In Booming Job Market, Workers Are 'Ghosting' Their Employers (washingtonpost.com) 479
A notorious millennial dating practice is starting to creep into the workplace: ghosting. Employers are noticing with increasing frequency that workers are leaving their jobs by simply not showing up and cutting off contact with their companies [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; syndicated source]. From a report: "A number of contacts said that they had been 'ghosted,' a situation in which a worker stops coming to work without notice and then is impossible to contact," the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago noted in December's Beige Book, which tracks employment trends. National data on economic "ghosting" is lacking. The term, which usually applies to dating, first surfaced in 2016 on Dictionary.com. But companies across the country say silent exits are on the rise. Analysts blame America's increasingly tight labor market. Job openings have surpassed the number of seekers for eight straight months, and the unemployment rate has clung to a 49-year low of 3.7 percent since September. Janitors, baristas, welders, accountants, engineers -- they're all in demand, said Michael Hicks, a labor economist at Ball State University in Indiana. More people may opt to skip tough conversations and slide right into the next thing.
Well, what's good for the goose is good.... (Score:5, Insightful)
If your company is going to lay you off, it's not like they give you a whole lot of notice in most cases. You turn up for work, bright and eyed and bushy tailed, only to find a Manager and HR type waiting to give you some really bad news
Sure, most places have severance, but it's not like they take your feelings into consideration so if employees are just up and leaving, that's behavior the corporation does all the time
Re:Well, what's good for the goose is good.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Have mod points, but I want some of this action today.
>Sure, most places have severance, but it's not like they take your feelings into consideration so if employees are just up and leaving, that's behavior the corporation does all the time
Oh I've had worse than that. Once worked for an IT outsourcing firm that was $20 in gas away from my house. Super early in my career, wasn't being paid much (I think $36k@year in 1998 or so)
They *could* have just let me go over the phone and mailed a check. I KNEW they were letting me go, and I even said several times, "If you're calling me into the office to let me go, just do it over the phone, no reason to call me in"
"No t0qer it isn't that, just stop by!" the owner said in a cheery voice. Came in, was fired. I raged out on my way out, flipping over chairs and spat on the owners car on my way out.
Re: Well, what's good for the goose is good.... (Score:2)
Sorry, but no (Score:5, Insightful)
If your company is going to lay you off, it's not like they give you a whole lot of notice in most cases.
Do you WANT more companies to do that?
If not why escalate like that?
Telling other people you plan to leave, is just basic human decency.
There is nothing good about either side giving the other one no warning about actions like this.
Besides, the equivalent to what YOU are talking about it not a company laying you off unexpectedly. It's more like if you kept coming to work and after two weeks you just got no paycheck, and the company said "we fired you but dd not tell you".
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Telling other people you plan to ${ fire | lay off | downsize } them is just basic human decency.
Oh, but businesses have no basic human decency.
If you were to tell an employer that you were leaving, that would give them advance opportunity to begin looking for your replacement instead of leaving them suddenly unprepared -- as they do to you.
I have known people who gave advance notice and left on great terms. And I would al
Re:Sorry, but no (Score:5, Insightful)
Telling other people you plan to ${ fire | lay off | downsize } them is just basic human decency.
Yes, and most companies I have been at do that, or at least give a decent severance to anyone let go.
So your point was????
Gee, that makes me wonder what kind of relationship employees have who just stop showing up.
It doesn't make me wonder at all. Those employees are assholes, plain and simple. It doesn't matter what the company is like, you do what you do because of who YOU ARE, not because of who THEY ARE.
If the company are an asshole and you think you are just being an asshole back by leaving without saying anything - guess what, you are BOTH assholes.
Don't be an asshole. it will be remembered, forever, by all non-assholes that work there.
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Telling other people you plan to ${ fire | lay off | downsize } them is just basic human decency.
... and nearly all companies do that. When companies do immediate layoffs with no severance it is usually because the are bankrupt and going out of business, and the "evil" managers are losing their jobs as well.
Oh, but businesses have no basic human decency.
Most of them do ... because it is good business.
Can you name a single company that, in the last decade, did a mass layoff with immediate effect and no severance?
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https://www.stltoday.com/busin... [stltoday.com]
These workers had walked off the job, hadn't come to work in a week, and had been told that their actions would push the company into bankruptcy. But you are right, somehow the company wasn't compassionate enough to give them unearned money that didn't exist.
Re:Sorry, but no (Score:4, Funny)
"We, uh, we fixed the glitch so he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore so it'll just work itself out naturally. We always like to avoid conrontation whenever possible. The problem is solved from your end."
Re:Sorry, but no (Score:4, Interesting)
I recently went to a competitor. I knew theyâ(TM)d walk me out the door ceremoniously. I saved myself the embarrassment and the company the assholishness and just resigned off-site and walked away.
My team was ready with the news and knew what to do do nothing terrible happened but why should I submit myself to the horseshit just so we can all pretend weâ(TM)re all playing nice?
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The point is you still let them know (resigned off-site). Even a phone call or text message is still basic decency of saying "I won't be coming in any more".
I'm not even saying you have to give any advance notice if a company has been particularly crappy to you (or sometimes circumstances are such that you can't give advance notice - you do what you can).
You as a human being have an obligation to yourself to be as decent as you can be. You still let them know.
It will be remembered, whichever way you choos
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Even a phone call or text message is still basic decency of saying "I won't be coming in any more".
We had a relatively new employee who was pretty good, and had been with us for a couple months. All signs pointed to her being a welcome addition. One morning her supervisor got a voice mail from her saying she was sick and wouldn't be coming in. Ok, fine. The next day he got another voice mail from her stating, "I won't be in again." Ok, fine. Must be the flu or something. Several days passed without notice and without the employee. We were left trying to figure out where she was and what was going on
Re:Sorry, but no (Score:4, Insightful)
On the other hand, plenty of 38 hr/week "part-time" employees have gotten the old you're not fired, you just didn't get any hours this week and we don't think you'll get any next week either treatment.
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Telling other people you plan to leave, is just basic human decency.
Plus even if you hate the company's management, it's only fair to your coworkers - they're the ones who will be covering your duties once you've left.
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Disposable workers == disposable employers == disposable customers. You get what you create.
That reasoning creates a race to the bottom (Score:5, Insightful)
For the best outcome, everyone has to be considerate of each other. Employers have to give employees adequate notice, and provide severance to help carry the ex-employee through while they find another job. Employees have to give their employers adequate notice, and wrap up their projects and help train their replacement employee before they leave.
Also, being a jerk to a company you work at just because another company screwed you over, is no different from a company being a jerk to an employee just because another employee screwed them over. Again, that sort of behavior just creates a race to the bottom, and is in fact the basis of all discrimination. Retribution needs to target the company or individual who wronged you, not someone else who just happens to belong to the same class, type, race, gender, etc.
Re:That reasoning creates a race to the bottom (Score:5, Insightful)
While I agree in theory with what you are saying, as the article says, this is a new thing for workers to ghost employers. In the past, most people have given notice and it is still not uncommon for companies to lay off/fire people without notice or severance. So the idea that people giving notice will make employers act better has been tried and failed. The fact is, companies can and do fire people without notice or severance, so why should employees not "fire" the companies in the same way?If a company is unhappy with you they just cut you off, if you are unhappy with your employer, you should be able to do the same.
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The purpose of severance pay is a bribe so that you don't sue for being unfairly terminated. You have to sign the legal docs before you get the extra pay.
If an employer screws around an employee, the word gets out. Over time they find it more difficult to hire quality employees. The same happens the other way, word will get out about the problem employees as well and they will find it harder to get hired.
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The few times I've been laid off, they didn't have any of that sort of "legal docs" for the two weeks severance pay.
Now, Cisco did have some legal docs. There was a fairly decent severance package without signing them. With signing them... let's just say, it was a pretty substantial bribe. Oh, yeah, where's that dotted line? Hey, do you want me to sign it twice?
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What I'm saying is that if your company treats you right, is courteous, professional, and considerate, you will in all likelihood repay that favor when it comes to you leaving. If your company mistreats you, then you are more likely to exhibit the same attitude when you leave. If everyone just considerate of each other, you wouldn't have this situation - but we all know that's not the case.
In other words, "do unto others as you would have th
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Employers will let employees go without severance or adequate notice.
You say that as if they haven't been doing this already, for a very long time now.
While I can't say that I agree with idea of ghosting (it's pretty unprofessional and risks burning bidges), I can certainly understand the motivation. Especially if it was done to the kind of employer that would sell their own mother for a wooden nickle, like far too many companies do.
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That's a bit different than showing up to work only to find that your badge doesn't work and the receptionist won't talk to you. You are told that you're laid off, and an employee should tell their employer if they're leaving as well. For instance, you would be liable to pay back any salary you receive after leaving (since they probably just think you're incapacitated in the hospital or something), and you have to give all your equipment back, and give back the badge key for sure. It's also the sort of th
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Just because they can do this, and you can do this as well, it doesn't mean it is a good idea to do it.
Because this can have unintended consequences for you.
There was this employee who just got up an quit, to never be seen again. Me as a fellow employee had to pick up his work and get things done. I have moved onto a different place to work, then I see his resume for validation...
Sure the company we both worked at sucked, but he left dumping work on me, so when I see his name I will not get the warm and fu
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But you can't just walk off with the company badge key, or keep the laptop at home, etc. Maybe the article is just talking about hourly workers, but even then you have a good chance of getting blacklisted by the union or future employers. If you're not salaried, you certainly can be sued and companies aren't shy about this.
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If you clock in and clock out, you probably would be in the clear legally.
If you are not in such a position and the checks kept coming after you stopped showing up, I could imagine a company coming after the person for wages paid after services stopped being provided.
Re:100% (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think people forget this at all. If you are professional, you want to leave with a good impression with the company. For good references, good relations with your fellow employees who may be hiring managers in the future, and if things go south, there may be an other company to get hired again with.
Re:100% (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think people forget this at all. If you are professional, you want to leave with a good impression with the company. For good references, good relations with your fellow employees who may be hiring managers in the future, and if things go south, there may be an other company to get hired again with.
The main reason you give two weeks notice is so that people have time for knowledge transfer and your co-workers can make arrangements to pick up your workload. Even if you and all of your coworkers hate your managers and company, if you ever actually did any work and then disappeared, your coworkers are going to be scrambling to pick up the pieces and cursing your name. If your intention is to screw over your coworkers there are probably better ways to do so because they're just going to blame everything on you after you disappeared anyway because its not like you'll be around to defend yourself.
The majority of the time it is in your best interest to play nice. Sadly, that isn't always reciprocated. One time I left a job I hated for a new opportunity with a big fortune 500. 9 months later I was laid off because my new employer was constantly playing musical chairs at the executive level so every month priorities would change and entire departments would get cut to the bone. I tried crawling back to my old job, but I guess my old boss was so offended when I quit that she never returned any of my calls.
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"But, but, they'd do it to me!". Oh please, grow up. If you want to be treated professionally, then be professional. If you don't get treated professionally, move on when the time is right, be professional, and never look back. Positive change doesn't come from acting first and playing tit for tat. It comes from doing what you know is right even w
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. Oh please, grow up. If you want to be treated professionally, then be professional. If you don't get treated professionally, move on when the time is right, be professional, and never look back. Positive change doesn't come from acting first and playing tit for tat. It comes from doing what you know is right even when you might not expect to see a return. What benefit does just walking out possibly have? Yeah, you might feel cool for a day or two, but you've burnt a bridge.
That all works both ways. Now,
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There was one time we wern't sure if an employee was ghosting or not. Luckily management decided to actually dig in further and realized he was suffering from a major case of depression. Where we were able to get help for him, and kept his job open.
Then there was an other guy, where we actually found out, because he went on vacation and didn't come back, while checking his desk for some work that needed to be done, we found a note under his laptop saying he had quit, and had wiped clean his laptop. (Which
at will employment goes both ways! (Score:5, Insightful)
at will employment goes both ways!
Fuck you bill I'm not working weekends after being told at 4:55 PM on Friday and go fuck your self and put that in the TPS report.
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I'm up in Canada so 'at will' doesn't apply but I have personally the cold-hearted way companies treat hard working employees, and it's brutal. I imagine for people in demand, it's not even the fact they want to avoid 'tough discussions' - it's just that there's no "relationship" with a corporation. I bet the vast majority of people who leave will miss their colleagues and the people, but no-one is missing the "corporation".
Incidentally, I've seen what happens when you try
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At-will is fine, but that means you can tell your employer "I won't be in tomorrow, I'm quitting." as you leave. It doesn't mean you don't give them any indication you're quitting. At-will is not the same as ghosting.
Omg (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't this what your emergency contact is for? So they can contact your dad or brother and tell them you've dropped off the face of the earth, go to his house to see if he's dead in front of the computer, pantsdown.
Re:Omg (Score:4, Interesting)
Isn't this what your emergency contact is for? So they can contact your dad or brother and tell them you've dropped off the face of the earth, go to his house to see if he's dead in front of the computer, pantsdown.
I actually know someone this (similar) situation happened to. Guy didn't show up for work and no one could contact him which was out of his character. They send someone to check at his house and find him dead on the floor of a heart attack. Nice guy too.
Re:Omg (Score:5, Funny)
He really did ghost his employer.
Burning bridges is not good for the resume (Score:5, Informative)
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Unless their next future boss is also a similar millennial and wouldn't call the references on the phone. I mean, having them written down is good enough. Probably.
NOPE (Score:2)
Most larger companies simply offer that the individual was employed and nothing more. Too much legal potential for libel lawsuits if they say much more....
And all they have to do is say, well, I saw them repeatedly terminate employees the same day they gave notice.
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It's also an issue if you work in an industry that has few employers, especially when such industries inevitably find those employers merging or purchasing each other.
There are a half-dozen firms here that do the kind of engineering that my wife's education and work experience apply-to. She may not intend to go back to work for a firm that she has left, but it would be foolish to ensure being ineligible for rehire when she might find it necessary or find that a company she later works for is now part of th
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While you may feel like a boss by not giving a notice to your former employer, there's a strong possibility it will come back to bite you in the arse when it's time for references.
In theory, I'm too close to retirement for "references" to be much of a motivation.
In practice, I would give notice. It's just the right thing to do. Even if they were to massively tick me off. (Which isn't likely; the company is pretty good people.)
Burning Bridges (Score:5, Insightful)
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How dare someone shop for competitive offers. Did your college placement office notify applicants that those
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Dangit. You nailed it. Completely blew by that, as demonstrated by where I asked that exact question.
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Also; in professional communities, coworkers are always aware of who the flakes are. I have had several opportunities to recommend people for positions, and I always keep in mind who's likely to embarrass me if I make that recommendation, as well as who I'd be proud to have recommended.
Thats illegal (Score:2)
Companies cannot collude to hold down wages. Apple and Google had to pay a multimillion dollar settlement because they were colluding.
He should have sued.
Seen This Before (Score:2)
This has been around at least a decade. I don't know if it was a cultural thing or a coincidence, but place I was working at about a decade ago we had three employees do this in the course of 2 months; interestingly they were all Indian (from India not Native American)- I don't know if it is part of their culture.
I remember thinking it was odd then- and I still do. One of them we found out ended up in New York, so I guess he figured what happened in smallish town South Carolina wouldn't bit him in the bu
Repost (Score:5, Informative)
Has anything changed from 6 months ago when we saw this story? [slashdot.org]
Re:Repost (Score:5, Funny)
Has anything changed from 6 months ago when we saw this story? [slashdot.org]
They had hired someone to make sure the mods never posted dupes, but they stopped showing up for work.
Heroin. (Score:2)
Heroin.
Company behavior is to blame. (Score:2)
This wouldn't happen if companies...
Paid their employees a proper wage
Didn't over work employees
Didn't fire them on a whim
The current job market is giving employees some power as they are no longer disposable. Companies are still treating employees as if they were. Ergo employees are rightfully shitting on them.
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Both ways (Score:2)
if the culture of the job is bad enough, why not collect a few extra paychecks by just leaving without notice. It's better than waiting around to be laid off because you're too old or your management doesn't value your contributions.
It's not like conditions will improve for the people left behind.
I've seen people commit employment Hari-Kari by trying to use HR to address work issues. (Hint: HR doesn't work for you, and your complaints are not confidential, no matter what they tell you)
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why not collect a few extra paychecks by just leaving without notice
If you don't fill in your time-sheet, you're not going to get paid. If you do (or are "salaried" and don't complete a time sheet) you might be committing fraud. In addition, if you have direct deposit, the company can also debit those over-paid funds from your account. If you're going this route, it would better burn your vacation and/or other paid time off, *then* just give notice you're leaving immediately.
It's better than waiting around to be laid off ...
Um... I got laid off and received $$$ in severance and my first few months of COBRA paid for by t
Back in the 1990s... (Score:4, Interesting)
Back in the 1990s, if you didn't switch employers every two or so years, you were considered someone who wasn't willing to "grow".
After the dot.bomb crash, you were a job hopper.
I never screwed over an employer - a couple screwed me over, though. But sticking to the high ground pays off. Future employers will realize they were dicks to you - some were ALSO screwed over - RIGHT fellow IBM'ers?!
Follow the Golden Rule as Confucius wrote over 3,000 years ago, and it'll work out in the end.
Yeah, there are some assholes out there who think you should sell your soul to your employer; but most? Nope.
Give two weeks notice - if it's that horrible that you have to leave immediately, consult a labor attorney and then listen to his advice.
Been through this shit and many asshole employers (And mostly great ones), and let me tell you, we workers are ALWAYS at a disadvantage.
Even if there are no consequences (Score:2)
There is a certain level of self-respect in maintaining professional behavior.
And miss out on cake? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why leave like that? You miss out on cake, and sincere heartfelt wishes from your fellow employees, as well as earnest conversations about “we must catch up some time soon”.
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Ummm.... excuse me, but I did not receive a slice of birthday cake...
I can't say I'm upset (Score:2)
So the "gig economy" isn't just a one way street. Good. There are some good employers out there, but there are a lot more who have been mercilessly screwing over their employees for years. If some of them get a little of their own medicine back, I'm all for it. I'm lucky. My current employer is amazing, and I'd bend over backward to help them out. A place where I worked earlier in my career, though, was a different story...vile people running a crooked operation. If I heard their head of HR had cance
Oh for Fucks sakes (Score:2)
This means folks are leaving jobs so crappy they want to burn their bridges. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're going off to greener pastures.
All kinds of stories (Score:2)
Goose, meet gander. (Score:2)
While not exactly the same thing, I've had in-person interviews with companies where they later simply changed my status to "not selected" on my application without giving/sending me any other notification -- no phone call or email. I only found out when I logged into my account on their career site. I can see this when one has simply submitted an application and nothing else has happened, but I actually met and talked to people, usually several, in person, at their office. How hard is it to send an email
Professionalism matters (Score:2)
I fully admit I'm old school at 43 years old. I'm not a hipster full stack developer stroking my goatee and downing another Red Bull so I can spend 7 more hours debugging JavaScript or Go or whatever my startup's phone app back end is running. But one thing I have experienced is cyclical labor markets. Being a professional may be looked down on today, but I think this is what allows people to survive in the down-swings of these cycles. 1998-2000 was almost exactly like this in the tech world...the only diff
Quitting on the day the contract ended (Score:3)
Good (Score:5, Informative)
The companies deserve it.
In the 1944-1974 period, the split between capital and labor was 50:50 (you kept half of the profit from productivity gains from your work).
In the 1974-2018 period, the split between capital and labor was 90:10 (you get 10 cents of the extra dollar profit your employer "earned" from your work). Frequently that was less than increased costs of living for employees.
Ghost away!
ANYONE (Score:5, Insightful)
Who in the recent decade of depression saw numerous companies a) let workers go with little to no warning and no compensation or b) witnessed the extremely common scenario where an employee informs their employer they are taking a new job, gives their two weeks notice, and are immediately escorted out the building and left with no job for two weeks.
Companies keep trying to pull shit on employees. I don't think these greedy CEO's realize that there are consequences for their policies. If employers fail to respect 2 weeks notice, than they cannot expect their employees to do so. If corporations find every loophole and means to pay their employees less regardless of the effect on their employees. Than employers can't complain when those same folks keep jumping jobs for more money - if YOU make it ALL about money, than expect it to be all about MONEY.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: ANYONE (Score:5, Insightful)
So just say, "I quit". No need to passively aggressively disappear, leading people on a social media chase to see if you're just dealing with a family emergency, or got hit by a car or whatever.
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Re:ANYONE (Score:5, Interesting)
Then these companies want to do an exit interview to figure out why you're leaving and make you feel guilty
I have never heard of an exit interview trying to make anyone feel guilty. If they are going to try to convince you to stay, that would happen before the exit interview.
I have quit a few jobs. Each time I gave them a several page document that explained what I saw as the problems in their company and what I thought they should do to fix things. In at least one instance, many of my suggestions were implemented, and several of my ex-coworkers thanked me for writing the document, which management had circulated around the company.
Try to be part of the solution, instead of just a whiner.
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Re:ANYONE (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would you give sound, actionable, FREE advice to your shitty ex-employer.
Because they actually weren't that shitty. They were trying to do the right thing, but just failing at it.
There are plenty of people that need to learn to do their jobs better, but they are not malicious or uncaring, just incompetent.
In Hollywood movies, bad things happen because evil people make them happen. Real life is rarely like that.
Re:ANYONE (Score:5, Interesting)
You are naive. No company cares about you, they only care about money. If you provide ANYTHING to a company, you should demand payment for it.
I have over 30 years of experience in tech, mostly in Silicon Valley, but also a few years working for defense contractors in northern Virginia, and several years in East Asia (China and Japan). I am not naive.
During that time I have formed many deep friendships with managers, and with people I managed. The people at the companies I worked for certainly seemed to care about me, about my family, and about my professional development. Nearly everyone I have worked with has been decent and constructive.
I have also met a few cynical shitheads who contribute nothing, and often get themselves into toxic situations that confirm their world view. You sound like one of these.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ANYONE (Score:4, Informative)
Most people (80%) are employed by small businesses. That's a statistical fact.
Are you just making up numbers? Just calling it a fact doesn't make it a fact. The Small Business Administration [sba.gov] says that small businesses represent 49.2% of employment and 42.9% of payrolls. Do you have a source for your 80% number? It seems like the SBA would have pretty good statistics on something like that.
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"Then these companies want to do an exit interview to figure out why you're leaving and make you feel guilty for leaving because you're not showing showing dedication to company and team spirit. Fuck them"
Whenever HR has asked me for an exit interview, I've sent them a meeting request for lunch at an expensive restaurant.
I've never been bothered after that.
Re:ANYONE (Score:4, Informative)
I've worked for companies that have given notice to employees that their jobs will be discontinued in n months. Re-orgs and the like. And I've never had a company escort me out on the day I turned in my two-week notice (at least without paying me).
You're right--I've had days when I've come into work and I was laid off. Not a great day, granted. But at least they told me. Yes, the boss came into the conference room and said we were laid off, turned the meeting over to the HR person and walked out.
Ghosting is sort of the equivalent of showing up at the front door and finding the company is no longer there. Or, worse yet, not telling you you're fired and hoping you'll just figure it out.
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I've never had a company escort me out on the day I turned in my two-week notice (at least without paying me).
I've seen two week notice get shown the door immediately, but there was bad blood between management and that person leading to that moment.
Ghosting is sort of the equivalent of showing up at the front door and finding the company is no longer there
I've walked by that happening, when I worked in a shared workspace there were employees milling about a locked door and ultmately someone manages to get a hold of someone and finds out that indeed, the jobs are gone and the company was out of money.
Or, worse yet, not telling you you're fired and hoping you'll just figure it out.
"Dom Portwood: So um, Milton has been let go?
Bob Slydell: Well just a second there, professor. We uh, we fixed the *glitch*
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People marched out the door are paid their two weeks' notice period. This is a good policy for some roles, to remove the risk of data spillage and to avoid lowering morale in the remaining coworkers.
Re:ANYONE - what happened to humanity? (Score:2)
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THIS
Twice in my life I have given 2 weeks notice at the end of a day.
Twice in my life I was 'fired' the next morning.
The assholes actually made me drive all the way into work, get in through the door, and THEN fired me with no pay for the lost time.
Never again.
Business (and the laws they buy) now reaps what it sows.
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It has happened to me both ways. I gave the company two weeks notice and that afternoon I was fired. At which point I went out to the parking lot, got in my car, and drove home. It was a company car. ... of course, I then arranged with a former co-worker to drive me home after I got my stuff out of the car and drove it back to the office.
The next place I worked, at essentially the same job, was very different. After I gave them notice I was asked to spend my time getting everything in order and taking my re
Re:ANYONE (Score:4, Interesting)
The WARN act in California only applies to layoffs/closures/relocations of more than some number/percentage of workers. It does not apply, for example, to individual "for cause" which is commonly used to get around the WARN acts - suddenly workers who have been getting good performance reviews for years, without warning, are told that their performance isn't good enough and they are being let go.Of course, this happens in waves that look suspiciously like layoffs by another name.
Re:Who would do this? (Score:5, Insightful)
<Platitudes>
Try not to burn your bridges after you cross them. Because the grass only seems greener from the other side.
</Platitudes>
While there is an employment shortage, this isn't a long term issue, and the market will move from an employees market back to an employers market. So if that great new job you got turns sour (because they gave you too much more then what you are actually worth, because of employee scarcity) You may be out of a job, and the company that seemed to suck so much, may still have a spot for you, because its conservative investments meant such a turn in the market didn't hurt them as much.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Given that I've never even seen the same employer under 100 employees advertise the same job twice, it's pretty hard NOT to end up burning bridges, but this ghosting seems to take it to a whole new level.
Although, for a salaried employee with automatic deposit whose manager isn't paying much attention, it could be a profitable move, as you'd likely get a couple of pay periods out before they notice your job isn't being done.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Given that I've never even seen the same employer under 100 employees advertise the same job twice, it's pretty hard NOT to end up burning bridges, but this ghosting seems to take it to a whole new level.
I think you are confused. Leaving a job doesn't have to result in burned bridges. It is possible to leave a job without burning bridges.
Re:Who would do this? (Score:4, Interesting)
Leaving a job doesn't burn the bridge. However most of the time people will not reapply back to the same company, unless it is large enough (over 100 employees) where there is a better position for them, because of their job growth withing that period of time in the middle.
2 out of 3 employers that I have worked for are out of business/sold merged to a different company. While I joke that I probably should had left better documents, most of the time the reason those companies had those issue was due leadership deciding to retire.
Re: (Score:2)
Or that new job you're trying to land might try calling your old position and find out you ghosted them when you left. Then the new company will be less likely to hire you.
Re:Who would do this? (Score:4, Informative)
Or that new job you're trying to land might try calling your old position and find out you ghosted them when you left. Then the new company will be less likely to hire you.
Okay maybe this is me, but it's completely normal to ask the people interviewing you to hold off on contacting your current employer until a written offer is made. I've never had a company that I went to work for that didn't honor that. What the hell kind of shitty jobs are you thinking folks are going to apply to, because if they trust you that little walking in the door, it's probably best to just walk away anyway.
Additionally, right to work states. Being in a right to work state means the employer or the employee may terminate the position at any time for any reason or no reason at all. So you literally have States that promote ghosting as being completely normal.
Re: (Score:3)
Not really. Most states forbid previous employers from disclosing anything beyond, "Did X person work here?" and "Are they re-hirable?" Many companies try to get around that by asking for managerial references because the manager can then be counted as a personal reference that can disclose whatever they want. The last company I left actually straight up told me they wouldn't disclose anything to another employer just to avoid any possible liability from it, and I left on good terms with them. Basically
Re: (Score:3)
I worked for a company that ran out of money, and that they couldn't pay our upcoming paychecks. I left and didn't return, but apparently everyone else kept coming to work and eventually they formed a new company, leaving the original investors with nothing. The CEO kept phoning me but I only communicated with the bankruptcy administrator from that point on.
Re: (Score:3)
I know someone who kept in contact with the CEO in a similar situation. It worked out great for them - they got like 2 months salary as a lump sum, decided to take a quick beach vacation to a beach, and came back to to the legal reformation complete with new solid investors and the same job for more money.
Re: (Score:2)
You witnessed someone being done a favor, at the expense of your department's budget, put on the books without any expectation to show up, in a job that's very difficult to define personal employee benchmarks/metrics for. That's not the same as ghosting.
Whom in upper management was this person related to, having sexual intercourse with, or blackmailing? Because I can't think of another reason why this person would be placed on the payroll for a job that they're not doing unless they somehow had leverage o
Re: At will employment (Score:5, Informative)
> You think that shit does not get around?
It's very easy for a young employee to think that the industry is just an endless field of hot-swappable engineers and developers. Especially in certain markets (SF, Seattle, etc.) I hear there are thousands of nearly-identical openings. Never forget that it's very possible for that list of thousands to go down to a couple hundred, right after a massive tech company dumps 50,000 engineers onto the street in one shot (HP/HPE/CSC is a perfect example, or the mass firings at Microsoft.)
People talk. The industry is smaller than you think. If you're in any sort of specialty that makes you less hot-swappable, the talent pool and list of employers gets smaller. Companies have no-hire lists and acting like a jerk either on your way in or out is a good way to get on them.
Re: (Score:3)
No. A company has to give you a correct W2 by Jan 31st/Feb 1st or they face some serious penalties from the government.
Now, a valid error would probably be excused (transposition of digits, etc.) but a group of quitting employees all getting massive errors...