Chan Zuckerberg Initiative Claims It Has Enabled Its Partners To 'Double the Number of Black and Latinx Students and Girls Taking AP Computer Science' (chanzuckerberg.com) 251
theodp writes: In a Monday blog post, the outgoing Head of Education for Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg's Chan Zuckerberg Initiative made the claim that "we've made investments that enabled our partners to double the number of Black and Latinx students and girls taking AP Computer Science." The claim is an apparent reference to the highly-promoted and wildly-successful new AP Computer Science Principles course (dubbed "Coding Lite" by the NY Times), which the NSF and College Board began development on in 2009. Zuckerberg's CZI LLC was created in late 2015.
how many in total? (Score:5, Funny)
Who knew? (Score:3, Informative)
The term is a political neologism that has gained traction among advocacy groups combining racial and gender identity politics.
Re:Who knew? (Score:5, Funny)
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No matter how many times you stab systemd it just respawns.
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Latinx [wikipedia.org] is a real word.
The term is a political neologism that has gained traction among advocacy groups combining racial and gender identity politics.
In other words, its a xenaphobic term, trying to suggest that gendered languages are inferior to the true Americanish with it's pure gender neutrality. These people are sick.
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Is it trying to suggest that gendered languages are inferior... or trying to use a shorter and less confusing term than the fairly common 'latino/a' label? Or do you prefer the more verbose "latino/latina" or "latino & latina". God help you if you are ever participant as to which order they should be in.
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How about the term is dropped in it's entirety, it is pretty derogatory, just dumping entirely different people into the same group, what does it even mean. It's like trying to fix wog, dago or spic, WTF?
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How about the term is dropped in it's entirety, it is pretty derogatory, just dumping entirely different people into the same group, what does it even mean. It's like trying to fix wog, dago or spic, WTF?
I think the rule is that if a group chooses to apply a term to itself, it's not derogatory.
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You should be careful searching for, umm, entertainment on the intarwebs, then.
You might get more (or less) than you bargained for.
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I had no idea that latina was even a word.
Someone's not been looking at the various categories on their favourite porn site have they?
Re:Who knew? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's frightened of a fairly meaty woman in a leather dress who chucks a razor-sharp frisbee around?
I forget who said it (probably Ben Franklin back when usenet was a thing), but you should never use a word in writing that you've only heard in speech.
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So... being pedantic for a moment... what's the proposed plural of "Latinx"?
* Latinxen?
* Latinxi?
* Latinxes?
Latinxi sounds vaguely sophisticated... but also sounds kind of insultingly clinical.
Latinxes is probably the most consistent with American English usage (think, "viri-vs-viruses"), but just looks kind of... ugly. It makes me intuitively want to pronounce it as "la-tin-EX-es", even though I know I'd eventually lean towards "la-TIN-zees".
Latinxes and Latinxen are both problematic in another way... Cuba
Obviously.. (Score:2)
it is las latinx or los latinx, depending on if its a group or males or females ;);)
Re:Who knew? (Score:4, Interesting)
Bad example. German is completely bonkers with its articles. The table is male, the milk is female, so "The girl puts the milk on the table" is literally "it puts her on him" in German.
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Bad example. German is completely bonkers with its articles. The table is male, the milk is female, so "The girl puts the milk on the table" is literally "it puts her on him" in German.
English is the odd one out here. Almost all the languages in the world have gender nouns. Yes, there are exceptions, English, Hungarian, (I think) Japanese etc..
It's not necessarily the genders that makes German a pain to learn- it's the grammar associated with those genders in each of German's many cases.
Re:Who knew? (Score:5, Insightful)
English is the odd one out here. Almost all the languages in the world have gender nouns.
This is why I get pissed when I see people ranting and raving against what few gendered terms might exist in English discourse. They should be lucky to speak a language that actually has gender-neutral nouns and pronouns.
Just imagine if these people learned about other languages.
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This is why I get pissed when I see people ranting and raving against what few gendered terms might exist in English discourse. They should be lucky to speak a language that actually has gender-neutral nouns and pronouns.
I must be super lucky for speaking a language where all pronouns are gender-neutral, including the equivalent of "he" or "she". Finnish has only one "hän" that applies to any gender.
(From this perspective, it's interesting how "he" and "she" are also used as kind of nouns "It's a she" or adjectives "He-man". These get silly when translated to Finnish word by word.)
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Being a SJW in Finland must suck, you can't try to invent a new gender neutral language because it's already there...
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Germans are pragmatic. Instead of trying to change the language and pretend they change the condition, they'd rather just change the condition. I.e. instead of creating gendered language and making certain "hurtful" words a nono, they simply made gay marriage and third genders a legal fact.
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No idea if you're on about German, but in German "the stallion" == "der Hengst", which is as male as it gets (unless you're talking about a different meaning of "stallion" that evades me).
Greek is also quite interesting in this regard, both "the boy" ("to agori") and "the girl" ("to koritsi") are neutral gender ("to") in this language.
All the best, Uwe
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I have trouble with the concept. I know most European languages have it, but it seems strange assigning gender to inanimate objects.
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I have trouble with the concept. I know most European languages have it, but it seems strange assigning gender to inanimate objects.
I agree... What is amazing is how the concept is so global. Europe- Asia- Africa... gender is in language everywhere. It would be one thing if it was just one language family- you'd think it's just a quirk of that language, but it's everywhere.
It probably says something about the human brain... I'm not sure what- but probably says something.
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Not in Chinese though, the most popular first language on earth. Or Japanese for that matter.
I wouldn't read too much into it.
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Making a language the "most popular" one because it out-bred everyone isn't saying much. Languages have a history and make a development, even an evolution if you so will, they have roots and they split up and form family trees. English is part of the Germanic language family, along with Swedish, Danish, German, Dutch and a few others. Originally they all had three grammatical genders, but some had rather interesting changes during time. Swedish for example merged male and female genders.
I wonder if anyone
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This is maybe the reason why there is way less talk about a "gendered" language around these parts. Grammatical gender has way less connection to sexual gender. in those languages.
Defeat from the jaws of victory (Score:2)
It's rather shocking that they found the solution to the error French, Italian and various other types of Dagoese and Woppish have - assigning gender to things that don't piss at all, standing up or sitting down - and then implemented it wrongly.
Frankly it's no wonder they lost, twice.
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Bingo!
Europeans are far less concerned with political correctness when it comes to language. They want to look the part. In German the word for girl, das Mädchen, is neutral... meaning girls are literally an "it," while boys, der Junge, are masculine "him." What a world... the PC crowd would have a lot of work reforming German... don't get me started with French!
That's because it ends in "-chen" a diminutive. Gender in German on a compound word is always based on the last part of the compound rule. A diminutive of anything is a "das".
If you referred to a boy as a Jungchen it would ALSO be neuter. Das Jungchen.
Re:Who knew? (Score:4, Informative)
That's because it ends in "-chen" a diminutive. Gender in German on a compound word is always based on the last part of the compound rule. A diminutive of anything is a "das".
If you referred to a boy as a Jungchen it would ALSO be neuter. Das Jungchen.
Just to follow up if anyone is curious: Mädchen is formed by joining Magd (Maid, a feminine noun) with "chen" (a generic diminutive ending that is neuter).
And you can join Junge (boy masculine) with chen (neuter) to form the word Jungchen which is neuter in exactly the same way that Mädchen is.
So... no sexism here.
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Actually, both das and die are correct for madchen. The difference is singular vs. plural.
Latin[ao] (Score:5, Funny)
If they can't understand a simple regex then they don't have a hope in CS. Perhaps they could become narrative diversity therapists [twitter.com] or something.
Re:Who knew? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have lived all my life in Spain, so obviously Spanish is my mother language, and I'm seriously tired of all the idiots who try to promote this supposedly "gender neutral" language, ending words in -@, -x or -os/as. The first two are unpronunceable, the last one is way too cumbersome. I wish they would stop butchering our language.
Re:Who knew? (Score:5, Funny)
I have lived all my life in Spain, so obviously Spanish is my mother language, and I'm seriously tired of all the idiots who try to promote this supposedly "gender neutral" language, ending words in -@, -x or -os/as. The first two are unpronunceable, the last one is way too cumbersome. I wish they would stop butchering our language.
If you can convince media personalities in the US from breaking into hyper exaggerated, ultra accented Spanish pronunciation of Spanish names while reporting otherwise in an American accent, we have a deal.
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That's not confined to the US and it's nothing new. I remember comedians in the UK taking the piss out of newsreaders back in the 80s.
I think Jan Leeming was the main target. Robert MOOgahBAY and former guayREEEEEEEyas or something.
Re:Who knew? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have lived all my life in Spain, so obviously Spanish is my mother language, and I'm seriously tired of all the idiots who try to promote this supposedly "gender neutral" language, ending words in -@, -x or -os/as. The first two are unpronunceable, the last one is way too cumbersome. I wish they would stop butchering our language.
It's funny how many things are considered offensive "on behalf of another group of people" when that group of people weren't offended in the first place.
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Is it offensive or just shorthand to avoid having to say/write "Lanina/Lantino" every single time?
What is the word for someone who sees offence everywhere? Not themselves offended as such, just assuming everyone else is motivated by offence.
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Re:Who knew? (Score:4, Informative)
Is it offensive or just shorthand to avoid having to say/write "Lanina/Lantino" every single time?
What is the word for someone who sees offence everywhere? Not themselves offended as such, just assuming everyone else is motivated by offence.
The solution already exists in Spanish. Use the masculine pronoun for a mixed gender or gender non specific, Latinos would be correct in Spanish. In English you could also use Latin or Latin people as gender non-specific.
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Is the Royal Spanish Academy powerless to stop this?
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Is the Royal Spanish Academy powerless to stop this?
The Spanish Inquisition would make quick work of it
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The Patriarchy (Score:3, Interesting)
They just need a good dose of Jordan Peterson.
He totally debunks the lefts idea that the lack of black/female students in stem is because of the white patriarchy by showing a high correlation between countries that are highly egalitarian (such as the Nordic countries) and those that are not (such as India) showing the STEM ratio of men to women get WORSE when females are given more free choice.
The whole SJW, patriarchy thing is being driven by far left ideologues who don't really want to help the people the
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Latinx [wikipedia.org] is a real word.
No, not really. Anything you use is technically a "real word" but this one has yet to be added to any serious dictionary. [merriam-webster.com]
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It would have been easier just to omit the x.
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Great (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with people of any gender or cultural background learning about computer science, taking AP classes, or working in tech. However, given what we know about the tech industry and the love of low cost labor, what is the true motivation behind such an initiative?
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what is the true motivation behind such an initiative?
Life is not zero-sum. This can benefit both corporations and the students, and likely will.
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To fill jobs that need skilled experts with workers based on demographics rather than merit.
That allows a skills shortage to become a legal reality.
People who cant study, who wont study, who need constant support in their new "tech" job.
The only fix for that is more low wage workers from outside the USA.
Bring in low wage workers from other nations to fill the need for experts.
Lowers wage costs for US brands.
A work force from outside the USA that has to keep work
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Re:Great (Score:5, Funny)
Like what? That OOP is inherently unfair because it uses classes?
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Like what? That OOP is inherently unfair because it uses classes?
Where's a mod point when you need one...
Re:Great (Score:5, Insightful)
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> Different points of view come from different experiences - and different skin color definitely leads to different experiences, as does sex.
It contributes far less than you think.
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Citation needed
Re: Great (Score:2)
Different points of view come from different experiences - and different skin color definitely leads to different experiences, as does sex.
Which set has the greater diversity of experiences:
Three white guys, one an upper class graduate of an ivy league school, one from an impoverished family in the hills of Kentucky with a GED, and one a middle class immigrant from Poland who graduated from a technical school.
Or
A white guy, a black woman, and a "gender fluid" hispanic, all from middle class families, all graduates of MIT?
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It might be a niche, but you'd want everyone to find their niche. So a bit of promotion isn't wrong.
Yay! Quotas!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Meanwhile, almost 2 out of 3 college students are female...
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But don't you dare suggest that maybe the womens college fund has served its purpose and should be abolished.
That would be sexist.
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Meanwhile, almost 2 out of 3 college students are female...
But by the time they get to college they're "women". I think this initiative that's hired girls is some kind of scheme to pay peanuts for child labor.
This is great (Score:5, Insightful)
Next, let's work on getting more men into nursing and teaching. Diversity is always good, right?
Right?
Hello?
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You laugh, but there are programs doing just that actually. You're just not in the profession and thus don't really know about it. Most professions generally have programs to increase diversity.
There are definitely programs to get more male elementary teachers in (male teachers are generally teaching later years to college). And I believe there are programs to get more male nurses in as well.
It's not
Re: This is great (Score:2)
There are definitely programs to get more male elementary teachers in (male teachers are generally teaching later years to college). And I believe there are programs to get more male nurses in as well.
No need for programs; the problem will fix itself if we just complain enough about toxic femininity.
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Way ahead of you. There have been lots of schemes to encourage more men to get into nursing, and lots of research to understand the problem.
Here are some overviews:
https://journals.lww.com/ajnon... [lww.com]
https://minoritynurse.com/more... [minoritynurse.com]
Same with teaching. It's particularly bad in primary level, where children need male role models. The BBC is a good starting point:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-... [bbc.co.uk]
And these guys if course:
http://www.malesinteaching.com... [malesinteaching.com]
Re:This is great (Score:5, Insightful)
If they want to get men in to teaching, maybe they need to work on removing some of the stigma that any man interested in children is immediately assumed a pedophile. I was in Manchester recently and saw a park with a sign that literally said men weren't allowed in to it without a child present.
I know I wouldn't ever go into primary school teaching even though I do legitimately have interest in it. In lower grades everybody assumes you're a pedophile and in higher grades if you piss a female student off she can make the claim you had an inappropriate relationship with her and that's enough to ruin the rest of your life, and likely land you in jail, no matter if the claim was true or not.
And to think there's people out there lobbying to always believe the accuser when a false accusation ruins the accused so completely.
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Stigma is literally the first thing in the BBC article, and mentioned on the front page of the other link.
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How about just letting smart people find their own pursuit of happiness.
Pass their exams on merit and have the freedom to find profession they want to do.
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Working with people ain't that much better. You know the old joke:
Person at 20: Oh, I want to work with people!
Person at 30: Ya know, rocks are pretty cool as well...
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I know keyboards can be gross, but they are infinitely better than bed pans.
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I'll take nursing. Working with computers sucks.
Computers are logical. People aren't, and I'm sure sick people are even worse.
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Once you open them up it's much like a computer, things don't fit in the wrong places and forcing it usually results in death. Occasionally you do get the "who the hell put this together".
The headline sounds sexist (Score:2)
This sounds like two groups can take AP Computer Science:
1. Black and Latinx Students
2. Girls
Aren't the girls part of the first group despite their gender?
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Even more interesting is if they are double counting a female black/latin student.
BFD (Score:2)
AP credit for a remedial course? (Score:2)
Sure many colleges have to teach their students computer basics (along with high school math and english).
I know of none that give the students credit for a remedial 'computer skills' class in pursuit of a CS or Engineering degree.
All these students are doing is avoiding having to take a basic computer skills course in pursuit of an underwater basket weaving degree.
If you want to keep girls interested in math and science, you have to do it the age they stop doing the work. That's basically at puberty
unlimited student loans let just about any one go (Score:2)
unlimited student loans let just about any one go to collage at no risk to the banks.
Good thoughts (Score:2)
I don't know why it has to be limited to Latins of gender and Blacks, but ANY effort that increases the number of students of any gender, or racial origin taking AP sciences and technology classes is a good thing in my mind. AP history and critical thinking increases would greatly benefit everyone as well. Education is a good thing however it is acquired.
In the UK, studying Computer Science gets harder (Score:2)
Race, gender, IQ, and occupation (Score:4, Interesting)
The average American has an IQ of 98. The average American with European or Asian ancestry has an IQ of 100. The average American of African or Hispanic ancestry has an IQ of 95. While males and females have the same average IQ the distribution of IQ among males is wider than that of females, which means more geniuses and more... not geniuses.
The average IQ of a person in a computer related field is 110. Someone doing software/computer/electrical engineering will be slightly higher at 115. Those that graduate with a degree in computer science, information science, and most engineering disciplines, will have an IQ around 125.
Statistically speaking the people with the intelligence to graduate in computer science and related fields will be predominately white or Asian, and male. Those with the intelligence to be successful in an occupation writing computer code will the predominately white or Asian, and male. Claiming to be able to double the number of Hispanic and Black students into computer science means, as best I can tell, one was able to increase their intelligence.
I guess the alternative is they found a way to handicap the competition for these classes. Colleges and universities have been handicapping white and Asian applicants to get more Black and Hispanic students. All they did was double the drop out rate of Black and Hispanic students at their schools. Affirmative action is not helping these people. Don't put people in classes and jobs for which they are unsuited, that's only displacing someone that might be better suited for that position.
We've effectively ended racism in the USA. That's not saying there are not any racist people in the USA, only that it's been made socially unacceptable and punishable under the law if used to keep people from jobs and services.
There is no easy answer for the disparity of women and minorities in STEM, because there is no easy answer to correct for the varied genetics in these populations we generally describe as races and genders. Genetics is a very large part of IQ. Maybe IQ is 50/50 genetics and things like nutrition and education. Maybe IQ is only 20% genetics. What portion of IQ that is genetics is not all that important, what is important is to realize that we can't just "fix" the uneven distribution of IQ over race and gender with better schools and better nutrition.
Trying to blame this on racism or sexism gets us nowhere but continued frustration on reality not fitting the fantasy people create for themselves.
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The bell curve still exists for blacks and latinos so there will still be plenty that will fit your distribution for CS... this is no where near accounting for disparity in actual enrollments.
If the IQ needed to get a degree in computer science is 120, where Hispanics have an average IQ of 95 and Whites an average of 100, then the distribution of people getting degrees will not match the general population. An average IQ of 100 in a population means 10% (or there about) of them are above 120. An average IQ of 95 in a population means 6% (roughly) of them are above 120. A quick search of stats on race in the general population, in computer science, and some back of the envelope math tells me t
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Of course they're going to be predominantly white. We're 62% of the nation. The next biggest group is "latinos" at 17% (why don't we call them native (central) americans? Probably the same reason we don't call Indians Asians even though they're in Asia). IQ averages aside, there's no way you're getting around that mass of people.
Asians not so much. At 5%, if you have a college tech class that's predominantly asian, there's further sociological factors at play. Namely, WE HAVE A WORLD-CLASS UNIVERSITY SYST
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Of course they're going to be predominantly white. We're 62% of the nation.
Whites and Asians make up about 66% of the general population. Whites and Asians make up about 77% of those in computer science. Males make up 48% of the general population, and 79% in computer science. That's a predominance that is disproportionate.
The next biggest group is "latinos" at 17% (why don't we call them native (central) americans?
Probably because they come from places that speak Latin based languages like Spanish and Portuguese. Hispanic is also used to describe these populations because nearly all of them are descendants of people from "Hispana", an alternative name for the Iberian
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All this tells us is that some people are better at taking IQ tests than others.
IQ isn't a measure of raw intelligence or ability.
AP CS Principles != AP CS A (Score:5, Informative)
I'm an AP Computer Science A teacher (the reason there is an "A" at the end is that there used to be an "AB" course as well that included data structures). That course is equivalent to CS1 at most universities, and that's what you get credit for if you take it (at most places). Java is the language and there's a good treatment of OOP, as well as recursion, sorting/searching algorithms, lists, arrays, and the fundamental stuff. The course that they are describing here is not AP CS A, it's a relatively new course, AP CS Principles. This is a course that's equivalent to a course that many universities create (including two in my metropolitan area) for liberal arts majors (meaning it's a gen ed course). Programming is part of the course, but 25% or less, and the course is intentionally language-agnostic. It's not a bad class (it exposes students to data science as well as programming, which I think is great), but it's not like CS A, which is a "for real" programming class equivalent to a course for freshmen in a CS major. Increasing the diversity in AP CS A is an accomplishment (in my opinion), but increasing AP CS Principles diversity is not very impressive unless you show that the students coming out of it choose a CS-related major (including data science, which is starting to be offered as an undergraduate major).
What concerns me a little bit right now is that many superintendents think they have a solid CS program if they offer AP CS Principles. I don't think you have a solid program until you have AP CS A or an equivalent course in a language like C++ or Python. Describing APCSP as "Coding Lite" may be too generous a description.
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Many students go to college with 0 programming experience, and end up failing dramatically in their first course. Do you think this "Lite" course will help students perform better in their first "real" college programming course?
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More women for garbage collection and oil rigs (Score:2)
Equality for everyone.
I hope this initiative didn't result in people being refused positions for their skin colour or gender either. Hopefully there was simply more spots available?
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No more inequality, all genders and races will be sacked equally.
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They already did.
Say that black people are too dumb and need institutional help to get into jobs but blame it on some invisible monster and bob's your uncle! you get away scott free.
And the joke gets even better when you hire someone that is not qualified to the job and the race ends getting the blame.
Re: Seek & DESTROY - Metallica (Score:2)
All of it. He thinks medication is a Jewish plot.
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Why not just refute his argument instead of mocking?
That would be a bit like trying to have a serious debate with the Time Cube guy.
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Once accepted based on merit they can they select from a long list of study options.
Without a gov, mil, faith telling them what they can study if they have the needed skills.
From that freedom to select what a person will study the individual has the freedom to find their own profession.
The freedom to get into a university. The freedom to select any area of study they want. Then graduate
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No, it's an extension for Latex to markup bell-choir music.
Are you sure it isn't about Vandelay Industries expanding its reach in South America?
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Our IQs are way above average
Fascinatingly, every single person on slashdot has a near-genius IQ. Coincidence? I think not.