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Books Science

Ancient Public Library Discovered In Germany (theguardian.com) 129

Archaeologists have discovered the remains of the oldest public library in Cologne, Germany, "a building erected almost two millennia ago that may have housed up to 20,000 scrolls," reports The Guardian. From the report: The walls were first uncovered in 2017, during an excavation on the grounds of a Protestant church in the centre of the city. Archaeologists knew they were of Roman origins, with Cologne being one of Germany's oldest cities, founded by the Romans in 50 AD under the name Colonia. But the discovery of niches in the walls, measuring approximately 80cm by 50cm, was, initially, mystifying.

"It took us some time to match up the parallels -- we could see the niches were too small to bear statues inside. But what they are are kind of cupboards for the scrolls," said Dr Dirk Schmitz from the Roman-Germanic Museum of Cologne. "They are very particular to libraries -- you can see the same ones in the library at Ephesus." It is not clear how many scrolls the library would have held, but it would have been "quite huge -- maybe 20,000," said Schmitz.

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Ancient Public Library Discovered In Germany

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  • by ffkom ( 3519199 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:05AM (#57047110)
    ... probably had to be taken away due to copyright claims of some imperial Roman mega-corporations.
    • ... probably had to be taken away due to copyright claims of some imperial Roman mega-corporations.

      Yeah . . . "In intellectualis proprietas legis veritas" . . . now I need John Cleese to correct that for me.

      But for a lot of folks today, it's "In Facebookus veritas".

    • No, a Roman economist convinced the public to convert the public library into cheap housing for Amazon women.
    • by umghhh ( 965931 )

      Guttenberg project is not an ancient Roman mega- corp thing but is still blocked in Germany by Google due to German court order.

  • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:49AM (#57047198) Journal

    Ancient libraries were very often (nearly always?) private. They would either serve a particular institution, such as a government body, or some were only open to members who paid the high membership fees (compare a country club). For example, the vast majority of the holdings of Library of Congress aren't available of the public.

    The article indicates they think it was a public library because it was located near the center of town, next.to a church, and there were public buildings nearby. Again, the Library of Congress is at the center of Washington, near public buildings, across the street from the capitol, the Supreme Court building, and a church. It's not a public library.

    • Ancient libraries were very often (nearly always?) private. They would either serve a particular institution, such as a government body, or some were only open to members who paid the high membership fees (compare a country club).

      Gee, even way back when, those in power knew that they needed to control access to information to keep the masses under their yolks.

      "Scientia sit potentia", indeed.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Yokes. Unless there's a yolk/yoke joke I am missing?

      • Books and scrolls were seriously costly back then, you wouldn’t want just anyone to walz in and start pawing them. Especially if they couldn’t.read anyway.
        • Especially if they couldnâ(TM)t.read anyway.
          And why would one who could not read go into a library?

        • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @08:21AM (#57048366) Homepage Journal

          Books and scrolls were seriously costly back then, you wouldn’t want just anyone to walz in and start pawing them. Especially if they couldn’t.read anyway.

          That is exactly what happened in Ancient Roman baths and public libraries. And the literacy rate in the Empire was about 10% overall, but likely would have been higher in the cities where people are engaged in commerce and government. Given that the population of the city of Rome at the time we're talking was 1.5 million, there would surely be hundreds of thousands of potential patrons for a public library in Rome itself.

          Now ancient Cologne had about 20,000 inhabitants; if 10% of them could read that'd be 2000 potential patrons. However since the function of the city was to administer the Roman province of Germania Inferior ("Lower Germany"), I'd guess the literacy rate would be higher, accounting for a population of bureaucrats, administrators and military officers.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Pretty much the only book people would see in The West during the dark ages, was the bible. And it was almost always in a Priest's hands, because you needed an education to actually, truly understand the bible. Otherwise, you might read it, and have a different opinion than those that were 'in the know'.

        Chaos!

        Of course, few could read back then anyhow.. so...

        • by Sique ( 173459 )
          There was even a time, when owning a bible was forbidden (as one could read oneself and then get new ideas how to interpret the Bible), when the Cathars [wikipedia.org] in the 12th century started to get hold in Southern France.
          • by azcoyote ( 1101073 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @09:25AM (#57048798)

            There was even a time, when owning a bible was forbidden...

            Proof? It's easy to repeat these claims, but actual history is far more complex. I don't know of any law ever actually being against owning a Bible. Moreover, Catharism was not persecuted for its use of the Bible, but rather for its attitude against the Bible; like Marcion and the Manichees before, they saw the Godof the Old Testament as evil. Thus the movement had very little to do with the Bible, and was fueled more by other ascetic, philosophical, and mystical influences.

            Owning a Bible was not illegal, but it was nearly impossible for the poor and uneducated masses prior to the printing press. Nobles may own Bibles. In many cases, however, even the book read at Mass was not a whole Bible, but merely a lectionary, which contained the readings of the days but not the entire content of the Bible. This allowed for better mass production.

            It's very easy to ascribe sinister motives to everything, but the people of the middle ages were pretty much the same as us, and economic explanations are often enough to understand the situation. Reading the Bible was not prohibited, but it was assumed that the Bible had to be read according to Church tradition, and so people also read it alongside commentaries and under guidance. Nobles may be privileged to own books--and not just the Bible, but other books as well--but the average peasant simply did not have the money. The price of books was high because of a lack of supply to meet demand. Books were hand-copied word by word.

            • The main obstacle in reading the bible was that it was either written in greek or in latin ...
              It took more than a thousand years that english and german and later french or italian or spanish translations existed ... (And the King James translation is probably the worst)

              • Yes, those would have been impediments to people in western Europe, although the Latin Bible existed precisely to make it easier for people in the western Roman empire (where some form of Latin was either the main language , or a language which educated people knew) to read. There were other translations elsewhere; early on, it was translated into Syriac (indeed, so early that some claimed at least the Gospels had been written in Syriac, then translated into Greek). Other early translations included Ge'ez

                • BTW, why do you consider the KJV the worst of the early European translations?
                  Because the few parts I had to read are just gibberish, trying to make the original text somewhat more "mystic" perhaps.

            • by Sique ( 173459 )
              1199: Pope Innocent III forbade the "reading of the bible in private".

              1229: Pope Gregor IX on the Council of Toulouse (Concil Tolosanum):

              Prohibemus etiam, ne libros veteris testamenti aut novi laici permittantur habere; nisi forte psalterium vel breviarium pro divinis officiis aut horas beatae Mariae aliquis ex devotione habere velit.

              (We also prohibit the laity to have the books of the Old Testament or the New, except, perhaps, the psalter or a breviary, for divine service or the hours of the Holy Mary, or if a person wishes to have them out of devotion.)

          • But the Cathars (a gnostic splinter group of christianity) did not forbid the bible.
            The catholics forbid the Cathars ... hunted them and killed them.

        • by hey! ( 33014 )

          The dark ages came about seven hundred years after this thing was built.

        • by CrimsonAvenger ( 580665 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @08:33AM (#57048440)

          Pretty much the only book people would see in The West during the dark ages, was the bible.

          If you weren't a priest then, the only books you'd see were the account books of your business. Yes, businesses kept account ledgers then. Some of the oldest writings we've found have been invoices...

      • by hey! ( 33014 )

        But the contents of ancient Roman public libraries were controlled.

        In 8CE, Augustus exiled the poet Ovid, and had his book Ars Amatoria [wikipedia.org] removed from the public libraries, although numerous copies remained in private hands.

        Now the modern myth is that Ovid was exiled because Ars was scandalously pornographic, but I think that's a projection of a modern priggishness onto the Ancient Romans. I think the emporer wanted Ovid and the crowd Ovid was mixed with out of the public mind.

        Romans could be priggish, but

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Since the scrolls seem to be missing, I hope it is not public. 20000 years of overdue fees would be like a lot of money.

      • 20000 years of overdue fees would be like a lot of money.

        Only 2000 years actually, and some libraries waive fees for old age pensioners which the borrowers certainly will be by now.

    • I'm not sure the layout of a city 1600 years later and in another continent is *all* that relevant.

      In the eternal dilemma of whether to believe 'article on internet' and 'commenter on article on internet' I shall have to put my faith in the former.

      Dr Dirk Schmitz from the Roman-Germanic Museum of Cologne may have no idea what he's talking about, but if that's the case he's done well to blag the job.

      • by Sique ( 173459 )
        In this case, it is, as the town center of the old Colonia Agrippina was exactly where the town center of today's Cologne is. There is a continuous development from Colonia Agrippina to today's Cologne (and on the other side of the Rhine river, where today's Cologne-Deutz is, was the Roman fortress Castrum Divitensium. Even the churches in Cologne's town center were mostly built on the foundations of Roman temples.
    • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @07:27AM (#57048036) Homepage Journal

      There were definitely libraries in ancient Rome intended to serve the masses, although they mostly date from slightly later than this (e.g. the Library of Celsus [google.com], built in 139 CE in what is now Turkey).

      One of the perqs of being a politician in Ancient Rome is that it afforded you a chance to amass a private fortune. But since you had to be rich to play that game to begin with, what did you spend that new money on? Buying popularity.

      The ultimate examples of that were what we misleadingly call Roman "baths", which by the imperial era had become a combination bath, gym, beauty salon, mall, theater, restaurant, art gallery, and library. Basically they were crammed with every entertaining thing the politician could imagine. Now, granted, wealthy Romans had baths in their home and slaves to feed and groom them, but Romans were a sociable lot; it wasn't enough to be rich, you had to be seen being rich, and generous too.

      Of course baths were so expensive in their engineering only the very richest politicians could afford to donate them to the public, which is why the great era of Roman bath-building was the imperial era. But earlier on politicians donated less grand (by Roman standards -- plenty grand by any other) public works, including public libraries. Gaius Asinius Pollio, patron of the poet Virgil and an accomplished writer himself, donated the first public library in Rome with money he looted from Iran. That was built around 39 BC.

    • Ancient libraries were very often (nearly always?) private. ... The article indicates they think it was a public library because it was located near the center of town ..

      It is ridiculous to think it was a public library in the modern sense. Are "they" really archaeologists or just the builders who found the place? Very few people would have been allowed to handle these scrolls.

      • Sorry, but you are an idiot.

        Especially during roman times society was more or less on the same level we are right now.

        They had no computers ... and no diesel engines. And thats it. Laws, society, public interaction was more or less the same as now.

        No idea what you kids learn in school ...

        Heck, the 'code Napolion' or even modern German law, is 90% a word by word translation of old roman law.

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      Maybe they found some homeless people sleeping on the benches.

    • Depends what you call ancient and which region you refer to.

      Both "middle east" and Asia had plenty of public libraries since 4000 BC ...

      The most famous one probably was the library of Alexandria.

  • by Hognoxious ( 631665 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @03:12AM (#57047260) Homepage Journal

    the niches were too small to bear statues inside

    Unless the statues were really small too.

    Pshaw! So -called "experts".

    • I'm sure in a few years they'll admit it was some rich Roman's dildo collection.
    • Any sufficiently small statue is indistinguishable from an action figure.
    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      It's analogous to this situation. Suppose you walked into a three story house that was completely empty of furniture. Would you know that it house and not, say, an office building? The same kind of knowledge applies here. If it is built like things we know from historical records were Roman libraries, and it's Roman, it was almost certainly a library.

      Now is it possible this was built by a rich eccentric to house his miniature legionnaire action figures? Sure. And it's possible that building is an office

  • Time to revive the years old NRK video of Medieval HelpDesk:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQHX-SjgQvQ

  • And none of them returned for 2000 years?
    Call the library cop!

  • by mcswell ( 1102107 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @11:43PM (#57054346)

    Are you sure that's not just because the English is old (Early Modern, roughly same period as Shakespeare)? I've read both the KJV and other translations all the way through, and while there are certainly places where the KJV is not only older English, but also just strange, as well as places where the translation is not so good (mostly Old Testament, maybe especially Psalms), it's not all that bad if you can deal with the thee's and thou's.

The faster I go, the behinder I get. -- Lewis Carroll

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