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Tech Groups Step Away From Gab Network After Shooting (ft.com) 631

Tech companies including PayPal and Stripe have suspended their services from Gab, a social network catering primarily to US conservatives that had been used by the man accused of killing 11 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue. From a report: The moves are likely to reopen the debate about the limits of free speech online and the potential for social networks to radicalise users. Gab was launched two years ago by tech entrepreneur Andrew Torba, who became frustrated with what he perceived as a bias against conservative views on California-based social networks such as Facebook and Twitter. His site soon attracted controversial rightwing figures, including Richard Spencer and Alex Jones, who had been suspended or banned from other social networks. Robert Bowers, who has been charged over the shooting at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh on Saturday, was among Gab's hundreds of thousands of users, the company confirmed on Saturday. Mr Bowers, whose profile on Gab featured images of guns and white supremacist iconography, made anti-Semitic posts and threats on the site just hours before the shooting. Since Saturday's shooting, Gab has been accused of not doing enough to prevent free expression from tipping over into hate speech on its site.

Online payments companies PayPal and Stripe, as well as hosting provider Joyent, all said they would stop Gab from using their services, [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled, alternative source] citing violations of their terms of services, which do not allow hate speech. Gab slammed the moves as "direct collusion between big tech giants" against it. This weekend is not the first time that Gab has been sharply criticised for the content it hosts.Last year, after a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Google removed Gab from Google Play, its mobile app store, claiming it violated its policy on hate speech.

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Tech Groups Step Away From Gab Network After Shooting

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    • by makerfixer ( 5082071 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:12AM (#57549455)
      It's important to note that a lot of this has to do with payment processors who are under intense pressure from their regulators to police themselves far more than required under law. So the government does not have a neutral opinion in this. Operation Chokepoint and it's constant expansion for instance.
      • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:43AM (#57549597)
        who got away with knowingly laundering money for drug cartels for years (decades?), got to keep all the profits and had little to no repercussions ($100 million dollar fine sounds like a lot unless you consider the profits they made from the illegal activity).

        They way I look at it is like this: Police yourselves so the gov't doesn't have to. See here [youtube.com] for a far more amusing take on it though
        • They way I look at it is like this: Police yourselves so the gov't doesn't have to.

          If corporations ban speech under threat of government coercion, how is that any different than the government directly censoring speech?

          • You can't make direct threats. That's what's at issue here. Paypal was fine with Gab until one of their own shot up a place.

            That said, Paypal's a payment processor, not a web forum. I don't think this is pressure from the gov't. It's more likely they're worried about a backlash from their customers.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Funny, because I was going to chime in to comment about the whole Visa/Amazon/etc dropping the ability to support Wikileaks which definitely came from a push from government legislators. I was against it then, and I am against it now with this. This also extends to the treatment of sex workers and swingers through websites on the claims of traffic. "Self-policing" of others is mostly something I don't want to see with business. The sort of crap I want to see is companies self-policing their own behavior

      • by tinkerton ( 199273 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:49AM (#57549647)

        Agreed. I had noticed people feeling censored on Twitter and considering the move to Gab. This is an excuse to demonetize Gab. I don't know Gab (not a social media user) but it's likely that it's not just far right wing people who move there.

        I think there's a major censorship operation going on but this is not simple to prove because one person's false positives are another person't real targets. There is so much crap on the web that anyone targeting 'serious' dissident content only has to bundle sufficient crap into each censoring operation to stay under the radar.
        Real freedom of speech protects against this so you don't even have to know which of the two scenarios apply.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Gravis Zero ( 934156 )

        Operation Chokepoint and it's constant expansion for instance.

        You might have a point if not for the fact that Operation Choke Point was ended in August 2017 [wikipedia.org] and had absolutely nothing to do with any kind of speech and everything to do with fraud.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by epyT-R ( 613989 )

      Yeah, unless of course you're hating on the right people, then suddenly the deplatform attempt becomes 'oppression.'

    • by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki.gmail@com> on Sunday October 28, 2018 @12:24PM (#57549851) Homepage

      Your image is shit. [magaimg.net] That isn't free speech, that's speech controlled by a person/people who's sensibilities are offended.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Just be happy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by makerfixer ( 5082071 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:10AM (#57549437)
    Something happened as a god excuse to shutdown the remaining platforms before the election. The worst mistake made by the blog-o-sphere was consolidating into platforms that had a strong ideological bent and zero interest in free-speech.
  • Free Enterprise (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TheDarkener ( 198348 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:11AM (#57549447) Homepage

    These are all non-government corporations making these decisions. If Gab is free to conduct their service how they wish without government intervention, so is PayPal and Stripe. Simple as that.

    • but that makes things a little hard for the American Right wing vis-a-vis gay rights, so I don't see that happening. Nonetheless if the right wanted this to stop for real that would be the way to do it.

      That said, I don't think they do. The right wing own all 3 branches of government and nearly all of the media (they dominate talk radio, Fox News' ratings are much higher than MSNBC and, well, as a lefty I can safely say that MSNBC is right wing on economics, just go watch some of their coverage of Orcass
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by lgw ( 121541 )

        The right wing own all 3 branches of government

        Republicans do. Conservatives don't. It's still mostly the Establishment Uniparty in charge, which is why so little changes.

        and nearly all of the media (they dominate talk radio, Fox News' ratings are much higher than MSNBC and, well, as a lefty I can safely say that MSNBC is right wing on economics

        You're very high right now.

        • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @12:58PM (#57550047)
          of being Conservative? If change isn't happening then they're winning.

          I think you're mixing up the radical right (alt-right?) with actual Conservatives. But even then the radical right wing is doing pretty well for themselves. There's been a massive and successful attack on gov't regulation. Much of Dodd Frank has been repealed. Most of the Obama era EPA guidelines have been eliminated or toned back. Net Neutrality is dead putting control of the internet in the hands of private industry. Mitch McConnell is even able to talk openly about ending Social Security and Medicare. These are policies the far right has wanted for decades and had to back down on.

          Meanwhile the left can't get any tracking on Medicare for All, even though a majority of Republicans [nymag.com] support it (let alone Democrats). The left are completely on the defensive in all respects. The right is winning on all fronts.
    • In a corporatist system of government, corporate censorship is state censorship. When there's no meaningful space between corporate power and government power, it doesn't make much difference whether the guy silencing your dissent is Mark Zuckerberg or Jeff Sessions. America most definitely has such a system.

      And when independent candidates run for office and can't get their message out for being shadow banned, and the corporatist candidates are always the number one trending subject, you'll be there to fi

  • by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:13AM (#57549465)

    Torba can whine all he wants, but in the free market one is free to associate, or not associate, with who they want. No one says PayPal or Google have to deal with Gab.

    As to Gab being a "conservative" social network, if conservatives believe saying Jews should die, that only white men should be in power, that women deserve to be raped, then sure, why not. Because that is what you'll find there.

    This is almost as hilarious as white supremacist Robert Rundo fleeing the country he complains is being taken over by foreigners, and being arrested in Central America. If he didn't like people who weren't white, why would he try to hide in a country where his white skin would stand out?

    • Neoliberal free markets are only free for corporate business. The rest is just free to leave or shut up.

    • In the free market, the government bails out companies that are too big to fa... wait, something's wrong here.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      If PayPal can make it effectively impossible for Gab to operate, then anti-trust laws come in to effect.

    • Because a free market is established wherever willing buyers and sellers are prevented from completing transactions by middlemen with monopoly positions. Right. We get it.

  • In two minds... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:19AM (#57549485) Journal
    On one hand, such networks allow extremely violent people to create an echo chamber and reinforce one another till some one or the other goes over board.

    On the other hand, banning such networks only drives them underground where no one can monitor them, creating an even bigger louder more resonant echo chamber.

    If it is possible for such people to openly express their views, however disturbing they might be, while at the same time remove the perverse incentives for others who make money or leverage political power off them it would be better than banning them outright.

    But it is very difficult to come up with such a solution where there are so many different players and enforcement is very difficult.

  • by Mr307 ( 49185 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:23AM (#57549505)

    All these damn trees are in the way!

    All these virtue signalling assholes have lost the plot. WE dont need to be saved, we want free speech.

    If you can't see the vile disgusting edges of speech, then you dont know where the middle is. When you hide, curtail, restrict, and lie about speech then the publics perception of it over time becomes warped and allows for true evil.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    Let the other assholes say their stupid and vile stuff and we are big enough to point our fingers and laugh at them or even take them seriously and fix it ourselves.

  • Watch CNN and it is nothing but hate towards all things Republican.

    Watch Fox and it is nothing but hate towards all things Democrat.

    The only thing that differentiates them from Social Media is they have total control of the narrative.

    • While fox quite clearly show a bias, and they gladly admit it, CNN does not necessarily has such a bias. In fact if you both er to check you will find that when it happen they also report bad things said or done by democrats. e.g. just simply example if you want like anthony wiener sexting. This isn't equivalent to fox. that Fox and some right wing people managed to bring a narrative that cnn and co and other media are democrat aligned , shows that they have managed to really control media and people far mo
  • by cHiphead ( 17854 )

    Here comes the flood of free market conservatives mad at private companies for making private decisions. LOL.

  • by SirAstral ( 1349985 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:47AM (#57549629)

    There is no service that has been created that cannot and has not been used for evil. But don't think for a moment that certain groups are not quick to recognize when one group uses the actions of the few to imply support similar desire by the whole.

    It has taken some time, but many have managed to make even liberty look like it is only a tool used for oppression.... my my my how much work must have gone into convincing people that you cannot be allowed to manage yourself and must instead have your liberties managed for you. All in the name of keeping you safe.

    Tyranny is usually though of as a problem brought on by Government agency... yet the control businesses have gained over our lives it has become clear that economically assaulting another group is more than enough to provide it's own form of tyranny.

    Perhaps other businesses should start to refuse to do business with banks that do this as well... or do they too not fear reprisal? All it takes for a business to become suspect is by mere associate with something now... whether that associate is properly represented or not. We are only going to see more and more of this as we continue down this, "those that do not think like me are evil" path. This is the mindset that gets people to agree with mass genocide of entire groups of people and when those groups feel oppressed, no matter the form that oppression takes they will discover now that when avenues of diplomacy or discussion are taken away, they become isolated... and many unfortunately feel that violence is the final resort of regaining any attention for their cause... no matter how terrible other think of them for it.

  • And Big Tech? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wjcofkc ( 964165 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @11:48AM (#57549633)
    No worries, the Giant Tech companies are not responsible for what people say on their platforms. Really this is good news. Gab itself was an innovative reaction to increasing censorship. For that matter BitChute and a few others. So fuck PayPal and Stripe. This will result in competition for them. When you shut something that large out, customers are already waiting.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      It's not censorship from the perspective of PayPal and Stripe. It's good business. Gab doesn't make PayPal and Stripe enough money to qualify for exemption to ToS.

    • "When you shut something that large out"

      You cannot be serious.
  • It's just like the way Facebook got shut down when Facebook user Alex Minassian ran over a bunch of people with a van.

  • Paypal can choose not to associate with Gab - or any other network - if they want. Nobody can force them to do business with them. Similarly if people don't like that paypal doesn't want to work with Gab any more, they are free to find another way to move money to Gab (or orthogonal to them if they encounter paypal too often in regular transactions for their own liking). There is no free speech issue here when one company decides they don't want to do business with another one.
    • True,

      And the expression, "free speech," applies only to suppression by a governing agency.

    • That depends, if they are all Creativity members talking about their church doctrine and how it relates to current affairs they are protected from discrimination.

      US Civil Rights Act and protected classes trump freedom of association after all.

  • by Thaelon ( 250687 ) on Sunday October 28, 2018 @05:33PM (#57551455)

    > catering primarily to US conservatives

    1. That's only seen as the case because they've been systematically deplatformed by twitter.

    2. The idiotic notation that there are only two political perspectives is literally six times dumber than astrology.

    I'm strongly left leaning, but more anti-authoritarian than left, so I'm seen as right wing buy left wing useful idiots because I oppose their aspirations of authority, and seen as left wing by right wing useful idiots because I oppose most of their social policy.

    Gab is laudable for their free speech support. Smearing them is more reprehensible than being the mere host of speech you don't like will ever be.

    >The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.

    —H. L. Mencken

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