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Youtube Medicine The Internet

YouTube Is Removing Some Nootropics Channels (vice.com) 243

According to Wikipedia, nootropics are drugs, supplements, and other substances that improve cognitive function, particularly executive functions, memory, creativity, or motivation, in healthy individuals. Many of them are not regulated by the Food and Drug Administration, and some have reported addiction and harm, as well as uncomfortable side effects. These concerns may be behind YouTube's recent decision to delete at least three nootropics channels over the past three days. Motherboard reports: The nootropics YouTubers don't know why YouTube penalized them. YouTube's community guidelines prohibit harmful or dangerous content, including "hard drug use," which seems like the most likely reason. [Ryan Michael Ballow, a YouTuber whose channel "Cortex Labs Nootropics" was deleted] believes it's either "pharmaceutical industry influence" or some other elements within YouTube's leadership decided to target nootropics specifically. "It's all extremely fishy, and demonstrates a continued censorship trend with YouTube," he said in an email. [Jonathan Roseland, another YouTube that recently had their channel "Limitless Mindset" deleted] guessed his channel got flagged because he made videos about kratom, an opioid-like substance that has been linked to deaths and is coming under increased government regulation. Other kratom videos have apparently been removed. But Ballow said he's never posted a video about kratom, and a search for "kratom" on YouTube pulls up countless results, including reviews. Similarly, searching for nootropics, magnesium, aniracetam, oxiracetam, and Modafinil showed no shortage of videos, including reviews.

It's hard to know why the channels were removed since YouTube declined to clarify specifics with the creators and did not respond to a request for comment. YouTube allows creators to appeal enforcement decisions, but Ballow's appeal was rejected. The rejection notice did not clearly state which guidelines were violated, but it pointed to another potential violation. YouTube "included a paragraph that states that if the sole purpose of your YouTube videos is to drive people off of the platform, said videos break the rules," Ballow said. He interpreted this to mean the fact that his videos directed viewers to other websites to buy products.

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YouTube Is Removing Some Nootropics Channels

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  • by mrbester ( 200927 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @05:48AM (#56535053) Homepage

    YouTube removes videos without an explanation aside from an implied "because fuck you, that's why". News at 11.

    YouTube rejects the appeal for reason given above. News is still at 11.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:43AM (#56535169) Homepage Journal

      We can probably guess why the channel was removed. Some of the videos seemed to be making medical claims about the drugs, and the descriptions had links where you could buy them... So basically a bunch of infomercials making claims not backed up by medical science.

      • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @08:21AM (#56535453) Journal
        Google is free to do what they want, but their censorship policies suck. At least they should be able to give a clear reason when they ban something. Nothing much was lost with these videos of course, the only reason to defend them is on principle (not because you like what is in them).
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I agree, they should be much more transparent about the reasons for bans.

      • There are plenty of videos on youtube about psychics, ghosts, and ufo's, making claims not backed up by ANY kind of science. Youtube didn't remove those.
        • Unfortunately...
        • by wbr1 ( 2538558 )
          I think youtubes capriciousness and lack of transparency suck. But, there is a difference in watching some flat earth videos or believing in aliens vs promoting taking a drug into your body.
        • There are plenty of videos on youtube about psychics, ghosts, and ufo's, making claims not backed up by ANY kind of science. Youtube didn't remove those.

          Those kinds of claims do not have the record of death and destruction that making (absurd) medical claims has. There might be some deaths that can be attributable to psychics (not counting psychic medicine), but...lots and lots of people have died because of snake oil peddling and quackery, sometimes quite horribly [orau.org]. (Link deals with Radithor, which was a patent medicine that was literally and openly radium-laced water, and the fate of a sports celebrity spokesperson had a three-bottle-a-day habit...)

      • We can probably guess why the channel was removed. Some of the videos seemed to be making medical claims about the drugs, and the descriptions had links where you could buy them...

        It might also have something to do with what happened to Google back in 2011 , where they settled a case with the US Department of Justice [justice.gov] regarding advertisements for rogue online pharmacies, for $500m.

        Followed by a shareholder lawsuit regarding the same issue, which they settled for something like $250m.

    • by davecb ( 6526 ) <davecb@spamcop.net> on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @07:41AM (#56535305) Homepage Journal
      The owners think of them as private spaces, but sell them to the public as public spaces. At some point they become de-facto monopolies or oligopolies (which see), and we end up having to create trust-busters, just like after the previous great depression.
      • by DogDude ( 805747 )
        At some point they become de-facto monopolies or oligopolies

        That doesn't apply to this situation. Literally anybody on the world can post videos on the Internet. Actually, I think that people NOT on the world can also post videos to the Internet (ISS).
        • by davecb ( 6526 )
          It's the number of sites they can usefully post to that are limited, not the number of people who are able to post to them.
          • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

            It's the number of sites they can usefully post to that are limited, not the number of people who are able to post to them.

            There are plenty of sites they can post to. They can even decide to put them online and *gasp* host the videos themselves!

            Granted, the latter requires spending real money to buy service, but since these guys probably have a website anyways. Of course, I suppose the real danger is if they are promoting something with medical claims and the FDA goes after them..

            • by davecb ( 6526 )
              That's closer to the mode of a boutique store on the "high street", rather than a shopping mall. There is very little risk there, as people will go there purely on shopping expeditions, rather than hanging out at the mall the way my parents used to hang out on the actual grassy mall with the row of trees and stuff in Chatham. (Shopping malls are deliberately named after the sheltered promenades of years past, to sound inviting. Part of the problem!)
            • The value youtube provides isn't just hosting - it's promotion too. If you want your video to attract a lot of views, you put it on youtube. Where people browsing or searching may easily find it.

      • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        They are like a club with an open mic. They might allow most people but can certainly ban anyone they want to as well.

        The "public space" argument is mostly coming from the freeze peach crowd, but they have little credibility. Guys like Carl Benjamin, aka Sargon, complain about being silenced while raking in nearly $8000/month from Patreon and having nearly 800,000 subscribers on YouTube alone. Sure, he was banned from Twitter, but simply moved to Gab and is now more popular then ever.

        So given that he clearl

        • by davecb ( 6526 )
          There are nutcases that claim that web sites and malls are public space, but that's not the case. The problem is that they are in fact private, and are legally treated as private, while at the same time being the only places where random people can congregate. Non-random people can congregate here (;-)) but that group doesn't include my late mother's friends.
    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      YouTube rejects the appeal for reason given above. News is still at 11.

      So YouTube is known for this, BUT this again raises the question: How can we enable small publishers to produce and make available for watching: video for people to see on the internet, and connect with audiences, in a manner in which the videos cannot be taken down or censored by a third party?

      Publishing to Youtube used to be the answer, but now Youtube is increasingly unreasonable and taking down more and more less-objectionab

    • News has been deeded in violation of the TOS and will not be viewed at 11 or at any other time!

  • by Curunir_wolf ( 588405 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:04AM (#56535073) Homepage Journal

    This is why ad-supported media can never address the harms caused by the pharmaceutical industry and the very powerful pharmaceutical lobby in the US. All those advertising dollars influence the stories covered, the news promoted, and the videos allowed to be distributed on platforms.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's easy to cry "Muh corporations!"

      I have a better explanation. Nutropics is a dangerous quack scam patterned after similar quack scams that have plagued the public since recorded history.

      • Yet, they allow some quack scams to continue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

      • It's easy to cry "Muh corporations!"

        I have a better explanation. Nutropics is a dangerous quack scam patterned after similar quack scams that have plagued the public since recorded history.

        But they aren't banning all the videos, only some. Why? Well, maybe because some pharmaceutical companies would like to get in on the scam with their patents [google.com] for them.

        • It's easy to cry "Muh corporations!"

          I have a better explanation. Nutropics is a dangerous quack scam patterned after similar quack scams that have plagued the public since recorded history.

          But they aren't banning all the videos, only some. Why? Well, maybe because some pharmaceutical companies would like to get in on the scam with their patents [google.com] for them.

          Actually, YouTube only taking down a random portion of the offending channels is normal. There is no need for conspiracy theories; normal incompetence explains it just fine.

          Seriously, it'll be news when YouTube manages to take down the worst offenders and only them, because it will mean that they've finally gotten their bots properly trained and monitored.

      • Nutropics is a dangerous quack scam

        But if you drink my New Snake Oil, you'll be immune from all of those scams!

        And look -- I'm even holding a festival! [snakeoilfestival.com]

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Most of them are scams. A few do actually work though (Adderall being a popular choice), but they are all prescription only and have quite a few side effects.

  • Private company (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    It can decide who it wants on its platform.

    They don't owe you anything.

    • by Bing Tsher E ( 943915 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:28AM (#56535123) Journal

      Definitely. And we can discuss their practices, loudly, wherever we wish.

      • by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:50AM (#56535187) Homepage Journal
        You should discuss why all these people rely on a service for income without any contractual guarantee.
        • by wbr1 ( 2538558 )
          Something similar can be said about any non-union employee working in an at-will employment state. No contractual guarantee....
        • You should discuss why all these people rely on a service for income without any contractual guarantee.

          The vast majority of people in any job are "at will" employees which means they have no contractual guarantee of continued employment. Ever give a tip to the waitstaff at a restaurant? There is no contractual guarantee there. Why should people using YouTube have guarantees? They knew what the deal was when they signed up. If the deal changes they can't pretend that they didn't know that was a possibility.

  • Why is this a story? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Maybe because YouTube has too much power, and not enough competition?

  • Maybe (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @07:22AM (#56535241)

    They were giving out medical advice without a license?

  • by rainer_d ( 115765 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @07:30AM (#56535279) Homepage

    Just buy a domain (which I presume most of these people already have) and publish the videos there.

    Those who are interested in that topic will certainly find them. Monetarization will be more difficult, but I'm sure the channels were made solely in the interest of science anyway. So nothing changed.

  • There's tremendous liability here. Telling people to try drug X without a medical license and the drug not coming through a properly regulated distribution channel likely leads viewers to buy it on the internet. No telling whether the drug contains what it says, perhaps just enough fentanyl to kill a rhinoceros. The danger is more in how the viewer might obtain the drug rather than the danger of the drug or advice itself. At least that's my take.
    • > likely leads viewers to buy it on the internet.

      Not just "the internet", but the videos had links to the publishers site, and instructed viewers to buy there. So plain old illegal drug advertising.

      The person on YouTube may have been an advertising affiliate for the site, or may have owned it outright. I don't see much difference.

    • Officially supporting cognitive enhancement is one of my smaller policy goals.

      Right now, "nootropics" businesses slap the name on any unregulated drug they can manage. That includes extremely-addictive b-GABA receptor agonists like Phenibut. Bromantane might be fantastic; it also might increase risk of alzheimers. There's a drug from the 60s that was studied heavily by pharmaceutical researchers and determined to have pretty much no toxicity, no addictive nature, and a significant hypermnesic effect:

      • Phenibut is not nearly as addictive as you describe and it works far more often than once a month. The tolerance to it builds up very quickly, though.

        • It's been described to me as that a 250mg dose before bed will make you sleep like nothing else; and it'll work again 20-30 days later. You can do it twice in a row by taking 500mg the second time. People seem to get up to 5g/day to maintain the effects after only a few weeks of usage.

          The withdrawal has been invariably described as a terrifying experience of feeling horrible and contemplating suicide.

          A few people have been put on baclofen for medical detox. This hasn't happened very often, as you can

          • Phenibut is one of the mildest and safest tranquiliizers out there and the withdrawal is only possible when abusing the stuff (like taking several grams a day for a month or so), but that will happen with any tranquilizer abuse. It creates no craving since it is not addictive, but it is chemically close to a neurotransmitter and if taken for too long, the body will stop producing its own, hence withdrawal.

            Personally, I don't take it for more than two days in a row simply because there is no need, but I took

            • Interesting. I got much different stories when I asked in nootropics forum, seeking a sleep aid.
              • People are different and people can have idiosyncratic reactions to some medicine. Also interactions might cause problems - phenibut shall not be mixed with alcohol, barbiturates or benzodiazepines, it can lead to all kinds of problems. I don't drink, maybe that's the reason the stuff works so well for me.

                It is also not quite a sleeping aid, it relaxes, removes anxiety and makes sleep more effective. This is why I normally take it when I know that my sleep is going to be short - the next day I feel like I'

    • by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @08:43AM (#56535529) Homepage Journal

      There's tremendous liability here. Telling people to try drug X without a medical license [...]

      This is argument by misdirection.

      1) Google should bear no liability for what it's users say, and

      2) Google should not be making legal decisions.

      Once you go down the path of "it's the carriers' responsibility", it's really very easy to suppress all kinds of speech. Make one flashy arrest very public, and watch how the "chilling effect" causes all the carriers to clamp down on everything even remotely related, out of fear.

      It's very, *very* clear that the current situation is untenable and unfair to the population.

      The situation is now so bad that there is a grassroots movement calling for the breakup of the big players (google, facebook, twitter, and so on) on monopoly/antitrust grounds.

      Google could be smart, recognize the growing trend, and go back to a "public commons" mode before that happens.

      Or, they could continue to try to adjust public thought, try to "bring home" the election for their preferred candidates, and then get chopped up like so much cordwood.

      (OTOH, that would probably be good for the users. Google has turned decidedly evil over the past few years, and "not being evil" is a competitive advantage that the smaller pieces could use to compete against each other.)

  • You don't know what you had until it's gone. YouTube is now censoring their users' content at an alarming rate. People who just swear or even talk about sex jokingly see their channels demonetized at the least and deleted at worst. Free speech on the YouTube is limited now as they play thought police, judge, and executioner.
    • what the first amendment says

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

      Since when is YouTube the same as congress?

      • Honest Questions:

        1. Since Businesses get their license from the Government, then why are Businesses allowed to limit who they serve?

        2. Is is legal for a business to exclude a certain group of people based upon:

        * Gender
        * Race
        * Religion
        * Clothing
        * Speech

        Why is the last one (speech) OK for a business like YouTube to remove but not the others?

        3. Are "Private Clubs For Men" a business? Is excluding 50% of the population legal?

        I guess I've never understand why Free Speech is protected by the government but not b

    • by Sloppy ( 14984 )

      see their channels demonetized

      Oh noo! Boohooo!! Youtube is becoming more like NBC and HBO, who also didn't give me an automatic yes to my "let me be the executive producer of a new tv show" idea that I pitched them.

      Here, I found a magic brain pill video that youtube hasn't "censored" yet. So don't worry, nootropics is still cool [youtube.com] on youtube.

  • All this bullshit YouTube is doing to building towards their demise. If no competitor comes in then we are looking at full scale unions between YouTube's. This is peoples jobs and when YouTube can take away your years of hard work with a click and never offer an explanation they have way too much power. Much much more money flies though YouTube than Uber and the state of California was debating considering Uber drivers employees. It's only a matter of time before YouTube realizes by taking full control of t
    • All this bullshit YouTube is doing to building towards their demise.

      It certainly opens a door to competition.

      While Youtube as a free service has every right to decide what they allow or don't allow, every person kicked off for whatever reason, every channel punished by demonetization becomes a potential customer of another or new service.

      Eventually Youtube loses it's flagship status.

  • I have to assume the people who are vetting all these YouTube channels must be taking some of these nootropic supplements themselves. Who could stand doing that job otherwise?
  • I don't quite understand why no one in the open source world has built a distributed youtube already.
    We have the perfect peer to peer technology to distribute the videos.
    Youtube comments is a feature no one really wants.
    The indexing bits looks a bit more complicated, but that is what DHTs are for.
    Recommendation, subscription can be built as an overlay service.

    I am surprised we haven't seen that happen already.

    • by Greyfox ( 87712 )
      Oh sure, you could build video hosting on tor or something. Set it up kind of like the hadoop file system, so chunks of video are stored redundantly in different places. Maybe even set up some sort of encryption so that it's difficult or impossible to discover what's stored on any individual system Generating a one time pad and storing it out on the network along with the video it's encrypted with might work. Maybe even set up a cryptographic system that could be used to identify users based on a public key
  • by BlueCoder ( 223005 ) on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @09:10AM (#56535675)

    More than likely we need to move over to a torrent style video system and nas boxes with quick erase functions in case of raids. We will undoubtedly be labeled terrorists for wanting to watch non approved content.

    I'm still waiting for the next gen torrents with anonymous cloud storage and with soloman tech and xor pieces such there is no content unless you have all the pieces. And pieces are shared among torrents of different content. It's all split across opaque cloud storage. (Imagine you xor a video of barney the dinosaur with a video on hacking an xbox.) In exchange for you donating storage and bandwidth you get to upvote content.

    • by DogDude ( 805747 )
      More than likely we need to move over to a torrent style video system and nas boxes with quick erase functions in case of raids.

      Are you wanting to host child porn on Youtube?
  • There is a narcotic drug that has been out there awhile and it is plaguing our society, often used most by STEM types, and it causes; tremors, anxiety, irritability, sleep deprivation, over active bladder and racing thoughts among other things. It is so addictive that many cannot function without it and withdrawal symptoms are severe. We need to do something about trimethylxanthine [nih.gov] before it is too late! Someone please think of the children!

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