In This Economy, Quitters Are Winning (wsj.com) 307
An anonymous reader shares a report: Workers are choosing to leave their jobs at the fastest rate since the internet boom 17 years ago and getting rewarded for it with bigger paychecks and/or more satisfying work. Labor Department data show that 3.4 million Americans quit their jobs in April, near a 2001 peak and twice the 1.7 million who were laid off from jobs in April. Job-hopping is happening across industries including retail, food service and construction, a sign of broad-based labor-market dynamism. Workers have been made more confident by a strong economy and historically low unemployment, at 3.8% in May, the lowest since 2000. Ms. Enoch started getting interview opportunities the same day she began sending out applications online. The trend could stoke broader wage growth and improve worker productivity, which have been sluggish in the past decade. Workers tend to get their biggest wage increases when they move from one job to another. Job-switchers saw roughly 30% larger annual pay increases in May than those who stayed put over the past 12 months, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta.
Not really news... (Score:5, Insightful)
American companies are known for exploiting their employees, treating them like shit, paying them as low as they can, and firing them as soon as they can. I, for a change, have job that I'm unlikely to leave any time soon. Why? Because they're paying me a very good salary, and they're treating me very well. They see the human part in their employees, unlike Americans who see their employees as disposable machines. I don't work in the USA, but I used to work for 2 American companies. Now I work for a Scandinavian company, and I love it.
Re:Not really news... (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe you got lucky, but paying you very well is not the Scandinavian model. They pay everyone moderately well, try to make it a nice place to work and give you a good work-life balance and hope you don't throw it all away chasing a few more dollars. If you really want to maximize your salary you probably need to do some job hopping here too but it doesn't have nearly the same benefit, like the CEO is often paid 2-5x that of a regular employee and everyone else is somewhere in between.
Re:Not really news... (Score:5, Funny)
They pay everyone moderately well, try to make it a nice place to work and give you a good work-life balance and hope you don't throw it all away chasing a few more dollars.
Maybe we should send over some troops to these shithole countries, to liberate what will most certainly be a grateful populace from this horrible socialist dystopia.
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I'm happy with enough money to be comfortable if the job is interesting and the working conditions are good. My goal is to be happy and fulfilled, not rich.
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Beyond a certain dolla
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Maybe you got lucky, but paying you very well is not the Scandinavian model. They pay everyone moderately well, try to make it a nice place to work and give you a good work-life balance and hope you don't throw it all away chasing a few more dollars. If you really want to maximize your salary you probably need to do some job hopping here too but it doesn't have nearly the same benefit, like the CEO is often paid 2-5x that of a regular employee and everyone else is somewhere in between.
I didn't write that it was a top salary in my profession. But it's above average. I could easily get 20% more somewhere else. But the work quality would be twice worse, so it's not worth it for me.
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You were rich enough to survive for a decade without income and then you launched a business.
Fuck man that must have been hard, most of the military has it harder than this:
No time off, no vacations, constant stress, constant pressure, no matter what you are feeling or how your health is doing, no matter what it does to your personal life (hint - there is no life, it is all just functioning, not living).
and they make peanuts. Fuck man you lived the life of a single mom for a minute someone needs to give you a trophy!
You're upset because you were born into opportunity and had to do the sorts of things any normal poor person puts up with when they launch their careers.
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Because they are not, and are talking out their arse?
If they were really making 100-500x the normal salary, they would:
a) not be posting on slashdot
b) actually realize that running a company and owning a company are very different things.
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I believe the metric was based on average and not median salary, and the CEOs were closer to 6-8x from what I know; I don't have data for other tiers.
Even 20x isn't the end of the world, but 50x gets to be pretty absurd for all but a superstar.
All bosses are the same ... (Score:5, Informative)
American companies are known for exploiting their employees, treating them like shit
In Japan, many Japanese workers work to death.
Same thing happens in Korea, Taiwan and China.
In Bangladesh, workers are routinely locked inside the building they work in and many had been burned to death when fire broke out.
In India, employers have been known to beat their workers to death.
If you are thinking that only American companies treating their employees like shit, please wake the fuck up and smell the coffee.
All companies are alike. To the bosses, their workers are slaves , to be worked to death, without pity.
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As someone who ( living in the U.S.A) and having only worked for american companies. I'd say 'your mileage may very'. I' I've worked for some companies that are exactly as you described, and other that are not. However, I would say that if a company is large enough to have footprint overseas they are more likely to fit the category you describe. A lot of that has to do with the stock market. If a company is public, it is controlled by it's stockholder, many american companies are held primarily by fund
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Your knowledge of America is lacking of course...
You're a good slave A/C. Good slave.
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Your knowledge of America is lacking of course. We get paid far better than you Eurotrash, but we don't get two months off a year like you to fuck off instead of working. It's why America is competitive and strong, and the rest of the world a bunch of whiners and losers. But please do keep your illusions. It makes kicking your asses so much more satisfying.
Yeah, America is so strong that it has the biggest demand for antidepressants and psychotherapists in the whole world. That really shows a thing about american way of life - rat race, fake smile, fake quality of life. Please do keep _your_ illusions.
And don't get me wrong, I don't want to change your way of life if you like it so much. The problem with it will solve itself when you work yourself to death.
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You sound like you think it is great you're being worked to death and that you have to sacrifice your family life on the altar of your career.
It's true, you may earn more, depending on where you live. But by the time you are done paying for good health insurance, a good dental plan, and subtract all the co-pay you still have to pay... and then deduct cost of living... you probably have left the same as us. Minus the family life of course.
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You gave you straw man "can only harm the economy" a shellacking it will never forget.
But real people are skeptical for good reasons. A little trade war is vastly more likely to cause harm in both the short and medium terms overall, and the theoretical advantages over the long term could easily fail to ever measurably materialize other than is some small economic silos whose gains will be outweighed by the negatives.
As for the economy, a lot of people woke up in January 2017 to discover the economy was pre
Churn is good (Score:2)
Locations with high levels of job hopping tend to be more productive and prosperous than locations with more stability. Job hoppers spread ideas. Freedom to quit and freedom to fire mean that unproductive and unhappy people are more likely to go where they are a better fit.
Churn is good.
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Locations with high levels of job hopping tend to be more productive and prosperous than locations with more stability.
Because everyone having to learn how the company works is not at all a productivity drain. Also, training is free.
Another garbage piece from WSJ (Score:5, Interesting)
Welcone to the gig economy. (Score:5, Insightful)
A gig is short term. A stepping stone. You don't stand for long on any individual stepping stone. Great upside in a rising economy, with a potential downside when the economy falters. There's still a trade of benefits. That part doesn't change.
Both can be called careers. That's the personal development side. Beware however, employees and employers both. You reap what you sow.
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A job is something you stay at.
Isn't that called a Hotel?
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You reap what you sow.
Unless you have a golden parachute.
[Wenn du keinen goldenen Fallschrimm hast.]
Another angle (Score:2)
Healthcare (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yeah, but a rising tide does not help if the boats are not seaworthy.
Yes, it still does. 325 million boats of various shapes and sizes, a rising tide will lift more boats than lowering it.
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We're plenty sea worthy. It's just all the spoils are going to the top 1%. I'd say it's high time for mutiny.
Sounds good, who's going first?
Re:The US economy's doing just fine (Score:4, Funny)
"Sounds good, who's going first?"
Yes.
And what's on second, I don't know's on third.
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Having it experienced Single Payer in Japan for 14 years, I would completely agree. It makes people not tied to their employers and provides more incentives to people starting their own ventures.
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Japan is the country that did it best, though - government insurance with private providers. I don't think the US is capable of pulling it off Japan-style because that would require looking at how someone else did it, and doing it the exact same way with no modifications. That means no handouts to existing insurance companies, no handouts to unions looking to run new government hospitals. Our government is incapable of solving a problem without scratching some backs, and that back scratching is why we ha
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I know dozens of people stuck at dead end jobs because they can't go 90-180 days w/o health care.
Pro-tip: find the next job before quitting your current one.
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I know dozens of people stuck at dead end jobs because they can't go 90-180 days w/o health care.
Pro-tip: find the next job before quitting your current one.
But wouldn't it better it you didn't have to? We're talking higher quality of life here, and one of those scenarios definitely sounds more preferable to the other.
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Super pro-tip: Many employers have a 90+ day waiting period for new employees before they are eligible for medical benefits.
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I've got to step in and make a comment here.... One of my best friends is a divorced mom with 3 kids who has struggled to make ends meet by working full-time and stretching the little bit of child support she gets. Occasionally, she still winds up having to beg her mom for a loan. A while ago, she took a job doing health and life insurance sales. After dealing with all of the people on medicare/medicaid, folks on Obamacare plans, and everything else? She's concluded that Americans' biggest problem with h
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We're already paying for coverage of the people you describe.
Your insurance company isn't taking your premiums and putting them in an account just for you. Instead, those premiums get paid out to sick people on all plans offered by that insurance company.
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Re: Healthcare (Score:2)
It is trivial to find articles and peer reviewed studies that show that the VA is of equivalent quality to hospitals that are not under a single payer system. Single payer systems exist all over the world and consistently cost less and provide better care on average than the current US system.
https://medicalxpress.com/news... [medicalxpress.com]
https://link.springer.com/arti... [springer.com]
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> The VA is terrible.
The current alternative is nothing. Everyone with nothing, would love to have the terrible VA. At least they had a chance at life.
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> The VA is terrible.
The current alternative is nothing. Everyone with nothing, would love to have the terrible VA. At least they had a chance at life.
They can have the VA too. Everyone knows the requirements to join our dysfunctional club.
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I live in Canada and I call bullshit on your assertion. Universal healthcare is great, but not free. We pay close to 50% income taxes.
I don't live in Canada and I call bullshit on your assertion
This [www.cbc.ca] tells me that a top 10% income is about $80k, and a top 1% income is about $190k
This [simpletax.ca] tells me that income tax on $80k is around 25-30% depending on state, and on $190k it's 34-40%.
If you're paying close to 50% income tax, you already have a good salary so shouldn't complain too much.
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The GP said 'income tax'. This is demonstrably not the case. If it was 'total tax' then it might be a different argument.
As an example, assuming a couple with two typical jobs, in the UK on median wages your take home is about £1800 on a monthly wage of £2250, so income tax and national insurance of about £450. Add another £80 for property takes and you are at £530. Assume £200 for food (generally 0% VAT rated) and £50 for diesel/petrol (about 60% tax), and we are a
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Waiting 6 months for operation when it is critical to be done right now?
I live in the UK. My wife recently needed an urgent operation. She waited two days.
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(1) fails if you have something serious happen in those 90 to 180 days. You could trip over, badly break your leg and need surgery, and be $50k out of pocket.
(2) May or may not be allowable, and assumes that your spouse works for somewhere that has a health plan.
(3) is most likely leaving money on the table.
Perhaps an option would be saving up enough for option (4), which would be 6 months of additional insurance, plus deductables and copays, but that might not be cheap either.
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There's COBRA, they usually email you a nice juicy packet about it where you pay the full freight of what your former company was paying on your behalf to continue your insurance. Usually so expensive it's not worth it.
Leaving today (Score:3)
Short Term Thinking (Score:2)
You really need to look a bit beyond just the pay because, if you don't, you'll be job hopping again soon enough.
How long has the company been operating ?
Are they established and stable, or a startup ?
How much turnover does the company have ? Why ?
Benefits ? Insurance ? Retirement ?
Does it require travel ?
What's the cost of living where the company wants you to move ?
Telecommute a possibility ?
Starting at bottom seniority means getting stuck with hours you hate ?
How much personal / vacation / sick time th
In a post scarcity economy ... (Score:2)
... the ones who know stuff have the upper hand. The ones simply juggling money are very close to being replaced by robots. Closer than the cleaning lady and the burger flipper actually.
Lots of Smoke being blown here... (Score:2)
I really don't like farting smoke.
All things considered, it's still an employers' economy.
They set the wages, and there are still an excess of potential employees for each job. When the actual demand for employees exceeds the available pool of personnel, only then will you see a truly dynamic increase in wages and employer effort in employee retention.
Until then, it's smoke and mirrors.
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The last acquisition was by a company that hadn't given at least some staff pay rises for 8 years.
But... but...
Ms. Enoch started getting interview opportunities the same day she began sending out applications online.
Since our market metrics are now based on Ms. Enoch, I think you must be wrong..?
Also, not even a very desirable applicant is going to get same-day interviews. One would be lucky if their application/resume is reviewed from an online submission.
Re:What's a pay rise? (Score:4, Informative)
Also, not even a very desirable applicant is going to get same-day interviews. One would be lucky if their application/resume is reviewed from an online submission.
When I put my resume up on Indeed a month or so ago, I got multiple contacts within 24 hours, including cold calls from recruiters who somehow had my telephone number. I had a couple initial calls with hiring companies set up next day. Sure, no one is going to get an interview the same day, but it's at least possible they might get an interview arranged.
But as soon as you say "online submission" all is lost. I've never known anyone who got a call back from submitting their resume through a company web site. Perhaps it has happened somewhere in the world, but it must be quite rare. If your resume isn't attractive enough that recruiters reach out to you, that sucks. At least get some help prettying up your resume, and you may need to consider moving to where your job is hot. ("You" the generic Slashdot reader, not Mitreya specifically).
Online resume submission (Score:5, Informative)
When I put my resume up on Indeed a month or so ago, I got multiple contacts within 24 hours, including cold calls from recruiters who somehow had my telephone number.
That is great but that sort of response isn't the norm. In my line of work (manufacturing operations) such a vigorous response would be almost unheard of no matter how attractive your resume. I think this speaks more to industry and company culture than anything else but just posting your resume will rarely land you interviews that easily in my industry. Your mileage may vary of course. In my wife's line of work she gets calls out of the blue all the time because there simply aren't a lot of people who do what she does.
But as soon as you say "online submission" all is lost. I've never known anyone who got a call back from submitting their resume through a company web site. Perhaps it has happened somewhere in the world, but it must be quite rare.
There is a reason for that. It's because the HR folks get absolute bombarded with resumes so the odds you you actually getting a response unless you are EXACTLY what they are looking for is a good approximation of zero if the company has any size to it at all. Big companies are doing keyword searches and throwing out 99% of the resumes they actually do read. Chances are you'll get at most 30-60 seconds of consideration if you are lucky and the odds of a response are ridiculously low. Those systems are set up to weed out resumes and ward off lawsuits than they are to actually setting up interviews. You are quite right that getting a response that way will be quite unusual.
If your resume isn't attractive enough that recruiters reach out to you, that sucks.
The vast majority of people fall into that category.
At least get some help prettying up your resume, and you may need to consider moving to where your job is hot.
Sometimes it doesn't matter how "pretty" your resume is. And people often cannot move for a variety of good reasons.
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You need to talk to a recruiter in your area. They should have a list of both contract and full-time positions that local companies are trying to fill.
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What discipline? Surprising, to say the least.
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Re:Fake news. Under Trump... (Score:4, Insightful)
Having income growth levels of 3.25% vs 2.5% (30% more) while the rich double and triple their income doesn't solve the problem.
Our issue is not what any other country is taking from us and not what the government is taking from us. Those are just distractions thrown at us by the people getting rich off of the real issue.
Our issue is the larger and larger piece of the pie going to the few while the lower income bracket has steadily grown since 1980ish. We are no longer the country of opportunity for all. Many others have higher percentage chances for people to move up from the income bracket they were born in than America today.
We need a change that restores respect to real work. The hardest workers in America typically get paid the least, and that is not right. The growth in the service industry only exacerbates the problem. People don't respect those mowing the grass or changing their oil when they have never, even in their childhood, gotten off of their fat asses and mowed their own grass or changed their own oil.
The most critical aspect of the days when America was allegedly great is that the typical upper-level executive in a company made about 300% more than the lowest worker on the factory floor - not 3,000% or more.
Re: Fake news. Under Trump... (Score:3, Interesting)
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It doesn't need to be anything that complicated. Just pull up a chart showing increases in wages and increases in productivity from, say, 1950 to now. They used to track rather closely. They became completely decoupled in the late 1970s.
We are producing far more while being paid the same as the 1970s. That's not how it's supposed to work.
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Here's a nice chart [epi.org] explaining how income inequality was both solved and created. In the 20's/30's we had enormous income inequality -- even worse than today -- but workers organized, fought, died and voted together for their rights. As a results, union membership expands in the 40's,50's and income inequality goes down. Reagan -- who's first election win was as president of a labor union [archive.org] ironically -- dismantled unions and demonized them. Membership goes down, inequality goes up.
None of this, of course, e
Re: Fake news. Under Trump... (Score:2, Informative)
I have bled brakes, changed oil, changed head gaskets, moved a lawn, planted and picked strawberries, raspberries, bunch of other fruits and veggies, prepared jams, marmalade and compotes. Made (and still make) my own cheese, yogurt, soap.
I know exactly the time and effort involved in these jobs - it is practically none. Why do you expect me to respect someone who takes 3 times as much time as needed, who does subpar job that I later have to redo? I don't complain because if the management doesn't see a pro
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Part of the problem is that as a society we are getting to the stage where this so-called "real work" is being repla
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> Creating jobs for the sake of jobs is a horrible reason. Basic income.
Let me complete that last sentence: "Basic income ... can never work."
Dont push for a doomsday policy that can only end in disaster.
Jobs will take care of themselves. Neo luddism is lame, uneducated, and dangerous.
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We need a change that restores respect to real work. The hardest workers in America typically get paid the least, and that is not right. The growth in the service industry only exacerbates the problem.
How do you suggest we accomplish that? Do you look for the most expensive oil change place, the most expensive grocery store, the most expensive child care?
People don't respect those mowing the grass or changing their oil when they have never, even in their childhood, gotten off of their fat asses and mowed their own grass or changed their own oil.
So you are proposing .... mandatory lawn mowing in schools?
Or just that we get off your lawn?
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So you are proposing .... mandatory lawn mowing in schools?
Seems to be working very well for schools in Japan. Most of them have no janitors, as students are the ones performing that work.
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Chances are, that's not the choice I'd be faced with, though. Most people would deal with companies having more than one employee, and the customer would have no knowledge of the immigration status of those employees.
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This is called a "straw fire". Impressive, but only for a short time and afterwards you just have ashes. The stupid fall for it every time though.
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Unemployment is not down, more people have simply dropped off the tracking. If people give up and become homeless they are no longer counted on the u6, let alone the u2 unemployment index. Every president tells the same lies, and the media lets them all get away with it. I don't fully understand why, but I presume it has to do with the difficulty of explaining unemployment statistics to the public. The underemployed, those going further and further into debt and/or skipping medical care which causes eventua
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Considering the tax liability for people at low incomes is around 3000-5000, just the mandate alone being gone is anywhere from 1/3 to 1/5 saving on their overall tax liability for the whole year.
Selling out the future, fantastic. These people are just not going to have health care, and then we can all pay for it. Except, since we're not getting national health, we'll all overpay for it.
It's not the economy. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's you.
Try not being you. It might help.
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No, it's probably your personality, from the way you quickly went to cursing and blaming everyone else... but you.
Re:It's not the economy. (Score:5, Insightful)
You should blame yourself for being tedious. Being skilled doesn't mean much if you're a tedious human being nobody wants to work with.
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You should get a life coach or something bro. I watched some videos called "powerful speaking" that might offer you some guidelines that keep you from engaging in some offensive habits. If you're so much smarter than everyone else and these soft skills are as overvalued as you believe then developing them enough to get a good career should be easy.
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You should blame your self for not even linking to your website, where you describe the languages you know, and how to contact you.
I know several companies looking for software developers, which are desperate enough to even accept a remote worker, if you have any experience with either Android development(Or just java), or Php/Sql*.
*Yes Php is the true wft, but even legacy systems need to be maintained sometimes.
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I can't speak for anyone else but my last remote position was at $65/hr.
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interesting, I fit almost exactly that profile.I have never in my life spent more then 6 months out of work since college, even my longest stint was partially voluntary. Now, mind you, I've always been willing to move wherever the work was and work for whatever was median 'going wage' for my skill set even if it meant taking a pay cut. I also don't hold myself is such high esteem as to think I'm better then any else or somehow 'deserve' something. ( not saying you do , but one could imply it from your wr
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Thanks for insulting my appearance, sight unseen. I don't know why I bother to bathe every day and wear clean clothes. Thanks for insulting my skills too. I don't know why I bother to continue work on unpaid personal coding projects to keep my skills up.
I'm always irrationally optimistic during interviews. It's irrational to assume any interview will be different from every other interview. After all, every employed person is SHIT LIKE YOU, and SHIT LIKE YOU is never hiring.
The absolute worst part of being an open source coder is I'm not compensated when undeserving SHIT LIKE YOU take my hard work and use it for your own benefit.
Have you considered that I'm bitter because of SHIT LIKE YOU who are constantly lying about the existence of jobs that don't exist?
Now how about you go fuck yourself and die in a fire?
If you come across in interviews even half as bad as you do here it's no wonder no one would hire you. If your skills are so shit hot work for yourself. Flood the appstore with useless crap and rake it in that way.
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This is the sentiment of a typical bigot. A bigot is someone who takes a whole category of people as a blanket statement and judges them unworthy.
There are some wealthy people who fall squarely into your category, there are some who very much earned every penny they have honestly and there is a whole range in between like. Inherited some wealth then used it. Do you really think every singer songwriter out there who becomes a mega star is a thief?
What about the person who wins the lottery then invest wisel
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Do you really think every singer songwriter out there who becomes a mega star is a thief?
Pretty much, for the last 15 years at least.
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How about instead of a typical minimum wage, there is a law that requires some kind of profit , ( and risk ) sharing with employees.
You don't think employees are shouldering any risk in our current system?
You realize every employee is basically giving the company a loan every day. The company pays it back afew weeks later.
Our current tax and company structures take no account of the value labor imparts, they only value capital.
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Re:Fake news. Under Trump... (Score:5, Insightful)
The economy is actually quite strong. And it was strong for the past 6 years.
However policy is still treating it like it is in a recession and not investing into safety nets for when it drops again.
Also we are starting trade wars for no real good reason. Which the countries are responding in a more targeted attack that may not hurt the entire economy as much but the states that unwisely voted for trump.
Any country cannot fight off the entire US economy, but they can hit particular states rather hard.
They know targeting the Tech sector will mostly effect people who mostly voted for Clinton. But agriculture, Automotive... that will get the area which would hurt the idiot who started the trade war in the first place.
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We lost refining and forging capacity because the companies decided not to keep up and improve. Other countries had made a competitive product and these companies just relied on Made in the USA as their only selling point.
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It actually only applies to those people whose skills are in the industry we are in, because of industry consolidation there are two employers, so those people have limited choices.
Those of us who have transferable skills (I work in IT) have been able to negotiate more. I asked for and received 10% this year, and will be asking for the same next year.
Our Warehouse manager asked for 25% and was turned down, so he
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There is not much our American overlords can do about wage inflation in this country.
If you look at median wage growth, though, it's pretty weak - not much wage inflation. In a tight employment market (4% unemployment), and a period of GDP growth, you'd expect more wage inflation.
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If you look at median wage growth, though, it's pretty weak - not much wage inflation. In a tight employment market (4% unemployment), and a period of GDP growth, you'd expect more wage inflation.
"The current U6 unemployment rate as of May 2018 is 7.60. [macrotrends.net]" And let's face it, even that is a lie. The actual unemployment rate is somewhere between the U6 rate and the inverse of the labor participation rate [tradingeconomics.com], which is currently 37.3 — the participation rate currently being 62.7%.
Stop repeating this nonsense about 4% unemployment. It is a total falsehood.
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Who am I kitting, the history books will be written by the descendants of the rich, the rest of the people will mostly be erased from it.
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Yeah, because if you say otherwise you'll be sent to the gulag.
Except that the real Gulag was built by the people opposed to capitalism.
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The thing they have in common is that they are using the system to benefit themselves, and punishing people who try to change the system to be fairer to the majority. Right/left, capitalist/communist, those are just the means that worked for them at the time.
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The thing they have in common is that they are using the system to benefit themselves, and punishing people who try to change the system to be fairer to the majority. Right/left, capitalist/communist, those are just the means that worked for them at the time.
Under capitalism, the rich become powerful.
Under socialism, the powerful become rich.
As you say, the top ends up looking the same either way. The problem is corruption, and humanity hasn't found the solution yet.