H-1B Visa Alternative 'OPT' Grew 400 Percent In Eight Years, Report Finds 185
theodp writes: Almost 1.5 million foreign students have been allowed to stay and work in the U.S. after graduation as part of the Optional Practical Training (OPT) program, which is now larger than the controversial H-1B program (Warning: source may be paywalled; alternative source). According to new Pew Research analysis of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request, the number of students authorized to work under OPT has grown 400% since the federal government in 2008 increased the amount of time graduates with science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) degrees could remain in the United States and work. More than half of those working under OPT from 2004 to 2016 were in STEM fields, Pew found, and as a result, were eligible for the so-called STEM extension.
The OPT program added a 17-month STEM extension in 2008, shortly after Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates suggested it in testimony to Congress after complaining that the cap for the H-1B program had caused a serious disruption in the flow of talented STEM graduates to U.S. companies. In 2016, another 12-month extension was added after a Federal judge threatened to torpedo the STEM extension program, saying it "appears to have been adopted directly from the unanimous suggestions by Microsoft and similar industry groups." In its Top Ten Tech Issues for 2018, Microsoft expressed "concern that in 2018 the White House will announce a rollback of the extended period of Optional Practical Training for STEM graduates." Pew also took note of allegations that "visa mills" have sprung up in response to demand driven by the OPT program.
The OPT program added a 17-month STEM extension in 2008, shortly after Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates suggested it in testimony to Congress after complaining that the cap for the H-1B program had caused a serious disruption in the flow of talented STEM graduates to U.S. companies. In 2016, another 12-month extension was added after a Federal judge threatened to torpedo the STEM extension program, saying it "appears to have been adopted directly from the unanimous suggestions by Microsoft and similar industry groups." In its Top Ten Tech Issues for 2018, Microsoft expressed "concern that in 2018 the White House will announce a rollback of the extended period of Optional Practical Training for STEM graduates." Pew also took note of allegations that "visa mills" have sprung up in response to demand driven by the OPT program.
I've been wondering why it is (Score:5, Insightful)
Thing is, I don't see anything changing. Folks voted for Trump because he said he'd stop all this crap, and now he supports TPP, DACA, and literally told his supporters he wanted workers to come in and do your jobs [theindychannel.com]. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders, the one politician who could have put the brakes on this crap, couldn't even get enough support to overcome a little back stabbing from his party (which let's remember Trump easily did).
What we need is folks to stop giving a crap about pointless shit (Guns, Abortion, Gay Marriage, you know, wedge issues) and pay attention to the economy. But good luck with that.
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So you oppose standing armies, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
As it stands you're weapons are pointless against the US Military. Even if we removed _all_ restrictions and let you have rocket launchers, grenades and fully automatic rifles you'd run out of supplies and your lack of military discipline, training and supply lines means you'd be gunned down. A few like you might live up in the wood and occasionally come done and blow up a school bus like they do in Afghanistan. But you'd never kill anyone who really mattered.
The above sounds harsh because, well, it's the truth, and the truth is bloody fucking _harsh_. If you want to prevent oppression though the good news is it's not hard. Fight bigotry in all forms. It's the #1 tool of oppressors to divide the working class. Make sure _everyone_ is taken care of. Food, Shelter, Healthcare and education. The #2 tool of oppressors is scarcity. It keeps us at each other's throats.
But please, abandon this notion of fighting back with violence. It doesn't work. Best case you get to change out the oppressors. Worst case you become a terrorist.
Re: So you oppose standing armies, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
You should definitely tell those armed civilians in Afghanistan - who have fought the US military to a standstill for a decade - that they have absolutely no chance against the US military.
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You should definitely tell those armed civilians in Afghanistan - who have fought the US military to a standstill for a decade - that they have absolutely no chance against the US military.
They don't. But they for the past decade they have been playing against what only can be defined as a "trickle oppression". The USA hasn't demonstrated it's military might since the Vietnam war and even that effort paled in comparison to WW2.
Make no mistake, those civilians in Afghanistan have zero chance against the US military. However the US military hasn't really put it's heart into it either.
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. The USA hasn't demonstrated it's military might since the Vietnam war and even that effort paled in comparison to WW2.
You mean, the US has not demonstrated some alleged, potential might that it once had a lifetime ago. What makes you think that can change?
At the small scale, the US in Iraq was objectively the deadliest fighting force ever seen. Clearing houses, where the defender should have a massive advantage, casualties went 10:1 the other way. When it comes to squad-level action, there are none better.
But that's not the might of a nation. Our Navy can't even steer around civilian ships safely, and it's clear that's
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potential might
If you think it is only potential then you're not at all paying attention.
What makes you think that can change?
Willpower. The USA is only showing the might that it wants to all the while showing restraint knowing full well that international opinion is actually still a valuable currency.
Our Navy can't even steer around civilian ships safely
Taking a couple of isolated incidents shows nothing about might. In fact a lack of display of might breeds exactly the kind of complacency that allows a few ships to crash into each other. And in the end, as long as the missles fly, no one will care if a ship o
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errr.. Lundgren wtf spell chequer!
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Taking a couple of isolated incidents shows nothing about might.
They aren't a couple of isolated incidents - they are a pattern across the navy. Read the incident reports and court martial summaries (what's public) and it's clear, from patrol boats that surrender because the ship is in too poor shape to fight, to DDGs where a dozen officers each should have sounded an alarm, and none of the did. 20 hour shifts, no training on navigation basics, faulty radar (or mis-configured). These are cultural (and budget) issues.
Also, you should look at the two civil wars we've ha
Are we living in the same dimension? (Score:2)
They're not winning by any measure. They playing right into our hands. Not that they can do a damn thing about
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You should definitely tell those armed civilians in Afghanistan - who have fought the US military to a standstill for a decade - that they have absolutely no chance against the US military.
You should take that attitude to Ireland... Who for 300 years fought for independence from England... only to be granted it by a vote.
Or to Tibet. Or South Ossetia. See how that's working out for them.
Afghanistan and Iraq were successful because the NATO nations refuse to commit to a total war (and there are good reasons for that). In fact Afghanistan's resistance only became successful because GWB moved to Iraq and forgot about Afghanistan.
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It's amazing what people will endure to stay free.
Sadly it's also amazing what people will endure to avoid having to fight to stay free.
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There are some more reasons for that than "they had weapons".
You seriously think that nobody would be willing to sell arms into the USA to keep insurgency going? We, the USA, sell arms into every other country for the same purpose, what causes you to imagine that nobody would do it here?
US citizens accepting their lifestyle? Keep dreaming.
You seriously imagine that humans in the US are inferior to those in Afghanistan? Because humans are humans. The great depression proved that Americans could live in the mud. They can do it again.
Re:So you oppose standing armies, right? (Score:4, Insightful)
because that was a big part of why the founding fathers wanted everybody armed.
This is way off topic but I keep seeing people spouting off about gun ownership opinions of the founding fathers. The founding fathers agreed on very little. Yes, many of them did fear having a standing army & believed in a "well-regulated militia". Everyone armed? Hardly. Firearms were expensive. Regular folks did not own them. There was something like 14% gun ownership (googled it) & half of those didn't work. There were not enough firearms to arm the standing militias. They had severe shortages & the state actually regulated firearms. Can you imagine.. they confiscated firearms from folks that couldn't use them.
Our founding fathers likely did not conceptualize "everybody armed".
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because that was a big part of why the founding fathers wanted everybody armed. They wanted the militias to handle defense. Even back then it was understood that untrained citizens couldn't beat trained soldiers. We didn't really 'win' the revolutionary war so much as Britain gave up to go focus on the French (who wanted us split from the Brits to weaken their enemy).
Back then, there wasn't anything like a professional army. Most armies were raised from the peasantry, there were professional soldiers who were mostly mercenaries. Only the officer class was somewhat professional and in Britain, this was more true for the Navy than the Army because the Navy still had a job in peace time.
The main problem the British had was that according to the doctrine of the time, armies in the colonies were raised from the local population.
Standing (professional) armies for entire
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This will help to ensure that any gun nut has to have at least three people who think they are responsible enough to have a gun.
Are you suggesting that a gun nut can't find 3 other gun nuts in the city? This is the single most pointless restriction I have ever heard of. Most {insert any topic here} nut put themselves in an echo chamber of like minded nuts, surrounded by nuts of the same kind. If all you need to perpetuate nuttiness is for a nut to know a few other nuts then all you have made is pointless paperwork.
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No, it's clear you'll take any possible excuse to take away other people's guns. No need to look further into your motivations.
Every freedom has a cost. Freedom is worth it.
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https://www.worldatlas.com/art... [worldatlas.com] https://qz.com/437015/mapped-t... [qz.com]
In order of states with most gun ownership: Wyoming, 40th most violent (admittedly, not bad but by your reasoning should be 50). Montana, 26th most violent. Alaska, MOST VIOLENT (are they giving these people bullets?). South Dakota, 19th most violent. Arkansas, 6th most violent. West Virginia, 27th most violent.
Top five states and your theory already falls apart. These are far from the safe
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Bernie was so weak he let Hillary rip him off and then didn't even stick it to her on it.
The system is big and corrupt... whomever you put out there to fix it is going to have balls of fucking steel.
Like or dislike Trump, he at least has that quality.
Bernie doesn't. He got completely cheated by Hillary and didn't do anything about it. He should have ripped her head off for that. But instead he meekly accepted it.
You like Bernie's policies? Fine. But get someone that can actually seal the deal. Bernie is old
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which is why everyone just gets whatever they want from him...
Right? That's why the establishment republicans love him.
Oh wait, they hate him because you're wrong... damn.
Make a new theory.
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Right? That's why the establishment republicans love him.
Oh wait, they hate him because you're wrong... damn.
Make a new theory.
They say they hate him, but they're lying. They lie all the time, we already knew they were liars. And the Republicans fucking adore Trump. They love him all day. Everything he's doing is stuff they would have loved to have done long ago, but couldn't get away with. Trump, however, can get away with anything and his supporters will keep supporting him because he is a cult of personality.
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which is why they're assisting his programs instead of frustrating them...
oh wait, they're frequently frustrating them...
Let us cut to the chase, what evidence would be needed to cause you to concede you were in error here? Just hypothetically.
Because if "nothing" then your position is not based on reality.
Cite something... and then it will be on me to provide it... assuming what you cite is even relevant. :-)
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Let us cut to the chase, what evidence would be needed to cause you to concede you were in error here? Just hypothetically.
Republicans must lead an effort to impeach Trump.
Yep, that's a high bar. But I have high standards, unlike Republicans.
Everything Trump has actually accomplished is something Republicans have been trying to achieve for years [washingtonexaminer.com], or in some cases decades. (Note that several "accomplishments" on that list are not actually accomplishments or even things which have happened; for example "cutting government waste" while he has several cabinet members appearing before congress for frankly outrageous misuse of taxpa
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No, your standard is irrelevant. You don't need to impeach a politician to prove you are against them. Republicans opposed Obama and didn't try to impeach him.
Set a reasonable standard or you're basically conceding that your position is so weak that you have to use an unreasonable standard to protect your position.
There are a huge number of federal offices left unfilled at the moment largely because congress is dragging its feet on confirmations. The republicans have the majority in both houses so that make
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No, your standard is irrelevant. You don't need to impeach a politician to prove you are against them.
They keep saying they're against what he's doing, and what he's doing is illegal so the correct thing to do is impeach him, but they're not doing that. QED, they're not against what he's doing.
There are a huge number of federal offices left unfilled at the moment largely because congress is dragging its feet on confirmations. The republicans have the majority in both houses so that makes no sense.
Your failure is lack of imagination, and it frankly doesn't take that much to figure this out so that's particularly pathetic. They don't want to confirm people that are just going to lead to scandal and subsequent removal because that makes them look like the party of fuckups that they are, and Trump's picks are so b
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... you really don't see it.
Okay, lets try again.
Let us say you were a flat earther... for the sake of argument... and I asked you "what would it take to prove that the world isn't flat"...
And you responded "I personally have to go into a rocket ship and see the round earth from the moon."
That's basically what you just did there. You set an unreasonable standard so that even if your dumb idea is dumb and easily proven wrong... I can't meet your standard because its so fucking unreasonable.
So okay... that fl
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And you responded "I personally have to go into a rocket ship and see the round earth from the moon."
Actually, it's more like "I want to see a picture from a rocket ship". I don't need to go to Congress and see them personally. I just need them to do their fucking jobs. If that's too much to ask, then it's too much to ask that I take them at their words.
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Impeaching a president from your own party is the only standard of opposition you accept.
Never mind that Democrats didn't try to impeach Bush and Republicans didn't try to impeach obama despite them being against the policies of both.
Your standard is obviously and even by your own admission... irrational. We have many examples of people and parties being against policies and sitting presidents without pushing impeachment. In fact that is the standard state of affairs.
This much is obvious and that you set th
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you're trying to spin him submitting to corruption and fraud as dignity...
Good Game.
Re:I've been wondering why it is (Score:5, Interesting)
The HR people and hiring managers I've spoken to tell me the climate regarding hiring H1-B's has shifted dramatically. The are very concerned about the increased scrutiny from the government to justify the hires and as a result they are looking elsewhere.
Even infosys is shifting work from visa holders to Americans. Apparently it is possible to find local talent when necessary.
https://www.hrdive.com/news/in... [hrdive.com]
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The HR people and hiring managers I've spoken to tell me the climate regarding hiring H1-B's has shifted dramatically. The are very concerned about the increased scrutiny from the government to justify the hires and as a result they are looking elsewhere.
Correct, now it's a better bargain to hire kids straight out of college.
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The HR people and hiring managers I've spoken to tell me the climate regarding hiring H1-B's has shifted dramatically. The are very concerned about the increased scrutiny from the government to justify the hires and as a result they are looking elsewhere.
Correct, now it's a better bargain to hire kids straight out of college.
Check out this video where an immigration lawyer is whining about the increased requests for evidence and denials. She even acknowledges that lack of specialized skills is justification to deny a petition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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If they had been this strict all these years H1B program will not be bad. We hire only US Masters/PhDs. We follow both the letter and the spirit of the law. The additional scrutiny is welcome.
IT was the Indian IT companies who used Indian diploma mills that made a mockery of the law and gamed the system,
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couldn't even get enough support to overcome a little back stabbing from his party (which let's remember Trump easily did).
It wasn't his party. He has always been an independent. It's not terribly surprising that switching allegience for 5 minutes to Democrat just so he could run as president with a party didn't convince the Democrat party members.
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It wasn't his party. He has always been an independent. It's not terribly surprising that switching allegience for 5 minutes to Democrat just so he could run as president with a party didn't convince the Democrat party members.
Uh, no. He DID convince the Democrat party members. The polls clearly showed that Democrats wanted to vote for Sanders. He failed to convince the Democrat party committee. They subverted the democratic process, ran a candidate the polls said could not beat Trump, and lost the election. They could not have thrown the election any more effectively if they tried.
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Uh, no. He DID convince the Democrat party members.
No he didn't.
The polls clearly showed that Democrats wanted to vote for Sanders.
Except they didn't vote for him in the primaries.
They subverted the democratic process
By usin the normal mechanisms rather than going off opinion pieces based on internet polls.
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The DNC spoiled for Hillary every step of the way.
The died in the wool Democrats prefered a Democrat to some rando wo signed up just for the election.
The polls said that Clinton couldn't beat Trump.
I remember different polls from the election cycle.
What if the DNC had embraced leftist ideals, and actually supported Sanders? ... so some rando who doesn't have remotely the same poltical affiliation either. The Democrat is on the right end of centre right, not left.
Some 10% of Sanders supporters ended up vo
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The DNC spoiled for Hillary every step of the way.
The died in the wool
That's dyed.
Democrats prefered a Democrat to some rando wo signed up just for the election.
The Democratic party prefers a centrist to a leftist, you mean.
The polls said that Clinton couldn't beat Trump.
I remember different polls from the election cycle.
Well, remember more carefully [newsweek.com]. The polls showed Clinton to win early, but as the election wore on, they shifted. The DNC assumed that Clinton could win, just like Clinton did (and then failed to campaign in key states.) But they always showed that Sanders could beat Trump.
What if the DNC had embraced leftist ideals, and actually supported Sanders?
People don't want centrism. If the DNC pushes centrism, it will fail again and again. Centrism has only led us further down the spiral.
Some 10% of Sanders supporters ended up voting for Trump
No accounting for idiots, I guess!
There is accounting for idiot
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That's dyed.
It is indeed, my bad.
Well, remember more carefully. The polls showed Clinton to win early, but as the election wore on, they shifted. The DNC assumed that Clinton could win, just like Clinton did (and then failed to campaign in key states.) But they always showed that Sanders could beat Trump.
Well, not exactly, there are polls that showed Hillary winning. And none of the later polls (after he dropped out) involved Sanders either. And as we both know, polls are something of an er inexact art.
Pe
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People don't want centrism. If the DNC pushes centrism, it will fail again and again. Centrism has only led us further down the spiral.
That's a fundamental misunderstanding of US politics. The 70% of Americans who are politically disinterested are centrists and want centrism. That's the vast crowd who never participates in political discussions online.
What people increasingly don't want is the establishment. The 70% of politicians who blatantly don't care about voters, and sell them out to corporate donors, and never seem to fix any of the day-to-day problems that it seems the government should fix.
You'll notice that, since the mid-90s
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that I see tech almost completely dominated by people here on work visas, to the point where companies have completely shut down their training departments because they don't have to train anymore. There's not enough H1-Bs to fill that many positions. The program is big and corrupt but not that big and corrupt.
It's simple: Companies don't want to pay a fair wage. They want to maximize profits and cutting costs (wages) is a way to do that. Self employment is looking more attractive all the time.
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The wedge issues keep the two party system alive.
A little back stabbing for Bernie? When your party is "behind the scenes" completely against you, one cannot win.
Regarding changes of support for things, Presidents always become centrists to some degree. The two party system enforces this.
And the two parties have billions upon billions of dollars (unlimited at this point, Supreme Court fail), they will continue to win unopposed at the levels that really matter.
Trump is an outlier for sure. But Hillary sho
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Try getting any original thinking out of the foreign programmers. They do exactly as instructed and no more.They won't tell you that you asked them to code the wrong thing like an American. As an added bonus, when they go back home to India or China, they'll take your intellectual property with them. There's almost no way to enforce any of America's expansive I.P. theft prohibitions in their home countries.
Re: I've been wondering why it is (Score:5, Insightful)
The corp I work for (Fortune 50 listed) has an office in Curryland (India) and the place entire place is a shit show. 60% turnover in 24 months. The longest national to work there is 5 years because he's the manager and they pay him stupid amounts of money to put up with the local's bullshit. The manager is American and he likens his job to herding autistic cats.
The code they produce is ok.. not stellar, just do what they are told and could EASILY be done by a just out of Uni grad. The problem is that code isn't the issue. Knowing the ecosystem is.. that takes time to develop.. but the locals jump ship (again 60%+ turnover and that's average) because they want a job with a company that has the POSSIBILITY of a visa to the US. Our corp simply doesn't do visa's.. so they use us as a stepping stone. Don't fool yourself for one second that every Indian in India would eat a cow if it meant coming to the US.
The H-1B visa is a carrot used to get the smart foreign talent. They are generally not that good, but bottom line is that they are CHEAP and *good enough*. Plus you can send them back in a year or two and not have to deal with long term salary/benefits. A dev with 15+ years experience is significantly more expansive than an H-1B monkey.
Increase the price of the visa and require that visa applicants get paid the same a native counterparts... you'll see H-1B workers dry up in a second.
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No, more like indentured servitude. But it does indeed suck for the workers involved.
I very much agree that we should make H-1Bs much more expensive. We should be bringing rock stars from other countries, not drones. But I also think we should be increasing the rights/protections of the H-1B workers.
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Re: I've been wondering why it is (Score:2, Interesting)
While income may be an indicator of competence in some areas, this is certainly not the case here. You canâ(TM)t compare an Australian with a Chinese or Indian worker for the simple reason that the latter risk a lot more if they loose their visa status. They will just shut up and avoid complaining, asking for pay rises or changing employers (which they they canâ(TM)t). The former doesnâ(TM)t really care, at worst he may have to go back to Australia (though highly unlikely), where his life sty
Re: I've been wondering why it is (Score:4, Insightful)
The attitude displayed by this troll is a major cause of all the security breaches we keep seeing.
He pays peanuts, and he absolutely DOES NOT CARE that he is getting monkeys. He profits, and society picks up the bill.
Re: I've been wondering why it is (Score:2)
I like asparagus and avocados!
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Bernie would have done the same. Much of the Trump Administration is Bush people. Much of Bernie's would have been Obama and Clinton people. Trump is relatively hostile to tech CEOs wanting to expand immigration. Obama's administration had weekly meetings with their lobbyists.
Interesting. It sounds like you're saying the Presidential election is but a spoof of democracy that rather falsely reassures the electorate that they're actually in charge of who runs the government. If that's true, the people who really hold the power control the bureaucrats, rather than the elected officials... makes sense, since appointment might be easier to control than election.
Preventing revolt of the guards or alternatives (Score:2)
Howard Zinn talks about a possible revolt of the guards: http://www.historyisaweapon.co... [historyisaweapon.com]
"However, the unexpected victories-even temporary ones-of insurgents show the vulnerability of the supposedly powerful. In a highly developed society, the Establishment cannot survive without the obedience and loyalty of millions of people who are given small rewards to keep the system going: the soldiers and police, teachers and ministers, administrators and social workers, technicians and production workers, doctors,
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Governemnt helping big tech companies (Score:5, Insightful)
I really struggle to believe there is a shortage of workers in STEM in the US at all. I really think this is all about forcing down wages.
Just my 2 cents
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It keeps unions down in the USA. Thats great for the brand and its wealth.
Nations send their best to the USA so their own workforces don't have a few of their best every generation working for the US brands.
That allows the US to stay super competitive in some strange way? By removing the best from other nations and getting them to work in USA?
Lawyers help US brands place the international workers and ensure the US gov accepts t
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When I'm looking for team members I care about what they're able to do and we pay our American and H1B workers the same salary (just north of 100k). So payment is not the issue as you like to claim. In shortages employees have more
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As someone that hires engineers as well, this is the same situation I run into. I do find a lot of American engineers absolutely sub-par. Many schools in the US have lowered the bar, because they're not any where near the caliber from the generation before them.
But there are many companies that abuse H1B's to absurd levels, my neighbor is a prime example of this, so it does happen, and quite often. So much so, it has depressed my area that it makes it now impossible to hire people even remotely qualified be
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It called, quite simply, compulsory regulated training programs. Simply laws that force companies over a certain size to spend money on training. Employing local students and paying them through college, not a request but a legal regulated demand.
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This isn't about anti-american
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There are individuals I know I can count on and work with, then there is the 9 to 4 crowd (yes it is supposed to be 8 to 5) with an hour off for lunch bunch.
Just my 2 cents
Re: Governemnt helping big tech companies (Score:2)
You offer lousy pay, and therefore can't find any skilled Americans. So you import a bunch of H1-B workers to avoid paying market rate for skilled locals.
Sounds like you and your company ARE the problem.
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You're promoting that companies "aren't paying enough". Maybe for IT work as that becomes the new 'mechanic' commo
Re: Governemnt helping big tech companies (Score:3)
The pay rates you quote are most unimpressive relative to the cost of buying property in major American cities. That's why you can't find skilled US citizen workers.
Thank you again for using imported H1-B labor to put downward pressure on local wages. Without the diligent efforts of people like you, we might have a thriving middle class.
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My mechanic ge
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In that case the sensible thing to do is make sure migrant workers get paid more than local ones. Then they are available to companies that really need them, and wages are not forced down.
As a migrant worker that's what I expect. Maybe the same wage as locals, but also up front cash for relocation.
Re: Governemnt helping big tech companies (Score:5, Interesting)
Here in Vietnam, foreign workers earn at least 3x as much as a local doing the same job. Many earn more than that.
So as you can imagine, companies do NOT hire foreigners for any job that could be done by a local. If they don't have 10-15 years of serious experience in a profession, the only job open to a foreigner is language teacher.
That is bad for inexperienced foreigners hoping to work in Vietnam. But it's very good for the local economy and local society. There is no anti-immigrant sentiment here, because there are few of us and we aren't taking anyone's jobs.
I think we should adopt a similar policy in the United States. The law should require any imported foreign workers to be paid at least three times as much as their American counterparts. That single simple rule would be enough to end H-1B abuse overnight.
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force down wages of their technical workers. I love the whining that they can not find workers. Truth is they can not find workers willing to work under their terms and conditions for the amount of money they want to pay.
BINGO!
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Let that nation attract brands with the low cost workers, no taxes and engineering skills.
Why pay to bring low cost workers to the US to take jobs in the USA?
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"American tech workers thinking they're worth more than they are"
I was unemployed for a year and a half, in which time I saw my old job advertised to me at the same salary I had been making.
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Re: Governemnt helping big tech companies (Score:2)
It's really fucking easy to find qualifed tech workers in Surveillance Valley. If you are willing to pay a better than average wage. It's that simple.
Except (Score:2)
H-1B visas are good as long as you work for the sponsoring employer;
but, when the worker departs the sponsor, he has to find employment with another company qualified to use imported labor, seek a status change, marry a local princess, or depart the country.
Optional Practical Training [wikipedia.org] applies initially as an extension to students with F-1 Visas, [wikipedia.org] although several extensions have been approved in recent years.
Right. (Score:2)
So now we have an immigration program that is openly intended to move US jobs overseas.
What we should have is a program which ends in the recipient receiving a green card.
I also went thru the OPT program (Score:4, Insightful)
A few years ago, OPT was not strictly necessary, hence I used it for a few months. However now with much more people applying for H1-B, and having a significantly smaller chance to get one, people tend to stay on OPT for longer periods. They have been living here in US for long periods (school + work), maybe 7-8 or more. And I would believe most have already proved their benefit to this country.
I had friends who were contributing members of our society who had to leave for other countries due to losing the H1-B lottery several years in a row. They tend to hang on to OPT as much as possible than have to leave, at least for another year.
For this reason I would prefer merit based, or "auction" based H1-B system. If the company finds the candidate to contribute significant amounts, then they can also "bid" by giving higher salaries. This also answers the question about skilled labor being replaced with foreign unskilled ones. If you cannot pay in the top so much thousand (50K?) positions for a foreign employee, it means the company does not actually value their work so much.
(I would also support separate quotas for engineers, and lower paying important jobs, like skilled teachers).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
US citizens have to accept a low wage in the USA to stay competitive with workers from other nations who got a "free" university education.
I have a hard time complaining (Score:2)
Getting the best and brightest from other countries is a good thing. It used to bother me a little, but after hiring two Indian engineers I would say I would rather keep that talent in the US.
The only problem is that now to transition them to H1B, they need to earn $91k... without their PE. One is worth it for sure, the other has to convince me still...
Re: I have a hard time complaining (Score:2)
Thanks for helping to drive down American wages.
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Has nothing to do with “American wages,” and especially not in a downward direction. If they become eligible for the H1B, they would be at about 115% of normal wage for the position based on experience (and maybe 105-110% based on capability). But, the reason for hiring them is about getting talent, not just bodies. There is maybe 1% unemployment in my industry locally right now— likely much less.
Tell me again about "Ugly America" (Score:4, Insightful)
Tell me again,please, how stupid, unfriendly, obnoxious, and otherwise unpleasant America is, and how badly degrading and oppressive and otherwise unfortunate the life here...
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Tell me again,please, how stupid, unfriendly, obnoxious, and otherwise unpleasant America is, and how badly degrading and oppressive and otherwise unfortunate the life here...
Hey bro, heads up: you appear to be replying to the voices in your head rather than anyone in the thread.
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What is it with your kind insisting on calling strangers "bro"? Is it a subtle insult you make — defiling the target's reputation by claiming his close acquaintanceship with the likes of your own? Or just a desperate and pitiable attempt to belong?
I'm addressing the cowards like this one [slashdot.org], having heard their voices — snarky and outraged alike — numerous times before. Indeed, yours may very well have been among them, whether out of s
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What is it with your kind insisting on calling strangers "bro"?
Because it annoys them.
Trump travel ban alone has that covered. (Score:2)
There's also the beatings of gay people, [huffingtonpost.com] rampant islamophobia, [theawl.com] and descendants of European invaders calling descendants of native american's "illegal immigrants." Yet here you are, with your wingnut persecution complex.
Re:Tell me again about "Ugly America" (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess mi technically asked you to tell him that, and you did.
But still, maybe read a little about Race and Justice [slatestarcodex.com] in the U.S. before spouting off on it. For example:
Compared to most countries, America is a paradise of opportunity, welcomes immigrants and foreign workers, and has non-existent issues with racism, sexism, historical inequities, etc... You probably also think Americans invented slavery...
Note the shitweasel words (Score:2)
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You obviously didn't read the link, because all the conclusions are based on and cite academic studies, official statistics and academic meta-studies.
So stop arguing out of your ass and do a little research.
Re:Tell me again about "Ugly America" (Score:5, Informative)
You mean, besides Spain, Portugal, Cuba, Brazil, Italy, France, Netherlands, Russia, Germany, among others? Don't forget to include their full colonies and territorial possessions.
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You mean, besides Spain, Portugal, Cuba, Brazil, Italy, France, Netherlands, Russia, Germany, among others? Don't forget to include their full colonies and territorial possessions.
First off, you are so incorrect you deserve a QI klaxon [youtube.com]
By western, he meant European and you knew that.
Germany as a unified state did not exist until 1871 and has never permitted slavery (if we exclude the Nazis).
Spain made slavery illegal in 1818 (did not take effect until 1820) as part of a treaty with the United Kingdom (plus we had kicked their arses in the Napoleonic war).
Portugal eliminated slavery in 1818 due to a treaty with the United Kingdom (we did this a lot).
Italy was the same as Ger
Re:Tell me again about "Ugly America" (Score:4, Informative)
Germany: Why wouldn't slavery under the Nazi's count? They ran the country at the time...
Spain: The 1818 treaty banned the slave trade, not slavery. They didn't ratify the slavery convention until 1927.
Portugal: Slavery wasn't abolished in all territories until 1869. Again, you seem to be confusing the slave trade with slavery. The United States banned the international "slave trade" in 1807.
Italy: Ratified the 1926 Slavery Convention in 1954. Until then, Italian Somaliland (their colony) still allowed slavery.
France: I missed. 1794 is right.
Netherlands: So the same time as the emancipation proclamation and when slaves were freed in the United States.
Russia: You're forgetting about the Soviet forced labor camps during WW II, among other things.
So you're 1/7 right. Does that mean you get a klaxon? It pays to know what you're talking about, before talking about it.
P.S. The UK had plenty of slaves, especially in colonies, but they also essentially were the first to lead the fight to abolish it around the world, including in their colonies and territories, so it seems churlish to try and get them on a technicality.
Re: Tell me again about "Ugly America" (Score:2)
Get off it, Ivan. That divisive socjus Newspeak is soooooooooo last year. We're not interested in listening to your bigoted yammering anymore.
Now sit down and shut up, while the adults try to figure out how to fix our fuckt economy.
OPT is for the student's benefit (Score:2)
OPT was designed so the student earns on the job skills on US soil after graduation. It's more like an internship. Companies can benefit in the sense that if they like the student's work after a year, THEN they can try to get the student worker a H1B.
I'm personally affected by this as i will be trying for it once i finish with my studies.