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Consumer Groups Want To Tax Facebook To Save Journalism (vice.com) 211

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: How to fund ethical journalism in the Facebook era is the multi-billion dollar question of the hour, and a technology-focused consumer group by the name of Free Press believes it has a solution. The group has unveiled a new proposal that suggests taxing all online targeted advertising, then using that money to fund the nation's struggling news empires, big and small. The program would apply a 2 percent tax on companies generating more than $200 million in annual targeted-ad revenues, then use that money to create a "Public Interest Media Endowment." The $2 billion collected annually would then be managed by the government itself, or an outside, existing institution such as the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Such a tax would most obviously apply to both social media giants, but also the giant telecom monopolies increasingly trying to elbow their way into the online ad space. This endowment, in turn, would help fund local journalism, investigative reporting, media literacy, noncommercial social networks, civic-technology projects, and "news and information for underserved communities," suggests the group. "The problem for journalism is that Facebook and Google control nearly 70 percent of this marketplace," Free Press Director Tim Karr told Motherboard via email. "And neither are news organizations. In fact, only one of the top ten digital advertisers in the U.S. (Verizon Media Group/Oath) is in the news business (HuffPost, Techcrunch), and then only partially so."
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Consumer Groups Want To Tax Facebook To Save Journalism

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  • Why journalism? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Roodvlees ( 2742853 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:06AM (#58277490)
    It has a good reputation but with local people reporting on the ground, there's no need.
    Just go do something productive instead.
    Even if it was useful, most journalism is political activism.
    Like the attacks on Convington students showed.
    I could name many more examples, this good reputation is undeserved.
    Walter Duranty covered up the Holodemor and got a pullitzer prize for it.
    So it was never deserved, only now the people can refute these elites.
    • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      ^^^THIS^^^ Journalism over the past two decades has proven it self to be of so little value it wont be missed and it isn't worth subsidizing. What little analysis they provide is hardly objective. I can't name a single Paper or television institution besides *maybe* PBS and NPR that don't have a clearly partisan world views. Even on PBS/NPR various personalities clearly editorialize in what is presented as new content at least at times, although I will say these outfits continue to do better at separating

      • Agreed on NPR but they have a habit of not reporting things that are inconvenient

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        unfortunately mainstream journalism has been taken over by people of politically liberal idealism. If you really need any evidence of that just watch the people literally crying when Hillary lost. Most of them don't care 1 iota about objective journalism.

        I dated a woman who used to work in a newsroom near Boston (about 20 years ago now).
        Here instructions for things coming in from AP were this. 'When it come to child molestation or sexual assault stories, catholic priest are always headline news. Teachers an

        • You're talking about progressive's not liberals.
          They took the word liberal because their own term had become toxic.
        • +1 for reference to CSM. Perhaps not perfect, but better than alternatives I've found.

          I also like how they don't try to be a 24/7 news service. They publish a few in-depth articles a day, and they are happy to wait a couple days before publishing in order to have a more well-written story that contextualizes the discussion.

          I am beginning to suspect that checking the news every minute leads to more intolerance of other viewpoints.

      • Re:Why journalism? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by kenai_alpenglow ( 2709587 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @11:29AM (#58278866)
        NPR has always had a liberal slant. However, they used to be more cerebral about it and not insulting to other trains of thought. Kind of like Joe Lieberman was. Well, the democrats canned Joe (he won anyway), and NPR has lost journalistic integrity to the point I can't listen to it. The last time was during the "Russians/Trump is obviously true" despite total lack of evidence. Shame. I used to listen to the Other Side's arguments when they were well-reasoned and not just insulting. Now they're just a calmer version of MSNBC.
    • MIght as well say, Why have peer review in science. With honest diligent compentent people there's no need.
      The whole problem with the cognitive bubble feeding poison from facebook trolls is the lack of journalistic integrity.

  • by AHuxley ( 892839 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:09AM (#58277504) Journal
    If people like journalism a lot they will pay for it.
    Start doing journalism that sells and that people will support.
    Why should a new tax have to look after any normal "job"?
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:24AM (#58277552) Homepage Journal

      The problem with journalism being profit driven, especially in an age where news is basically a commodity that everyone gets for free, is that it corrupts it into a toxic mixture of outrage and hyper-partisan opinion.

      When you look at the least biased, most reliable source of news and analysis they tend to be the ones that are not dependent on getting views - the BBC, and agencies like Reuters and AFP.

      • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        Thats why letting journalism find its own money is so important.
        So it is not having to consider a gov, tax payers, mil, an endowment, some random billionaire, NGO, think tank, Communist government, industrialist for its funding.
        Write what people want to read and what people want to pay for.
        Why should a new tax have to pay for more gov/mil propaganda?
        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 15, 2019 @09:05AM (#58277754)

          forcing journalism to find a money stream has directly lead to billionaires fighting over the news they can pay for

          • forcing journalism to find a money stream has directly lead to billionaires fighting over the news they can pay for

            Actually the current problem of all news being controlled by a single digit number of owners has more to do with Clinton's sins of the 90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

            • by chthon ( 580889 )

              That might be a reason. Here in Europe Clinton did not have any say in anything, but we have the same problem, even in small countries.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Write what people want to read and what people want to pay for.

          That's the exact opposite of good journalism. That's just creating a bubble that people will pay to inhabit. That's just provoking people to anger so they buy your newspaper or watch your channel.

        • by Xarius ( 691264 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @10:13AM (#58278234) Homepage

          Well government funding is extremely well-suited to endeavours that you do not want to be tied to a profit motive. Healthcare, military, and education are perfect examples.

          High-quality unbiased journalism fits the same category, and is a "public good". The BBC model is a very good one (not quite perfect). It relies on a "tax" of sorts, but it's legally structured in such a way that it is not beholden to the government in any way and is not a state news service.

          (If you're from the USA you might have different views on what government should fund)

          • Well government funding is extremely well-suited to endeavours that you do not want to be tied to a profit motive.

            But not well suited at all to an endeavor you want to be completely free of government influence.

          • The problem with the BBC model for journalism is that it creates a huge monolithic organization for news. That promotes groupthink [wikipedia.org]. You need to have a way for small, unconventional, and extremist views to be publicized, so those ideas can spread as long as a sufficient portion of the public who listens agrees with what they're saying. The acceptability of "news" should not be based on getting the approval of some editor or influential journalists who can decide what is or isn't newsworthy. Grass-roots j
        • What would be hilarious would be if the journalist agencies got their tax, and then those receiving the tax revenues were required to uphold the Bill of Rights and the rest of the Constitution where applicable, since the tax dollars they are getting are public funds.

      • by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @09:29AM (#58277900)
        The news agencies backed by Russia and other similar governments aren't dependent on getting views either. Don't be so quick to propose that model as a solution.

        The problem isn't that journalism is profit driven. Were that the case, this would have already happened decades ago when the news media was every bit as profit driven. In some ways it already did happen, but we look back at those good old days through a rose colored lens and neglect to remember that there was similar levels of sensationalism and partisanism. Look at something like the National Enquirer and tell me that fake news is a recent phenomena. The term "yellow journalism" dates back over a century. None of this is a new problem.

        The real issue is that the internet and a host of other technologies have made it incredibly inexpensive for anyone to do reporting, which means that the traditional news media is being squeezed by independent or small organizations that don't have the added expenses that old outfits have. When something becomes less expensive to produce, you naturally get more of it. Now there's hundreds of people offering hundreds of takes.

        If you want a conservative point of view, there are people who will provide that. If you want a liberal point of view, there're plenty of people to provide that as well. There's everything in between and even more extreme. If you're a batshit crazy loon, there's someone out there catering to that as well. They were always there, but it was a lot harder to distribute their little pamphlets or newsletters 30 years ago, whereas today they can broadcast to the entire world and powerful search engines and social media have made it easy for people to find what they're looking for.
      • When you look at the least biased, most reliable source of news and analysis they tend to be the ones that are not dependent on getting views - the BBC, and agencies like Reuters and AFP.

        Government funded news is going to favor government that funds news. NPR is a shining example. Yes, I love NPR, but they even acknowledge that their listenership skews Democratic, and their coverage reflects that.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The BBC is accuses of bias by all sides of the political spectrum, by the government and the opposition. I take that as a good sign.

      • The problem with journalism being profit driven, especially in an age where news is basically a commodity that everyone gets for free, is that it corrupts it into a toxic mixture of outrage and hyper-partisan opinion.

        When you look at the least biased, most reliable source of news and analysis they tend to be the ones that are not dependent on getting views - the BBC, and agencies like Reuters and AFP.

        The sources you cite have an agenda, it's just a bit more subtle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] https://www.investors.com/poli... [investors.com] It's not unlike colleges that chased out all of the conservatives. They may not even realize just how biased they and and certainly other viewpoints must be wrong because all their friends and colleagues think the same way. It's like the worst of small town close mindedness but at a professional level.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          You will never create the perfect, unbiased source of news. Compared to commercial offerings though, the BBC is better than most. In fact I can't think of a commercial operation as good as them.

          • You will never create the perfect, unbiased source of news. Compared to commercial offerings though, the BBC is better than most. In fact I can't think of a commercial operation as good as them.

            Are they? How was their coverage of the Covington Schoolboys story?

            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              Seems okay.

              https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wor... [bbc.co.uk]

              Can't you just google it yourself though?

              • Seems okay.

                https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wor... [bbc.co.uk]

                Can't you just google it yourself though?

                From the first line in your link:

                Nick Sandmann (left) and Nathan Phillips (right) both said they were trying to defuse tensions

                From the actual video: Nathan Phillips went right up to Sandmann, clearly inciting him.

                That article is trying to spin it as "no one really knows what happened", with every single eyewitness quoted in that article saying the kids started it. The actual video shows the kids as the victims, and the blacks and Indian groups as the aggressors.

                That is not a balanced article: they show the snipped video that makes the children look like the aggressors, but don't even link to the wh

    • by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:27AM (#58277568)

      Start doing journalism that sells and that people will support.

      We tried that model and the problem is that stops being journalism and starts being sensationalism. Eventually, it diverges from reality completely at which point it's like a tabloid. Fox News is the greatest example of this.

      Why should a new tax have to look after any normal "job"?

      Because it's not a normal job. An informed public is elemental to a healthy democracy.

      • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        Many jobs can be listed as not normal if its time for free funding from a tax.
        Want to a new tax to look after many of such jobs?
      • by nitehawk214 ( 222219 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:56AM (#58277716)

        The problem with state-sponsored media is that for every BBC there are a dozen Russia Todays.

        And I don't even know if BBC is unbiased when it comes to British politics. As an American, the BBC's famed neutrality seems based on its view of the USA.

      • An informed public is elemental to a healthy democracy.

        Sure, sensationalism sucks but this alternative is far worse. Do you really want whoever is currently in power deciding which outlets receive funding?
        For news to be worth anything it can't be controlled by the government and if the government is collecting the money and distributing it then they effectively control the media. Would CNN receive some of this tax money? What about Fox News? What about Breitbart? What about Wikileaks? What about the National Enquirer? How can anyone fairly decide who ge

      • Because it's not a normal job. An informed public is elemental to a healthy democracy.

        And a PROPERLY informed public is even more essential! People hearing about things that Top Men think are unimportant is something that needs to be squelched ASAP!

      • Because it's not a normal job. An informed public is elemental to a healthy democracy.

        You do realize the danger of the government controlling the media directly right? If they were serious about this they would take pains to ensure a level playing field and that the all viewpoints were represented by people that actually understand them. More akin to this: https://heterodoxacademy.org/ [heterodoxacademy.org] What I, and probably many others, suspect we would get is a left leaning America hating "official news" organization that shuts out all cisgender white males while loudly accusing others of discrimination.

    • That's how we got Fox News...

    • If people like journalism a lot they will pay for it.

      Why do you think that? They never have. Most journalism in the last 100 years was not primarily paid for by the end consumer but by advertisements. Most journalism that has tried to bill the end reader directly hasn't worked out because the economic model doesn't work very well.

      Think about it for a second. How do you assign a value to information you don't have yet? That's what selling stories It's impossible both for buyer and seller. I don't know what a piece of information is worth until I actuall

    • by mjwx ( 966435 )

      If people like journalism a lot they will pay for it.
      Start doing journalism that sells and that people will support.
      Why should a new tax have to look after any normal "job"?

      That's the problem.

      They've spent so long printing crap that sells that none of them know how to practice real journalism. An investigative piece on an important issue gets buried down at page 78 between the personals and the classifieds because it isn't as gritty and hard hitting as the latest celeb sex scandal which makes the front page.

      News agencies that have for so long been nothing but political mouthpieces for their owners (Murdoch, Rotherham, et al.) have made such a mockery of news, conflating

    • If people like journalism a lot they will pay for it.
      Start doing journalism that sells and that people will support.

      Quite true. The point at which it all falls apart is assuming that well-researched investigative journalism is necessarily "journalism that sells". Journalism that agrees with what the audience already thinks regardless of the evidence is journalism that sells.

      • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        How was "well-researched investigative journalism" supported over months and years in the past all around the USA?
        The newspaper had other content that "sold" to cover the costs of its "investigative journalism".
        While a few skilled and smart people did investigative journalism for months, other workers at the newspaper had to sell newspapers everyday.
        With ads, car reviews, local sport, international news, sport, politics, puzzles, hobbies, local crime stories, good news stories, financial news.
        Sections
        • That is indeed a very good description of how the system worked and why it broke. So now we need to figure out how to fix it (government funding for journalism is absolutely not a good idea on how to fix it, alas).

  • by known_coward_69 ( 4151743 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:09AM (#58277506)

    all the job sites, ebay and craigslist functions were originally controlled by the newspapers. if you wanted a job in NYC, you bought the Sunday NY Times. if you wanted to hire someone, you advertised in a newspaper.

    They acted snobby when the internet came and watched their revenues vaporize

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      They thought it would last for decades and decades.
      People found better things to do and read.
      The money stopped.
      Now we need a tax to support something people stopped paying for?
      Who else can get tax support like that?
    • It's hard to unwind your bussiness model, snobbery or not. To compete with free craigslist ads? TO compete with nearly free e-bay ads? they'd have to go to no revenue almost overnight. How do you do that and support the NEWS function which isn't free? The were caught in a jam.

  • No, thank you. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rickb928 ( 945187 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:19AM (#58277540) Homepage Journal

    No. Public subsidies for journalism are wrong on so many levels. As wrong as public financing of political campaigns, though those are very popular.

    • When Canadian record companies wanted to put a tax on blank CDs because they claimed that piracy was destroying their business, people here rightly criticized them. I think the same applies here. Find a way to adapt or get the hell out of the way of those that are trying to do so. Journalism will continue to exist even if it looks completely different to the way it does now, just like music would continue to exist without the record companies.
  • Probably more likely a group funded and run by a major publisher, much like how the coal industry runs numerous anti-nuclear groups portraying themselves as grass roots movements.
  • by RedK ( 112790 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:34AM (#58277600)

    ... I see : Opinion, Opinion, Opinion, Perspective, Why X is Y, Opinion, Opinion, Perspective...

    I think I found the issue with "Journalism".

    • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      ... I see : Opinion, Opinion, Opinion, Perspective, Why X is Y, Opinion, Opinion, Perspective...

      I think I found the issue with "Journalism".

      It's saturation. Even with global connectivity, there's really not enough stuff happening that is newsworthy enough to fill content 24/7. The only way to generate that content is to start loading up on opinion pieces or editorials. Used to with newspapers, you had the opinion or editorial pieces in their own section. Now you have opinions mixed in with actual reporting articles, blurring the lines between personal opinion or reported fact. Sure, the opinion pieces always (well, should always) have disc

    • Scrolling down the NYT and WAPO Twitter timeline... I see : Opinion, Opinion, Opinion, Perspective, Why X is Y, Opinion, Opinion, Perspective...

      I think I found the issue with "Journalism".

      You do know the Twitter timeline is curated based on what you engage with? What does this tell us about what you engage with on Twitter?

  • by XxtraLarGe ( 551297 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:35AM (#58277610) Journal
    If you want to have ethical journalism, how about not starting out by taking other people's money away to fund your own pet project? And how about reporting facts instead of speculation as news? How many times have we seen during the entire Mueller Russia hoax sensational headlines and "bombshell" statements from anonymous sources, with most stories ending with "So far no evidence of Russia collusion has been found." Apparently being ethical to these guys means writing all the agitprop that's unfit to print.
  • by onyxruby ( 118189 ) <onyxruby@ c o m c a s t . net> on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:37AM (#58277620)

    Journalistic standards have become nothing more than an idealistic concept. Take the Covington kid was tried and convicted in the media for what was effectively face crime. Even a basic check of the facts would have quickly shown that the kid was innocent of the accusations laid against him. Unfortunately it took a $250 million dollar lawsuit against the Washington Post to get them to correct their previous coverage.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]

    Their journalists finally remembered their 'standards' and wrote up a much more accurate story. Too bad it took a $250 million defamation lawsuit in order for it to happen.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]

    Fact of the matter is that journalism is dying because people don't trust journalists.

    https://www.cjr.org/the_media_... [cjr.org]

    If you don't trust someone you don't value them. If you don't value someone you will try to avoid paying for their services.

    • by sinij ( 911942 )
      This phenomena of sensationalism and extreme partisanship is a direct consequence of dwindling revenues. Consider the following - if Fox News offered balanced and critical coverage of Trump presidency, do you think they would remain profitable?

      Fundamentally, people don't like getting bad news and are all too happy to shoot (financially) the messenger.
    • Fact of the matter is that journalism is dying because people don't trust journalists.

      It's equally dying because people blindly trust random people on the Internet despite not trusting journalists.

  • Free !== Freedom (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cordovaCon83 ( 4977465 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @08:37AM (#58277622)
    A free press requires a free market solution. Any market that accepts government handouts is beholden to government interests, ergo any tax that subsidizes the industry is not in the interest of Freedom of the Press.

    Online magazines need to think harder about how to monetize their websites. Perhaps they could write up a Terms of Service that explicitly charges for sharing their links? It fits their argument - journalists as content creators are what add actual value to social media sites. Perhaps the social media sites should be following the same rules that newspapers and magazines have been for decades.
    • by fish_in_the_c ( 577259 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @10:07AM (#58278194)

      of coarse if they don't take government hand outs they are beholden to either advertisers or rich benefactors who make large donations. Every review stream comes with some possible compromise of objectivity. Until the penalty for reporting things that are factually wrong is so high that it negates any benefit to money, the problem will probably not be fixed.

    • Perhaps they could write up a Terms of Service that explicitly charges for sharing their links?

      Cutting down on link sharing will only make them less popular. Also, it's not clear that you could even enforce such a ToS in most countries.

    • "A Free Market = Free Press" -- wow, I guess reality must be a huge disappointment then.

      Government financed news can possibly be fair, or at least non-commercial, but as soon as you put something out that is "free" the customer is the advertiser and the person consuming that media is the product. That's why Fox could run for a loss for ten years and pay to be played to build a market. And Wapo runs at a mega million loss each year. We have to wonder what's in it for the charitable backers to throw money at

  • Well, I think things will be coming full circle.
    In days gone by, I remember the news (the big news anyway) being something a journalist worked away on for some time, following up leads, evaluating, and getting to a truth (or at least a stab at being impartial) of the matter. That's how they won big awards, and gained reputation, for uncovering things that needed to be uncovered, and for spending weeks, months, or years tracing stories, going through all kinds of data, analysing and filtering out the extran

  • This whole thing falls apart when you ask the simple question of which "journalists" get money. Fox News? MSNBC? Intercept? Breibart? My local alternative newspaper? Who gets to choose?
  • That's an awesome idea. Some might argue this would be opening the doors to propaganda. I say that's fine. The more we bolster and amplify the current corporate propaganda machine, the less ignorant the populace would be. Fixing Facebook's journalism problem in this manner could ultimately fix the citizens in fly-over states by snuffing out their propensity to question authority or, worse, their desire to live lives free from authoritarian reality warping. With a Ministry of Truth amply funding news outlets

  • by MSTCrow5429 ( 642744 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @10:02AM (#58278166)

    It is better propaganda than "special-interest group for corporate welfare for the media."

  • The people who they claim need it aren't going to use it. It's just another stupid idea to waste other people's money.
  • by Chris Mattern ( 191822 ) on Friday March 15, 2019 @11:57AM (#58279124)

    We can save independent journalism by making it depend on government funding! Uh, wait...

  • There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to the public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law. Neither individuals not corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of

  • Sounds like a money-grab scheme to me. The last thing in the world we need is a government-sponsored Ministry of Propaganda. Imagine what it would look like if Trump controlled the news (or Obama, or Bush, or Clinton, etc.). Worst idea ever!

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