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Google Warns of US National Security Risks From Huawei Ban (ft.com) 119

Google has warned the Trump administration it risks compromising US national security if it pushes ahead with sweeping export restrictions on Huawei [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; alternative source], as the technology group seeks to continue doing business with the blacklisted Chinese company. Financial Times: Senior executives at Google are pushing US officials to exempt it from a ban on exports to Huawei without a licence approved by Washington, according to three people briefed on the conversations. The Trump administration announced the ban after the US-China trade talks collapsed, prompting protests from some of the biggest US technology companies who fear they could get hurt in the fallout.

Google in particular is concerned it would not be allowed to update its Android operating system on Huawei's smartphones, which it argues would prompt the Chinese company to develop its own version of the software. Google argues a Huawei-modified version of Android would be more susceptible to being hacked, according to people briefed on its lobbying efforts. Huawei has said it would be able to develop its own operating system "very quickly."

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Google Warns of US National Security Risks From Huawei Ban

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  • by gwjgwj ( 727408 ) on Friday June 07, 2019 @10:44AM (#58725024) Homepage
    n/t
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Oh, yes. If somebody major (and Huawei is about twice the size of Google) does a successful fork of Android, then Google will be losing a major part of its influence on the market.

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Friday June 07, 2019 @10:45AM (#58725036)
    Translation: Google is concerned about Android fork/alternative by Huawei that might challenge Google's data snooping hegemony.

    Personally, between Communist Party in a different country and international Google, I don't know that one choice is necessarily worse than another.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Google is fucked. Huawei number one phone and os company within 3 years

      • by Pieroxy ( 222434 )

        If they really ban Huawei from US tech, they won't get access to memory, CPU, SD Cards and Wifi. I fail to see how Huaweii can get anything sold outside of China with this type of ban.

        Of course, this whole thing is a ploy by Trump to get the upper hand in future negociations, so there's that.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by e3m4n ( 947977 ) on Friday June 07, 2019 @11:05AM (#58725170)

        yes I blacklist every /8 that is registered to RIPE, APNIC, AFRONIC, and LACNIC for my switches running voip. None of my customers are going to need to register from there and trunking is always done on ip-trust not dynamic registrations. Simply by banning all those /8 I think my Fail2Ban alerts are maybe 1 or two an hour from all boxes combined. Without those blocks it was several hundred an hour even with the recidive filter enabled.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 07, 2019 @11:20AM (#58725238)

      Facebook just blocked Huawei from pre-installing Facebook on their phones.

      No Facebook spyware.
      No Google Play Services spyware.

      Lovely! Best phone ever.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • I am a bit skeptical about Huawei phones coming with an unlocked boot loader. Of course I would like it if it happens. But if it does there is already LineageOS, the successor of CyanogenMod. It is essentially what you ask for.

        In terms of licensing, anything seems possible depending on how much the trade war between the US and China escalates. In an extreme scenario, we could get massive embargos both ways and China starting to ignore copyright openly.

      • by Merk42 ( 1906718 )

        1) Select between MacOS, Android and HuaweiOS when buying a phone.

        There are so many things wrong with this statement.
        MacOS? macOS isn't for phones, that's iOS.
        Also, that's Apple's OS, which as of right now, they're free to limit to their own hardware.

      • What we get is:

        1) Select between MacOS, Android and HuaweiOS when buying a phone.
        2) Having the ease of rooting one of the three and installing a third party image that you like

        No, you won't get that, for the same reason you can't install iOS on an Android phone, and you can't install an image of Android built for phone A to phone B.

        It would be even better if they started using Linux instead of Android

        Android *is* Linux.

        Who knew, 2019 is the year of the Linux Desktop

        Wasn't 2018 the year of the Linux desktop? Or was it 2017? Oh that's right it was 2016. Never mind it was 2015....

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Friday June 07, 2019 @11:27AM (#58725274) Homepage Journal

      The other danger is that the Chinese stop assisting with Android security and instead start exploiting it. Why bother share details of zero day vulnerabilities when only the targets of your spying are vulnerable to them?

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      Gee, I suppose Google's reluctance to help the U.S. Military isn't looking like such a smart decision now.

    • Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)

      by lgw ( 121541 )

      Trump: Huawei GFTO
      Google: but, but we're such good lefties, surely we rate an exception!
      Trump: LOLGFY

    • Carriers routinely fork and abandon Android already, this would be no different. But really, who buys a shitty Huawei phone in the first place?

  • So what ? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "Google argues a Huawei-modified version of Android would be more susceptible to being hacked"

    And so what ? These phones are not, and won't, be sold in the US anyway.

  • Pretty much trying to stomp and make noise because they don't want to lose customers/data.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Yes, I'm sure that Google is quite concerned that Chinese users of hardware not made by Google might be at risk from forked Android...

  • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Friday June 07, 2019 @11:07AM (#58725178) Journal
    As someone who likes technology, the more OSes the better, as far as I'm concerned. But this would just be another flavor of Android.
  • Artificial Crisis (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Friday June 07, 2019 @11:21AM (#58725246)

    What I don't like about this whole topic is too many people are insisting on acting like Hauwei can do the impossible and must be suppressed or they will take over everything.

    The impossible thing is that everyone is acting like they can/will/are doing is to trick up their gear to superspy on everyone AND get away with it. Of course it would be easy for them to install malware at the software or even the chip level. Anybody can do that. What is impossible is for them to do is to do so without it being detected. And if it were detected that would be end for them.

    If that happened nobody who wasn't forced or didn't care to would buy their stuff anymore. Probably most of their mobile device customers wouldn't care so they would keep that business but they would probably be sued out of existence for all their infrastructure gear. There is no way they don't know this.

    Huawei has a deserved bad reputation for unfair business practices and IP infringement but that is not what they are being banned for. Instead everyone is yapping about a security issue that doesn't really exist.

    • by Anonymous Coward


      Of course it would be easy for them to install malware at the software or even the chip level. Anybody can do that. What is impossible is for them to do is to do so without it being detected. And if it were detected that would be end for them.

      We ALREADY have unintentional securlty bugs in devices that aren't detected for years. The best example of this in recent memory is heartbleed. You're saying that Hauwei couldn't put intentional, but plausibly deniable bugs in their phones that allowed snoopi

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        "Plausible deniability" is a myth. It is exceptionally hard to put such bugs in an OS when there is a clean reference copy. It is extremely easy to put backdoors in apps. Nobody halfway competent would attack the OS and Huawei is pretty competent at this game.

        • Just add a complicated new feature or major patch with an "accidental" buffer overflow bug. It probably won't get noticed for a long time if it's added by an employee or friend of the repo maintainer, and if it is noticed then they claim it was an accident. Then they do it again using a different contributor.

          • by gweihir ( 88907 )

            There is no "just" about your idea, this is very hard to do. And while analyzing patches is easy, confirming such an analysis is even easier. They will not be _that_ stupid.

            • You act like these bugs are easy to spot. They are not. There's no stupidity involved in missing a subtle bug that can be exploited by a hacker.

              • by gweihir ( 88907 )

                These bugs are relatively easy to spot in an OS. They are almost impossible to spot in an application. That is my whole point.

      • What about all the branch prediction exploits found in Intel CPUs, such as Spectre and Meltdown? How do we know that those weren't intentionally implemented, or undisclosed by state actors? They've been there for what, fifteen years?

    • by oic0 ( 1864384 )
      It's NOT easy to find hardware backdoors and we already are infected with them by our own government. We've also infected the rest of the world with OUR hardware backdoors. The computer you're on now probably has one or more. This is about the US government leveraging the fact that they need our tech and we don't need theirs. Forcing our backdoors on then while avoiding theirs. If we can pull it off, it's strategically advantageous. Ideally for the world, both countries would be forced to stop the BS.
    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      Everybody? Near as I can tell it is only the alleged U.S. Administration that has their panties in a knot over Huawei. The Orange Man himself said that Huawei could be included in a trade "deal" between the U.S. and China thus giving the lie to the "security" angle (from the view of the Administration, not Google's suddenly discovered "security" threat). The only trade deal will be a wash because Trump's idea of a deal is he wins and you lose. China will never accept that. Sooner or later the Administration

      • by Megol ( 3135005 )

        Well given your presidents grasp of most topics* why assume that him saying that makes the security problem a fake one? Isn't it more likely he just doesn't understand it?

        (* as evident of claims by him directly without a biased selection or "interpretation" that is)

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Of course it would be easy for them to install malware at the software or even the chip level. Anybody can do that. What is impossible is for them to do is to do so without it being detected. And if it were detected that would be end for them.

      That argument is too simple, clear, and true to be accessible for most people. Obvious truth is not something that most people can handle.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Historically this is not the case.

      About 11 years ago, Westinghouse, the last real American contender in the nuclear power space, sold their IP to China to build their new reactor, the AP1000. It was sold to several state-owned power entities. They did this with the idea that China would only build Chinese AP1000s, and Westinghouse would have the rest of the world. Unfortunately, China turned out to the be the only place that had an appetite for nuclear power, hurting Westinghouse. Now the rest of the wo

      • by Pieroxy ( 222434 )

        This country allowed Google to form and it never would have under any other country in the world

        What do you mean by that ?

  • Because NSA cannot bug Huawei products and so cannot spy on American allies if their phones run non-US OS. Great risk for national security!

    • Sure they can. The Huawei products with a forked OS will still have zero-day bugs to exploit, and the NSA will keep on finding them and keeping them secret. Nothing changes there.

      Google, on the other hand, would lose control if Huawei forked the OS. Google doesn't want that, so they make up this canard about a security risk.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    The fact that we non-government types are even hearing about this means it's the political equivalent of virtue signalling.
    Google is counting on the tech crowd's disdain for the orange man to put pressure on the politicals to change these policies.
    In google's favor, not necessarily in our favor.

    Also, I like the weasel words and FUD being used here, don't you?

    Google has warned the Trump administration it risks compromising US national security...

    Oh noes! A warning?! That sounds bad!
    Risk?! LAWDY HAVE MERCY! We don't want anything risky now do we?
    NATIONAL SECURITY!?!?! HOLY MOLEY! DEFCON ONE! Cal

  • Is China capable of do a similar ban? Like ban Apple manufacturing and products?
    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Then every nation with low cost of production suggests they get the new production lines.
      Robots are placed and workers go to work in a really friendly nation.
      Lots of nations are ready for anyone to ask about a factory location.
      • Right. But my concern is about the chinese market too. I'm not sure about the Apple revenue in China. But just wondering if China try to ban any company (maybe an car maker) that relies a bunch on their production AND market.
  • Overbearing to ban mobile devices. Folks in sensitive positions can chose a different device but average consumer is a low threat, plus offers a chance to see if Huawei behaves or not. Infrastructure harder to replace and riskier for wider spread harm. Oddly I would prefer Huawei competition on mobile devices using standard OS options like Android and open bootload.

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