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In Some Bay Area Counties, College Grads Have Higher Unemployment (mercurynews.com) 272

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Higher education is supposed to be the ticket to employment. But in some Bay Area counties, workers with a high school diploma have lower unemployment rates than those with bachelor's degrees or higher. From a report: Experts suggested the Bay Area's backwards numbers, which run counter to the national trend, could be the result of too-few lower-wage workers, many of whom have been driven out by skyrocketing housing prices and the rising cost of living. "We have employers call us all the time (saying), 'I'm looking for low-wage, entry-level workers,'" said Kris Stadelman, director of NOVA Workforce Development in Sunnyvale. But there are few workers willing to take on those positions who don't already have jobs, she said.

In Santa Clara County, the heart of Silicon Valley, the unemployment rate for workers with a high school degree is 3.3 percent, compared to a 3.6 percent rate for workers with a bachelor's degree or higher, according to the U.S. Census Bureau's 2017 American Community Survey, which measures unemployment by educational attainment for workers between 25 and 64 years old. The same situation exists in two other Bay Area counties -- Marin and Sonoma -- where workers with at least a bachelor's degree don't have the lowest unemployment rate.

The trend is starkest in Sonoma County, where workers without a high school degree have a 0.2 percent unemployment rate compared to a 4.4 percent rate for workers with a bachelor's degree or higher. Workers with a high school diploma in that county have an unemployment rate of 2.8 percent. Statewide, workers with a high school diploma have an unemployment rate of 6.2 percent, nearly double the 3.5 percent rate of those with a bachelor's or higher.
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In Some Bay Area Counties, College Grads Have Higher Unemployment More

In Some Bay Area Counties, College Grads Have Higher Unemployment

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  • Not news. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27, 2018 @04:27PM (#57867654)

    Most college degrees have been worthless for 20 years, this is not news. Entering a trade right after high school and making money during your most productive years is MUCH better than spending that time going into six-figure debt for a worthless piece of paper. Higher education turned into a racket during the 1990's, probably before.

    • Re:Not news. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by DarkRookie2 ( 5551422 ) on Thursday December 27, 2018 @04:32PM (#57867676)
      I make more now working in a office than I would've made as an electrician.
      Also, the hours sucked. It is brutal to work in Florida outside in the summer. Or where there is nothing to move air. Also, much higher chance of dying on the job.

    • Re:Not news. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by poet ( 8021 ) on Thursday December 27, 2018 @04:32PM (#57867682) Homepage

      "Most" is probably the "most" inaccurate statement in the world on this.

      It is true you don't need a degree to be a fantastic Pythonista. Try getting a job as a discrete graphics engineer, nurse, teacher, or accountant without a degree. It is true that Trades are a great way to go as well but even most trades have a required educational component.

      • Re: Not news. (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I do not have a degree and I work as a graphics driver engineer at the top discreet graphics company.

        An education is vital for my role, but a slip of paper from an accredited University is not strictly necessary. My experience is that being self taught was a lower cost but more work in order to rise to a similar level of experise. If you can afford University, then go. It's a less turmoilous path than that of maverick.

    • It isn't clear that "We have employers call us all the time (saying), 'I'm looking for low-wage, entry-level workers,'" means "skilled tradesmen wanted"; rather than "local housing prices mean that everyone as cheap as I want my labor to be has either moved away or is already working 3.5 jobs to make rent".

      This isn't to say that a BA in something that's not terribly marketable is a better idea than relevant trade experience and qualification(it often isn't); but "looking for low-wage, entry-level workers
    • Obviously you didn't understand the article. What they point out is that the people who don't have college degrees have been forced out of the area due to the high cost of living. The ones that are left are in high demand because they are willing to work for lower wages. The people with college degrees are looking for higher wages and thus are likely to be unemployed. The college degreed people could take those lower wage jobs if they wanted them and be fully employed, but they are looking for something bet

    • Um... my kid's in college right now (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday December 27, 2018 @05:58PM (#57868048)
      for Nursing. All told it's going to cost me about $140k for 4 years (tuition, books, room, board, the car I had to buy her because it's physically impossible to take a bus from her morning classes to her clinicals in time, etc). Starting salary will be between $50-$70k/yr depending on the job she takes and where she takes it.

      A trade pays $9/hr to start, $15/hr after a few years and then tops out at $25/hr. I did a stint as an electrician's apprentice so I'm pretty familiar (cut those numbers by about 30% for inflation and you know where I was at). You're gonna top out around $50k/yr, which is where my kid _starts_. Over 40-60 years of work that will add up fast. Not to mention she will have much, much better benefits.

      Heck, if you're a teacher in it for the money you can start around $40k/yr as long as you're willing to move and/or commute to a wealthy district (the way districts are funded means if you want to teach in a poor neighborhood because you grew up there plan on getting shafted).

      I see a lot of folks saying a degree ain't worth it, but it always seems to be the kind of folks who don't want to pay for kids to go to school. It's expensive as hell ($140k in my case and I'm cutting corners) so I get where they're coming from, but this is why our country gets flooded with H1-Bs. It lets the companies go to Congress and say "Well, we wanted to hire American, but we just can't find anyone with the _skills_ we need".

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Kjella ( 173770 )

        Um... my kid's in college right now for Nursing. (...) You're gonna top out around $50k/yr, which is where my kid _starts_. Over 40-60 years of work that will add up fast.

        Well, you also have to remember that those who go straight to work have already been paid for several years before she gets her first paycheck and if that had been a loan she'd also be paying interest eating away at the higher pay and making the same money in fewer years puts you in a higher tax bracket. Sure, higher education pays off eventually but the break-even period is often considerable and so many families can't really afford to look that far ahead. I'm closing in on 40 now and it's really the 20 ye

    • You obviously didn't read the summary. In the Bay Area, there's not enough people to fill low wage entry level jobs, probably because you can't possibly hope to survive on that wage in that area. People with more education could take those jobs if they wanted, but they're choosing not to. If you look at the country wide stats you'll see that the trend reverses, and those with more education have drastically lower unemployment rates.

      Also, if the first few years immediately after high school are your most pro

    • Most college degrees have been worthless for 20 years, this is not news. Entering a trade right after high school and making money during your most productive years is MUCH better than spending that time going into six-figure debt for a worthless piece of paper.

      Yeah, bias and stupid have definitely replaced reading the summary, let alone reading the article.

      The shortage isn't about the trades, but rather low-skill, low-wage, entry level positions. (The trades are generally skilled, higher wage posi

  • Low wage jobs are dead end jobs without future. No pay raises, no bonuses, most if the pay health care don't pay enough to cover the high deductibles and high copays of the coverage provided.

    Low wage jobs are a dead end and everyone knows it. Who wants to be stuck in a dead end job never earning more money?

    It is why the trades are suffering so. Everyone needs HVAC or plumber. However those jobs are basically mean food stamps for life unless you are the owner.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • > Low wage jobs are dead end jobs without future

      When I was much younger, I certainly worked various low wage jobs. They kept food in the house and the utilities running while I studied or built up some resources to move. If I may, "the future" for such jobs is something to develop on your personal time, not in the workplace, though there are some useful skills to learn even in the lowest wage work.

  • Not just the Bay Area. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by BitterOak ( 537666 ) on Thursday December 27, 2018 @04:44PM (#57867722)
    I think it's true just about everywhere. The old saying "More learnin', less earnin'," is truer now than it ever was.
    • This is an inversion of unemployment rate, not an inversion of average income [smartasset.com].

      I doubt this is caused by an excess of demand for unskilled workers (waiters, dish washers, burger flippers, etc). It's probably caused by a shortage of unskilled workers. If housing prices have risen so much that it's impossible for unskilled workers to afford to live in those areas, then there won't be enough of them to fill all the jobs requiring little or no skills. The solution is either to build more housing to lower h

      • There's another option: Improve transport so that unskilled workers can commute in from further away. The unskilled workers won't like it, because no-one likes spending three hours a day commuting, but it'll keep wages low which is what a lot of people want.

    • I'm 41 and I've never heard that phrase in my life. Hell, if you google the phrase [google.com] you mostly find articles telling you how valuable a college degree is (with a few that mention it's less valuable if you grew up poor, but it's still more valuable than hitting the workforce after high school).

      Maybe if you grew up in the 70s with a big, Unionized manufacturing plant down the street, but that was almost 50 years ago. Those days are gone. The only thing left to kids without degrees is Walmart, $18/hr jobs i

    • Re:Not just the Bay Area. (Score:4, Informative)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday December 28, 2018 @05:24AM (#57869462)

      That's called observer bias. The idea that dropping out and learning a trade is a road to riches is just daft and ignores the realities of trade industries:

      Those who make it big:
      - Run their own business, and don't play with a welding machine or a socket outlet.
      - Work for a major company as staff on a large plant often in the middle of bumshart nowhere, and are lucky to have gotten this competitive and sought after role.

      Those who you *think* have made it big:
      - The guy who charges you $80/h labour while you ignore the fact that he wastes half the day driving between jobs and will not be fully booked.
      - The guy who is loaded in cash today but can't make ends meet tomorrow because the majority of trade based industries are peak and trough cycles.

      And above all: You're looking in the bay area and extrapolating. Sorry to burst your bubble, but unless you have a useless degree in golf course management or art critiquing you'll pretty much find work anywhere in the world.

  • Would be interested to know if those counties are still "backwards" when U-6 unemployment is used instead of U-3. Maybe.

  • The high-school grads that couldn't get a job without a college degree probably ended up going to college (which you can do relatively cheaply in CA thanks to socially liberal policies) and working work-study jobs (no longer unemployed).

    It's not that "college education causes unemployment", it's that the high-school grads that aren't able to get a long-term job with only an HS education typically continue their education, thus removing themselves from the "HS grads only" group.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by skam240 ( 789197 )

      "It's not that "college education causes unemployment", it's that the high-school grads that aren't able to get a long-term job with only an HS education typically continue their education, thus removing themselves from the "HS grads only" group."

      The situation is not even remotely close to either of the two scenarios you describe. The only reason why you'd even mention these two is if you are either completely ignorant in regards to California's rental and housing markets or are just not thinking at all. Se

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday December 27, 2018 @05:43PM (#57868006)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Hold the phone (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Thursday December 27, 2018 @05:44PM (#57868010) Journal

    The trend is starkest in Sonoma County

    Sonoma County is rural. Of course there are more jobs for people without degrees. You don't need that masters in CS degree to pick fucking grapes.

    I'm not sure this phenomenon has anything to do with the value of a college education, or the number of H1B visas. It might just be a highly localized issue. Let's keep reading...

    Statewide, workers with a high school diploma have an unemployment rate of 6.2 percent, nearly double the 3.5 percent rate of those with a bachelor's or higher.

    See what I mean?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by skam240 ( 789197 )

      I live in Sonoma County, it's not that rural. This has nothing to do with what you're going on about and everything to do with sky high rents. It's $2k for a 2 bedroom place here. What service level worker can afford that even with a roommate?

      • I live in Sonoma County, it's not that rural.

        The primary industries of Sonoma County are agriculture and hospitality. You don't need a college degree to clean a room in a bed & breakfast or to bus tables. Emerging industries in Sonoma County are manufacturing craft beverages, specialty foods and outdoor recreation.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by skam240 ( 789197 )

          I have no interest in even looking up data on what you're telling me because nothing you're saying refutes my high rent and property value rebuttal

          • I have no interest in even looking up data on what you're telling me because nothing you're saying refutes my high rent and property value rebuttal

            You think $2k a month is high for a 2 bedroom place? That's about what it would cost you in Houston, less than Chicago, much less than New York. Do you think those places only have college-educated people living there?

            Rents are on the high end throughout California, and yet, if you read the last line of the summary:

            Statewide, workers with a high school diploma

  • If you only have a high school education, you're almost bound to leave an area that's so expensive to live in, because you have ZERO chance of a high paying job. But if you have a degree, you've got some chance of being able to grab one, so you will not give up so quickly. Therefore unemployment among the educated will be higher.

  • Entry-level workers CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE THERE! Of course there aren't enough of them, the only ones available are the ones still living with their parents!

  • The most important question not asked... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by negated ( 981743 ) on Thursday December 27, 2018 @07:56PM (#57868454)

    ...what do these unemployable graduates have degrees in?

    Something useful that is a marketable skill that would lead to a decent job or a graduate degree in interpretive dance theory?

  • Historically 3.3 or 3.6% unemployment is as close to full employment as you can get. Those last 3.3 or 3.6% that are still unemployed are mostly just unemployable. In the middle of 2018 there were more jobs than people looking for jobs in the US (the first time in history). I tried to hire an electrician and a plumber this year, and I could tell it was hard to get hold of anyone. They'd just ghost your, or you had to know someone personally to get them to come. If you're in the bay area with lots of pe
  • You need them both. I think that some people get into computers, but their only interest is money. They have no natural talent, because their only interest in computers happens on Friday, on the way to the bank.

  • Who wants low wages. Pay people and they will come. Just like in public education.

  • This statistic is seriously flawed. It only counts those who can afford to stay despite being unemployed, which is unlikely if you worked at very low-wage job and had little or no savings.

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