post positions for developers with "NO REMOTE WORK". In this day and age, a company whose main front-facing presence is a web or mobile app has absolutely -no- excuse to demand in-office presence, given the huge economic gradient presented by some urban centers. If they really want the best talent, drop the requirement for relocation, damn it!
For example there was an article recently in the news about how Vancouver tech companies couldn't find enough w
It's a nice place to live... (Score:5, Informative)
Judging from the comments so far, I don't think Duolingo is going to have many takers. However, I lived in Pittsburgh for almost 20 years before I moved back to Ca, so I would like to give it my endorsement. We bought a 5 bedroom house in a good school district for $255k. There's a lot to do in the city. It has museums, professional sports teams, good restaurants, etc... Life is less stressful; people are friendly. It's a family-oriented city, and Pittsburgh is often voted "most livable" city in the U.S. by various magazines. Now, the weather is not great, but it also doesn't get a lot of snow in the winter. Certainly it is nothing like what people imagine if they are still thinking steel mills - those all closed 30-40 years ago. The air is clean and the countryside is beautiful. Now, the big players are health care, research, and universities.
FUCK DUOLINGO (Score:2)
They won't do it (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: They won't do it (Score:2, Interesting)
They're like the worst of the upper classes combined with the fervour of religious fanatics. Preaching diversity while all thinking the same and looking down on their fellow man. The 21st century left is now a bunch of arrogant rich people which is why ordinary people are rejecting it.
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This attitude nicely sums up California's view of everywhere else; punching down and speaking truth to the powerless:
Yep. And that makes me so sad. I so hate having less competition and low cost of living ;)
It will work itself out (Score:2)
At some point in the near future, this problem will work itself out. Housing prices within reasonable commuting distance to the major tech hubs in CA are already at ludicrous levels.
Companies are having to pay astronomical salaries to their employees just so their workforce can afford to live nearby. Even then, home ownership is laughable.
They will, eventually, wise up and move their operations to a lower cost of living area and save gobs of cash from salaries alone. It would be stupid not too and I'm
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It's kind of the other way around (originally) right? Hundreds/thousands of pre-IPO Facebook/Google/Whatever folks with too much money for their own good, all at the same time, started buying up stuff. Since they were making so much money, value went up. Now it's "market rate", and even if you work for them remotely (and live in the middle of nowhere), you get very close to the same rate. It's not just to pay for housing either: if you want to hire those folks and those who got hired afterward, you need to
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They will, eventually, wise up and move their operations to a lower cost of living area and save gobs of cash from salaries alone.
If companies were too stupid to realize this 20 years ago, then they're too stupid to realize it now or anytime in the future. VPNs and remote work has been a viable concept for well over a decade now, so companies don't even have the lame excuse of having to set up operations where the "talent" is.
Nothing will change.
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They will, eventually, wise up and move their operations to a lower cost of living area and save gobs of cash from salaries alone.
If companies were too stupid to realize this 20 years ago, then they're too stupid to realize it now or anytime in the future. VPNs and remote work has been a viable concept for well over a decade now, so companies don't even have the lame excuse of having to set up operations where the "talent" is.
Nothing will change.
But ... if someone lives outside one of the major tech cities, he might pick up some unapproved thoughts!!
living is important (Score:5, Interesting)
Someone is a bit myopic... (Score:3)
This author really think San Franciscans are going to move to Pittsburgh for a cheap home, when they can move to literally any city in the nation other than NYC for a "cheap" home? I think San Franciscans are far more likely to end up in San Diego or some other CA city than Pittsburgh.
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or... (Score:2)
for now.... (Score:2)
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Well, you could choose Houston or Austin, if you don't like the cold! Houses in both cities are very affordable compared to Silicon Valley standards, and there are plenty of tech jobs.
Re:Yeah, right! "Own a Home" (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't go to Houston or Austin. Houston is the armpit of America. You have to air condition 10 months out of the year and you can't enjoy being outside because it's over 100 degrees F with 90% humidity most of the time. There's ungodly traffic and bugs and it's the ugliest city I've ever seen. The only reason to move to Houston is if you have a plan to go there for a year, make a lot of money and then leave. It's awful. The people there are great and the food is great, but it's one big expressway and everything is 30 min to an hour away. I lived in the best part of town and it still was complete shit. There were concerts in the Miller Outdoor Theater all the time, but you couldn't go because you felt like you were suffocating. And, they have hurricanes, which I learned about first hand back at the end of August. Also, there are mosquitoes the size of pigeons.that will attack you if you so much as open your car window (not that you would open your car window because it's stifling outside.
Austin is much nicer, but it's also very hot and very crowded and the traffic is awful and it's played out. If you want to go to Austin, take a trip there in December or something, but unless you've got something going at SXSW. Avoid at all costs. Also, it's in the State of Texas, which might sound good because there's no state income tax, but food is a lot more expensive and you'll spend a ton on utilities to air condition your place and you will be unhappy because it's a very ugly place. Like Houston, most people are nice, but few assholes there are run the state.
Pittsburgh is better. Yes, there's an awful winter, but the people are authentic, you can afford to live there, it has a great music scene and actual history and neighborhoods and human beings outside. And it's a short drive to something beautiful. Unlike Houston. You know how in most cities you can drive for an hour and you'll be out in the country and it will be nice? You can drive for an entire day from Houston and not see anything nice. I'm serious. Nothing but oil refineries in two directions, swamp in another direction and scrub in the other direction.
Don't undervalue the importance of living somewhere beautiful.
Re: Yeah, right! "Own a Home" (Score:2, Insightful)
Pittsburg has a lot of snow. Also one in three people will try to rape you daily.
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Pittsburg has a lot of snow. Also one in three people will try to rape you daily.
Pittsburgh has now totally outgrown its industrial past. Unfortunately, the city has one one zone, office buildings. There is no place where you can pick up a gallon of milk.
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I lived in Houston for about half of my life and being from there I learned to deal with all the problems. Moving back to Houston would be terrible. After living in Phoenix I found the humidity unbearable whenever I go back. I didn't mind the heat in Phoenix all that much though.
I've lived in Pittsburgh 4 years. The winters weren't all that bad. I did think it was funny that my hair would sometimes freeze in the morning though. Imagine that - leave the house with wet hair in freezing weather and it fr
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" Imagine that - leave the house with wet hair in freezing weather and it freezes. Ah, the things I learned in college."
Apparently, they don't teach you about hats. j/k
I grew up in MI, and typically walked 1/4 mile to the bus stop in the winter. If I didn't blow dry my hair after getting out of the shower, it would be frozen solid by the time I got to the bus stop.
Re: Yeah, right! "Own a Home" (Score:4, Informative)
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Nashville. No TN Income tax, weather between Austin and Pittsburgh. Lots of Healthcare companies and tech has been booming lately.
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I'm sorry to hear your experience with Houston was so terrible! Yes, it has its problems, but I would hardly call it "armpit of America."
I'm pretty sure Houston's traffic isn't any worse than freeway traffic in Silicon Valley, I've driven in both places. I agree with you that it's hot and humid, and that is one of Houston's issues. For some people, that's a bigger problem than for others. Personally, I don't want to live anywhere that's cold.
By the way, there are nice parts of town and bad parts of town, ju
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Yes, Pittsburg sounds like a much better option for you.
The air in Houston, by the way, is no more polluted than LA or the Bay Area.
You may not like Republican politics (I don't either, since Trump). But it's significant that in general, people in the US are moving FROM blue states TO red states.
I'm glad you found a place more suitable to your liking.
Pittsburgh Left and Crapper (Score:2, Insightful)
You're glossing over the Pittsburgh Left Turn and the Pittsburgh Crapper.
Pittsburgh Left: First person in line at the stop light makes a left turn when the light turns green, cutting off opposing traffic instead of yielding as required by law, as Pittsburgh lacks left turn arrows at most stop lights.
Pittsburgh Crapper: A toilet and sink in an unfinished basement with no surrounding walls, installed because an unfinished rough-in was not allowed per plumbing code back when many houses were built. Super class
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That's not a Pittsburgh left, it's PA in general. I moved from FL to the Philly burbs a little over a decade ago and that was one of the first differences I noticed. The second and third were live bait vending machines and township maintenance trucks overflowing with deer roadkill (plywood sides and hooves everywhere).
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I visited Houston once. Everything is bigger in Texas, even the compact cars. At least, that's what I told myself when I saw giant SUV's parked in spots that had signs saying, "compact cars only".
Re: It's the Lone Star State, son (Score:2)
Parking spots and housing plots are examples of things that are smaller in Texas.
Re:Yeah, right! "Own a Home" (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, you could choose Houston or Austin, if you don't like the cold! Houses in both cities are very affordable compared to Silicon Valley standards, and there are plenty of tech jobs.
HOLD that thought there cowboy.
I came to Humble (suburb of Houston) in 2014 because of jobs jobs jobs and my previous employer offered me a position with a tick up in responsibility if I moved from Florida (Tampa area). Tampa back then had a HUGE unemployment rate over 10% and was still suffering in the Great Recession.
Housing prices back in 2014 were cheap. I suffering from the Great Recession lost my savings so I was planning to rebuild and buy a home in Houston by now.
Texas had the lowest unemployment rate, cheap housing, mild sub tropical climate, lots and lots of jobs, never entered the recession. .... Fast forward to 2018
Oil and gas prices have tumbled!! I have been laid off 3 times now. All my coworkers who used to make money hands over fist are making $25/hr with no benefits as contractors. I was laid off again as cheap Indians are going to fly in and take our department jobs away thanks to the Gartners Group efficiency experts. Housing prices have gone up 30%!
The job market in Texas is terrible now thanks to the energy industry race to the bottom as the price of oil is still down 70% from 2014. If you are in tech you are not employed in Exxon, Shell, etc. Unless of course you are an H1B1 visa holder.
Meanwhile my phone is ringing off the hook from Florida recreuiters. Tampa is NOW HOT and they are struggling to find competent I.T. workers. Pent up demand from the last recession hit my former place.
My point is in 2018 things have flipped. Once was hot is cold and vice versa.
Re:Yeah, right! "Own a Home" (Score:4, Informative)
The troubles you have experienced are certainly true of the oil industry. I've lived in Houston for 28 years and never worked in oil, and I've never experienced the ups and downs of the job market like you describe. When I interview programmers, I have to make offers fast, because they are getting 2-3 job offers! We've lost several good candidates recently because we didn't move quickly enough!
The thing about the oil business is that it's cyclical. When it's hot, it's hot, and when it's cold, it's terrible. But if you stay outside that industry, life is much more stable.
Re: Yeah, right! "Own a Home" (Score:2)
That's why I ended up in CA. Our tech booms don't fade away in a few years. Tech booms naturally when jobs boom. Only CA and DC seem to have tech job markets that are always healthy, regardless of the wider job market.
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Yep, you definitely don't move to Texas for cool weather!
Traffic though...Texas has nothing on LA or the Bay Area.
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Fuck that. The quality of life in the Bay Area is much higher than Pittsburgh, Houston, Austin or anywhere in the US. The only way to get better quality of life is to move out of the country, which is what I did 20 years ago when I moved to the Netherlands and then Norway.
If you moved out of the country 20 years ago, you have no fucking idea what the quality of life is in the Bay Area.
Shit changes.
Re:Yeah, right! "Own a Home" (Score:5, Insightful)
San Francisco is historically beautiful, buy what’s “quality of life” about needles crunching underfoot, and bums reaching out to grab you as you walk down the street?
Around here, when needles crunch underfoot you’re under a pine tree.
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Fuck that. The quality of life in the Bay Area is much higher than Pittsburgh, Houston, Austin or anywhere in the US. The only way to get better quality of life is to move out of the country, which is what I did 20 years ago when I moved to the Netherlands and then Norway.
And we're glad you did.
Re:Yeah, right! "Own a Home" (Score:5, Informative)
I rather think worrying about feeding a furnace in Pittsburgh is a bit overblown.
A few stats [usclimatedata.com]:
Average temperature: 52F
Annual high temperature: 61.4F
Average annual precipitation - rainfall: 34.8 inch
Annual low temperature: 42.6F
And snow [bestplaces.net] ??
Snowfall is 27 inches. The average US city gets 26 inches of snow per year.
On average, there are 160 sunny days per year in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The July high is around 84 degrees. The January low is 22. Sperling's comfort index for Pittsburgh is a 52 out of 100, where a higher score indicates a more comfortable year-around climate. The US average for the comfort index is 54.
So, pretty much an average climate, with a much lower cost-of-living than the Bay Area.
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I found the yinzer
Actually, no. I'm originally from the Eastern part of the state. But having traveled and lived all over, I can state that Pennsylvania winters were pleasant compared to Limestone, Maine, and Minot, North Dakota. . . . Drive around Pennsylvania with a electric plug for a block heater sticking out in front of your grill, and people will inevitably ask "what's that for ?"
I can just imagine the reaction of a Sillycone Valley resident to -80 wind chills and/or 8 foot snowstorms. . .
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What does CA have that no other part of the USA has?
since you asked: https://answers.yahoo.com/ques... [yahoo.com]
Okay, you can snow ski and water ski in the same day, Earthquakes, Death Valley; with the lowest, hottest and driest place in North America. It's 282 feet below sea level, is only 2 degrees below the worlds record of the hottest day ever recorded at 134 F and the average rain fall is about one and a half inches. We have more people in prison than any other state at more than 170,000. We have more cars than any one else. California is the biggest melting pot in the world. Every fourth person was born in a different country. Mount Whitney, 14,505 feet tall and is the highest place in the 48 states. And only 85 miles from Death Valley. Silicon Valley, home to Google, Yahoo, E-Bay, Apple.......too many to list computer company's. Oh the most cell phones, the most area codes. The Biggest and oldest living things on the planet. The Giant Sequoia Red Wood trees. This could go on forever. I hope I helped out.
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So they can ski and then get stuck in traffic?
A company can be near the big social media spyware brands? A direct low latency connection to adware and spyware?
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So a company has to stay in a state to support the travel lifestyle of its workers after work?
Why would you write that? It seems like a really silly thing to think.
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So a company has to stay in a state to support the travel lifestyle of its workers after work?
You have two choices. On the one hand, you can do what it takes to buy services (hire peope) at the going rate, which incudes lifestyle. On the other hand, you can try not doing so and see if you are able to buy enough.
So basically, yes. What part of capitalism don't you undestand?
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So a company has to stay in a state to support the travel lifestyle of its workers after work?
Yes.
I briefly lived in a dying industrial town in upstate New York. The job was incredibly interesting. The pay was very good. There were lots of opportunities for career advancement. And I moved away.
When you leave work, you don't want to enter an environment where the local Exxon station sells crack pipes. And decides to lose their Exxon branding instead of no longer selling crack pipes. Where everyone you pass has a giant cloud of doom over them due to the terrible local economy. Where there is on
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
CA has some of the highest state taxes ever.
Until this year those could be written off your fed bill.
Thats why. And why dems are so pissed.
CA is going to see their true costs reflected in many places.
And oh they're pissed the rest of us are not subsidizing them anymore.
Re:CA is not the USA (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, hey, another pack of lies from a hatemonger!
In fact, California is 42nd per capita in amount of money received from the feds per dollar spent in taxes:
http://www.politifact.com/cali... [politifact.com]
Californians in fact receives roughly 22% LESS per capita than the national average.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You didn't even listen to what he said. You just saw the word "tax" and started spewing dogma, like an auto-comment script. He said that state taxes used to be able to be taken off your federal taxes, due to some stupid law. This incentivized high state taxes and no consequences. Now, with the stupid law eliminated, high tax jurisdictions are going to feel the pain of their own taxes instead of passing them off to others.
Besides, it is a standard feature of leftism that those who have the most should
Re: (Score:2)
It wouldn't need to rack up debt if a lot of its citizens' money wasn't stolen by taxation from DC. And more will be stolen with the end of deductions.
Time for #calexit2020. Let's do it!
Re:CA is not the USA (Score:5, Insightful)
3 major things keep companies in California, all related to talent
1) Weather. Let's face it, California weather is hard to beat. Most places you have to worry about running the AC and dehumidifier, or worry about running the heater and paying for heating oil, along with clothing and maintenance costs to deal with the weather. California gets to skip all of that, or have it as an optional thing you just pay for if you want it (mountain cabin, home out in the Inland Empire).
2) Non competes and at will. Non competes are void here, so companies have no real way to chain people to their work if they are good. Employees can walk. It is also at will, which means employers are also not chained to their employees if they suck. Employers can walk. This promotes the greatest mobility of workers and business, and tends to arrive at situations where both sides get what they want.
3) Infrastructure. Specifically the master plan of education of California which leads to the Cal State and UC systems which pump out grads to satisfy the tech industry, as well as the other major industries. This plus the private universities means theirs plenty of good people to pick from.
All the above lead to a demand that makes California expense. On top of this, the housing market is distorted because California citizens voted themselves incredibly low property taxes, which promotes never selling properties. This means for many companies, they get property taxes that can not be found anywhere else, despite the high property values.
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Everything you just stated, except for the HVAC system issues, can be said about Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, etc... So, really, your pitch for CA comes down to, "You don't have to know how to use a thermostat".
Re: (Score:3)
Everything you just stated, except for the HVAC system issues, can be said about Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, etc
Nope.
Silicon Valley formed because of the combination of Stanford, Berkeley and several other UCs, and companies in the 1960s paying for R&D campuses, and more-or-less free in-state tuition ($400/year in the 1970s IIRC). The universities supplied a large number of well-qualified employees, big employers hired them, and some of them formed startups that became other big employers. Once the ball got rolling, it became self-sustaining.
So no, those other states do not have the same environment. One major
Re: (Score:2)
> What does CA have that no other part of the USA has? What keeps the SJW brands management paying so much just to stay in CA?
> No need for your brand to help pay CA tax rates to cover massive illegal immigrant support costs.
Oh I dunno. More liberals, less conservatives. That appeals to a lot of us. Oh, and it's not so damn cold, too.
Re: (Score:3)
What does CA have that no other part of the USA has? What keeps the SJW brands management paying so much just to stay in CA? ...
Is the very fact that parts of CA are so expensive the reason why the SJW brands like CA? ...
Why don't shareholders do the math to show their brand could make more money and pass back larger profits in many other better US states?
First, the weather. And CA does have a good University system.
Second, the decision-makers for these companies have no problem paying 2-3x for living expenses. The board members are local. The VCs are local. Who cares if you overpay for a house when your bank account is well into 8 figures?
Sure employees can't afford to own a house, but who cares when you can just import people who will be happy to live in an overpriced 1-bedroom apartment?
Third, paying extra for salaries tends to be a secondary concern.
Re: (Score:2)
Thats great for the lifestyle of the wealthy workers.
Why are the shareholders and owners of a company subsidizing workers in a state with that tax rate?
Move to a better state with lower taxes. Enjoy the profits and savings.
Re:CA is not the USA (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of the companies I consult for offer multi-thousand-dollar referral fees if I get someone to work there. They're more interested in quality people than the tax rate.
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Thats great for the lifestyle of the wealthy workers.
a.k.a. the workers who bring the most value to the company.
Why are the shareholders and owners of a company subsidizing workers in a state with that tax rate?
Because they understand that without good empoyees, their shares won't do very well.
Move to a better state with lower taxes. Enjoy the profits and savings.
You'll have huge profits with almost no payroll, for maybe 6 months.
Re: (Score:2)
Here here!
Are straight white males welcome? (Score:2)
You mention supposed "open mindedness." Would some one who isn't black or gay welcome? Or does open mindedness have limits?
Re: (Score:2)
I fondly remember California open mindedness. It existed when I was growing up there. Yes, kids, it really did exist!
Re: (Score:2)
Don't take this the wrong way, but you are a piece of shit.
Seriously, kill yourself.
No, if either of you goes to Pennsylvania, someone will do it for you.
Links (Score:4, Informative)
Quote: "In 2013, a black was six times more likely than a non-black to commit murder, and 12 times more likely to murder someone of another race than to be murdered by someone of another race."
Another quote: "If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent."
Do black Americans commit more crime? [channel4.com]
Quote: "Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimization rate was six times higher."
However, that web site is a TV station in Belfast Ireland.
There Are No Successful Black Nations [foreignpolicy.com].
The author of that article, Chigozie Obioma, is a black Nigerian [google.com].
Detroit bullet proof glass [google.com]
Average annual income Haiti [google.com]
Health Information for Travelers to Haiti [cdc.gov]