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United States China Security

US Will Rethink Cooperation With Allies Who Use Huawei (reuters.com) 230

Washington does not see any distinction between core and non-core parts of 5G networks and will reassess sharing information with any allies which use equipment made by China's Huawei, a U.S. cybersecurity official said on Monday. From a report: "It is the United States' position that putting Huawei or any other untrustworthy vendor in any part of the 5G telecommunications network is a risk," said Robert Strayer, deputy assistant secretary for cyber, international communications and information policy at the State Department. "If other countries insert and allow untrusted vendors to build out and become the vendors for their 5G networks we will have to reassess the ability for us to share information and be connected with them in the ways that we are today," he said. Further reading: UK To Let Huawei Firm Help Build 5G Network.
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US Will Rethink Cooperation With Allies Who Use Huawei

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  • Makes you wonder if they're concerned they won't be able to do eavesdropping like this on foreign leaders anymore: https://www.thelocal.de/20160223/nsa-eavesdropped-on-merkels-intimate-conversations [thelocal.de]
    • I am curious why we are so butthurt with Huawei when we have facebook, google and all of these breaches.

      Sure its one thing to protect national security and the nation. Oh wait that is the same thing.

      • by Anonymous Coward
        It comes down to this: the government's secrets (aka. dirty laundry) are more important than yours.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Huawei is a known-guilty spying tentacle wholly owned and operated by the Communist Party of China. You have to be some kind of intentional retard to think that is somehow not the real reason the US and other nations see it as a threat.

      (You're a moron.)

      • by bickerdyke ( 670000 ) on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @02:47AM (#58514696)

        The key word is "known".

        If anything was actually known, it would be easy to kick Huawei from public tenders. So please CIA, NSA, FBI and whoever, if you have anything that could be used as evidence - please go ahead and present it. Lots of countries would be glad if they had something that could be used to lock out chinese competition so please... we are waiting.

        [crickets]

        Hmmm... guess it's just hearsay then.

        And as a friendly reminder: The telco equipment that is actually known to have put a backdoor into their equipment is.. (drumroll): Cisco

        • Just because it is not known to you, doesn't mean it is not known. Revealing the information may compromise the source of the information.

          The three-letter agencies may want to keep milking that cow, and they aren't beholden to YOU to understand. They only need elected officials that control their budgets and authorization to understand.

          Feel free to press on those elected officials to explain it to you, as they are ultimately accountable.

        • by thereddaikon ( 5795246 ) on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @07:33AM (#58515592)
          There is literally an article above this one right now about how Vodaphone found backdoors in Hauwei equipment. Can you morons please get your head out of your asses and realize what's going on here? 5 eyes member's intelligence agencies have known about security issues with chinese networking equipment for some time. What we are seeing is the diplomatic way to tell everyone to drop it without causing a seen and making the Chinese all pissy for losing face. How many backdoors have to be found? How many articles do I have to read where oops an entire carrier's network was rerouted to run through Beijing for months before anyone noticed? How many times to I have to hear about China fucking with internet routing? They cannot be trusted with networks. We should blackhole their whole country from the internet now and save ourselves the heartache.
          • Yes. Above this one, meaning it came out after this one. I saw that too and thought "finally". After only beating around the bush for months.

            According to news even the five eyes did not "know" about that, they "have been told" with no supporting material. (made the news over here as we just auctioned of the 5g frequencies)

          • And above that a denial of that report. And that report is basically yes we found issues and they were fixed as requested.

            The denial: " It would not have been accessible from the internet. Bloomberg is incorrect in saying that this 'could have given Huawei unauthorised access to the carrier's fixed-line network in Italy.' In addition, we have no evidence of any unauthorised access. This was nothing more than a failure to remove a diagnostic function after development.""

            Now, I'm gonna need you to provide som

          • There is literally an article above this one right now about how Vodaphone found backdoors in Hauwei equipment.

            The article literally above that one says Vodafone Denies Bloomberg Report on Security Flaws in Huawei Equipment. It was a telnet port. I've had a HP printer with a telnet port "accidentally" left open until I updated the firmware. In this case, it's there for a reason... it's obvious it's there... and it's simple to block if it was a concern. Non-issue. Seriously!

        • Just two postings later here on Slashdot, proof of backdoors in their equipment from Italy:

          https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
        • there's a way to do it: Lock them out. Seriously. It might not be the best idea to have our entire voice telecom network dependent on a foreign power with a history of abusing it's people. Yeah, yeah, now's the part where you list the reasons the US is bad too, but I'd argue our fundamentals are better. Rapid industrialization made a mess of China.
        • So please CIA, NSA, FBI and whoever, if you have anything that could be used as evidence - please go ahead and present it.

          Be careful what you wish for bro. The last time there was a call for "hidden answers" we got planes thrown into some buildings kicking off more than a decade of war that is still ongoing.

          To elucidate: Bill Clinton, in August of 1998, sent a fuckload of Tomohawk missiles into Afghanistan. There was international outrage over the incident and everyone demanded to know the actual intel and how the US Government got it.

          Well, the pressure grew and grew and eventually, it came out that the NSA was spying on the s

          • Well, I kinda have to agree with you here, but unfortunately I have to agree most with the "be careful what you wish for" part.

            You are basically OK with country A lauchning a military attack with "a fuckload of Tomohawk missiles" onto country B and ask every other country to hold their feet. Are you really OK with that or only if country A happens to be the US? Because then it can't be bad? Is it legal if "the president does it"?

      • "There is no threat to US. security from Huawei." This message brought to you by PLA Unit 61398l
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by locater16 ( 2326718 )
      Obviously the Chinese can't have a backdoor, that's ours damnit!
    • That wasn't done through an NSA backdoor. The technique is widely known and used by many nations. It's why Obama needed a special iPhone to prevent it. Any call made on any interesting person's cellphone in the DC area is routinely tapped by the Russians, Chinese, British, French, Germans, Saudis, Israelis, etc.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Actually I think they have a point this time. Countries should not be using suspect foreign technology which they have no ability to independently audit.

      Therefore the UK should immediately ban Cisco hardware from all its networks, and instead only work with companies that allow code audits and aren't known to be working with foreign intelligence agencies.

    • by sd4f ( 1891894 )

      I can't help but feel that's one of the reasons why. There have been articles floating around, I've posted one before from zero hedge that claimed that the NSA approached huawei years ago, to implement a backdoor, but huawei said no.

      https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-19/5g-huawei-and-us-america-hates-competition [zerohedge.com]

      The competition angle is nothing new though. It has been practiced for decades. I suspect that ultimately this decision to ban huawei was pretty simple, it's of no benefit to the USA, while pro

  • Thats ok... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Richard_at_work ( 517087 ) on Monday April 29, 2019 @10:55PM (#58513900)

    If the US wants to rethink sharing data with the UK, then I'm sure the UK will rethink giving US agencies access to such places as:

    - RAF Menwith Hill, one of the largest ECHELON SIGINT capturing sites, with over 600 US staff
    - GCHQ Bude, a facility the NSA paid £15Million to upgrade as recently as 2010
    - RAF Fylingdales, a key site in the US Ballistic Missile Early Warning System

    So go ahead, US, this could get interesting...

    • Sounds to me like you need Americans so badly that you actually let hundreds of them occupy your most important installations.
      • Its amazing how people spin shit like that to fit their own agendas... How did you come to that conclusion?

        • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
          Re "How did you come to that conclusion?"
          Everything the US allows the UK to use is still under full US control :)
    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      RAF Menwith Hill, GCHQ Bude, RAF Fylingdales are all sites designed for and kept working with US cooperation.
      Sites that the US can stop working with and then remove all US equipment.
      The UK is then left with an empty building it calls a "base".
      What the US gave the UK the US can remove. Just like US sites in West Germany that got returned to Germany :)
      • The US government didn't "give" these to the UK. These places exist because they have much more value to the the US government having them located in the UK rather than Stateside. Don't fool yourself.

        • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
          Everything advanced the UK got was from the US or approved by the US for the UK to buy.
          The US gave the UK permission to upgrade and had to ensure shared UK sites would work with US systems and networks.
          The US was not going to allow the UK to use it mil budget over decades on random non US junk products and services that would never work with US 5 eye networks.
          5 eye is about sharing with the USA. No the UK using US tax payers money buying duplicate networks for UK use only.
          What the US allowed the UK to
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • given that people like Osama bin Laden used to be a CIA operative, not sharing data with you is just an appetizer in the US revenge plan, if you refuse to be a puppet of the American spy and military industry complex.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    The USA has it in for this company are are being right a-holes about it.

  • by swell ( 195815 ) <jabberwock@poetic.com> on Monday April 29, 2019 @11:06PM (#58513940)

    Let Huawei make all the 5G stuff they want and sell it where they want. 5G is an illusion. Outside a few densely populated areas it will be useless. It will require hundreds of thousands of additional cell towers, spaced ten feet (~3 meters) apart. Most of those towers will be protested against by anti-vaxxers who are sure they are causing cancer and brain damage (as if they had one).

    By 2023, when the world finally realizes that 5G is a hoax, Huawei will be promoting 6G, the Big One. The tech in there will far exceed our ability to comprehend. Look out for that USA and allies!

    • by Anonymous Coward

      It's not 5G that anyone is actually worried about, it's Huawei's switches and software. 5G is a clusterfuck wrapped in a poorly thought out concept. Huawei having antennaes everywhere that secretly exfiltrate traffic, that's something else.

    • by jimbo ( 1370 ) on Monday April 29, 2019 @11:27PM (#58514006)

      5g works just fine on 700MHz with its improved protocols, dynamic bandwidth allocation and channel management, etc.

      You're thinking of mmWave 5g which provides better aggregate bandwidth for large number of users in densely populated locations.

      • by swell ( 195815 )

        How odd! So those promises of 50Gb/sec were untrue? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked. Well I'm sure the Wall Street bankers will get those speeds for their high-speed trading and the White House will have high speed Tweets at hand. But you say that the rest of us will still have 4G? And we're expected to invest $1,000+ for a so-called 5G phone?

        Anyway you are a party pooper and lack anything resembling a sense of humor. Go back into your basement and don't come out until you find one.

    • Found the Chinese shill.
    • 5G is an illusion. Outside a few densely populated areas it will be useless. It will require hundreds of thousands of additional cell towers, spaced ten feet (~3 meters) apart.

      5G does not require any additional cell towers compared to 4G, not unless you think 5G = OMG TEH FASTETS MEGABITS and completely ignore the myriad of other changes the technology brings, much of which can provide a really good improved feature set even if you use 700MHz or even lower frequencies with wider coverage.

      Sorry for the reply, I have trouble telling trolling from true ignorance on Slashdot.

    • by Sid314 ( 3462141 )
      You are ignorantly confusing 5G with 5G mmWave.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    If the unproven allegations about Huawei turn out to be true, the US will end up being ahead.

    If not, the US wouldnhave lost both goodwill and friends for a trade war.

    The fact is that whatever evidence Pompeo sent to Theresa, it wasn't compelling enough.

    So, as you were, and let's see where it ends up in a year or two.

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Think of the budget savings of not having to look after US sites and bases in the UK.
      Removing all US nuclear support for UK subs.
      Not having to pay for upgrades to UK shared sites anymore.
      The US can take that support and give it to Canada, New Zealand, Taiwan, the real China.
      • by gtall ( 79522 )

        "The US can take that support and give it to Canada, New Zealand, Taiwan, the real China." BS, Trump will just piss it off on more of his boondoggles. You forget he's already at odds with Canada, New Zealand is so small it doesn't count, and he won't really support Taiwan because, y'know, they are foreigners and would get in the way of his Big New Trade Deal with China.

      • Think of the budget savings of not having to look after US sites and bases in the UK.

        We have that stuff there so that we can monitor the situation in the area, and rapidly deploy troops if necessary. The US never wants to shut down military bases anywhere if it can help it.

      • Taiwan is the real China about as much as Canada is the real USA.

    • In fairness, "Theresa May makes good decisions with regard to foriegn relations and alliances" is not a sentence anyone in Britain (or the world) is likely to ever utter.

  • strange. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bloodhawk ( 813939 )
    If you are dependent on the 5G provider being secure to keep your comms going over it secure you are already fucked to begin with.
    • by ledow ( 319597 )

      Exactly... the medium doesn't matter, because the protocols are expressly designed to form a trusted connection over an untrusted medium even if an attacker has access to every exchange byte of data.

      But the problem is not one of security in terms of encryption. It's a matter of security, as in "national security", as in your 5G network not just switched off one day because you went to war with China.

      In that respect, they have a point, but why they should impose upon their allies about who to use or not, wh

  • I know why the US is trying to block allies from using Huawei hardware.. It's too hard to hack for them and the US want it's allies have to use hardware from suppliers they already have forced to add backdoors in secrecy. It's all about being able to spy and control it's own allies.
    • I know why the US is trying to block allies from using Huawei hardware.. It's too hard to hack for them and the US want it's allies have to use hardware from suppliers they already have forced to add backdoors in secrecy. It's all about being able to spy and control it's own allies.

      The Trump administration is working very hard to dismantle every single alliance they US has built since 1776 so I don't think this is about allies. I also don't really think Huawei's gear is any harder to hack than any other equipment and the US has the resources to continue its spying without its allies, it will just have to spend a bit more and change tactics. The US has simply discovered that sitting with your thumb up your fundament, fighting a war on science secure in the knowledge that god almighty w

      • by gtall ( 79522 )

        For Trump administration to "dismantle every single alliance", they'd have to recognize those alliances exist and hence spend no effort to maintain them. It simply doesn't rise to something important for the government to be doing. Now building the Great White Wall, that's a endeavor that really resonates with this crowd.

        One thing to remember about the current U.S. administration, nothing is related to anything else. There's no grand strategy, there's no foresight, there's no calculating secondary effects,

        • For Trump administration to "dismantle every single alliance", they'd have to recognize those alliances exist and hence spend no effort to maintain them. It simply doesn't rise to something important for the government to be doing. Now building the Great White Wall, that's a endeavor that really resonates with this crowd.

          One thing to remember about the current U.S. administration, nothing is related to anything else. There's no grand strategy, there's no foresight, there's no calculating secondary effects, there's no expert information flowing to the top where it will be acted upon. The administration is simply a doting parent who can stop trying to provide their 5 year old brat anything he wants.

          Yup, the Trump Administration is basically a bunch of complete and utterly out of shape amateur couch potatoes, 'winging it' in a Football game against the New England Patriots.

    • The fascinating thing about the US Government is that such cynicism is reasonable, but... the people in the US Government *still* actually want to do good things for people. So you are not wrong, but that is not the whole story. They may actually be trying to warn us about an actual danger too. (but you are still right!)

      TL;DR, the issue is complex and no single answer suffices.

  • The US made sure of that a long time ago. Either do it with non-trustworthy vendors or do without 5G.

    This is just a dishonest, anti-competitive attempt at market manipulation, nothing else.

  • by meerling ( 1487879 ) on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @03:45AM (#58514862)
    It seems more that our Allies won't trust the US until Trump & fiends are gone.
    After all he disses allies, sucks up to enemies, breaks treaties, ignores international agreements, and basically treats everyone like shit.
    • The world has been loudly demanding an end to American bullying for quite some time. Now Trump is giving them what they want and that's wrong? We're sick of paying to defend the borders of other countries while we cannot defend our own.
      • by gtall ( 79522 )

        You mean the border that is to prevent the C. Americans fleeing the results of America's appetite for drugs? That border?

        The U.S. only was powerful because it had allies. The Soviet Union and its thug in succession, Russia, have no allies. Neither does China. They have vassals who'll stick a knife in their back if they turn around. Another few years of Trump and the U.S. will be in the same predicament.

        • Maybe he means the border that is to prevent the C. Americans fleeing the results of America's "generous" trade deals or cartoonish irresponsibility with firearms.

    • You are a dumbass. This has nothing to do with Trump. Your hatred of Trump is unhinged. He doesn't have absolute control over everything just because he is President and many of his policies and ideas will be gone when he is. He just isn't THAT important, but that is all you can focus on. The word "insane" comes to mind.

  • They protest about China spying, but that's not the real issue. The issue is Huawei lacks the backdoors the NSA uses to spy on us. Yes, they don't spy on our enemies, they spy on US. The director of the NSA lied to Congress under oath about it. He got off scot-free and didn't serve a day in prison.
  • ...use any vendor other than a US company and there'll be financial consequences.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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