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Twitter Social Networks The Internet United States Technology

President Trump Says It is 'Very Dangerous' When Companies Like Twitter Regulate Own Content (reuters.com) 692

In an interview with Reuters on Monday, the U.S. President Donald Trump said that it is "very dangerous" for social media companies like Twitter and Facebook to regulate the content on their own platforms. Trump's remarks come on the backdrop of technology giants Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Spotify, and YouTube ridding select kind of content of their platforms in the recent weeks. On Saturday, Trump argued that social media companies are "closing down the opinions" of conservatives. He tweeted, "They are closing down the opinions of many people on the RIGHT, while at the same time doing nothing to others. Speaking loudly and clearly for the Trump Administration, we won't let that happen."

Further reading: Twitter Is 'Rethinking' Its Service, and Suspending 1M Accounts Each Day.
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President Trump Says It is 'Very Dangerous' When Companies Like Twitter Regulate Own Content

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  • Both are dangerous (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @03:57PM (#57161888)

    The moment any platform that allows public user comments starts meddling in who can speak, and who can say what - that is dangerous. Even more so when multiple companies collide to prevent one person from speaking as is the case with Alex Jones.

    But that should, if anything, be a legal matter; someone I read somewhere said that Alex Jones may well be able to make a restraint to trade lawsuit happen against a variety of companies.

    HOWEVER what is even more dangerous is letting the government have direct sway over what actions companies like Facebook or Twitter can or cannot have over users. You have to be able to let them run platforms as they see fit, then let the market of users and financial consequences dictate what actions are appropriate for a company to take.

    Even though Twitter banned Alex Jones, you also see people like Will Wheaton self banning - so it's not like there is a balance naturally occurring anyway, even as things are.

    For myself, I continue to use Twitter but the way to enjoy it is instantly mute anyone who goes political. Technical Twitter seems OK still.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:08PM (#57161992)

      Alex Jones pushed violent attacks on innocent individuals named from his conspiracy theories with no bases in truth. To defend him makes you a nutter, regardless of what the individual reasons platforms game for giving him das boot.

      Kendall happily defends traitors and dangerous people, so long as ideologically they agree with him. Otherwise he's for the opposite.

      • Maybe the offending videos that actually broke TOS should be removed, and the process be transparent. Too many strikes, and the person be banned temporarily or perhaps permanently from posting new content - deleting accepted content retroactively seems sketchy. But as much as I hate alex jones, it's really too easy in my opinion for this to become a slippery slope. A handful of executives overseeing the vast majority of open social forums, able to move the goalposts with unilateral authority, deciding w
    • by PraiseBob ( 1923958 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:11PM (#57162026)
      I think the courts have been pretty consistent that inciting panic (shouting "fire") and inciting violence do not qualify as free speech, and aren't under the same level of protections. Media companies are reacting in a somewhat reasonable manner in trying to curb and remove the calls for violence that Alex Jones keeps issuing on their platforms. It just so happens that most of the requests for violence are coming from right-wing talking heads. I'd HOPE for the same kind of response if left-wing talking heads kept calling for violence towards their political opponents.

      I'm sure there are plenty of counterexamples, but pro-gun groups & people are much more consistent about using guns as their solution when compared to the anti-gun crowd for instance.
      • by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @05:21PM (#57162656)
        No one on Twitter has 1A protection -- NO ONE. Twitter is a private corp, not part of the gov't, and "free speech" as defined by the 1A *only* affects the gov't ability to block said speech.
    • Platforms like this quickly get overrun with spam. Any measures that deal with spam eventually move to dealing with spam created by action groups. One man's censorship is another man's garbage collection - it's only when it gets applied unfairly or unevenly that it becomes a real problem.

      • Platforms like this quickly get overrun with spam. Any measures that deal with spam eventually move to dealing with spam created by action groups.

        I totally agree with both statements.

        One man's censorship is another man's garbage collection - it's only when it gets applied unfairly or unevenly that it becomes a real problem.

        I also agree with this, the problem is that it will always end up being applied unfairly eventually if it's the company doing the blocking.

        I think the best approach is to treat it like em

    • by Raenex ( 947668 )

      Technical Twitter seems OK still

      What's the fucking point?

      • What's the fucking point?

        The thing that keeps me on Technical twitter, is I can have this stream I follow with a lot of little minor events to keep up on easily - like releases of some development tools or software I care about, or some interesting technical tips for stuff I work with. Similarly I also at times come across some hard-won technical knowledge that I throw out on Twitter - maybe it helps someone, maybe it doesn't but at least it's out there in a lot of other heads for someone to remember in th

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:53PM (#57162412) Homepage Journal

      I assume you mean "colluded"... But really Jones has been trying to get himself banned for a long time and given that he posts the same content on all platforms it's hardly surprising that they all banned him around the same time.

      Getting banned helps him by fuelling his conspiracy theories.

    • "HOWEVER what is even more dangerous is letting the government have direct sway over what actions companies like Facebook or Twitter can or cannot have over users."

      I don't know about you, but I trust someone I elected far more than a for profit corporation 9 times out of 10. Your statement is very american. You don't trust the government so you elected trump to ruin it. So I wouldn't use the broken american political system, where they are trying to elect the least qualified person possible, as an example o

    • Sounds like a free market problem to me. As in, if no one is willing to carry the bullshit you're peddling, perhaps you should modify your message a bit. Because Alex Jones is a bullshit peddler extraordinaire, and the market is rejecting him. Too bad for Alex.

      And now Trump is mad because the BS peddlers that support him are dwindling as troll farm, fake news, and political conspiracy theory filters become more effective. Let me grab a box of industrial strength tissues for this sob story.

      Ignoring my pe

  • by Anonymous Coward

    He is more concerned that far right are being kicked off but the real concern for the companies is once they start down a route of saying what views can and can't appear they are opening a never ending problem for themselves and possibly risk changing their legal status from an open platform to a curated one and hence liable for their content

    • but the real concern for the companies is once they start down a route of saying what views can and can't appear they are opening a never ending problem for themselves and possibly risk changing their legal status from an open platform to a curated one and hence liable for their content

      If they're willing to take that possible risk, who are you to say they can't?

    • by nasch ( 598556 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @05:24PM (#57162684)

      risk changing their legal status from an open platform to a curated one and hence liable for their content

      They're protected from liability for the speech of their users by the Communications Decency Act. The CDA explicitly states that moderating their platforms does not remove that protection.

  • Twitter is doing exactly nothing to stop people from starting their own service. If they don't like the terms at Twitter they are free to go start a new service where they can set the terms. Twitter is not obligated to bend to the whims of Trump or anyone else if they fear it would be bad for their bottom line. After all at the end of the day they exist to make money, not to be the mouthpiece of any one man.
    • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:24PM (#57162148) Journal

      If they don't like the terms at Twitter they are free to go start a new service where they can set the terms.

      Rupert Murdoch's company, of which Fox News was part of, purchased MySpace in part for that reason. But it flopped.

      GOP are hypocrites: They did away with the Fairness Doctrine when radio was booming with conservative pundits. Now they want something like it back for Big Digital Media, which is centrist or left-leaning.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Raenex ( 947668 )

      There's a handful of companies that control the online public square, by virtue of the network effect and natural monopolies. They're all based out of far-left leaning California. What does it mean to have free speech when your speech is censored by a politically biased oligarchy that controls >90% of the public square?

      Would you accept the top-3 mobile companies banning you from their services because they didn't like what you were saying? Right before the midterm elections?

      • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Monday August 20, 2018 @05:14PM (#57162574) Homepage Journal

        Would you accept the top-3 mobile companies banning you from their services because they didn't like what you were saying? Right before the midterm elections?

        No, but I also don't try to incite violence.

        The people to be really mad at are the telecoms, who have collected billions of dollars in tax money which was supposed to be used to improve our internet access but which went into the pockets of telecommunications executives. If not for them, then it would be a lot easier to host your own content. The internet we deserve, even if for no reason other than that we paid for it, would let Alex Jones continue to spout his hatred even without the cooperation of Google. P.S. #netneutrality

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      There is Gab, but because it's full of conspiracy theorists and Nazis it's not very popular. So essentially people are demanding to be on the popular services, they don't really care about freedom of speech.

    • by Tailhook ( 98486 )

      If they don't like the terms at Twitter they are free to go start a new service where they can set the terms.

      "They" are.

      And yes, this is the correct solution to corporate censorship. This is our moral panic; anything that fails to conform to prevailing "virtue" is labeled an incitement to violence and banned.

      • The current prevailing "virtue" is not being a Nazi, and not advocating genocide. I'm okay with that.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Tailhook ( 98486 )

          Nazi

          Self righteous name calling; classic moral panic behavior.

          I'm okay with that

          Said every virtuemonger ever.

          • Self righteous name calling; classic moral panic behavior.

            Yeah it's such a moral panic to call those people with swastika tattoos---who like chanting "blood and soil" and complain endlessly about "the jews"---Nazis.

            They're not Nazis they're very naughty boys.

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            That some fucked up political correctness when you can't call a Nazi a Nazi any more.

  • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:03PM (#57161934)
    As in who they decide is allowed to buy one? Either you allow all private companies to select who can use their service or you allow none of them to do so.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by quantaman ( 517394 )

      As in who they decide is allowed to buy one? Either you allow all private companies to select who can use their service or you allow none of them to do so.

      The baker was asking for the right to discriminate against a specific viewpoint because of their religious beliefs. The question was whether the baker's religious freedom was impinged enough to justify the violation of anti-discrimination laws.

      Twitter and Facebook are trying to formula viewpoint neutral policies in order to get rid of toxic content and maintain healthy communities.

      It's a tricky issue, but kind of unavoidable, and they're arguably doing it in a way that would be compatible with the US 1st am

    • by jensend ( 71114 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @05:11PM (#57162558)

      That's baloney, and I think you know better and are just trying to be provocative (flamebait).

      The bakers were perfectly happy to sell those people standard bakery items. They were unwilling to expend their creative and artistic effort to make a custom cake to support an event they have moral objections to. Similarly, one might expect a Jewish bakery to sell rolls and muffins to neo-Nazis but one ought not expect them to create custom cakes for a neo-Nazi rally.

  • This is quite tricky territory for companies such as Twitter, Google etc.

    If they now censor speech as a matter of course, does this mean they are making editorial decisions? If so, does this make them liable for all speech on their platforms. Or will they only use this power to stop speech they don't agree with even if the speech is not illegal / defamatory etc.

    • If that's the case, then it would apply to any online forum where any kind of moderation happens. But the reality is that for anyone, even the government, to go after a social media site for illegal or defamatory posts would require them to demonstrate intent. If someone makes a death threat via Twitter, in a criminal trial clearly no one could accuse Twitter of being an accessory. It had no intent, it's just basically a message service. It's get dicier for civil suits, and I suppose it's possible that some

    • One could say that Twitter is a distributor. They have every right to decide what they want to distribute. An analogy here would be a film distributor. No, Disney's distribution company doesn't have to distribute your pornographic film in the interests of fairness. They can decide that they're not interested due to the content of the film.

      Twitter can decide not to distribute your content for whatever reason they choose. You can find another distributor for your content.

      • by Raenex ( 947668 )

        One could say that Twitter is a distributor. They have every right to decide what they want to distribute. An analogy here would be a film distributor.

        A film distributor would be responsible for what they distribute. Twatter and the other Big Tech oligarchies want to curate their content but not be responsible for what they publish.

    • by nasch ( 598556 )

      No, section 230 of the Communications Decency Act grants immunity from liability for the speech of users, even if the owner of the service moderates/censors content on that service.

  • There was a person in another forum who denigrated Youtube's effort at fact-checking videos (Youtube recently started publishing links to Wikipedia articles on climate change, next to videos skeptical about the existence of climate change) - this poster was claiming that fact checking was tantamount to silencing alternative viewpoints. It's... an interesting corruption of the notion of truth. This person was equating "being incorrect" with "having a different opinion."
    • by aitikin ( 909209 )

      ...this poster was claiming that fact checking was tantamount to silencing alternative viewpoints. It's... an interesting corruption of the notion of truth. This person was equating "being incorrect" with "having a different opinion."

      In an era when we have The President of the United States of America having a personal lawyer who says, "Truth isn't truth anymore!" that's not as much of a corruption...

    • Someone told me yesterday that the thirteenth amendment prohibits free healthcare. He actually knew what was in the thirteenth amendment.

  • by RyanFenton ( 230700 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:04PM (#57161968)

    Trolls do tend to say that whenever moderation starts removing abuse dominating a conversation channel.

    The other top response is saying that they wouldn't be trolling of only the other side would stop being so wrong.

    But to never moderate those things would mean that everything becomes rhetoric - all noise and no signal. It defeats the purpose of having having a channel of communication... which is kind of the point of this modern form of trolling, isn't it?

    Ryan Fenton

  • by SeaFox ( 739806 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:10PM (#57162012)

    I'm sure he's perfectly fine with the government regulating social media, and the press for that matter.
    Things will be full of the correct facts then... just like in China and North Korea.

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:11PM (#57162018)
    And Jones was fine for years until he started doing borderline incitement to violence. It doesn't help that he caters to an extreme right wing base that's been shown to act on the kind of crazy conspiracy theories he specializes in.

    BTW, does anyone else think in the "two minutes of hate" from 1984 when watching Jones rant? Serious, that creeped me out more than anything he's done (yes, more than the references to blood libel whenever he criticized someone Jewish).
  • If it were any other president, it would be worth debating this. However, President Trump is a compulsive liar, criminal and derides all content he doesn't like by calling it "fake news". Twitter should have booted him long ago but refused to do so because it would hurt their business.

    I have no sympathy for sources of disinformation.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      NYT just hired a blatent racist editor.
      Another NYT editor went on TV to say Trump is going to round up people and murder them.

      Fake News is appropriate. Or you are a racist bigot that thinks lying about people is acceptable, and since you are likely a liberal I will assume you are a racist.

  • The Left: "The internet is a public utility, and Service Providers have no right to control what content we see on their platform!"

    Also the Left: "Service Providers have an absolute right to control what content is allowed on their platform!"

    The Right: "The internet is NOT a public utility, it is a business tool for commerce, and you have no free speech on private platforms!"

    Also the Right: "Businesses on the internet have no right to censor speech on their platforms!"

    No wonder we're going to hell in a hand

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Uhh you have your terms mixed up. Twitter provides a service, but isn't an internet service provider. This falls exactly in line with pro net neutrality views.

      • This is exactly right, and I wish I had points to mod you up. Twitter != Internet. Comcast on the other hand does play the role of internet provider and the argument there isn't about which content they carry, but whether they grant performance preferences to some content over others.
  • by hduff ( 570443 ) <hoytduff@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Monday August 20, 2018 @05:50PM (#57162826) Homepage Journal

    The 1st Amendment of the US Constitution just keeps the government from censoring your speech. Since social media is not the government, they can do whatever they want: allowing you to speak unfettered, closing your account, censoring what you say. There's NOTHING illegal or wrong about that; it's only a problem when the government starts censoring your speech.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas l'Informatique. -- Bosquet [on seeing the IBM 4341]

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