Walmart Offers To Foot College Tuition Bills for US Employees (bloomberg.com) 181
Walmart will begin offering to subsidize college tuition for its 1.5 million workers in the United States, joining a growing list of companies that are helping employees pay for higher education as a perk in a tight labor market. From a report: The retailer's 1.5 million employees can now pursue associate's or bachelor's degrees in business or supply-chain management at three nonprofit schools for $1 a day, according to a statement Wednesday. Walmart will subsidize tuition, books and fees and provide support with the application and enrollment processes. As many as 68,000 employees might sign up, Walmart executives estimated. "Many of our associates don't have the opportunity to complete a degree," said Drew Holler, Walmart's U.S. vice president of people innovation, in an interview. "We felt strongly that this is something that would improve their lives and help us run a better business." The tuition program -- offered to part-time staff as well as full-timers -- is the latest move by Walmart to improve employee retention and engagement. A handful of other companies, including Starbucks and Amazon, also offer tuition support.
Know what else might help? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Nah...I'd take a serious look at this if I was about to start college in a semi-rural community.
I worked in a crappy health care data center for $10/hr during my first two years of college but I did it because they paid for most of my school, which boosted my real wages to closer to $20/hr (in the 1990's), or closer to $40/hr since half the time I was "working" in the data center I was actually working on homework.
As for all the shmoes who are perfectly happy stocking shelves their wh
Re:Know what else might help? (Score:4, Insightful)
Tuition assistance is actually more affordable.
Low Labor cost tends to go to the young where their livable wage is much cheaper ( often do not have a home or family to support)
As employees stay at the company longer they will normally get raises (especially if they are ambitious and hardworking) There reaches a point where their work ability exceeds what Walmart can offer. So Walmart is paying more for an employee then their actual worth to the organization is.
So Tuition assistance will attract young people trying to get a college degree, work at Walmart for 4 or 5 years graduate and move to bigger and better things.
So they keep employees long enough for them make the company money, have them leave on their own free will once they become too expensive to keep on board.
Walmart may not be a livable wage, however it isn't too bad for a introduction job without having any skill sets.
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What difference should the skill level required to do the job make? Even jobs that require supposedly "almost no skills" can be no less demanding of a persons time and energy. If a person is willing to work hard at such a job, and presumably the job needs to be done, then why shouldn't they be entitled to a living wage doing it?
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Working full time at Wal-mart takes up no less of a person's time than jobs with higher skill requirements, and there are only so many hours in a day to work. Why should a person who is putting in that time and working hard at Wal-mart not be entitled to being able to a fair wage that is actually enough to live on? Why should a person who may not have the skills to get a better job, have to work for wages so low that they are effectively in slavery, unable to get out simply because of the lack of mor
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Word salad, with almost no meaning, other than emotional arguments. Clear sign you have nothing useful to actually contribute. Instead, you believe that people are entitled to a "fair wage" (meaningless term) simply for breathing air and maybe showing up to work maybe sober. You have absolutely no idea what it actually takes to pay people a wage, make payroll every month. Fair Wage proponent's basic assumptions of economics are flat out in error.
I happen to know for a fact that people in low to no skill job
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> Those people who want higher and higher minimum wages are supporting barriers to entry into job market.
Is not a barrier to entry. While it does reduce the number of low paying jobs, that effect at current federal levels is minor. The last study of states that have minimum wages over the federal levels concluded a 10% increase in minimum wage, caused a 1% decrease in employment in low level jobs. It also creates a greater incentive towards productivity increases, through things like automation and tra
Re:Know what else might help? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, not all jobs can command a living wage for a given area. You make the mistake that assumes all labor is valuable. Should I be guaranteed a living wage if I want to fashion life-sized busts of president Trump from cow manure that I sell by the side of the road in western Oklahoma? You can only pay someone as much as consumers are willing to pay for their labor. If no one in western Oklahoma wants to buy a Trump dung-head, then my labor is not valuable at any price.
Money is merely a commodity and attempts to shuffle it around do not change the underlying reality that there is a certain amount of productivity and that the relative value of any labor cannot be established by fiat. Were that the case, the Soviets would have won the cold war and many Venezuelans wouldn't be facing starvation at the current moment. If you want the most impoverished individuals to be more well off, the only effective method is to increase the overall amount of productivity and wealth in the world. They will still be about as poor relatively speaking, but they can get a tiny slice of a bigger pie. That's why it's not uncommon to see homeless people with cell phones. Productivity improvements and technological advancements have made them so ubiquitous that their within reach of almost all of society.
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On the contrary, I consider lots of labor not worth human effort. That's why we need either a reasonable living wage, or a UBI, because cheap, often subsidized, labor is a disincentive towards labor-saving innovations. Why make something efficient enough to pay a decent wage when you can throw an army of dirt-cheap labor at your problems?
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I rather give my money to Bezos if it will keep me outta their stores.
LMAO yea, because he's a real humanitarian....
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How long does it take to incur "massive debt" at a dollar a day?
Re:Know what else might help? (Score:5, Informative)
If they raise pay, much of it is taxed away by payroll taxes (SS, SSDI, unemployment tax, etc) and is taxable income for the employee. Many of Walmart's employees qualify for EITC, and higher pay will push them out of that bracket. For every dollar extra that Walmart pays, about 60 cents ends up in the employee's pocket.
Tuition assistance avoids these problems. A dollar in is a dollar out.
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Not only that, it attracts ambitious hard working people who view their unskilled Walmart position as a means to an end. That's going to be a big improvement over your current pool of employees who are there for the job itself.
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If they raise pay, much of it is taxed away by payroll taxes (SS, SSDI, unemployment tax, etc) and is taxable income for the employee. Many of Walmart's employees qualify for EITC, and higher pay will push them out of that bracket. For every dollar extra that Walmart pays, about 60 cents ends up in the employee's pocket.
Tuition assistance avoids these problems. A dollar in is a dollar out.
Or it could be a lot cheaper to give a "temporary bonus" to 0.45% of their workforce (according to their top enrollment expectations) while fending off calls for higher wages because all the employees have to do for a higher salary is "get an education on their dime." Not to mention that unlike payroll, this is very likely a tax write-off for the company
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Not to mention that unlike payroll, this is very likely a tax write-off for the company
Payroll is a tax write-off, just like any other business expense.
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Many of Walmart's employees qualify for EITC, and higher pay will push them out of that bracket. ... Tuition assistance avoids these problems. A dollar in is a dollar out.
Well, any extra income is helpful even with potentially higher marginal tax rates. Tuition assistance is also helpful, assuming that that particular form education is exactly what is desired. Otherwise, the money at whatever tax rate is preferable. The really big question is whether this education will result in better positions or pay within Walmart or better job opportunities outside of Walmart.
For every dollar extra that Walmart pays, about 60 cents ends up in the employee's pocket.
Assuming that a typical Walmart employee earns less than $38,700, their federal marginal tax rate would be 15
Did you get this from a right wing think tank (Score:3, Interesting)
It's a lie. No, employees making $15/hr don't pay 40% of their income in taxes. Even at $15/hr (the living wage as of 2018, though it's going to have to be raised soon) you pay about 15-20%. Less if you have kids. I know, I made
Re: Know what else might help? (Score:2)
I think tuition support is a taxable benefit. So the folks will pay $1/day for tuition, but the IRS will count it as then having earned an extra 15k/year or whatever its market value is, and some folks (maybe the married ones in dual income families) now find themselves pushed into a taxable income bracket.
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I think tuition support is a taxable benefit.
The first $5250 per year is not taxable. Most of the tuition is going to community colleges, where tuition is not very expensive.
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This isn't exactly an example of that. This is an example of an employer following the incentives put into place by the government.... they are doing exactly what the government incentivized them to do. Apparently the government values continuing education more than it values additional tax revenue, so that is what is happening.
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Like many other such employers, they have a habit of only offering less than 30 hours a week employment per employee so as to not have to pay full benefits. Thus pushing people into multiple jobs, multiple commutes per day, and juggling hours. Now with added study hours on top? There's only so many hours in a week.
This. Also, look at this from TFA:
OUR Walmart, an activist group, called the plan a “step forward” in a statement, but questioned how many employees would be able take advantage of it because of the company’s scheduling system, which might make it difficult to juggle work and college.
“As soon as you tell Walmart you’re going to school, you lose access to a full-time schedule,” Andrea Dehlendorf, co-executive director of OUR Walmart, said in an interview after the company’s shareholder meeting Wednesday.
I don't shop at Walmart. I confess, when I saw this headline, I almost reconsidered. Almost.
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The catch (Score:2)
Which will be ok for some with the online classes, but most prolly won't be able to do it with a crappy connection.
I had an employer do this to me (Score:5, Informative)
Fortunately I got out before they foisted it on me. The way it was structured I was basically paying for required training and then if they made enough money off me in 6 months I'd get it back. All the risk was on me. I'm not saying this is what it is, but it sure looks like it.
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You are right this is meant to benefit the corporation, but it does sound like they are at least taking some of the risk. From TFA:
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The only allowed degrees are 'business or supply-chain management'
AKA what Wal-Mart wants you to learn to keep you stuck there.
Seems like a bad deal. It'll be good if you could work towards any degree.
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Ya those degrees are worthless outside of Walmart. Who wants anyone with supply chain management?
Not true. Many retailers need supply chain management and MBA's to run things. Walmart is not the only game player in the market, though they may be the only game in town in some places.
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What's a 'supply chain management' degree? I've never heard of it.
I'll bet it's an 'associates', that's specific to Walmart's supply chain management software configuration. Sure a smart person could get some sort of start with that, but for the average Walmart employee? Shallow training for a future assistant manager, if they manage to step on enough necks to get the job.
Not just useful elsewhere - promoting from within. (Score:2)
Sounds to me, as well that;
- This is NOT a serfdom scam (like some tech companies that send you to boot camp and then charge you for it if you quit within a rather long time.0
- The skills and certs are likely to be useful for seeking jobs - and at higher levels - at other companies both in the same industry (which is where their people are likely to work even if they DO go to another company) and in business in general.
- Their training their people with skills suitable for higher ran
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About the "training" aspect -- I'd agree if this were the 50s or 60s and this was a massive lifelong employer like IBM, AT&T, General Motors, etc. Walmart isn't that kind of employer; if they could run their stores with zero employees they would because their margin is so low. So, what incentive do they have to train store managers? I'd think they and other retailers would be figuring out how to replace people as quickly as possible, and certainly not be interested in their career development.
The days w
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Re: And why might they want to pick the schools? (Score:3, Insightful)
Your comment is a perfect example of why this policy is important.
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The OP favors a monoculture of corporatism.
As the OP in question, I'd like to correct your misunderstanding.
The OP favors a polyculture of interacting individuals - but with the nonaggression principle as the core law for their interaction, recognizing property as "crystalized labor" (to quote the epiphany of a left-wing labor union leader of my acquaintance), and with groups having no more rights than those of the individuals of which they consist.
"Corporatism" is yet another set of socialist schemes, an
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That's great, but ... (Score:2)
Re:That's great, but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
"offered to part-time staff as well as full-timers"..." Courses can be taken...online"...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-30/walmart-s-tuition-play-comes-as-choosy-employees-head-for-exits
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For once, TFA provides the answers:
"offered to part-time staff as well as full-timers"..." Courses can be taken...online"...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news... [bloomberg.com]
But once you sign up for the program, you can no longer be a full-time staffer. That's in TFA, at the end.
How about a living wage instead? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:How about a living wage instead? (Score:5, Interesting)
WalMart makes their entire business on low prices, at a 3% profit margin (impressive). They've said they're neutral in minimum wage; they seem to support it, some say because a higher minimum wage will crush WalMart's small competitors.
Higher wages will inevitably lead to higher prices. It's not by much, but it's there. A $2 raise is about a 10% price increase on average--$20 pants become $22 pants--and they don't want everyone running to Target, causing loss of WalMart jobs, gain of Target jobs, and disruption for working families.
A minimum wage increase would cause a wage increase at WalMart and Target, causing the associated price increases. Structurally, nothing changes: WalMart still has lower prices, even if those prices are slightly-higher. Any impoverished Target employees shopping at WalMart are still shopping at WalMart, are better-paid, are paid more than enough to offset the price increases themselves, and so funnel more money into WalMart (so they can keep their same profit margin without as much of a price increase). WalMart gets richer.
It's WalMart's 3% NOP that gets me. That's insanely-low; it's impressive, to say the least. Adidas Shoes has 5%; about 8% is reasonable, just by being a common baseline; Comcast usually has 11%; and Microsoft and Apple hold above 20% NOP. I support a fair corporate income tax with a higher tax rate when the corporation's NOP is above reasonable levels; that generally means WalMart gets a tax cut and Apple gets to pay 48%. I don't honestly have a problem with this.
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Wal-Mart's business is not just cheap goods, but the economic class of goods known as "inferior goods." If people have the money to shop elsewhere, they will shop at Wal-Mart considerably less, and likely even save money in the long run (since well-made goods don't need to be replaced as often, or fail less).
Higher wages would be detrimental to Wal-Mart.
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Higher wages across the board would be detrimental to WalMart if and only if the class of people earning those wages were more-interested in less-inferior goods than in lower prices. If the minimum wage pushes prices up at WalMart and its competitors, WalMart's business strategy is contingent on people deciding they like WalMart's lower prices.
WalMart doesn't just sell inferior goods. I'm not entirely sure what's different about clothing bought at WalMart versus Sears, at a glance; and besides, your kid
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The very definition of inferior goods is that demand decreases when wages increase, which has overlap with, but is not the same as, cheaper goods. We can debate whether or not, or to what extent, Walmart operates in inferior goods, but if we accept the premise that this is a major part of their business model, it would be hurting at least that part of the model. There is also no shortage of discussing whether or not Walmart is a business of inferior goods, with the consensus leaning towards yes.
Walmart
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The very definition of inferior goods is that demand decreases when wages increase, which has overlap with, but is not the same as, cheaper goods.
Yes, and "when wage increases" is an important but imprecise concept. The difference is really that people would like to buy a nicer thing, but it's expensive; whereas cheaper goods which are not inferior are rationally-preferable even when you have unlimited money.
My point is that now you can afford a $100 backpack; but if you buy the $20 backpack, you can afford nicer food instead of GreatValue (WalMart) brand shit. You'll probably opt for the shitty backpack and clothes, for reasons stated above abo
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They have the same brand name, but not the same brand products. Wal-mart explicitly encourages brands [fastcompany.com] to make lower-quality versions to sell at their stores for a lower price, capitalizing on the brand name recognition:
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Living pay check to pay check isn't about how much money you bring in, but about how much you are spending in most cases.
It's more about managing what you spend to match what you take in than making more money. Usually more money doesn't help people who live paycheck to paycheck, it just allows them to dig a deeper hole. If you are struggling to service unsecured debt, you likely have a spending problem. If you find that a raise only puts you deeper in debt, your problem is spending, not earnings.
In today
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Living pay check to pay check isn't about how much money you bring in, but about how much you are spending in most cases.
I don't know who you think you are by being rational, but stop it! People don't want to take responsibility for themselves, but would rather make poor decisions and then blame someone else for the inevitably poor results.
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$7000/yr is about $600/mo. That's WITH a roommate in many parts of the US.
$100/mo for utilities: gas + electricity + phone isn't extravagant in most of the US. And yes, you need Internet or phone to (say) look for jobs these days.
The bus doesn't run everywhere, and good luck walking/biking along a major road with no sidewalk in Detroit winter or Phoenix summer.
Save on health expenses? See above. You just got hit by a car while biking to work. Do not pass go, pay $20,000 for ER bills.
Clothes - maybe. A
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I'm talking about cheap parts of the country.
A part of the US where there's good public transport AND cheap housing AND cheap food doesn't exist (IMHO). Usually only one or two out of three conditions hold true.
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Re:How about a living wage instead? (Score:5, Insightful)
Living pay check to pay check isn't about how much money you bring in, but about how much you are spending in most cases.
I don't know who you think you are by being rational, but stop it! People don't want to take responsibility for themselves, but would rather make poor decisions and then blame someone else for the inevitably poor results.
Yea, I'm very sorry.. The whole "pull yourself up by your own boot straps" "hard work wins" message is quite hurtful to those who think the world owes them and will throw a riot, burring down their own neighborhoods to prove it. I know the pain they feel when the welfare checks get delayed or the WIC debit card stops working for 20 min and I just added to it by making them feel responsible for themselves, if just for a brief moment..
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I believe the idea is that people can use this education to get a better job.
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That's nice, Walmart, but I think what people want is to not have both mom and dad working 60 hour work weeks yet still be living paycheck-to-paycheck.
That sounds reasonable when shooting from gut instinct, but that instinct is almost always wrong. I've watched what happens when the minimum wage gets an unreasonable boost: working hours go down to compensate, and usually go low enough to overcompensate. Thus, employees make less money with the wage increase than they made before it.
In my city, most full time minimum wage employees saw working hours slashed substantially so employers wouldn't have to pay as much as they were already paying. When the Aff
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A better solution would be for those parents to not be parents until they are financially and educationally viable to support a family.
Any solution depends on time travel is not actually a solution.
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A better solution would be for those parents to not be parents until they are financially and educationally viable to support a family. For those parents who didn't think before exchanging DNA, this is why your parents told you to not have sex until you were able to support a family. Your life is probably very difficult now, and you have only yourself to blame
You were doing fine right up to that point where you revealed what a complete and total authoritarian asshole you are, who also by the way doesn't have a grip on reality. People have kids when they have kids and if you want to invoke the most violent reaction possible from them, then try to dictate to them when and/or how many kids they can have, because it's nobody's business but their own. No, I don't have kids nor have I ever wanted any so don't EVEN try that crap with me, mister. Your holier-than-thou s
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You were doing fine right up to that point where you revealed what a complete and total authoritarian asshole you are....
I think you have...issues.
No, I don't have kids nor have I ever wanted any so don't EVEN try that crap with me, mister.
I do have kids. I didn't do a whole lot of worrying about getting married and starting a family until after I got my degree and was satisfied that I was in a stable career. I worked my way into a stable and respected position in my career before taking on the responsibility that comes with having a wife and creating young people that depend on me for everything.
Again, it's basic common sense. Be outraged about it all you want, but having a wife and kids you can't support because
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Walmart's starting hourly wage is $11/hr. If both mom and dad are working 60 hr work weeks, they're making almost $70,000/yr combined. There are a lot of places in the US where making that much is not living paycheck to paycheck.
This is great news! (Score:3)
Not bad, but also self-serving (Score:2)
The summary mentions that these degrees are in "business or supply chain management", and only available through 3 institutions. I'll give them credit for not going to ITT Tech or U of Phoenix or something...that's a plus. But, does the world need any more generic business students? Will Walmart even need them as time goes by?
Even when I graduated a million years ago, the generic business, psychology, communications, etc. students were basically attending class between parties and most just squeaked by. Wit
Why restrict the choice so much? (Score:2)
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The university SJW demands for a free "living" wage.
SJW are looking for workers to talk to about unions, wages changes.
To put what the SJW academics educated generations of SJW about into reality all over the USA.
The desire for a worker once on campus to discover unionism at university. SJW can help workers on campus discover new ways of understanding their place in society.
The ability for a worker to meet a SJW student who passes on unionist reading material and they get talkin
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Just gonna drive the price of tuition higher (Score:2)
If you subsidize on the demand side, you lower the cost to buyers while keeping the price to sellers the same. Someone in the middle (government, scholarship fund, Walmart, etc) makes up the difference. The lower cost to buyers increases demand. If the product is a commodity (all versions of the product are more or less identical and interchangeable, e.g. lettuce, or oil), this increased d
Well (Score:2)
lots! (Score:2)
With diabetes on the rise in America we're going to need lots of podiatrists.
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Actually, we just need someone to tell these diabetics to stop eating/drinking sugar and grains.
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Re: lots! (Score:2)
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Hey! You can't tell me what I can't do. this is 'merica and we have freedom here. Unlike those communists and socialists in China and Europe.
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Considering how much of their work day their associates spend standing up or walking around? Quite a few. B-)
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The problem with government garneted student loans for just about any degree (Basket weaving, Women's Studies etc) is clear. However, I don't see where Wal-Mart is going to contribute to the high cost of education with this program. Why?
First, this isn't a loan guarantee, it's tuition assistance.
Second, it's only for areas of study that Wal-Mart finds valuable and one would assume other companies would as well.
Finally, only about a million employees of Wal-Mart are eligible and only a fraction of thos
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Maybe some smart but poor kids will now choose to work at WalMart for a few years for the opportunity to attend college without accruing crushing debt.
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"We need to tell people that there's no shame in getting a minimum wage job and figuring out how to be an adult and what you want to do with your life before going to school. I think that message would prevent a large part of the problem. "
I'm not so sure about that. Certainly back when I went, if you didn't apply in your senior year of high school you missed out on certain opportunities. Even one year off unless you were in community college put you in the "non-traditional" crowd and effectively limited yo
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I'm not so sure about that. Certainly back when I went, if you didn't apply in your senior year of high school you missed out on certain opportunities. Even one year off unless you were in community college put you in the "non-traditional" crowd and effectively limited your choices of schools that would accept you.
It doesn't surprise me that schools would attempt to push people towards a path that results in the most money for the school even if it is a disservice to the individuals involved.
In a perfect world where everyone knew what they wanted to do with their life at 18 and was mature enough to take advantage of all of the opportunities they have with regards to education, I'd agree with you completely. However, we know that isn't the case from the data: Only 19% graduate on time. [nytimes.com]. Worse still 30% will not fin [slate.com]
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I see The Enlightenment has passed you by.
we need more trades / apprenticeships tracks tech (Score:2)
we need more trades / apprenticeships tracks in tech and need to stop the idea the schools saying that not going to college is bad.
plumbers and electricians don't need 4 years of pure classroom. and if they do say it better for them to get experience and they say learns skills on how to run there own shop.
In IT / tech there are people who go to 4 years pure classroom that can be clueless. And yet we have bootcamps / tech schools (2-4 years over kill but needed to be roped in the college system)
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Business majors? Think again. Those are 'certificates of attendance', at best.
Standard drunken frat boy degree, dime a dozen, each dumber than the last.
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There is no better test for "not college bound" than becoming a Wal-Mart employee.
Why?
If one is wanting to go to school, why is a Wal-Mart job somehow crosswise to that goal?
My son has a $10/hour job he's held for two years and is starting college in the fall. Where I don't expect him to work full time and be a full time student to pay his way given I have the means, he *could* easily attend college and pay for it himself working part time, at least for the first two years at the community college.
If he can do it, I'm sure working at Wal-Mart wouldn't be that different.
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My wife worked at Wal-Mart when she was in college. She now has her CPA, a Bachelor's in Economics, and a Master's in Accounting.
You're a fucking moron.
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Michael Larson became an assistant manage at Walmart
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Fair point. Most companies/agencies I've worked for typically want to own you for the duration of your education + 1/2 years. It's a contract between employee and employer, breach typically means the employee must pay back the past 1-2 years of tuition paid for by the employer.
I would assume Wal-Mart would be similar. Reimbursement for full-time school up to N dollars, half-time up to N/2 dollars, per year. Should the employee quit or otherwise stop working for Wal-Mart, I'm sure WM will recoup at least N d
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Fiscally conservative?
You mean one that supports tax cuts while wanting to pay to revamp out military's murder devices and technologies?
A fiscally conservative president would tell the military industrial complex to go bugger itself.
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Nimrod? A mighty builder and warrior? Why thank you, good sire.
Trump isn't even slightly fiscally conservative. He's even less responsible than the two presidents that came before him.
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True about business majors -- business education is responsible for a lot of the lack of scruples and short-sightedness seen in US business.
Not sure if bachelor's degrees are watered-down and grade-inflated. In popular disciplines -- i.e. biochem to pre-med, they tend to want to keep the averages at a C+ or so to weed out the people who won't be able to hack it in upper-level classes.
Same goes for CS, I'd assume.