Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Mozilla Education Firefox The Internet Technology

Tech Suffers From Lack of Humanities, Says Mozilla Head (theguardian.com) 472

The head of the Mozilla Foundation, Mitchell Baker, is warning that companies need to diversify their hiring practices to include more people from backgrounds in philosophy and psychology if they want to tackle the problem of misinformation online. He also "warned that hiring employees who mainly come from Stem -- science, technology, engineering and maths -- will produce a new generation of technologists with the same blindspots as those who are currently in charge, a move that will 'come back to bite us,'" reports the Guardian. From the report: "Stem is a necessity, and educating more people in Stem topics clearly critical," Baker told the Guardian. "Every student of today needs some higher level of literacy across the Stem bases. "But one thing that's happened in 2018 is that we've looked at the platforms, and the thinking behind the platforms, and the lack of focus on impact or result. It crystallized for me that if we have Stem education without the humanities, or without ethics, or without understanding human behavior, then we are intentionally building the next generation of technologists who have not even the framework or the education or vocabulary to think about the relationship of Stem to society or humans or life."

"Stem is a necessity, and educating more people in Stem topics clearly critical," Baker told the Guardian. "Every student of today needs some higher level of literacy across the Stem bases. "But one thing that's happened in 2018 is that we've looked at the platforms, and the thinking behind the platforms, and the lack of focus on impact or result. It crystallized for me that if we have Stem education without the humanities, or without ethics, or without understanding human behavior, then we are intentionally building the next generation of technologists who have not even the framework or the education or vocabulary to think about the relationship of Stem to society or humans or life."

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Tech Suffers From Lack of Humanities, Says Mozilla Head

Comments Filter:
  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @09:29PM (#57470258)

    I have a CS degree. As part of that, I had to take quite a few humanities courses, do a lot of reading and research on other topics.

    Sure there are some workers from trade schools where that kind of thing is not as prevalent, but it seems like most tech workers I've run into have also been to college (and often not even for CS degrees so they have an even wider range of education). So I'm not sure if there really is the problem being claimed...

    • I think the notion that college necessarily implies being well-versed in the humanities is kind of parochial. Lots and lots of college and university graduates have intense education but essentially minimal humanities exposure.

    • by quenda ( 644621 )

      I have a CS degree. As part of that, I had to take quite a few humanities courses,

      Really, forced to do humanities units? Is that common in the US?
      As part of my CS degree, I chose to do a little psychology, but only because it topped off the points needed for my degree, without having to do any real work.

      • by HornWumpus ( 783565 ) on Saturday October 13, 2018 @12:24AM (#57470660)

        We had to take a humanities focus area (3 courses in one 'focus area') in addition to our regular humanities coursework.

        Turns out every engineering student had run the same algorithm...best ratio. Hence the psych department had made themselves the only 'not eligible for humanities focus area' department.

        Best not to stick your dick into crazy. (psych major==crazy). But we were kids, didn't know better.

    • by Tom ( 822 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @11:52PM (#57470606) Homepage Journal

      I have a CS degree. As part of that, I had to take quite a few humanities courses, do a lot of reading and research on other topics.

      The psychology that you take in CS is entrance level. It is the scientific part, about perception and groupings and such.

      There is another level when you fill an entire study with it. You can go the clinical path (two friends of mine did that) which is basically where doctors go. This part also is reasonably well understood and has a mostly sound scientific basis.

      Or you can go the humanities path and then it becomes a wild mix of dogma and bullshit. There are extensive articles around (Google is your friend) about how most of the studies don't replicate, almost none of the studies replacate outside the lab, and how deeply ethics commissions and gender studies have applied a chokehold to necessary research.

    • Sure there are some workers from trade schools where that kind of thing is not as prevalent...

      It can be difficult to keep them from dangerous accidents with the lathe if they're preoccupied with wondering "does existence precede essence?"

  • Clearly. Clearly. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ChromeAeonuim ( 1026946 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @09:48PM (#57470308)
    Tech definitely needs more people with language skills when it comes to pasting the summary.

    Tech definitely needs more people with language skills when it comes to pasting the summary.
  • NO WE DO NOT! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Chas ( 5144 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @10:04PM (#57470344) Homepage Journal

    The very last thing Tech needs more of are gender studies majors.

    Please stop trying to get intersectional loon-bags jobs where they can tell people what sexist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic, blahblahblahblahblah pieces of shit they are and demanding they lower hiring standards to achieve a non-existent "perfect balance" of races, sexes and flat-out leftist-only ideology.

    • that's a very small part. History and Literature are the vast majority. We could do with people that knew history better, given what's happened in the last few elections or the pointless wars we keep getting dragged into for no good reason...
  • Diversity (Score:5, Insightful)

    by The Grim Reefer ( 1162755 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @10:14PM (#57470378)

    The head of theÂMozilla Foundation, Mitchell Baker, is warning that companies need to diversify

    And that's where I stop reading. How about we just hire qualified people for a job and leave it at that? While I despise racists, mysoginists, etc. I've gotten to the point that any time I hear "diversity" I tune out because it's going to be bullshit. I also will not work for any company that has anyone with that word in their title. If that position is needed, then there's already something really wrong. Yes, there are some assholes in the world, but why would you want to force them to hire someone they are going to not want. I've had friends who were hired because of this kind of crap. And even though they were qualified, they were miserable. I know that Billy Bob Joe Jim's Klan Sheet company would lynch me on sight if they could, so I sure as hell don't want to work for him because he was forced to hire me. Do you think most white tech geeks would feel comfortable being hired to work in the ghetto because we need more white folks there? We need more fat old white men working as servers at Hooters too. There also aren't enough Asian rappers. And damnit, where are all of the quadraplegic trapeze artists.

    • Re:Diversity (Score:4, Informative)

      by Kagetsuki ( 1620613 ) on Saturday October 13, 2018 @03:06AM (#57470872)

      She wasn't even supposed to have the job. She literally chased out the chosen next-in-line CEO Brendan Eich (creator of JavaScript) by getting a bunch of her SJW staff to physically keep him out of the building and threaten him. Look it up *and note how a lot of news didn't cover it at all*. There's a personal account from him floating around too.

      Here's hoping Brave development progresses to the point we can all just forget about FireFox and Mozilla at some point in the near future.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      And that's where I stop reading.

      And you're the poorer for it, because you've missed Baker's entire point. A company that limits its talent pool to one type of person suffers from not just blind spots, but tunnel vision. Such a company tries to solve a problem that requires a full toolbox just by using a hammer.

      • Humanities in recent decades *is* about tunnel vision. Everything has to serve a single political position. Any idea that could possibly serve an alternative political position is vilified, and anything that simply non-political is seen as a waste of time.

        Bring more humanities majors into tech will give it more tunnel vision, not less.

      • It's a tell for the SJW left. They're not about diversity: the important kind, viewpoint diversity. You don't want to hire grievance studies majors for your business. They're nothing but trouble. Once they get in, they'll ensure that your employees are afraid to speak their minds.
  • by cullenfluffyjennings ( 138377 ) <fluffy@iii.ca> on Friday October 12, 2018 @10:16PM (#57470388) Homepage

    Speaking of false news, could we at least get a few details correct. More about Mitchell at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    I expect Cowboy Neil to keep everything on Slashdot 100% true news you can use.

  • by blarkon ( 1712194 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @10:21PM (#57470400)

    While Popper's Falsification rubric for determining what is scientific isn't particularly sophisticated, the idea that there can be a hypothetical experimental result that would disprove a hypothesis is at the core of STEM fields.

    The problem in the recent humanities fields is that the core tenants of most disciplines are constructed in such a way as to be undisprovable. The moment you're learning things where it is impossible to construct a research project to disprove those things, you've moved into the realm of ideology.

    While there's probably reasons why certain companies want their workers to unquestioningly accept whatever set of assumptions about the universe that the company wants to promote, the businesses that are ultimately successful are the ones that have workers that have functional bullshit detectors. And while science is far from perfect, the epistemological basis of science involves the eventual excision of bullshit hypotheses.

    • The problem in the recent humanities fields is that the core tenants of most disciplines are constructed in such a way as to be undisprovable. The moment you're learning things where it is impossible to construct a research project to disprove those things, you've moved into the realm of ideology.

      This also applies to any argument for the status quo, and yet people like you still make it. So why do you get to break your own rules?

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      You are assuming that the only way to prove something is through "hard science methods" like reproduction and strictly controlled testing.

      However, look at things like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. Impossible to prove through reproduction because you can't reset someone's mind, yet it helps millions of people and is proven to work beyond any doubt. A lot of psychology is like that, proven to be effective or predictive on a large scale.

      And it's a good thing too, because dismissing it as bunk would leave many

      • by malkavian ( 9512 ) on Saturday October 13, 2018 @09:21AM (#57471512)

        Things like CBT, you don't evaluate as a single sample. You look at statistical bodies and meta studies of those "hard science" studies (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584580/).
        It's efficacy is shown to have significance. In other words, it's not a sure fire cure, or working in even a majority of cases, but has an effect well above a lack of intervention of simple conversation.
        So, it comes down to "It'll help some people in some circumstances". Which is fine. It's one tool in an arsenal of tools that should be tried, and discarded if it doesn't work in that case.
        Where did you get your concept of it not working by reproducing, and that it's not able to be examined or evaluated by "hard science"? Because whatever source you got it from is provably wrong.

  • You can't have everything. But you can certainly complain about not having everything.

  • The product produced has to be released to a standard that works and users have confidence in.
    That needs vert smart people who can code to a really great standard.
    Better than their global competition so their US brand can get the best reviews.

    How is stopping work to look for people who want to work with something to do with arts going to ensure long term competitiveness?

    Smart nations with the best science, technology, engineering and maths are not slowing down to think about adding some arts and ethic
  • It's so critical we have to say it twice.

  • I disagree. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Tech needs executives who have a set of morals, and who listen to and trust their STEM people when they wave a red flag, rather than a bunch of sales guys who'd sell their grandmother for a quick buck.

    Seen it too many times to count. "Just get it shipped" trumps all other concerns.

  • by Robin Bermanseder ( 4925885 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @11:16PM (#57470540)
    I have degrees in both camps, Science (Physics, Computing) and Humanities (Public Policy).
    I have seen and been involved in the thought processes and the implicit value hierarchies that underlie both types of thinking.

    The utterances of Ms Baker need to be exposed and refuted immediately. They are dangerous and sociopathic.
    The attack on science by the current marxist inspired SJWs threatens us with a return to the dark ages.
    Read some history.
    Read "A Canticle for Liebowitz"
    For the love of science and our civilization, resist this.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @11:39PM (#57470580)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Tech suffers from a lack of tech skill. The security problems in Firefox are a prime example.
  • blind spots (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tom ( 822 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @11:48PM (#57470596) Homepage Journal

    Here is an incomplete list of study fields with obvious blind spots:

    Psychology - around half their studies do not replicate, still cannot explain basic phenomena of daily life, increasingly infused with politics, hindered by ethics (not a bad thing, but a fact) to conduct important research

    Economics - reductionist approach to humans, has no concept of basic facts of human life (e.g. altruism), in the real world economists are as often wrong as they are right, mass blindness to black swans, has led us into the financial crisis

    Gender studies and its relatives - has taken its own subject and turned it into a mixture of politics, bullshit bingo and sanctuary for rejects. Fundamentally flawed and unscientific to the core.

    No, thanks. We don't need any of these people anywhere. Most of them are already doing enough damage as they are. "Diversity" is a bullshit term when it is enforced, because it is becoming the exact thing that it pretends to combat - exclusion. "sorry, we already have three black people, we need an asian person now". And the rallying cry of "needs more diversity" has become a synonym for "we are jealous that something in the real world actually works without us being involved".

    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      Software engineers are hardly free from the "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" fallacy. I've seen a lot of attempts to fix flawed thinking and flawed processes through software fail miserably because it ignored the non-technological aspects or got lost trying to solve a technical problem that was rather irrelevant to the business problem.

      There's lots of real psychology like confirmation bias, sunken cost fallacy etc. but they're easy to poke fun at, ask a psychologist what the tim

      • why do we have gender roles and where do they come from is a reasonable topic to study

        On the surface, I'd agree with you. However, that isn't what "gender studies" does in practice. It burrows down into a "gender role" until it finds how that role is imstigated with malace aforethought by the "white patriarchy" to "prove" that that particular gender role is wrong .

        And maybe we'd do better with an expert who isn't a great fit than a mediocre team player.

        Or maybe, as has been found by others, you will in

  • by OneOfMany07 ( 4921667 ) on Friday October 12, 2018 @11:56PM (#57470618)

    My experience in the tech field is that companies constantly pressure their employees for more productivity, and that everyone can be moral. You don't need a degree in philosophy or psychology to be caring and aware of what is right/good...just as you don't need a computer science degree to program.

    Oh, and it wouldn't hurt to punish people who are immoral. Just like it would help to do the same in politics.

  • by An Ominous Cow Erred ( 28892 ) on Saturday October 13, 2018 @01:29AM (#57470768)

    Cupcake bakeries need to hire more employees with degrees in astrophysics, bringing their much-needed understanding of electron degeneracy pressure in white dwarfs and pair-instability supernovae to the cupcake industry.

    Afternoon child daycare centers need to hire more trained welding technicians, who understand when to use arc or gas welders depending on the material used and the appropriate flux needed for strong joints in compressive or tensile loads in bridges, skyscrapers and submarines. This is vital for the children's well-being.

    Most importantly, symphony orchestras (whether public or privately-managed) need to get on the bandwagon (as it were) and hire more software engineers adept in low-level microcontroller coding in assembly language, supplemented with theory-oriented CS graduates who can develop better sorting algorithms for the violin section.

  • Under Mitchell Baker's expert direction Mozilla share of the Market has gone from around 30% to around 5%. When considering her advice I would assess it against this historical backdrop. This is not a track record of success.
    Of course she could simply be blowing her own trumpet, as her qualifications would appear to be very light on "STEM" and of course you need more non-technical people.

  • "Stem is a necessity, and educating more people in Stem topics clearly critical," Baker told the Guardian. "Every student of today needs some higher level of literacy across the Stem bases. "But one thing that's happened in 2018 is that we've looked at the platforms, and the thinking behind the platforms, and the lack of focus on impact or result. It crystallized for me that if we have Stem education without the humanities, or without ethics, or without understanding human behavior, then we are intentionall

  • They lack context for what they do. They aspire to become inhuman "stembots," cranking out code or devices - mere cogs in the machinery of tech production and maintenance. But then, higher education has changed into a vocational school environment that is milking generations for future earnings and no longer cares about educating young people for a higher purpose in life.
  • Does your company have a bunch of MBAs near the top? Do you think that's a STEM degree?

A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can take from you. -- Ramsey Clark

Working...