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Businesses The Almighty Buck Technology

Engineer Develops Sonar Alarm System To Monitor Kids In the Pool (newatlas.com) 230

Posted by BeauHD from the child-in-the-pool dept.
British electrical engineer John Barstead created a sonar alarm system that will warn parents or nearby sunbathers if a small child has accidentally fallen into a pool. The Dolphin Alarm, as it is called, is currently raising production funds on Kickstarter. New Atlas explains how it works: When small children who have no business going into the pool on their own are out playing near it, they wear a special wristband. If they should fall in, the wristband will generate a three-tone sonar signal as soon as it's immersed in the water. That signal will be detected by a hydrophone contained within a receiver unit that floats in the pool. When that happens, the unit will emit a 131-decibel alarm. It will also transmit an alert to an indoor remote unit located up to 150 m away (170 ft), which will likewise sound an alarm of its own. While there are other child-in-the-pool alarms, most of them are wave-activated and have to be shut off when other people are using the pool.
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Engineer Develops Sonar Alarm System To Monitor Kids In the Pool More

Engineer Develops Sonar Alarm System To Monitor Kids In the Pool

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  • Awesome! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Hans Lehmann ( 571625 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @08:33PM (#56403791)
    Now we no longer need to pay any attention to our kids when they're near a swimming pool. We have technology to do it for us!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      Yeah. Put this together with the back seat alarm [slashdot.org] and I won't have to think about my kid ever again.

      • Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Funny)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @09:08PM (#56403937)

        I won't have to think about my kid ever again.

        You still have to wait till they are old enough to microwave their own food.

        Here is a great life hack to avoid killing your kid in a hot car: When you buckle the kid into the car seat, toss your cell phone and wallet onto the floor in front of the seat. When you reach your destination and reach into your pocket to check your Facebook status ... the phone isn't there. Then you remember the kid is asleep in the backseat!

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by PPH ( 736903 )

          toss your cell phone and wallet onto the floor in front of the seat

          My cell phone and wallet are in my holster. I suppose I could give my kid my Glock to play with while I drive.

        • I won't have to think about my kid ever again.

          You still have to wait till they are old enough to microwave their own food.

          Here is a great life hack to avoid killing your kid in a hot car: When you buckle the kid into the car seat, toss your cell phone and wallet onto the floor in front of the seat. When you reach your destination and reach into your pocket to check your Facebook status ... the phone isn't there. Then you remember the kid is asleep in the backseat!

          No. Uber Eats + smart phone.. they only need to be able to read. Microwaves are for "old people."

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Yeah. Put this together with the back seat alarm [slashdot.org] and I won't have to think about my kid ever again.

        Ah. An alarm to keep you from *forgetting* a kid who is *already* in the back seat. In the context of a story about an alarm that tells you when someone gets into something (a pool) that they're not supposed to, I half expected you to be linking to an alarm that warns you when your teenage daughter gets in the back seat of your car with her boyfriend.

    • Now we no longer need to pay any attention to our kids when they're near a swimming pool.

      Do you also think we shouldn't have seat belts, since parents don't need to drive as carefully?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Dutch Gun ( 899105 )

      Anyone can get distracted for just a few minutes, no matter how doting the parents are. That's all it takes for tragedy to occur. Many years ago, my young cousin drowned in my aunt and uncle's pool. She simply wandered off and fell in. That's what toddlers do, after all. I'm sure they would have given anything for a device like this to warn them.

      I hope this works. It's a simple idea that could potentially save some heartbreak like our family had to go through.

      • I'm sure they would have given anything for a device like this to warn them.

        So they were aware of the risk? Damn.

    • People feel fine using that same argument while riding in their Tesla.

    • /sarcasm /cynical Technology is great! Just put an ankle ball-and-chain on them -- they can't fall in if they can't get close to the pool !

      /joke off

    • It will be even more funz when the inventor gets sued into the dirt the first time a child drowns with the system in place.

      I hope he has taken a LOT of legal advice over possible legal exposure on such a device.....

    • I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords!

  • Why have a wristband at all (Score:4, Insightful)

    by technosaurus ( 1704630 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @08:36PM (#56403799)
    Just use the standard sonar signature of the pool and alarm if it changes.

    • other swimmers?

      • That is what openCV is for. Still even having to turn it off is not that big a deal especially if you are turning of the pump to prevent little ones from getting stuck in the drain. ... Much better than always having to remember to keep the wristband on and hope it isnt hackable so the people on Megans list can track your kids... but more likely it runs on a hackable remote service that shuts down or requires an expensive upgrade to maintain service after a year or so. I am fine with IoT so long as the I

      • other swimmers?

        One would think “other swimmers” in a home swimming pool would be aware of any unexpected additional body entering the pool - child, dog, caribou...

    • You should listen to a recording of sound underwater to understand why that doesn't make sense. You're looking for a change in noise in a noisy environment that is absolutely dominated by constantly changing noise. Birds in the pool, branches falling it, rain, thunder storms, people running near not even in the pool, all of these are picked up sonically underwater.

      It is much easier finding a known pattern than characteristing a changing one.

  • What if they aren't wearing the wristband? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mveloso ( 325617 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @08:40PM (#56403817)

    The wristband is the flaw. A kid who isn't supposed to go into the pool isn't going to wear their special wristband, especially if it isn't their pool.

    • Easier cheaper solution; just use one of those really loud personal alarms and replace the pull out switch with a water sensor... and watefproof it. It works in your pool or your neighbors and lakes, oceans or rivers too.

    • A kid who isn't supposed to go into the pool isn't going to wear their special wristband

      A kid who knows they aren't supposed to go in the pool and clever enough to not wear the wristband is also mature enough to have learnt how to swim and there is a different solution to that problem.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I guess it's only for protecting your own kids.

      They mention other alarms that sense waves. Okay, so this thing is designed for the case where you want some people to be using the pool, but not the kids. In that case, it's hard to see how else it could work. If you require authorised users to wear the bands then you need some way of detecting unauthorised users reliably, which is non trivial to say the least.

      This sounds like a good compromise. Use whatever protection you normal do when the pool is not in use

    • My toddlers were especially adept at taking off articles of clothing that they didn't want to wear ... which was pretty much everything for a while. But you can't make the wristband too difficult to remove, because "bath time" is a nightly activity to remove a layer of cruft from the dirty little monkeys. This system won't work because the inconvenience outweighs the potential benefit ... by a lot.

  • Yeah - genius who's NEVER worked with kids... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by frank_adrian314159 ( 469671 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @08:45PM (#56403841) Homepage

    If it depends on the kid wearing a "water activated" wristband of some sort, it's a bit of a non-starter. The kid learns first that if he drags his arm through the water, big excitement ensues. Next he learns that if he takes the wristband off and throws it in the pool, even greater amusement ensues. Finally, the parents get rid of the thing out of irritation.

    • if I were a betting man it would be transmitting the signal thru the water, hence the 'sonar' part of it, therefore, little billy playing around with the sprinkler connected to the house wouldn't set it off. If you were draining the pool and he decided to wet the wristband using the drain hose would though as the circuit would be compete then.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      By that logic toddlers would be constantly setting off fire alarms, throwing your phone in the toilet, knocking the TV over, microwaving spoons...

      What your example fails to mention is that shortly after the big excitement, there is the big sulk on the naughty step. If you kid is constantly doing stuff like that then you have bigger problems anyway.

  • If the kid isn't wearing the associated wristband, and doesn't take it off, then the alarm sounds when it goes in the pool.

    The neighbour kid, or your friends kids, or your own kids that aren't happy to wear a massive wristband around 24/7 can drown all they like.

    The hundreds of existing wave based devices are bad because they will go off if other people are using the pool... other people that will watch a toddler fall into the pool and drown I guess.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

      The problem with the wave-based solutions is that someone has to turn it back on after the last adult is out of the pool. If you weren't a sarcasm-driven, drooling moron, you'd have thought of that before posting your shit.

      • There's plenty of counter-examples to your claim below, e.g. that they can reset after the water stops having waves for a time.

        Any way you cut it this thing is a death trap and deserves sarcasm.

  • This is a joke, right? Please tell me this is a joke. I am rapidly losing faith in humanity.

  • Technology in search of a problem (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    If the problem is unsupervised children falling into a pool, the solution is a fence.

    After several minutes thought I find it rather hard to figure out the market for this product:
    * It requires modification of the pool environment, but is inferior to wave based child detection systems because it also requires,
    * Modification of the child via a large battery powered wrist strap, but is inferior to a leash because they can still fall in pools

    It also looks suspiciously like vapourwear:
    * n

    • I agree, the product is a non starter.

      But a fence?

      I really don't think that's going to stop any determined child.

      I think having one is a good idea. But trusting it to stop a child entering is naive.

  • Wave-activated sounds superior, actually (Score:4, Interesting)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @09:24PM (#56403983)

    I would think a wave-activated device, coupled with a security camera and some sort of mobile or web app, would be great (if I had a pool, which I don’t). It would work for neighborhood kids, which this wouldn’t. And, if I were away from the house, I could still call for emergency responders were it warranted.

    This new “invention” seems like something we could’ve had in the 1960s. The only reason it’s even here is probably the word “KickStarter”. Hey, @whipslash, please consider adding the ability to filter out KickStarter stories, the way we can other subjects.

    • Oh, and 150 meters isn’t remotely close to 170 feet - it’s a hair over 492 feet. 50 meters is about 162 feet... is that what was meant?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      I would think a wave-activated device, coupled with a security camera and some sort of mobile or web app, would be great (if I had a pool, which I don’t). It would work for neighborhood kids, which this wouldn’t. And, if I were away from the house, I could still call for emergency responders were it warranted.

      Even better: Just keep a camera pointed at the pool. Use motion detection to contact you if anyone enters the pool. Combine it with face recognition to determine if the person is authoriz

  • Cheaper Solution (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @09:51PM (#56404059)

    Shock Collars and invisible fencing should protect your children quite nicely. And provide a handy guide for your robotic mower, which totally would never kill people instead of cutting grass. /s

  • They have it backwards. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by trogdor_linux ( 5052565 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @09:58PM (#56404081)
    A much better idea would be a to have adults wear the sonar device to act as an inhibit for a wave based alarm sensor.

  • Supervision is the first line of defense followed very closely by 4 sided barriers.
    Our state has very strict mandatory fencing laws enforced by inspection and they work.

    A device that needs wrist bands and batteries and detectors in a harsh pool environment. No thanks, wouldn't want that liability as a manufacturer.

  • Foolproof! (Score:5, Informative)

    by viperidaenz ( 2515578 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @10:20PM (#56404143)

    Unless the wrist band falls off
    or It's battery goes flat
    or it gets damaged
    or someone forgets to put it on
    or it gets dirty and the ultrasonic transducer doesn't make a sound
    or it gets dirty and the water detector doesn't trigger
    or the detection microphone is fouled
    or the floating detectors battery goes flat

    There is already a solution for this problem. You can buy a system that detects disturbances in the water. They automatically arm themselves when the water is calm, you temporarily disarm it when you use the pool and it rearms automatically then you stop disturbing the water.
    When something disturbs the water, like a child falling in, an alarm is triggered.

    They're designed by real engineers to solve this specific problem as an alternative for pool fencing where it's legal or in addition to it as extra protection.
    They're designed to protect all kids, not just the ones you remembered to attach a wristband to.

    I fail to see a market for this and I hope no one gets lulled into a false sense of security by it.

    • Or an asteroid hits the pool seconds before the kid is about to all into it.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Oh good, another person who thinks that nothing should be implemented unless it's 100% foolproof.

      I hope you don't do .... errr.... anything. God knows just looking at this message is likely to distract and kill someone so this whole Slashdot thing really is a non-starter as well.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      You can think of a thousand ways for any safety technology to fail, but that doesn't mean they are worthless. A car airbag might fail to go off, or go off at random, but overall they are a huge net benefit.

      Some of your fears are unfounded, e.g. the ultrasonic transducer or microphone getting fouled up. Both of those things will be inside the wristband/floating detector and work through the waterproof housing. I'd be more concerned about the radio link failing, but again people rely on baby monitors all the

  • Website has basic errors (Score:4, Insightful)

    by viperidaenz ( 2515578 ) on Sunday April 08, 2018 @10:31PM (#56404163)

    It really inspires confidence in a safety product when the website describing its operation says "When the wrist band makes contact with water the transmitter sends an acoustic signal to the pool alarm which emits a loud penetrating"

    Penetrating what? Tentacle to rescue your drowning child?

    It's not even an HTML rendering issue, it's an image.

    They also feel the need to state "WRISTBAND TRANSMITTER - The Wristband is worn on the wrist" Where else do you wear a wristband?

  • When small children who have no business going into the pool

    Small children should not be allowed to do their business in the pool. But that's reality, which is why I don't go into public pools.

  • They forgot one thing to compare with the other products
    Complies with pool alarm safety standards:
    Aquaguard: Yes
    Poolguard: Yes
    Safety Turtle: Not sure
    Pool Sonix: Not sure
    Dolphin Alarm: No

  • There have been products that detect anything falling into the water for years; they're basically floating tilt-sensors that respond to waves and sound an alarm. No wristband needed.

  • Maybe have an alarm system that activates every time it detects anyone in the pool. Have the system make a voice announcement (like "marco") 10s before sounding the 131 whatever dBA alarm. During the 10s anyone can disable it by speaking out loud some kind of trigger word - like "polo".

    Have it reset itself and require the trigger word to be spoken again every 15 minutes or so, or maybe if it detects no-one in the pool. Bonus points if it triggers the alarm immediately for any other keyword like "help" or

  • This product http://safetyturtle.com/ [safetyturtle.com] claims to have been around since the late 90s and I am sure there are other similar wristband type products that detect pool ingress.

  • I like technological fixes as much as the next Slashdot reader, but I think this particular problem is a tricky one to solve with 100% reliability... and of course anything with "only" 99.9% reliability is going to get sued into the ground after the first failure, regardless of whether the failure was actually due to human error or not..

    My recommendation (either instead of installing a gadget or perhaps in addition to it) would be to make sure any kid who is big enough to potentially get to the pool has als

  • Honestly, I'm less than impressed by a flawed design that require the kid to wear something.

    I'm surprised nobody made some sort of sensor (heat, light curtain, motion detection, sound recognition etc.) that will have a near perfect efficiency (or anything better than a fence around the pool). And why not coupling this to an emergency drain connected to the aqueduct to empty the pool in case the alarm isn't aknowledged in like 30 sec (to give the time in case of a false alarm in the middle of the night).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mark-t ( 151149 )
      An "emergency drain", hmm??? And seriously, just how fast do you imagine that drain would be able to drain the water out?

      And compare that number, if you will, to the shockingly brief amount of time that it takes for someone to drown.

      What magic technology are you imagining that could drain the pool fast enough that it would even have the smallest chance of stopping drowning?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Eloking ( 877834 )

        Well, the speed of the water depend of the volume of water that can pass throught the drain. So, yeah the idea I had was a few dozen drain that cover roughly the half of the spool floor area and sides.

        Another alternative could be an elevator floor that would work even better : https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

        All are expensive options of course.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mark-t ( 151149 )

          Regardless of how many drains you had in the pool, they would be bottlenecked by the pipe that all the water would eventually have to fit into.

          An elevator pool floor is a good idea, however. I had never seen that before, and although it seems its intended use was for ergonomics, I can see its applications for safety as well.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Eloking ( 877834 )

            Of course there would be a bottleneck, but could water flow faster there?

            As for elevating floor, I don't think the one in the video are strong enough to lift one person though, but it's a matter fitting stronger valve.

  • Does it come with a roll of bubble wrap and a crash helmet too?

    Health and safety gone mad! [chrismadden.co.uk]
    • Though i will add, in all seriousness, that this can and probably will be a very useful thing for people outside the recommended age bracket, who may have mental deficiencies. I remember as a 10-year-old kid, in my local pool, finding an autistic kid in the bottom of the pool, who had a fit and half-drowned. He was only discovered when i tripped over him leaving the pool. Saved his life though.

      Maybe something similar, but with a pressure sensitive sensor, could be more useful

  • I recommend swimming lessons. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Monday April 09, 2018 @04:31AM (#56404959)

    And bathing together with them until they can swim.

    Sometimes tech solves problems that don't exist. At least not for people with common sense.

  • Existing products do much better (Score:3, Interesting)

    by heldal ( 2015350 ) on Monday April 09, 2018 @05:48AM (#56405083)

    Interesting idea, but pool guarding systems based only on video is pretty common. Like PoolView [poolview.co.uk], SwimEye [swimeye.com], AngelEye [angeleye.it] among others. It has existed for many years. As a matter of fact, my brother used to code for one of these systems. It's all underwater video monitoring with pattern detection and works fairly well.

    The only scenario where I could see this sonar-version would be practical is in Hotel resorts or other closed areas where visiting kids are given this wristband and then left to roam the premises unattended. Going for private households might be the angle required for Kickstarter, but all in all this seems like a product more suited for the business market, IMHO.

  • ...try to sell the wristband as a tsunami warning system.

  • Adult supervision is the top priority, but given that inattention happens, a couple comments on achieving decent pool safety.

    For toddlers too little to understand rules, you need properly functioning fences and self-closing gates. Don't let anyone bring a toddler inside the gate unless you have reason to believe they (the adult) are capable of proper supervisory action.
    For older kids, idiots will die. For your own kids, get them swimming lessons, and even more important teach them that they are never ev

  • While there are other child-in-the-pool alarms, most of them are wave-activated and have to be shut off when other people are using the pool.

    This is better.... the kid doesn't have to wear a special watch that could accidentally be lost, OR the kid could take it off, or the parent forgets to attach it, OR there are not enough watches available for the number of kids.

    My suggestion:

    (1) Use the simple wave-activated alarm devices

    (2) Put a good fence around your pool with gated access and latches on out

  • When small children who have no business going into the pool on their own are out playing near it, they wear a special wristband.

    This idea is already useless. I'm trying to think of a person who is so terribly irresponsible as to let a small child play out near a pool alone, yet responsible enough to install this piece of equipment and remember to put on the wristband every single time the kid goes out to play alone near a pool.

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