California Lawmaker Wants to Ban Paper Receipts, Require Digital Ones (cnbc.com) 300
A California assemblyman has introduced a law barring retailers from printing paper receipts unless a customer requests one. Otherwise they'd be required to provide proof-or-purchase receipts "only in electronic form."
: An anonymous reader quotes CNBC: Stores that give out printed receipts without first being asked by the customer could be subject to fines [of $25 per day, up to $300 per year].... Proponents of the bill say the legislation would help reduce waste as well as contaminants in the recycling stream from toxins often used to coat the paper-based receipts... Up to 10 million trees and 21 billion gallons of water are used annually in the U.S. to create receipts, according to Green America, a green ecology organization. It said receipts annually generate 686 million pounds of waste and 12 billion pounds of carbon dioxide, or the equivalent of 1 million cars on the road...
Then again, the use of electronic receipts raises some privacy concerns since retailers usually require an email address for an electronic receipt and companies will then be able to potentially track and collect more data about customers.
If the bill passes, digital receipts would become California's default option on January 1, 2022.
: An anonymous reader quotes CNBC: Stores that give out printed receipts without first being asked by the customer could be subject to fines [of $25 per day, up to $300 per year].... Proponents of the bill say the legislation would help reduce waste as well as contaminants in the recycling stream from toxins often used to coat the paper-based receipts... Up to 10 million trees and 21 billion gallons of water are used annually in the U.S. to create receipts, according to Green America, a green ecology organization. It said receipts annually generate 686 million pounds of waste and 12 billion pounds of carbon dioxide, or the equivalent of 1 million cars on the road...
Then again, the use of electronic receipts raises some privacy concerns since retailers usually require an email address for an electronic receipt and companies will then be able to potentially track and collect more data about customers.
If the bill passes, digital receipts would become California's default option on January 1, 2022.
Law needs some privacy protections ... (Score:5, Insightful)
(1) Paper receipts should be required if the customer asks
(2) Electronic receipts shouldn't require the customer to provide any information other than an email address ("burner" emails are easy to get).
Of course, this is only a proposal -- lots of things get proposed in CA without many of them actually becoming law.
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No one is going to type out their email address just to get a receipt. Just attach it to the credit card itself, and if you pay with cash, you get a paper receipt. Require credit card companies to give you the option to opt out for that card and then you always get a paper receipt. Done.
Re:Law needs some privacy protections ... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Any solution that involves a QR code is automatically garbage. Nobody scans QR codes. They're annoying, hard to use, half or more of the people don't understand them. And it would require ever store to be hooked up to the internet and record every sale. Not to mention anyone else standing nearby could capture the QR code. I can't begin to count how many ways this idea is idiotic.
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Stores already record every sale; it's almost required.
And they need to be connected to the internet to even process a credit card.
Hence the string of codes at the bottom with the date, transaction number, till number, etc; to prevent someone from returning the same item using a duplicate receipt. Or to go to the back office and search by credit card. Even the 4-employee store I worked at had such a basic entry-level system.
One just needs to take a photo of a 2D barcode, whether it be a bar-code, a QR-c
Re:Law needs some privacy protections ... (Score:5, Interesting)
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All the necessary data could be encoded in the QR code, or transferred via NFC (which doesn't require the phone to give up any identifiers etc.)
It would be better for stores too as they could include a signature to verify the transaction and prevent the creation of fake receipts. In practice they probably won't enforce it though, because "computer says no" is not good customer service.
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Considering many people are now using NFC for payment anyway, it seems like you might as well send a receipt over at the same time. Obviously if you wrapped your card in tinfoil then a paper receipt (that you can easily burn after reading) is probably best.
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If your goal is to eliminate recipts, so companies don't have to care about quality control- then this helps that goal.
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Electronic receipts shouldn't even touch the internet. They should be beamed via NFC, Bluetooth, Wifi Direct, etc. from the register to your phone.
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You can ask for a paper receipt, just like the article states.
As long as the government pays... (Score:2, Insightful)
...for the iPhone and internet connection needed to go digital I'd go along with it.
Re:As long as the government pays... (Score:5, Informative)
CVS receipts should be the first to be banned (Score:2)
I got a five feet long receipt/coupon today.
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I know, it's not like anybody who hates their waste can shop elsewhere.
Alternative? (Score:2)
Ok, so they're going to force everyone to have a smart phone or laptop to bring to the store or other locations as proof of purchase?
Do they think everyone has one or can afford to have one?
Is that better than a small piece of paper, both recyclable and convenient?
Is receipt waste a big issue in California?
Are they really thinking this through?
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RTFA - paper receipts will still be legal, just not given by default. If you don't have a smartphone but have an e-receipt, you could probably still print it out (with some sort of QR code for authentication) to make a return.
And what about the burden it puts on small mom and pop shops, to have to send a digital receipt AND keep an electronic copy of the receipt (along with the backups, maintenance, etc of the data)? This is an extremely bad idea.
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All that burden already exists in order to accept CC transactions.
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Mom and Pop stores are the LEAST of the problem. In Miami, at least, "Mom and Pop" neighborhood stores were using computers with cash register software and digital signature capture for credit card purchases YEARS before big companies like Walmart, Publix, and Blockbuster were.
Why? A big company like Walmart, Publix, and Blockbuster has to make large-scale IT decisions that are nationwide in scope, require months of research and bureaucracy, and take lots of time to deploy. A small business owner says "fuck
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Mom and Pop stores are the LEAST of the problem. In Miami, at least, "Mom and Pop" neighborhood stores were using computers with cash register software and digital signature capture for credit card purchases YEARS before big companies like Walmart, Publix, and Blockbuster were.
Why? A big company like Walmart, Publix, and Blockbuster has to make large-scale IT decisions that are nationwide in scope, require months of research and bureaucracy, and take lots of time to deploy. A small business owner says "fuck it", he's making one decision for himself, and if spending an extra $250 or so means he won't have to screw with paper receipts anymore when the credit card company does a chargeback on him, he'll spend it in an instant because it makes his life immeasurably easier. It's a lot easier for ten thousand small businesses to make ten thousand individually small decisions than it is for one very large company to make a very big decision that affects ten thousand locations.
Yeah, except the large companies are already doing shit like this. Every time I go to Home Depot, they ask me if I'd like an email receipt. Walmart doesn't (well, I don't shop there, but I've heard) ask because it'd just slow their process of making more money.
And I don't buy your argument re: mom and pop shops being able to do this without any extra overhead (or as little as $250) because they already use computers to run their cash register. You're thinking of a "boutique" with millennial owners. When
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I don't know how you could argue that.
He wants it to be true, therefore it is his truth.
This is where we fucking are now. Fuckers just make shit up (and yes, the fucker did just make shit up) and then argue how the world should change because his fucking lie is more important than facts.
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It's minuscule as a percentage of their operating cost, but it's a HUGE amount of money in absolute terms. And mega corporations have a completely different set of priorities than small businesses. A large corporation will replace 75,000 24 month old laptops because their warranties expired and not think twice. A small business might have 5 laptops, each and every one of which is a different make & model. A mega corporation manages its computers remotely, using scripts and expensive utilities and manage
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The quick answer to the last, given that it is the California State Legislature, is no, of course.
Sacramento is like Mos Eisley - a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
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There was a noticeably longer wait at places like Starbucks when they introduced those chip readers. Imagine what would happen if people had to say their email addresses.
No, that's cocksucker seven eight nine then the number four spelled out at hotmail dot com
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There's no need for the government to get involved at all. Businesses will slowly transition to email because it's cheaper for them. If consumers hate it because it takes much longer to check out, then they will find some way to improve that experience, such as tying your email to your credit card or just switch over to mobile payments.
Nearing the tipping point. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Nearing the tipping point. (Score:5, Insightful)
Native Californian (San Diegan) here and I agree with you about the tipping point.
There are a whole host of factors going on here. I don't think it's irreversable (the pendulum always swings back), but we're reaching a tipping point of absurdity no doubt. In no particular order, some of the causes might be:
* Silicon Valley tax revenue flooding the state budget, allowing it to undertake expensive projects w/o much thought
* Progressive Millennials sorting themselves out of the rest of the country and wanting to stay in urban areas more than usual
* Gen-X and Boomers moving out or cashing out their homes to retire elsewhere where money lasts longer
* Trump fatigue lowering voter enthusiasm among moderate-conservative Californians outside the central valley
* Trump anger increasing turnout among young progressives, turning the blue parts of CA really, really, really blue
San Diego in particular is experiencing this. Although coastal CA from the Bay to LA has been pretty progressive for a long time, San Diego has traditionally been comparatively pretty moderate. A strong military presence and a very laid back attitude toward life has kept a moderate status quo in effect for a very long time. Compared to the rest of CA cities, crime is low, the pace is relaxed, commerce is good as a tourist town, and we're not directly connected to the urban morass of Greater Los Angeles, being separated from OC by 20 miles of Camp Pendleton and from the rest of the country by deserts, forests, and mountains. Our County Board of Supervisors went through about 15 years were all 5 incumbents kept getting reelected not because of advantage, but because everything was just going pretty well.
That's changed just recently in 2016 and now much more so in 2018. Suddenly the city council is controlled by a veto-proof majority of 6/9 Democrats, and the regional planning council (SANDAG) was re-constituted after an accounting scandal to give the City of San Diego almost veto control over the other cities in the county when it comes to long term transit planning and the like.
The result has been a swath of relatively left-wing movements that have left a lot of longer-term San Diegans slightly bewildered. Banning of styrofoam and straws; a completely laughable goal of having 20% of all commute traffic done by bike by ~2025 (which is insane -- San Diego is incredibly hilly without many flat biking routes) has caused the council to convert car lanes to bike lanes in a "build it and they will come" notion; and a few other notably questionable decisions have ensued.
In contrast to the rest of the state, San Diego still officially has a realistic view on the border situation, but it may just be a matter of time until the council adopts an attitude more in line with the "sanctuary" position. I think *THAT* might be the last straw and cause a push back from the "silent majority" of San Diegans who would prefer the more moderate policies status quo ante, but it'll be hard to tell until then.
What I can say right now is that a lot of California isn't as blue as the noisiest folks, and I'm hoping the tipping point into absurdity results in a reaction among the residents who think the state has gone too far, regardless of their views on the rest of national politics.
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In contrast to the rest of the state, San Diego still officially has a realistic view on the border situation,
What is a realistic view on the border situation?
Re:Nearing the tipping point. (Score:5, Insightful)
In contrast to the rest of the state, San Diego still officially has a realistic view on the border situation,
What is a realistic view on the border situation?
That Operation Gatekeeper [wikipedia.org] in the '90s was a success, and that barriers/fences/walls/whatever function as a deterrent to illegal crossing, which is not something that should be encouraged.
San Ysidro is the busiest land border crossing in the Western Hemisphere. Any native San Diegan is well aware of border issues surrounding illegal immigration. (I used to attend classes in Otay Mesa, about 1/4 mile from the mostly-commercial crossing there.)
The contrast with the official view of the State of California now ("sanctuary state!" "unlimited resources!" "walls are immoral and don't work") is absolutely stunning. We have a wall now. It works. Whether we should build more is a policy question, but anyone who makes a blanket statement about how horrible or ineffective walls are... does not live in San Diego or is under the age of 25.
This has been part of the kerfuffle between one of the TV stations here (the only non-network affiliate with a local news team) and CNN, which blew up the other day. Criticism or accusations of it being "right wing" miss the point that *all* of the local reporting by TV stations has been a) pretty level-handed, and b) in agreement that borders are A Thing and that having border fencing helps. It's self-evident for those here, but not to the national media that came in when the caravan arrived and San Ysidro was closed briefly.
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It's self-evident for those here, but not to the national media that came in when the caravan arrived and San Ysidro was closed briefly.
It is also self evidence to the national media, but they are dishonest fucks with an agenda.
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I feel a similar way about red states. The difference is people exaggerate about what California does (presenting proposed law for example), while downgrade stupid stuff the red states. Of course, the fact that most red states have lots of land no population (for some reason .. smirk), also explains why we don't talk about their laws.
Will the electronic receipts fade like the paper? (Score:3)
Come tax time, the thermal printed paper ones are just blank.
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Photocopy the receipt a day or two after purchase and staple the receipt to the copy before the paper receipt fades.
From someone who gets audited and passes. Auguring with the IRS never goes well, and they don't give a damn if you are right. If you are right, you get the privilege of paying an attorney to prove you are right.
Re:Will the electronic receipts fade like the pape (Score:5, Funny)
I found some thermal receipts the other day from 2013 - they're all fine. The new ones disappear in six months.
Somebody told me it's because of a BPA ban, but I'm not sure. I haven't tried eating any of the new ones.
Re: Will the electronic receipts fade like the pap (Score:2)
Plus handling them results in high blood levels of synthetic estrogen analogs.
Receipt-checks when exiting stores. (Score:3, Interesting)
A lot of stores have employees/guards check receipts as customers exit. How is this going to work if it passes? Will the employee have tablet and somehow receive their checkout information? Will it involve even more tracking? RFIDs on shopping carts?
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Seems like a tablet combined with a take-a-number system would be just fine. Gate checks aren't really enforceable other than telling a customer not to come back. They need evidence that theft has occurred to detain you, you don't need evidence that payment occurred to leave.
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Or just print out a gate check slip without prices. Without prices and payment info it's not a technically a receipt.
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I don't believe it's illegal, but it's voluntary. I rarely stop for such people, if they ask for my receipt before leaving I generally cheerfully say "no thanks" and continue walking. Only once or twice have they even made any further efforts to stop me and it's has never gone beyond "you don't have my permission to search my belongings". They know that it's voluntary, and if you refuse to participate the receipt checker is unlikely to escalate the situation. In theory, they could tell you that you're n
The Mom and Pop stores are going to love this (Score:2)
Well those that are still hanging on against Walmart and Amazon.
It's funny I had someone here (likely from California or New York) go on at me how people don't make good decision's for themselves.
This just shows you how really bad politicians making decisions for them can be.
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I am sure their cash register is an IOT device
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Home Depot already does email receipts. This legislation is designed to impose high costs on the corner hardware store and further decrease their profits against the big corporate competition, to ultimately make it so that each vertical is dominated by one megacorp - those are easier to control.
The politician may say this isn't his goal, but don't believe his words - watch the liars' actions instead.
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The guy proposing the law is from San Francisco -- the locals tend to be fairly anti-corporate, even if the place is infested with techbros recently.
The locals also only care what politicians are saying, not what they are doing. Democrats, for instance, are always saying they are the party of the worker, meanwhile they repeatedly shove a giant corporate cock down everyones throat
No way. Now how. (Score:5, Informative)
I need a receipt and there is no way in H*** you are getting my email.
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To be fair you can get a new gmail for free and use plus expansion all you want. If you don't want to pay for real email.
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My email address has a + and ! in it. Most systems won't take those characters. The shortest email address I've ever seen used was 5 characters long as it was two letters @ a CC TLD.
just another way (Score:2)
this is just another way to collect data - now includes those who pay in cash. one thing for sure, it will make checking out a whole lot slower if you have to type or voice your email address. It means you could also be forced to sign up for some type of loyalty cards. so just say no and ask for paper.
Paper cash payments is then linked to the cloud? (Score:5, Insightful)
Paper receipts ensure your privacy to buy anything you want without getting tracked on another device.
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never been able to buy anything with cash again
That's the idea. Cash is on the way out. All purchases will be tracked (now) and approved (in the future). According to your needs (as determined by The State).
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Why haven't CC's done this still? (Score:2)
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MasterCard and Visa want to get in this business. All the systems they have been building over the last few years have had the capacity to include extensive order details in the records sent to them.
Statute of Frauds (Score:2)
I'm sensing a conflict here for large purchases.
Produces CO2? (Score:4, Interesting)
Trees pull CO2 from the air to produce wood. The tree is cut down and the wood is pulped to form paper, which is then used to print the receipt. If the receipt is subsequently thrown away in a landfill, doesn't that remove CO2 from the atmosphere and sequester it underground?
Re:Produces CO2? (Score:5, Insightful)
Filling up landfills with carbon is a very inefficient way to deal with CO2 in the atmosphere. Landfill space, near urban areas (where the trash is generated), is at a premium. There is more than one pollution issue going on at a time. Filling up landfills with paper will scarcely make a dent in the CO2 in the atmosphere.
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Paper receipts are not a pollution problem though. They turn to dirt quickly enough that it really doesn't matter.
Nope (Score:4, Informative)
Home Depot already does this (Score:3)
This isn't rocket science... if you purchase with a credit card, Home Depot ALREADY DOES this.
If you want to return things:
* Give the items you want to return to the clerk.
* Clerk scans the items, and gives back all the stuff you bought at Lowes and forgot where it came from.
* You swipe all the credit cards you might have used to purchase the returned items.
* Home Depot uses the card data to look for receipts associating a purchase of one or more returned items using that card, and automatically credits the price back to the card.
* For everything else, you provide your ID, and they give you a store credit (the ID is needed to limit the ability to brazenly shoplift items and return them later... if you start returning TOO MANY big-ticket items without a receipt, they'll restrict your ability to get receipt-free refunds of cash purchases in the future.
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You are only addressing the part that protects the store. What about the part that protects the consumer or the government?
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As someone who generally sucks at keeping receipts, and who usually finishes up a home improvement project with several hundred dollars worth of stuff that was bought 15 minutes before closing time (just to make sure I'd have everything I needed to finish some project after the store closed, but before going to bed) or purchased for the sake of having enough extra to avoid having to make 3 trips per day to buy one more {whatever} after the last one was [fucked up | dropped into a hole | not quite enough to
No problem just use the right email address (Score:2)
Total Opposite (Score:2)
Since a few years here in Québec/Canada, Restaurants are obligated by law to give a paper receipt in hand even if the customer doesn't want it. They need to throw it out themselves if they don't want it. A special section is added to the receipt by the black box of the gouvernement and they don't even compensate for the additional paper and wear and tear of the printer! Inspectors are visiting restaurants and handing out penalties if those laws are not respected... Total Opposite...
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I'm guessing that's to prevent tax evasion?
Where are they stored? (Score:2)
Not just "no"... (Score:3)
Yep. Because we have such a good history with completely electronic systems. Where physical access allows pretty much anyone to do anything.
And no paper trail means that it's just that much easier to cheat.
Legally required spam (Score:3)
No thank you. And don't tell me the law could prohibit using the email address for marketing. When has that ever stopped them?
Nfc (Score:2)
Could NFC technology be used for delivering a digital receipt to your phone without you having to hand over your email address (and thus get spammed)? It would also be a lot faster than waiting in line for people to spell out their email addresses.
Any time I'm asked for my email address so they can send me the receipt, I refuse. And I'll continue to refuse. So if this is to be forced, then a better way than email or SMS is needed.
Oh, and can you guys sort out those CVS receipts, as that one chain is prob
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Re: Good ol Cali (Score:4, Informative)
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This is probably what killed Radio Shack finally. After an exchange like this I dumped the items I wanted to buy on the counter and walked out.
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I generate more paper waste every year from the amount of election and tax materials from the state than from the puny amount of receipts I guess. But this is typical politician fare - they have to do *something* so that during re-election they can say more than just what they voted for against.
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With clean streets with city laws enforced.
No illegal migrants.
No criminals wondering around doing crime.
No open drug use.
No homeless tent cities blocking city parks and pathways.
A city that understands that a RV is not going to be parked for years blocking streets.
No suggestions on employee cafeteria bans.
No large amounts of city tax to pay to look after illegal migrants and random non US citizens.
The ability to buy and sell with cash. To not have every sale stored by
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Probably more electricity used to send the receipt electronically than just printing the paper.
But I wouldn't worry about it, it's a common practice to create news about some crazy guy's plan that will never actually occur. It isn't that California is weird this way, go to any state or country and there's always that one guy that proposes something stupid.
Re:Lemme call names then (Score:4, Insightful)
We said that about the plastic bag ban. Then, they passed it. Now, we have to buy trash bags for my house that use 10x as much plastic, use 10x as much fuel to deliver them to the store, and are basically worse for the environment in almost every other measurable way. And yet still, there's tons of trash blowing around our streets, because what the legislators didn't do is pass a law fining the garbage truck companies for overuse of automation in ways that result in trash littering the streets behind them.
So no, we should not assume that any idea, no matter how bonkers, is beyond the level of bats**t-craziness that the California legislature is capable of exhibiting. We should always assume that any idea proposed by a politician, no matter how absurd, is likely to pass, and use every ounce of our strength to stomp the bad ideas squarely into the ground.
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They should be barred from creating that database of customers.
There is zero reason after emailing a receipt for a purchase, for the e-mail to be kept any longer.
I fully support this bill, so long as there is a strict 'No Capture receipt is issued" requirement.
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I fully support this bill, so long as there is a strict 'No Capture receipt is issued" requirement.
So everyone in the checkout line has to re-enter their email address for every purchase? That is silly.
The e-receipts that I receive are automatically tied to either my credit card or my phone. Swipe, tap, done.
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Hey, moron!
Do you honestly think people are going to type in their email address at the counter every time they want a receipt?! No way!
This is a huge leap toward a totalitarian police state. That's what this is. Cash or card, government will know.
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In practice, 99% of these cash registers do not support email
I get e-receipts from Walmart and Home Depot.
If they can do it, why can't others?
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Only statists (::cough:: Leftists) would ever force this on every store.
Especially in the most populous state!
Hey, California! Convince some poor low-population state like New Hampshire to test your bullshit ideas first! Jumping in head first as the largest state with the largest city is a good way to end up dead in the water.
Just ask any competent engineer.
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Hah, when I was in Arkansas, if you look between the trees you can see a bunch of rusting cars. Ok, maybe this isn't the "forest" but definitely just behind a few trees is someone's house with some old beater parked on the lawn, and this repeats over and over as you drive along and pay attention.
Re:Good ol Cali (Score:5, Informative)
Don't worry, you can just clean all that up using one of those free plastic bags you get at the grocery store.
Ooops, they banned those in CA as well....
Which worked really, really well! With the success of that law, nine other states are currently planning on copying.
As right-wingers love to lecture, nothing is "free", those "free" bags cost money, and since retail is a highly competitive, low margin business, those "free" bags had gotten so cr_ppy as to be almost worthless - requiring multiple bagging to hold anything of any weight, if they would even then.
Now, if you need a bag, and don't want to pay $2 for one of those nice sewn waterproof fabric bags at the checkout counter that are indefinitely reusable, you can buy a disposable plastic bag for a dime. And that bag is so nice, being large and sturdy, that it can be reused indefinitely. Throwing away piles of flimsy one-use bags is a thing of the past.
I would object strenuously if someone proposed going back. It is much better without those "free" bags.
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I only paid for one bag, which I don't use much. Because I get tons of bags sent to me for free by various charities that I contributed to. Those grocery bags are the new tchotchkes to replace tote bags and pens.
No wait, two bags. I had to buy one in europe when I went to get some groceries there. I still have that one too.
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The Great Nanny State of California is finally doing something about CVS receipts [knowyourmeme.com].
CVS Receipts refers to point-of sale records printed by CVS Pharmacy, the largest pharmacy chain in the United States, which have gained online notoriety for their lengthy form since the introduction of ExtraCare rewards program in 2011.
Yeah, but without CVS receipts, I'd have to buy toilet paper. /s
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It's pretty hard to ring something on the register and not declare it in the total.
On the other hand, if the customer isn't expecting a receipt, you don't have to ring it in, can pocket the cash and report an inventory adjustment/shrinkage, offsetting store income.
Re: I remember when... (Score:2)
I think you're remembering some kind of straw man.