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Tobacco Use is Soaring Among US Kids, Driven By E-cigarettes (axios.com) 246

Public health officials Monday said there's a growing epidemic of tobacco products currently used by children -- 4.9 million high school and middle school kids used tobacco products in 2018 up from 3.6 million in 2017 -- mainly due to a growth in e-cigarette usage. From a report: For the fifth year in a row, e-cigs were the most popular product amongst high school students, but in 2018 it reached unprecedented epidemic levels, with the addition of another 1.5 million kids, said Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "Current users" are defined as people who've used a tobacco product in past 30 days. "Frequent users" are defined as people who've used the product for more than 20 out of the past 30 days.
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Tobacco Use is Soaring Among US Kids, Driven By E-cigarettes

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 11, 2019 @02:52PM (#58105528)

    I personally doubt they are any better for you, but vape juice is definately not tobacco.

    • by pegr ( 46683 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @02:57PM (#58105568) Homepage Journal

      Absolutely better for you. Nicotine is no worse for you than caffeine. It's the other nasties in tobacco that are bad for you.

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/s... [forbes.com]
       

      • by wiggles ( 30088 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:09PM (#58105678)

        That's not true. Nicotine is directly associated with increased stroke and heart attacks. It attacks the venous system.

        https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com... [bmj.com]

        • by slashkitty ( 21637 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:15PM (#58105730) Homepage
          As does caffeine!
          • by wiggles ( 30088 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:19PM (#58105772)

            No. Caffeine in the form of 4 cups or more of coffee per day actually has a preventative effect according to this meta-analysis:
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]

          • by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:27PM (#58105832)

            As does caffeine!

            Quite the opposite. Caffeine (and more broadly, the coffee that many people consume it in), has all sorts of wide ranging health benefits. There have been hundreds of studies by people trying to prove how unhealthy coffee (and caffeine) is, and all the studies ending up proving the exact opposite; that it actually reduces all sorts of illnesses.

            • by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @04:01PM (#58106104)

              As does caffeine!

              Quite the opposite. Caffeine (and more broadly, the coffee that many people consume it in), has all sorts of wide ranging health benefits. There have been hundreds of studies by people trying to prove how unhealthy coffee (and caffeine) is, and all the studies ending up proving the exact opposite; that it actually reduces all sorts of illnesses.

              In moderation though - I have a friend who damn near died from palpitations brought on by coffee consumption.

              As well, the puritans who are shitting their pants because the tobacco users have found a loophole in vaping need vaping to be made as socially unacceptable as tobacco products.

              As a coffee addict, I can tell you that they are hoping to latch onto it as the next thing to be eradicated.

              • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @04:19PM (#58106234)

                In moderation though

                Nearly all caffeine users have little difficulty keeping their use in the "good" range. But for nicotine, there is no "good" range, and it is far more addictive.

                As well, the puritans who are shitting their pants because the tobacco users have found a loophole in vaping

                Nonsense. We are only shitting our pants over kids getting ahold of vaping devices. Adults can do what they want.

                Do you really think that putting a highly addictive and harmful product into the hands of kids is acceptable? They are too stupid and naive to understand the consequences.

                • by Tawnos ( 1030370 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @04:37PM (#58106340)

                  > for nicotine, there is no "good" range, and it is far more addictive.

                  Are you sure about that? From what I've read, there's a potentiating effect of the nicotine caused by MAOIs in tobacco. Further, I have a very hard time finding studies about the health effects of nicotine that isn't from tobacco (smoked, chewed, or otherwise ingested). The health effects of nicotine sans tobacco seem akin to those of caffeine.

                • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

                  by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @07:23PM (#58107134)
                  Comment removed based on user account deletion
                • That's just it, this is only sold age restricted. Who is putting it in kids' hands?

                  • That's just it, this is only sold age restricted. Who is putting it in kids' hands?

                    Hillary and the liberals?

                • In moderation though

                  Nearly all caffeine users have little difficulty keeping their use in the "good" range. But for nicotine, there is no "good" range, and it is far more addictive.

                  https://www.webmd.com/mental-h... [webmd.com]

                  Perhaps I work in the wrong crowds. Nearly everyone I have ever worked with has been told to cut back on their caffiene use, and most have suffered withdrawal symptoms. Several, including me, have hit the 10 cups per day mark that is considered too damn much.

                  As well, the puritans who are shitting their pants because the tobacco users have found a loophole in vaping

                  Nonsense. We are only shitting our pants over kids getting ahold of vaping devices. Adults can do what they want.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

                  Perhaps we might keep the children out of the bars, if we only care about them, and have no intention of impeding adult use. I mean - bar bans if we are interested in keeping vap

            • by mentil ( 1748130 )

              Incidentally, nicotine also has some health benefits. It's not recommended to start smoking just to get those benefits, but if consumed in isolation perhaps.

        • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:33PM (#58105876) Homepage Journal

          From your link:

          Conclusions: The use of NRT is not associated with any increase in the risk of myocardial infarction, stroke, or death.

          So no, nicotine minus the tar, particulates, and carbon monoxide is NOT associated with an increased of cardiovascular risk.

          Looks like you read what you (for some reason) wanted to read rather than what was written.

          • by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:45PM (#58105980) Homepage Journal

            So no, nicotine minus the tar, particulates, and carbon monoxide is NOT associated with an increased of cardiovascular risk.

            BUT...you don't get the enjoyment of lighting one up on the vape thing.

            What was half the fun of smoking real cigarettes....carrying lighters, firing it up, etc....

            I guess the vape things are ok for quitting smoking....but really, once you get off the nicotine, they aren't nearly so much fun as real smoking that uses real fire, and other things like flicking ashes, etc...it kept your non-drinking hand busy.

            • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @04:06PM (#58106142) Homepage Journal

              Well, it is believed that the ritual of smoking is a significant contributor to the addiction.

              • by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @04:55PM (#58106446) Homepage Journal

                Well, it is believed that the ritual of smoking is a significant contributor to the addiction.

                Oh, absolutely the ritual.

                While I'm glad I quit smoking....it really WAS nice to smoke in bars while drinking. You can still in most places down here....and it is tempting.

                There's also the social aspect of it....maybe diminishing,

                BUT...I found at work as they made you smoke outside, I often was talking with co-workers I don't sit near and getting scuttlebutt, I also found myself talking with people MUCH higher up on the totem pole than I, and while I had their ear, I'd give my views on things as well as getting inside info on how things were going. Often I got selected for things due to familiarity driving I believe in part, by them knowing who I was out in the "smoke hole" with them.

                • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @05:10PM (#58106516) Homepage Journal

                  The social aspect at work is very definitely there. Indoors, you couldn't even get 10 seconds with the boss's boss. In the smoking area you could shoot the breeze w/ the CEO.

                  When I did system installs, I found that a trip to the designated smoking area was sometimes a great way to break through a management log jam.

                • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

                  Yeah, after I quit smoking I continued to go hang out with the smokers periodically. After all what are they going to do, punish me for taking the same breaks I did when I smoked?

              • Someone somewhere else pointed out that nicotine substitutes (patch, gum) don't work as well as you would think.

                • by sjames ( 1099 )

                  They fail on multiple points. First, they don't substitute for the ritual of smoking.

                  Perhaps bigger, they don't have enough nicotine in them. They seem to be constructed to relieve "just enough" suffering rather than actually replace the nicotine. This is probably because they didn't realize that the MAOIs in cigarettes are part of the effect. A replacement actually needs to provide MORE nicotine than cigarettes to compensate for the lack of MAOI. Do that for a while and the addiction will loose urgency wit

            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              A longitudinal study by the NIH [nih.gov] found that vaping is a gateway to smoking, and it is likely that access to vapers increases tobacco use among adolescents.

            • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

              "I guess the vape things are ok for quitting smoking....but really, once you get off the nicotine, they aren't nearly so much fun as real smoking that uses real fire, and other things like flicking ashes, etc...it kept your non-drinking hand busy."

              Nah, it's definitely the draw, exhale, and keeping your non-drinking hand busy. Vaping does all of the above... except the last one if you don't chain vape but who doesn't chain vape? As an added bonus it doesn't taste like shit.

          • by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @04:02PM (#58106114)

            From your link:

            Conclusions: The use of NRT is not associated with any increase in the risk of myocardial infarction, stroke, or death.

            So no, nicotine minus the tar, particulates, and carbon monoxide is NOT associated with an increased of cardiovascular risk.

            Looks like you read what you (for some reason) wanted to read rather than what was written.

            It is the modern purist's version of reefer madness. The puritans don't need actual facts.

      • by tk77 ( 1774336 )

        Absolutely better for you....

        Perhaps a better way to put it would be "not as terrible for you".

        http://www.center4research.org... [center4research.org]

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • The health affects of caffeine aren't fully known, but Nicotine does reduce your body's defenses against cancer.

          You're right that vaping is definitely less unhealthy than cigarettes though.

          Until it blows up in your face and kills you.

          https://www.huffingtonpost.com... [huffingtonpost.com]

          • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

            It's just a battery. The issue isn't new to vapes and is common to just about any portable device with a battery depending on what battery chemistry they use.

        • The health affects of caffeine aren't fully known, but Nicotine does reduce your body's defenses against cancer.

          You're right that vaping is definitely less unhealthy than cigarettes though.

          I have some bad news for you about nitrates in vegetables. https://livehealthy.chron.com/... [chron.com] But bacon is bad!

          Life is invariably fatal. SO if you aren't doing harm, chillaxe, bro. And while you are at it, check out the effects of phytoestrogens, which are heavy in foods that are considered the most healthy things you can eat these days. It takes a suspension of logic to think that vaping is any worse than that.

        • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

          In fairness nicotine and caffeine both carry other benefits which might outweigh any negatives. It is naive to assert there are no risks or benefits just as it is naive to assume the existence of risks means it is poor choice to make.

          Caffeine and nicotine are both shown to improve cognitive function with nicotine improving focus and providing a calming effect (including in those who haven't been exposed before). That is a hell of a complimentary pair and the benefits of improved cognitive function and focus

      • by danlip ( 737336 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:18PM (#58105764)

        However, nicotine is much more addictive than caffeine. It would be a mistake to equate them. And there are a variety of other chemicals in the vapes, which may or may not be harmful. And nicotine itself may contribute to cancer too. [healthline.com]

        • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

          by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 )

          However, nicotine is much more addictive than caffeine. It would be a mistake to equate them. And there are a variety of other chemicals in the vapes, which may or may not be harmful. And nicotine itself may contribute to cancer too. [healthline.com]

          And maryjooanna - AKA devil's lettuce -makes black people violent! That sounds insane, but once upon a time, that was considered to be truth,

          The nicotine causes cancer bugaboo is so easy to pull out. Yet it backfires on the puritans on occasion, like when they shit their panties about bacon and cured meats "causing cancer" then we found out that humans get most of their nitrate load from....... wait for it..... veggies!

          We should make eating veggies illegal, just to be safe.

          • And maryjooanna - AKA devil's lettuce -makes black people violent!

            Well, that makes sense. Virginia Governor Ralph Northam latest explanation is that a bong hit made him wear blackface.

            . . . or maybe it was his measles vaccination . . . ?

            • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

              The blackface thing seems silly. It really is no different than men dressed as women in the theater of old. The only negative tone is in the ignorant views of african americans during the time period black face was used, that has nothing to do with blackface itself.

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        "It functions as an antiherbivore chemical; consequently, nicotine was widely used as an insecticide in the past,[11][12] and neonicotinoids, such as imidacloprid, are widely used."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine, hmm tasty, tasty pesticide. There are also cancer indicators and even birth defects. So way worse than caffeine.

    • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @02:59PM (#58105590)

      I personally doubt they are any better for you

      They are certainly better that tobacco. Nicotine is bad, but the other stuff in tobacco smoke is worse, and you avoid that with vaping.

      The problem is that kids are stupid and naive, and they don't realize that vaping is just as addictive as tobacco. By the time they realize how stupid it is, they are hooked.

      We need to find a way to keep vaping devices away from pre-18ers. Maybe move to a prescription model. But that might mean less harm reduction for smokers. It is a difficult issue.

      • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:42PM (#58105954) Homepage Journal

        It actually isn't as addictive as tobacco. Cigarette smoke contains MAO inhibitors that potentiate the addictive properties of nicotine. Vape juice doesn't have those.

        Some vape juice doesn't even have nicotine.

        • by Anonymous Coward

          Correct. Nicotine is not very addictive unless it's processed and mixed with additives to maximize delivery and the addictive properties of nicotine, as is done with cigarettes or the nicotine used in most studies into it's 'addictiveness'. Many people who take up vaping find it far easier than they've been led to expect to move to zero nicotine liquids once they eliminate cigarette use as they never experience the symptoms often attributed to nicotine withdrawal; as they're not addicted to the nicotine, bu

        • MAO inhibitors aren't addictive. I used to take one, then quit cold turkey because of the headaches it gave me after a while. Was nice whilte it lasted, though.

          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            I didn't say the MAOI is addictive, I said it POTENTIATES the addictive properties of the NICOTINE.

            That is, without the MAO, the nicotine hits harder and faster which makes it more addictive.

      • >"We need to find a way to keep vaping devices away from pre-18ers. Maybe move to a prescription model. But that might mean less harm reduction for smokers. It is a difficult issue."

        It isn't that difficult. We already have laws on the book, they just need reasonable enforcement... it is no different than alcohol or actual tobacco products. Retailers just need to check ID's for age. It really is that simple. We don't have or need a "prescription model" for alcohol either (and alcohol is responsible fo

      • Yeah we should pass a law saying you have to be 18 to buy it.

        Oh... We did. Hmm

    • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

      The fact that everybody including the tobacco lobby is trying to find negatives and they've been grasping at straws for the last several years tend to suggest it is more healthy. If nothing else it improves blood oxygen and provides an increase in lung capacity equivalent to stopping smoking.

      The mechanism really isn't much different than devices used to deliver medicine for a number of classes of lung illness so I doubt it is innately evil. There might be some devils in the details, certain flavorings, cert

  • by thereddaikon ( 5795246 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @02:52PM (#58105532)
    Yeah kids shouldn't be using vapes but should it be considered a tobacco product when it doesn't have tobacco in it? The biggest issues I see with them are that they often contain nicotine which is addictive, and the Fed's refusal to regulate them properly means they could have god knows what in the vape juice. Instead of having the pearl clutching knee jerk of they are evil maybe the FDA should actually regulate the things properly so we can ensure that they don't have unsafe chemicals in them.
    • by garcia ( 6573 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:00PM (#58105600)

      No, it shouldn't count; however, they still lump these products together.

      That said, there is some evidence e-cigs help others to quit actual tobacco use, even though the FDA has not yet . [cdc.gov]

      Kids are going to experiment with shit, regardless of controls and limits; we should probably be glad they're experimenting with this delivery method as opposed to what every prior generation has for the last 100+ years.

  • by cordovaCon83 ( 4977465 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:11PM (#58105690)
    If I'm Reading this right [usatoday.com], about 15% of American adults smoke these days, compared to about 42% of adults in 1942. Granted, this story is about teenagers that will soon be adults, and a million more than expected is not a number to be scoffed at, but really when we start getting numbers down that low, I don't know how much more outrage is necessary. The number is never going to be zero percent, no matter what the Puritans wish.
    • If I'm Reading this right [usatoday.com], about 15% of American adults smoke these days, compared to about 42% of adults in 1942. Granted, this story is about teenagers that will soon be adults, and a million more than expected is not a number to be scoffed at, but really when we start getting numbers down that low, I don't know how much more outrage is necessary. The number is never going to be zero percent, no matter what the Puritans wish.

      I'm surprised it's as high as 15%. I almost never see people smoking anymore- and vaping is pretty rare around here.

      • by Hadlock ( 143607 )

        Different people from different backgrounds, both ethnically and financially have different habits. We had a bunch of interns from singapore who smoked like chimneys. A bunch of people can be seen smoking in chinatown... in lower (very very low) income neighborhoods I drive through I see a bunch of people smoking...

        White collar workers will smoke on the weekends at parties, but might never smoke during the week or at the office. Your personal experiences may not reflect all of society.

        15% so

        • White collar workers will smoke on the weekends at parties, but might never smoke during the week or at the office. Your personal experiences may not reflect all of society.

          Well, my experiences don't reflect society if it's at 15%.

          However, I suspect we've seen a shift, not just in % that smoke, but HOW people smoke. The city I live in, 15 years ago there would be butts on the ground outside on every corner where smokers would drop cigarettes out their windows... a lot of burnt grass in intersection medians where they would simmer and char the grass. You don't see that very often now.

          It appears that people that DO smoke are more conscientious about how they smoke now (or just

      • You must live in an absent the poor and uneducated, who comprise the majority of those that still smoke.

        • You must live in an absent the poor and uneducated, who comprise the majority of those that still smoke.

          Quite the contrary actually. I live in a poor midsized Southern town. Now granted, most of the people I personally spend time with are decidedly in the middle, like myself; and I work in a facility where smoking is prohibited, employees are not even allowed to go outside for a smoke break.

      • I knew one guy that vaped for awhile who had never smoked previously. Another guy vapes after quitting smoking, and it drives me nuts because he does it inside at work despite being warned (I think he can't smell it so he assumes no one near him will notice).

      • Australia has smoking rates half in the last 15 years from around 30% to 15%
        - We banned tobacco advertising in the 80's
        - Put them behind counters out of sight in the 90's
        - Instigated plain packaging and banned them from clubs & pubs, office buildings, restaurants in the 00's
        - Highest tax in the world making cigs. about $1/stick, so 20/day will set you back $7k/yr
        - Poor people are twice as likely to smoke as rich.
        - Country people smoke twice as much as city people.

        Of our 70 staff, none of our engineers o

  • by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:15PM (#58105734) Homepage Journal

    Almost all nicotine addiction occurs in middle school (not, as many believe incorrectly, in high school and college), and there are people working for the tobacco addiction industry who know this and are doing what they can to addict the next generations of addicts.

    And, don't lie to yourselves, you're addicts.

    Me, I do socially acceptable addictions that are common in Seattle instead.

    Bubble tea ftw!

  • Not tobacco (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I am not sure if anyone noticed but an e-cigarette contains no actual tobacco. As a cigar smoker I am sick of it getting lumped in.

  • by LostMyAccount ( 5587552 ) on Monday February 11, 2019 @03:42PM (#58105964)

    As far as I can tell, the people with a vested interest in opposing cigarettes are also vehemently opposed to e-cigarettes, despite their much lower risk profile.

    Time and again I find myself reading "news" stories where e-cigarettes are lumped with tobacco use, and many anti-tobacco activists swear up and down that if you vape candy-flavored vape juice FOR SURE you will switch to Marlboro Reds at the first opportunity.

    I just don't see how this could be the case -- I smoked for a decade and *liked it*. In the years since I quit I have tried a few cigarettes out of nostalgia and been absolutely repulsed by them. When I smoked I rolled my own, and occasionally a "light" cigarette smoker would want to try one out of curiosity or because they were out, and almost universally they hated them. If an actual cigarette smoker is turned off by a slightly harsher actual cigarette, then the idea anyone who has only or mostly vaped switching to tobacco seems absurd.

    • As far as I can tell, the people with a vested interest in opposing cigarettes are also vehemently opposed to e-cigarettes, despite their much lower risk profile.

      Time and again I find myself reading "news" stories where e-cigarettes are lumped with tobacco use, and many anti-tobacco activists swear up and down that if you vape candy-flavored vape juice FOR SURE you will switch to Marlboro Reds at the first opportunity.

      It is just another manifestation of most of humanity's deep seated need to hate. Just one out of several target to pick from. As well, the same group is really pissed off that vaper's have found a loophole.

    • by spitzak ( 4019 )

      You apparently switched from nothing to your hand rolled cigarettes, so you are yourself a counter example to your argument.

  • Tobacco is BAD but Marijuana is OK!

    That burning sensation in your lungs is ALL NATURAL!

    • Tobacco is BAD but Marijuana is OK!

      That burning sensation in your lungs is ALL NATURAL!

      Oh, that's a real strawman. People who arebig on hating tobacco use tend to be pretty puritanical about anything. Fear not - they hate those heepees that smoke the deviul's lettuce just fine.

      Meanwhile, one favorite way of smoking weed is rolled as a mix with tabacky, a hollowed out cigar, aka a blunt

  • For the fifth year in a row, e-cigs were the most popular product amongst high school students,

    More popular than Apple, Nike, pornography, snow closure days, and Facebook's latest nightmare loss vector?

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • If they're not doing it already I'd expect it to be in vape pens ASAP if/when it becomes federally legal.
  • How's about a cheaper, cleaner, safer nicotine delivery system? Regulate that shit like caffeine.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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