Shutdown Hits Industries Nationwide (wsj.com) 664
The partial government shutdown is affecting a wide range of business and financial concerns nationwide. From a report: Shuttered government offices are stalling the approval of new loans, initial public offerings, the processing of tax documents, and the approval of new products such as prescription drugs, among other effects. While some programs are reopening on a temporary basis or providing workarounds for affected companies, most services won't return to normal until the government fully reopens and 800,000 federal workers sift through the backlog.
Here is a round up of the impact: The partial closure of the Securities and Exchange Commission is delaying the ability of companies to open the IPO market. Companies that were seeking to list shares in January are delaying plans since the regulator has stopped reviewing and approving new and pending corporate registration statements. Airlines expect to have sluggish revenue growth in the first quarter in part because of revenue lost from government travel cancellations. Delta Air Lines Inc. Chief Executive Ed Bastian, for instance, said the shutdown would cost his airline $25 million in lost revenue from government travel. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has dramatically curtailed inspections of domestic facilities at food-processing companies during the shutdown, though unpaid inspectors have resumed work inspecting higher-risk products such as fresh fruits and vegetables, eggs, seafood and dairy products.
At the Internal Revenue Service, the shutdown has created delays in getting some employer identification numbers, holding up some routine business deals. Some small-business loans are also stuck in limbo. The Small Business Administration has stopped approving routine loans that the agency backs to ensure entrepreneurs have access to funds, halting their plans for expansion and repairs and forcing some owners to consider costlier sources of cash. The government process for reviewing proposed mergers has been slowed by the shutdown, but it is still operating. Businesses that have government contracts are feeling the strain across a variety of industries, including the building of highways and bridges.
Here is a round up of the impact: The partial closure of the Securities and Exchange Commission is delaying the ability of companies to open the IPO market. Companies that were seeking to list shares in January are delaying plans since the regulator has stopped reviewing and approving new and pending corporate registration statements. Airlines expect to have sluggish revenue growth in the first quarter in part because of revenue lost from government travel cancellations. Delta Air Lines Inc. Chief Executive Ed Bastian, for instance, said the shutdown would cost his airline $25 million in lost revenue from government travel. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has dramatically curtailed inspections of domestic facilities at food-processing companies during the shutdown, though unpaid inspectors have resumed work inspecting higher-risk products such as fresh fruits and vegetables, eggs, seafood and dairy products.
At the Internal Revenue Service, the shutdown has created delays in getting some employer identification numbers, holding up some routine business deals. Some small-business loans are also stuck in limbo. The Small Business Administration has stopped approving routine loans that the agency backs to ensure entrepreneurs have access to funds, halting their plans for expansion and repairs and forcing some owners to consider costlier sources of cash. The government process for reviewing proposed mergers has been slowed by the shutdown, but it is still operating. Businesses that have government contracts are feeling the strain across a variety of industries, including the building of highways and bridges.
Trump owns it (Score:5, Informative)
“I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it.”
Donald Trump
Re: (Score:2)
I never thought I'd live in a time when a US prez needs a spanking. That's at least the usual cure for a sullen kid in the terrible two that throws a tantrum for not getting the toy he wants.
Re:Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
"I say we write the $57 dollar check so the kids can have their milk money and you can put gas in the car."
So, do we do that again when president toddler decides he wants 2 walls?
We don't negotiate with terrorists (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump & the GOP are testing us. This isn't about the wall, this about ruling by fiat by continuously threatening the security and stability of the United States. We can't let that stand. If we do we become a defacto dictatorship.
Re:Trump owns it (Score:5, Informative)
Yea, but the cost of opening the government is $5.7 Billion....
5.7billion now (on top of nearly 2billion already granted in the budget to repair/replace existing border fencing) - and that's just the down payment to get started. Most conservative estimates start at about $20billion to complete the project- some go over $100billion (although that's probably unrealistic). Trump's own widely derided estimate was $7bn to $12bn total.
Either way- that's not an insignificant chunk of money when you consider our infrastructure is in poor shape compared to much of the rest of the world, our health care is last place out of the industrialised world, we're falling behind in science, etc.
The preferred designs can be cut through with common household tools or easily traversed with a ladder. Even republicans representatives who live along the border say that it wouldn't be effective. The people who cross the border illegally are fewer than the people who arrive legally and overstay their visa. ... and you know what country most people who arrive and legally overstay their visa come from? CANADA- it's not even Mexico.
It's absurd to waste $5.7 billion on a downpayment on a much more expensive wall. It's just a really bad idea. It's a vanity project with no merit... let's not waste money on a stupid vanity project please.
Re: (Score:2)
IF I was a democrat, I'd recommend that you not use the "we cannot afford this" argument card.
The effective approach for a politician to use is to declare as many varied different reasons as possible, without worrying if they are true or not, because someone will believe it, and your opponents will be distracted by spending all their time fact checking.
Besides, if you have enough reasons, most people eventually will stop listening and think, "Oh, he has that many reasons, it must be true." It's a fallacy, but an effective one politicians should know if they're trying to get their way.
Re: (Score:3)
Seriously? Give the guy his $100 Billion and be done with him
No! That's a ridiculous waste of money. Do you realize how many roads, bridges, and other infrastructure projects could be completed with that?
Oh wait.. This ISN'T about the money is it? Democrats dropped $1 Trillion over 10 years on the ACA with a continued ever increasing entitlement without batting an eyelash
I have no idea how much the democrats spent on it, but it is irrelevant. I don't generally view the Democrats as money savvy anyway. Once upon a time that used to be the realm of the Republican party. Although, they've always wasted a lot on military spending too over the years.
It is a fallacy to throw good money after bad, to say, we've wasted this much money,
Re: (Score:3)
It's true, Trump's great wall can be defeated in minutes by a $1 hacksaw.
https://youtu.be/b2gedQN26YI [youtu.be]
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Ah, so deficits are NOT really an issue for you. IF you agree with the issue the money is being spent on, you are more than ready to borrow the money and cut the check.
Logical Consistency is a cruel task master. IF you are OK with the ACA's cost, stop your whining about deficits and cut Trump his $5.7 Billion check.
Re:Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
I am okay with the costs of the ACA. Because moving to a public healthcare system would be cheaper than the current corporate system.
The rest of the world has proven that to be true. Only in the backwards USA do Republican morons dispute what the rest of the world has figured out.
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I can't imagine how you think this is analogous to Trump's vanity wall.
Re: (Score:2)
Yea, but the cost of opening the government is $5.7 Billion.... Out of a $44~ Trillion budget.
It's like arguing over $57 dollars for a fencing in the back yard to keep the kids safe when you make $44,000 / year and refusing to pay any of the utility bills, buy gas for the car or give the kids milk money for school until the demand for the fence is dropped.
I say we write the $57 dollar check so the kids can have their milk money and you can put gas in the car.
In the mean time, blame who you want...
Yeah. 5.7 billion is nothing, just piss it all away because it's not the highest item on the balance sheet. Not to mention your total cost estimate is over tenfold inflated but whatever. Alt facts, eh?
"In fiscal year 2015, the federal budget is $3.8 trillion." https://www.nationalpriorities... [nationalpriorities.org]
Re:Trump owns it (Score:5, Informative)
You left out a decimal point. In 2019, the budget will be $4.407 billion. The government will have revenue of $3.4 trillion, leaving a trillion dollar deficit (and growing) during what's supposed to be "the greatest economy in history, just a tremendous economy".
Who's zooming whom?
Re: (Score:2)
You left out a decimal point. In 2019, the budget will be $4.407 billion. The government will have revenue of $3.4 trillion, leaving a trillion dollar deficit (and growing) during what's supposed to be "the greatest economy in history, just a tremendous economy".
Who's zooming whom?
AFTER a 15% tax cut remember... BUT you are mixing up your numbers. 1.1 Trillion is the increase in the national debt, of which only $799 Billion is from the budget deficit.
But I have a question for ya... Where you upset with Obama for his deficits and how much he was adding to the national debt? Where you upset with the ACA passing because of it's obvious costs? What about the QE1, QE2, QE3, and QEForever spending? Any of that bother you?
As a % of GDP the debt is increasing, but at a lower rate of incr
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
Well Trump claimed on national TV that he will own the shutdown. That was extremely stupid of him. Because of that the blame will go to him. Now don't expect any politician to actually care for who is getting hurt, they are all in to winning the next election.
Now Trump is getting all the blame. The house of representatives, who had a big win (Many along districts along the border, where the wall is to be built) for the democrats, because people wanted to fight Trumps evil motives. The democrats have the ability to make Trump and the GOP suffer.
Now that $57 on a 44k budget is a big deal. $44k isn't a lot to live on, and the $57 can go to useful things, like new clothing, healthier food, or just making this months rent.
Also to note, the Tax Cut last year which was suppose to super charge the economy, kinda failed to do such. The Ultra rich who benefited the most, just bought back stock. They didn't reinvest in their company to make them grow. Other companies lowered the amount of raises, because of the extra money people got from taxes. So now we have less money for services. So it is like this guy who made 44k use to make 45k last year, and still had all the expenses. so the $57 is even more painful.
Re: (Score:2)
So.. You are OK with putting the checkbook on pause over $58?
Ok, but let's be honest about this. It's not about the deficit, this isn't a money question. This is about votes. The 800K people who are missing their paychecks are but pawns in this vote getting game. The 800K folks are hostages.... What are you going to do?
The deficit argument is a red herring for your side, that's obvious to me. You need to come up with something else because last week we spent more than $58 on eating out and soda pop.
Re: (Score:2)
Yea, but the cost of opening the government is $5.7 Billion.... Out of a $44~ Trillion budget.
I think that's the problem here. Every cycle we go through this. [Insert some topic] is being tied to "can we keep the government open?". The underlying issue is that the President de jure (being it Trump/Obama/Bush/Whomever) is taking a topic that requires a lot of debate and discussion and attaching it to the topic of "can we keep the government open." Really we have two issues here.
One, can you get the one big thing you promised in your campaign done? Two, can you maintain the government as it is cu
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. You don't get the debt under control by spending more on something with zero value.
Ah.. So Democrats are now deficit hawks? Oh that's rich.. I seem to recall the ACA being pretty expensive over 10 years and nobody on that side of the isle batting an eyelash about it. In fact, the ACA was projected to cost $1 Trillion over 10 years and established a new entitlement that would continue to suck federal funds FOREVER at an ever increasing cost per year. Building a wall is a ONE TIME expense. After that, you just have to maintain it which is a fraction of the original cost. But a wall is n
Re:Schumer Shutdown (Score:5, Informative)
The president is the one who is supposed to submit the budget in the US system. Don't they teach US civics over there?
The Democratic House has already passed several bills to reopen the government in the past couple of weeks. The Senate GOP won't even allow a vote on them.
Re: Schumer Shutdown (Score:2)
Trump does not have to try. He coukd sign the bill that is ready for him to sign. A bill that opens the gov.
Re:Schumer Shutdown (Score:5, Insightful)
So far the only person who has tried to end the shutdown is President Trump. [...] This is officially the Democrats' Shutdown.
Trump took ownership of the shutdown on national television. Troll detected.
Re:Schumer Shutdown (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump then also proposed a compromise,
It's not a compromise if he gets everything he wants, and especially not if the only thing he's giving back is the hostages.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Schumer Shutdown (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump then also proposed a compromise
Trump "compromised" by promising to not do what court orders forbid him to do. Can't deport the DACA kids when courts have already told him he can't deport the DACA kids.
I hereby compromise with you. I will not burn down your house. In return, I want $5.7 million dollars. Good deal, right?
Re: (Score:3)
Trump then also proposed a compromise
So if I kidnap your daughter then on a completely unrelated case ask you for $5bn, and then when you say no, offer to return your daughter for $5bn you consider me the one who made the compromise and the master negotiator? Or would you get angry before I finished speaking?
Trump offered nothing that he didn't already take from the Democrats in the first place.
Re: Schumer Shutdown (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Schumer Shutdown (Score:5, Insightful)
Should be noted that the bill mentioned passed UNANIMOUSLY. 100 for, 0 against, 0 abstaining. So even if the handful of new senators all vote against, the bill would have veto-proof majority.
The Senate should pass the bill like it did a month ago and send it to the President. If he vetoes it, they could easily have the votes to override the veto.
But that would make the GOP look bad, so that's not an option for McConnell.
=Smidge=
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Schumer Shutdown (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
A budget bill cannot be filibustered. This is true but in order for that to be applicable a budget resolution has to be passed. No budget resolution was passed for FY2019 so there are zero appropriations bills for that fiscal year which are exempt from filibuster.
Re: (Score:3)
If you're referring to illegal immigration, focus on the word ILLEGAL. We have laws, if you don't agree with them, you work to get them changed, not tell people to ignore them. Waving it away is disrespectful of the millions of people that have come to this country through the legal immigration process. The United States remains one of the most welcoming countries for people wishing to make a better life. All we ask is for people to follow our laws. Why is that too much to ask? If I rob a bank, then spend
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Ah, yes, the "has the world ended" test, a very good and sensible way of judging governmental decisions.
All government salaries combined (Score:5, Insightful)
say we make it permanent and fire all furloughed workers. We might actually be able to balance the budge,
All government salaries combined account for around $200 billion [washingtonpost.com]. We could literally fire every single federal employee and we still wouldn't have even covered half the federal deficit [usgovernmentspending.com] ($779 billion last year).
Who's with me on this....
Nobody with a brain in their skull.
Re:Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
Save money by not changing the oil in your car. You may be able to get by expanding your change schedule, and perhaps missing a few change sessions. But if you go too long without change your oil. Your car will suffer more damage that is more expensive then those oil changes are.
What is happening now, is we are starting to show the value of these "non-critical" government employees. While we can get by for a little while with out them, over time things just getting worse.
Re: (Score:3)
Imagine how quickly things will go down hill when the indentured servants guarding the prisons and managing air traffic decide they've had enough or just plain don't have enough money to fill the tank for their daily commute!
I wonder how Mr. Border Security will feel when the same happens with Border Patrol agents?
Honestly, their respective unions should get together and give the Senate and President a hard deadline.
Re:Trump owns it (Score:4, Informative)
Trump offered to give Democrats everything they wanted and, thanks to TDS, they turned down his offer before they had even heard him make it.
Apart from dropping the 5.7billion demand that mexico isn't paying for to build an ineffectual wall.
Re: Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
That's easy, because the Republicans don't want the wall either. I honestly can't remember, did the GOP ever even deliver him a budget to veto? I know they were getting shot down by the senate even before they made it to him. If GOP congress, with a GOP senate and a GOP president can't pass a budget, I fear this will be a very long shutdown.
I do wonder just how divided can things get before they just implode?
Re: Trump owns it (Score:4, Funny)
I'm confused, is this the wall that Mexico is paying for? Because we're having border security issues up here with people fleeing the U.S.. We're anxiously awaiting how this all turns out.
Re: Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
The United States Government does not negotiate with terrorists.
If the Democrats cave now, they will set a precedent that the government can be held hostage over whatever new boondoggle wants the next time.
This is about more than a wall or about reopening the government, it's about our government NOT using it's own citizens lives as bargaining chips.
Anytime you see someone asking for more power, or strongarming the government by holding money, jobs, people, etc, hostage, ask yourself one question:
"If was able to get away with this tactic, would I be happy?"
Regardless of your opinion on Donald Trump, hinging our entire government on a single issue is a tactic I do NOT want to see made common in the future. The Democrats need to hold firm, that way this doesn't become the new normal.
You should read your own citations sometime (Score:5, Informative)
Israel's wall has been fairly effective:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#Effectiveness
No barrier is perfectly effective. People break out of prisons on occasion - that doesn't discount the utility of prisons in general.
Using "perfection" as an excuse to leave our border unprotected is just stupid. Most people that are anti-wall should just admit they are open borders activists. No amount of border security will make them happy.
from the article you cited:
Haaretz reported, "[t]he security fence is no longer mentioned as the major factor in preventing suicide bombings, mainly because the terrorists have found ways to bypass it."[56] Former Israeli Secretary of Defence Moshe Arens says that the reduction in Palestinian violence is largely due to the IDF's entry into the West Bank in 2002.[57]
Maybe people who are for the wall should admit they haven't studied the issue and attribute false motivations to those who have?
Re: (Score:3)
Right, the requirement of the use of a ladder will be a huge deterrent, well worth the 10's of billions of dollars it will cost in the end.
Good luck convincing anyone who hasn't already decided the wall must be built with that.
Re:"ineffectual" wall (Score:5, Insightful)
This argument always makes me chuckle. Yes, let's make America as peaceful as the middle-east by duplicating the stupid decisions they make over there.
Once upon a time, the US allowed unlimited immigration, and the country prospered.
"Us" and "Them" are political constructs designed to divide and conquer.
I would never choose to reside in the apartheid hell that Israel has become, and if that abomination becomes a reality in the US, I will be leaving.
Re:"ineffectual" wall (Score:4, Informative)
No, actually before the US welfare state (that is Social Security and Food Stamps), the elderly starved and died, as did the poor.
But Trump Traitors like you don't know your history. Shut up with your right wing bullshit.
Re:"ineffectual" wall (Score:5, Insightful)
No barrier is perfectly effective. People break out of prisons on occasion - that doesn't discount the utility of prisons in general.
Seriously? You are comparing a wall that spans over 1000 miles and where the response time is measured in hours with a prison wall where 1 person can see from one side to the other, and that has guards with machine guns every couple hundred feet ready to open fire the second someone begins climbing?
As I've said previously on this topic, physical barriers only work when the delay they add is proportional to the response time, or when the barrier improves the response time. Out in the desert, even if you know the exact moment that someone breaches the border, the response time can be hours. Adding 5 or 10 minutes for someone to scale the wall is trivial. If you can track down and intercept someone who breached the border 1 hour 50 minutes ago, you can almost surely track down someone who breached the border 2 hours ago.
Re:Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
It amazes me the lengths that Trump apologists will go to vindicate their lord and saviour.
Trump has been full of shit on this wall since before he was even elected. First he said Mexico would pay for it. Then he said he would use tariffs to pressure Mexico to pay for the wall (showing that he doesn't understand how tariffs work...). Trump can't even properly justify why he needs almost $6bil to build this wall!
He had two years with house republicans to get that wall. But now that the Democrats have the house, NOW it's suddenly THEIR fault? Did the Democrats shut down the government? No, Trump did. Period. End of Story. The Democrats are not holding 800k lives in the balance. Trump is. Period. End of Story. Trump is basically acting like a terrorist, and the democrats are doing exactly what they should be doing and refusing to negotiate under duress.
But no, lets blame the Democrats because... because... if you don't blame the democrats then it's Trumps fault and you don't like that!
And if Trump does declare a national emergency? Part of me hopes that he won't be that breathtakingly stupid, but another part of me hopes he does, as it will cross the line and prove to the entire country what kind of a megalomaniac he is.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Opening the government is easy.
Allow the spending plan that had previously pass both the House and Senate during a time with both sides were GOP controlled, that didn't have Wall spending.
He did say that before it happened, then he let it happened, so he is responsible.
Trump is hurting people and causing suffering, because he is having a fit, because the other areas of government doesn't want him to build a monument to causing suffering.
The wall has nothing to do with border security. The cost of the wall
Re:Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't matter why he said it, it matters that he said he'd take the blame for shutting down the government because holding his breath wasn't working.
Trump also didn't give the Democrats anything near what they wanted. He only promised to kick the DACA can down the road for 3 years, and this after he's trying to cancel the program outright. Last we hear, the Supreme Court was indicating it won't take the appeal from a lower court going against Trump. The Democrats want to make the DACAs citizens.
And building some goddamn Great White Wall while lying about how it will stop illegal immigration ignores the fact that most of the people crossing the southern border are coming the legal entry points and requesting asylum to escape the drug gangs who help fill America's illegal drug appetite. It also won't stop the drugs which don't come across barren stretches of border, they come though on the usual trade routes...that is the ones that are not manufactured by Americans.
What's that moron going to do, govern by fake National Emergency and threat budget bills because he got that morning and discovered a fly in his McMuffin? If the Congress doesn't want to fund the Great White Wall, then it shouldn't get funded. They have the power of the purse strings as provided by the Constitution.
The only reason he wants that wall is because he promised he'd get one. That promise was pitched to him by his campaign advisors who admitted they needed something simple he could understand and pitch. But Trump never just pitches anything. He decorates his pitch so much so that it cannot possibly do whatever the core underlying idea would have done. He just makes shit up because it crosses his mind while his mouth is open.
Re: Trump owns it (Score:3)
You can't possibly expect Democrats to accept any "deal" in which American money is spent on a border wall. Trump should be held to his promises, and he promised Mexico would pay.
Re: Trump owns it (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope.
Nothing stops the prez from signing a clean bill to reopen the government.
He is taking hostages to get what he wants. Working them with no pay.
New Legislation - Gov Can't Hold Back Business (Score:3, Funny)
If the government can't be assed to get it self running properly, then anything that previously requires some government oversight should be allowed to move forward without the shutdown government holding them back.
Delayed IPO? Go on ahead with going public.
New Drug? Not a problem, do your studies and use some good judgement. Besides if you fail you get sued which is a nice trade off.
Tax Payments? Sucks to be you government, can't figure yourself out your crap can't get paid.
Airport Security? No more lines at the airport.
Air traffic Control? Anarchy of the skies!
The last one was a joke. ATC should be airport employees and not FAA employees like how it is in everywhere else in the world.
Re: (Score:2)
Besides if you fail you get sued which is a nice trade off.
I agree the government's failure to review and approve lawful applications within X days
(No more than, for example, 10 days) should result in automatic forced approval.
The risk of being sued requires the courts to be funded and operating, which they probably won't be for too longer.
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Courts could be self-funding, they collect fines and fees.
Yep, That's Anarchy (Score:2, Interesting)
Delayed IPO? Great Depression 2.0 New Drug? Snake Oil. Tax Payments? They already have your money, you won't get your refund. Airport Security? 9/11 2.0
The FDA isn't inspecting food right now. If this keeps up sooner or later we're gonna have an outbreak. If you have small children they're going to die. Same if you're elderly.
Folks really, really underestimate how important and beneficial the government is. That's because most of the time you're dealing with Governm
I call bullshit on 911 2.0 (Score:3)
Airport Security? 9/11 2.0
Any time the run tests on what security screeners actually catch, it's something like an 70% failure rate [forbes.com] - for things like guns. It is laughable to claim they are the reason we've not had more serious incidents.
A this point airline passengers are savvy enough there's never going to be a 9/11 2.0, even if you simply abolished the TSA...
You could easily replace that whole meaningless machinery with randomly placed undercover armed security on planes (the airlines could handle that,
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I'm not worried about TSA -- the real security measures are things like reinforced flight deck doors + 2-person rule, non-cooperation with hijackers, etc. None of those are controlled by TSA. If you're worried about bombs, you can have airport police sweep a line with explosive-sniffing dogs and hand-search any luggage that they alert on.
I'm worried about air traffic control. Stressful as hell job that's made more stressful by worries about money, and consequences of failure can be a disaster.
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Re: Yep, That's Anarchy (Score:2)
Let's address this:
1. How in God's name is an IPO going to cause depression 2.0? If Goldman and the other Banks underwrite a junk business that's on them and I recall a few IPOs that went under the open price. No depression there.
2. You mean like all of the essential oil peddlers who have been claiming all sorts of things even before the government shutdown?
3.The IRS has around $200 of my money because I correctly calculated how much I should send to the government. So no refunds aren't a big deal. If you'r
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Hell I don't think that's really hitting it home enough. If a shutdown allowed business to run free, businesses would literally start lobbying to shutdown our government every chance they could get. They would literally spending millions on ads to incite enough anger on any one topic to force shutdowns all of the time. It literally rewards businesses for successfully launching campaigns to end or government on a continual basis. The entire point is to make it hurt when a the government shuts down so tha
Re:New Legislation - Gov Can't Hold Back Business (Score:5, Insightful)
This right here is the problem with modern politics. People like you have given no real thought to what life was actually like 100+ years ago, and sit and criticize the foundations of the very institution that allows you to be a complacent armchair critic in the first place.
Without government, there's a good chance you wouldn't be literate.
Without government, we wouldn't have had the research dollars (or more importantly) the free speech protections that enable science and ultimately lead to things like the computer and network infrastructure that you are using to bitch and moan.
Without government, you would stand a very good chance of not being here in the first place, thanks to childhood mortality prior to sanitation mandates, food inspection, food stamps and vaccination requirements lowering childhood mortality from 300/1000 in the early 1900's to less than 1/1000 today.
Without government, there would be nothing to keep anybody who wanted to from taking all of your possessions, or enslaving you, or just killing you for entertainment.
Without government, companies can and will put things like radium in your beverage, they will put workers in harm's way to save a few bucks, and they will keep you busy 16 hours a day, 7 days a week so you don't have time to post ignorant rants on the internet in the first place.
Life was brutal and short prior to effective government. There are still plenty of places today that are governed weakly or not at all, and childhood mortality remains extremely high in these places.
The problem is, making big changes to life requires years or even generations - you don't build up an economy in a month, and you don't destroy it in a month. You don't produce a vibrant scientific community, or a skilled workforce, or a powerful military, or an innovative tech sector without serious patience and investment. But people like you swallow the GOP's bullshit line that "government IS the problem" without giving a moment's thought to the real sources of prosperity - those being stability, knowledge, trade, and liberty.
If you want to live in a place without a powerful, liberal government, go ahead - even in this day and age, there are plenty of countries like that available. But don't sabotage mine because you're too shortsighted to understand where your comfortable life comes from.
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Another non-tech article (Score:4, Informative)
Why is everything here getting so political? I read about this on every other news feeds, I don't need it here as well.
Re:Another non-tech article (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is everything here getting so political? I read about this on every other news feeds, I don't need it here as well.
Then WHY did you click on this story and post a comment?
It's not like it wasn't readily apparent what this story was about and what the comments would look like.
Because everything is political (Score:5, Insightful)
Politics impact every aspect of your life. This is the "Stuff that matters" part of the tag line. There's a taboo on talking about them because our ruling class would like very much for you and me to leave all that icky government stuff up to them.
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The problem is that the Republican party is now run by an admitted racist, sexist, senile bastard.
The rest of the Republican party openly pisses on the constitution by doing things like preventing a sitting President from appointing Justices to the Supreme Court.
This is the new way: once the Republic ass hats return to the normalcy of at least pretending to be bi-partisan then the Slashdot world will return to more of a normalcy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump
Syndicates. (Score:3)
Reminds me of a LOT of cyberpunk scenarios, where international companies and mobs start carving up nations, using people's conservative traditions to make a mockery of everything those traditions mean, in order to take everything from them.
Explains that odd twist in the smile that pops up on Republican faces when they tell bald-faced lies more than most anything else.
Ryan Fenton
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using people's conservative traditions to make a mockery of everything those traditions mea
like christmas being a celebration of materialism?
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The interesting thing is that the ONLY times in history when someone used people's values and traditions and turned them against them was borne out of socialism. Hitler, Stalin, Franco, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Chavez all appealed to people's disdain for corporations and government and willingness to give up everything for 'free stuff'. Your life may be miserable, but it would be a lot more miserable if you believe the government can help you, at least (healthy market) corporations have limits and a reason to ke
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Not really - as the other poster alluded to, all throughout history, traditions like Christmas were used in all kinds of ways. Traditions are partly rules, used as rules tend to be used.
In the age of Mercantilism, pilgrim groups were pushed to give to their causes and trading partners, but to ask for little, and never show any extravagance for the riches they were shipping back.
That's basically making virtue and tradition out of feudalistic ideals. Really a classic reproduction of the cyberpunk view of mo
Screw the TSA, save everyone else. (Score:5, Insightful)
FDA, Air Traffic Control, Parks Service, etc are all needed. But yet the media chooses to harp on the plight of the poor TSA smurfs. You know, the people who say "papers please" before you're boarding a flight in your own country and make you pass through a nudie-scanner or get your crotch groped by them. Yeah, yeah, they're "just doing their jobs." Guess what? If no one was willing to do the job, the job wouldn't be so obnoxious.
Keep everything else, but if TSA were all fired (but we kept real security measures like armed crew, air marshals, reinforced/locked flight deck doors, and a policy of non-cooperation with hijackers), and replaced with private security, it would be a net gain for freedom in the USA.
As it is, the TSA was mostly created as corporate welfare for airlines. It took security out of their hands, thus washed their hands of liability. Strict ID checks also make re-sale of tickets more difficult, thus protect airlines' revenue stream from change fees.
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Hopefully the major impact will be (Score:5, Insightful)
generating a large list of people who should never be re-elected.
Politics in the US should be about what is best for the country, not some personal/political grudges or egregious self interest/self promotion.
If political parties have lost sight of that, voters should make their voices heard (loudly) If voters can't be bothered to fix this mess, they deserve their representation.
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A third of the Senate was up for re-election, and a number of Republicans opted to retire, rather than run for re-election, and STILL the Republicans picked up seats in the Senate - increased their majority.
...by 4. The forecast before the election was they would pick up 6. Those 4 were also much closer than predicted. It was quite far from "unabashed success".
But the Democrats were defending a far larger number of seats in 2016 than the Republicans, so the Democrats lost some. Guess what happens in 2020? Republicans are defending far more seats than Democrats.
Pelosi's passed a bill that passed the Senate 93-6, so "we don't like that bill" isn't going to fly. If it was good enough for 93 "yea" votes in D
The IRS (Score:2)
Called in to work the current tax season. Without pay.
If there's anyone who should be comfortable with working, opening their pay envelope and finding nothing, it's the IRS. Welcome to the club.
Sigh. (Score:5, Insightful)
Meanwhile, in civilised countries, if a budget approval isn't given, the previous authorised budget is automatically continued until such time as a new budget is approved.
Nobody goes unpaid.
Government doesn't get shutdown.
Nobody has to implement emergency measures.
Everything carries on as it did before until someone can get changes approved and sign off on the new budget.
At no point does anything go any more unfunded/underfunded than it already was before the new budget was proposed.
It's almost like those other countries spotted what a stupid idea "shut down the government", including using it as blackmail, was many, many, many centuries ago and worked around it.
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Re:Sigh. (Score:4, Insightful)
Meanwhile, in civilised countries, if a budget approval isn't given, the previous authorised budget is automatically continued until such time as a new budget is approved.
In may countries (particularly those with parliaments) a failure to pass a budget is considered a vote of non-confidence, and it triggers an election. And yes, the government continues to operate with the old budget until a new one is passed, perhaps by a newly-elected government.
And votes of non-confidence are not restricted to budgets. They can be about almost anything important (like Brexit -- see UK current events). In short, the government can fall at any time, and an election ensues.
If only the USA worked like that.
On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does. -- Will Rogers
No Beer - free or otherwise (Score:3)
A local beer company says they may not be able to make "new" summer beers. The labels must be inspected and approved by the government (yes -- the labels, on the can). Their plan is to bring back last years summer beer because those labels are approved. There is a deadline for them to meet the summer demand - but with an expected backlog they still aren't sure they can make it.
Imagine - government killing innovation.
I hope they haven't started making that beer yet. It would be a money loser if it was already in the pipeline. sure they could come out with it later - but who wants to buy a Summer Ale during October Fest?
The shutdown is having a wide impact across several industries.
Why doesn't Congress just approve the budget? (Score:5, Interesting)
Congress can end this shutdown without the president's support or approval. They can pass a budget bill, and send it to the president. If he vetoes it, they can vote to override the veto.
I don't understand why more people aren't holding Congress to task on this. They literally don't need the president's buy-in at all to get a budget passed.
Re:Why doesn't Congress just approve the budget? (Score:5, Informative)
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It should be noted that the bill passed by the House in January passed the Senate 93-6 in December. Pelosi chose it because it passed the Senate by a massive majority already.
(The bill passed the house in December, went to the Senate where it was amended and passed 93-6 and Trump said he'd sign it. It needed to go back to the House because of the amendments, but Trump "changed his mind" and Paul Ryan had one last "fuck you" to deliver to the country and did not bring it up for a vote. Since there is a ne
Why doesn't Trump act like an Adult? (Score:3)
It is only a $5 billion pet project; hardly worth costing the country more than $5 billion in another manufactured crisis.
Remember the last manufactured crisis to create a hostage situation? Literally kidnapping children and holding them hostage; so how anybody couldn't see that this completely predictable if they were paying attention to his threats to his own party over his wall a year ago-- who didn't give it to him either.
The shutdown began before the Democrats got into office; he had a compromise he r
Re: (Score:2)
Trump derangement syndrome. Their hatred for him runs so deep that they're willing to do a complete 180 on border security just to stick it to him, the rest of us be damned.
You falsely imply that keeping illegal border crossings open is important to Democrats.
First, it's not clear what it means for an "illegal border crossing" to be "kept open", but more importantly, the Democrats have already offered over a billion dollars to improve border security -- it's the $5.7B for a "wall" or "physical barrier" or "not a wall from sea to shining sea but merely a few improvements" that Trump's requesting that they're disagreeing with.
I'd also like to point out that while the scope of
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The legislation to open the government has already been passed by the Democrats.
The racist, sexist, senile bastard in the oval office threatened to veto the legislation. So his Republican lap dogs in the Senate just sit on their hands.
Presidents don't close the government unless they get specific funding on a controversial (not publicly supported) budgetary item (the wall). The United States of America has never worked like that.
Only in the traitorous despotic Trumpocracy would idiots expect government to w
Re: Why do Democrats hate American citizens? (Score:2)
Why not pass the bill that is already on his desk? Trump is a terrorist.
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The dems are about to save you a shitload of money, by not allowing a goofball with delusions of grandeur to blow it on something that won't ever stop a single illegal immigrant.
That amount of money would be more than sufficient to actually DO something against illegal immigration. But since when did the Reps ever want to do that? Cheap labor that can't organize isn't easy to find inside the US, ya know...
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Trump derangement syndrome. Their hatred for him runs so deep that they're willing to do a complete 180 on border security just to stick it to him, the rest of us be damned.
If this was about border security then why didn’t the former governer of Texas, and US President for eight years ask for it?
Shit, the last two republican presidents were from Texas, the first Bush doubled down on the War on Drugs. Where was the stop everything and cut a check for all the wall I want back then? Clearly it wasn’t an emergency, and there’s nothing factual suggesting it is now. It’s plainly obvious that both parties are completely happy dolling out chunks of money for
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It's not been a month yet.
$25m x 12 = $300m.
Which is a nearly 1% of their revenue. That's not "nothing". In terms of profit, it may well hurt a lot more - they still have to have planes sitting around doing nothing, and maybe pay pilots. But their REVENUE was hit by at least 1% in doing so, but their costs now.
Delta reported $1.3bn profit a quarter. That means that 1% revenue hit likely means a multi-percent hit to profits, if not more. That's not "nothing". Sure, they're all big numbers, but not noth
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Might wanna consider aircraft are no longer being inspected. We'd kinda like those to stay in the sky.
Also, all the "little guys" getting hurt are the businesses that are not receiving money from federal workers. Not going out to lunch if you're not getting paid. Which means they aren't big enough for headlines, at least until the mass bankruptcies and business failures start rolling in.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_federal_budget
Trump isn't even asking for anything like that. Check the budget docs yourself. Page 121. Unless you've somehow taken the budget numbers for 2019-2028 and mixed them up into one thing
https://www.govinfo.gov/conten... [govinfo.gov]
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When has this ever impressed financial institutes?
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By ... making it essentially unable to function.
Hell, this guy is better than ISIS ever could be! I mean, even blowing up two skyscrapers only shut down the country for a day, not for a full month!
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It's far more fireball-ish than that. Aircraft are not being inspected.