Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Earth Government Transportation United States

Hawaii Passes Law To Make State Carbon Neutral By 2045 (fastcompany.com) 131

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Fast Company: In a little less than three decades, Hawaii plans to be carbon neutral -- he most ambitious climate goal in the United States. Governor David Ige signed a bill today committing to make the state fully carbon neutral by 2045, along with a second bill that will use carbon offsets to help fund planting trees throughout Hawaii. A third bill requires new building projects to consider how high sea levels will rise in their engineering decisions. The state is especially vulnerable to climate change -- sea level rise, for example, threatens to cause $19 billion in economic losses -- and that's one of the reasons that the new laws had support.

Transportation is a challenge -- while the state is planning for a future where cars run on renewable electricity, it also relies heavily on planes and ships, which will take longer to move to electric charging, and which Hawaii can't directly control. "Those are global transportation networks that don't have easy substitutes right now," Glenn says. "That's one of the reasons why we really want to pursue the carbon offset program, because we know we're going to continue to be dependent on shipping and aviation, and if they continue to burn carbon to bring us our tourists and our goods and our supplies and our food, then we want to try to have a way to sequester the impact we're causing by importing all this stuff to our islands." The government plans to sell carbon offsets to pay to plant native trees, which can help absorb CO2 from the atmosphere as they grow. The state is also working to become more self-sufficient. The governor aims to double local food production by 2030; right now, around 90% of what residents and tourists eat in Hawaii -- 6 million pounds of food a day -- comes from somewhere else, on planes or ships.

Hawaii Passes Law To Make State Carbon Neutral By 2045

Comments Filter:
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:04AM (#56730214)

    So just how are they going to offset that???

    • Use the energy from thermal power plants to turn it back into coal.
      • then make diamonds and make billions.

        If the current volcano doesnt destroy them when it sink and makes a 300ft tsunami

    • We can't. But you should know full well. When we say Carbon Neutral. We are talking about carbon output that we cause and can control. Carbon Neutral doesn't even factor in the air we exhale.

      However in a million years, when all our politics have been forgotten and our technology at best would be lumped together into advancements of a few thousand years, but more likely forgotten. If there is still intelligent life on earth, and the geologist look at our past, they will probably expect that our time peri

    • Volcanoes are already carbon neutral. That's why CO2 was just going up and up in the last million years.

    • Kilauea is helping reduce Hawaii's carbon footprint. Human-related energy consumption has drastically declined in Leilani, Kapoho, Vacationland...

    • So just how are they going to offset that???

      Lawmakers in Hawaii don't care how they're going to offset that. 2045. The lawmakers who passed that law will be retired by then. It's someone else's problem.

    • I believe that volcanos also emit SO2, which tends to promote high altitude clouds, which reflect sunlight causing cooling. Volcanos are more likely to cause global cooling than global warming. Maybe Hawaii is responsible for our cold spring ;-(
    • by elrous0 ( 869638 )

      So just how are they going to offset that???

      They're going to plug all the volcanoes and hope they don't anger Kahapuahpuah, the Polynesian god of lava and cheap hotel fares.

  • Puerto Rico needs to replace all the island infrastructure with this right now, forget 2045.
      • Where are they getting the power to charge the batteries?
        • by Rei ( 128717 )

          Puerto Rico lost a lot of generating power, but they lost even more distribution capacity. Much of their power was left in excess but stranded. The power is also in poor condition in terms of voltage, frequency regulation, and general reliability.

          That said, Tesla also does solar.

    • I agree. This should apply to all island civilization where your primary energy sources is not native. Should a World War breakout, you would be the least of everyone's concern unless there was a military strategic interest. Not having a flow of supplies would screw everyone living there. Purely out of national security of the island, all energy should be renewable.

    • It would be possible; Puerto Rico is far enough south that it could use solar energy for many of its needs right now. What is needed is funding and political will.
  • It won't ever work!

    • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:32AM (#56730350)

      So far it seems to work better then Carbon Neutral by Free Market.

      • Carbon neutral by free market works. Carbon neutral by free market + lawsuits against constructing nuclear plants doesn't work.
    • It won't ever work!

      You think your puny mere natural laws can stand against the power of our government laws?? Bwa ha ha!

    • It won't ever work!

      Quite the contrary, it will work. To support my statement I have historical example of dealing with the ozone whole. People holding decision power were clever enough to listen to scientists fortunately and now the whole is shrinking.

      It is tough, but people in general are clever if only an issue is not politicized so people have access to the facts. Event (!) in the US, polls shows 64% population concerned about this issue. Global warming is not a problem of our kids, it is happening now, and the predicted

      • by tsa ( 15680 )

        Great example, except it's hole, not whole. And I'm also convinced that we can pull it off. It will take sacrifices though, like not being able to fly to the other side of the planet for absurdly low prices. Wind turbines everywhere. But when the revolution is over we will look back and think: "How could we be so stupid?"

    • This is Hawaii. They are an island with no coal, oil, or natural gas reserved. Everything comes in by boat. Barrier to entry is really the only reason renewables aren't preferred.

      All the energy providers in the state need is a nudge or subtle threat against their future to move a little faster in diversifying.

      • Barrier to entry is really the only reason renewables aren't preferred.

        No, lack of acreage is really the only reason renewables aren't preferred. Admittedly, they're getting some free new acreage right now, but that probably isn't going to continue long enough....

    • It's meaningless.

      Any future law automatically supersedes existing law. So they're making themselves look good, without actually imposing any immediate changes.

      When the time for real change comes along, if it turns out to be too expensive, the then legislators will be on the hook for changing things (including taxes) that the current legislators carefully skipped in the process of writing a bill to make themselves look good without actually doing anything.

  • Volcanos (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:09AM (#56730240)

    Given the volcanic activity on Hawaii I can't imagine it ever being carbon neutral.

  • This is going to be a difficult, uphill battle for Hawaii given their recent growth in production of locally sourced, volcanic S(O2)...
    • Especially since battery density has a hard ceiling dictated by the laws of chemistry and physics. An electric jumbo jet is never going to happen. Fuel is stored in aircraft wings with a very large surface area, so hydrogen jumbo jet is never going to happen.
      • by Ichijo ( 607641 )

        An electric jumbo jet is never going to happen.

        Then how about an electromagnetic catapult-assist jumbo glider? Shoot it up along the side of a tall mountain (ok a VERY tall mountain) into low earth orbit and then it falls back into the atmosphere and glides to its destination.

    • This is going to be a difficult, uphill battle for Hawaii given their recent growth in production of locally sourced, volcanic S(O2)...

      Funny, I don't see any carbon in that chemical formula.

  • by Junta ( 36770 ) on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:38AM (#56730380)

    No one who passed it will be in office in 2045. As such, they don't own ultimate accountability for actually making it happen, but they can pat themselves on the back for 'driving it to happen'.

    Reminds me of when IBM CEO declared a certain crazy fiscal target for 5 years out, and immediately retired so it would be someone else's fault the target was not feasible.

    • by eepok ( 545733 )

      I both appreciate and hate these types of laws. I work in an industry where it's my job to help the State of California attain the goals set forth by 2006 California Assembly Bill 32 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming_Solutions_Act_of_2006). The crux of the bill is that the State (in the form of its own agencies and in the form of all businesses/organizations with 500+ employees) has to go back to 1990 levels of greenhouse gas emissions by 2020. Note that it's not "per capita"... it's raw emissio

      • In 1990, California had 29.81 million residents. In 2017, it had 39.54 million. In other words, we have to have made enough efficiencies by 2020 so that 39.54 million emit no more GHG than 29.81 million.

        I have an idea that might help. Ban the use of refried beans on taco trucks. That should cut down on a lot of carbon dioxide & methane emissions!

      • by Junta ( 36770 )

        It is a tricky situation. If your intentions are genuine, a timeline for which you could be held reasonably accountable is unrealistic.

        However a realistic timeline takes burden of accountability away, and then insincere politicians have an opportunity for some easy 'wins'.

      • These laws are a variation on the religious claim that the world is ending soon so rement...and give the priest money.

        This is just the secular politics/religion parallel.

  • 27 year deadline (Score:5, Insightful)

    by grasshoppa ( 657393 ) <skennedy@tpno-co.oLISPrg minus language> on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:41AM (#56730404) Homepage

    Any law which has a deadline so far in advance that no one who votes on it will be around to see it come to fruition is, pretty much by definition, "feel good legislation". ie: horseshit.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Yet we see many counter-examples of this.

      Kennedy couldn't have been in office by the end of the decade even if he hadn't been assassinated. He proposed a literal moon-shot and it happened.

      Germany proposed a massive change to its energy infrastructure and generation, with the initial legislation in 2010 and the expected end date around 2024. Merkel may still be in power but could hardly count on it, and many of those involved are already out.

      The Kyoto agreement, limited as it was, resulted in real changes an

      • by Tailhook ( 98486 )

        Yet we see many counter-examples of this.

        Yet we see many examples as well. California has been kicking the ZEV can for two decades; they re-revise it as each new deadline approaches and reality asserts itself.

        This new 2045 deal is essentially a can kicking maneuver for the 2008 Hawaii Clean Energy Initiative with an arbitrary 2030 deadline that has zero chance of being met.

        Hawaii generates a large fraction of it's electricity — 33% — with imported fuel oil, and over 85% of all energy with oil. Oil plus coal accounts for over 92%.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          California is leading the country in terms of EV ownership, right?

          • by Tailhook ( 98486 )

            California leads the nation in naive soy boys that cream themselves whenever some state passes another fatuous mandate. And yes, California has the largest number of mostly fossil fuel powered token EVs.

            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              Oh god, you aren't of those soy-brain-pill crackpots are you?

              Anyone who starts quoting Infowars and Paul Joseph Watson isn't doing their credibility any favours.

        • Why is geothermal less than 8%? Is there some quality of the landscape or magma that makes it unsuitable for geothermal, compared to Iceland?

      • Kennedy couldn't have been in office by the end of the decade even if he hadn't been assassinated. He proposed a literal moon-shot and it happened.

        Would it have happened if he had NOT been shot, though? That's the question. Even if he wanted to do so, would Congress have agreed with him enough to spend money hand-over-fist to do so?

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Any law which has a deadline so far in advance that no one who votes on it will be around to see it come to fruition is, pretty much by definition, "feel good legislation". ie: horseshit.

      And how long do you propose it takes?

      It's a long road to carbon neutrality, especially if you want to do it yourself without crippling your economy. You can cheat and buy carbon credits, but again, see the part about crippling the economy.

      The only alternative is you do it immediately, which given how deeply fossil fuels are

  • by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:47AM (#56730444)

    a second bill that will use carbon offsets to help fund planting trees throughout Hawaii

    I bet the recipients of the funds will be reading like a who's who of Hawaii's political donors.

    • carbon offsets are a scam, they are the stupid equivalent of buying medieval indulgences to get pass to sin.

      billions of euros of scam known about, plus even the "non-scams" are just mostly just funding things a venture capitalist wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

      bullshit, is what it is.

      the only proper and real solution is adopting alternative energy, and Hawaii is a fantastic place for at least 4 techs. Wind, solar, wave, geothermal....but no, the easy "wave of the pen" solution is done instead.

  • 2045? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Vitus Wagner ( 5911 ) <vitus@wagner.pp.ru> on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:04AM (#56730516) Homepage Journal

    It is almost 30 years in future.

    Hodja Nasreddin once offered Persian Shakh to teach his donkey speak and read in 30 years. Then he explained that either Shakh or donkey or Hodja himself would definitely die in 30 years, so he wouldn't be punished for breaking this promise.

    It seems that Hawaian lawmakers expect that either they will be dead or state would be submerged by 2045.

  • I mean yeah, isn't all you have to do is scale up your typical recreational drone to airplane size?

  • If Hawaii pays me $50 per day I promise not to fly to Hawaii. This will save a lot of carbon for them.
  • In a little less than three decades, Hawaii plans to be carbon neutral

    Tamerlane was looking [naqshbandi.ca] for someone to teach his donkey to talk. Nobody wanted the job. Finally the wise men of the dunes - Hodja Nasreddin [wikipedia.org] took the position and promised to teach the donkey to talk in 10 years time.
    - Are you crazy? — his friends asked him.
    - Not really, — Hodja answered, — the money is good, the job is not hard, and in 10 years a lot might happen: I might die, or Tamerlane might die, or su

  • I have some other suggestions for laws. 1. Forbid bad weather on weekends 2. Eliminate bad manners in children 3. and so on.

  • Hawaii is, mostly, a sunny place. Yet on the Big Island, I see very few solar panels on buildings. In fact the only reference I've seen anytime recently was some dude in the houses near the current eruption who said "I got my solar panels and batteries out, phew, saved $4000 of gear". If Hawaii is serious about reducing CO2 emissions, every house should have solar cells and many should have large storage batteries too.

    The mostly fossil fuel-generated electricity is expensive (most expensive in the USA) so e

"Paul Lynde to block..." -- a contestant on "Hollywood Squares"

Working...