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Operating Systems United Kingdom Windows

76% of UK's National Health Service PCs Not on Windows 10 Despite Looming Deadline (zdnet.com) 150

With less than half a year to go before support ends for Windows 7, about three-quarters of computers in the UK's National Health Service (NHS) are still running the OS. From a report: Just over one million computers in the NHS are still using Windows 7, according to a written answer from the Department of Health and Social Care. Having so many machines still running Windows 7 is a problem, according to Jo Platt MP, shadow cabinet office minister, as the end of extended support in January 2020 will mean no more fixes and patches without a costly custom-support deal. "With less than six months before Windows 7 support expires, it is deeply concerning that over a million NHS computers, over three quarters of the total NHS IT estate, are still using this operating system," she says.
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76% of UK's National Health Service PCs Not on Windows 10 Despite Looming Deadline

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  • I came running hoping that 76% of PCs were running linux :P

    Yeap, not the year of linux desktop yet.

    • by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @06:10PM (#59008754) Homepage

      Maybe Linux is the desired upgrade path from Win7.

      It is for me - I'm working at eliminating the need for Windows and Office in my company. Linux will be one part and Mac OSX will be the other.

      • All my 3 PCs (2 personal and 1 from the company) are running linux now.

        And I was a win7 user. Wasn't perfect, but I could use. Win10 was enough for me.

        The penguin saved me. :)

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          I am still on Win7, but once I have to move, that Windows 10 malware will be used for nothing except gaming.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Windows 10 and its telemetry cannot be trusted to protect private patient information. Linux really is the best option here.

    • Iâ(TM)m loving MacOS at my business and at home. However I realize that there are many, many legacy business apps that are Windows only. So when a friend or associate ask me about switching I say move cautiously.
  • by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @06:08PM (#59008740) Homepage

    A lot of people consider Win7 to be superior to Win10 for a lot of reasons. Security and stability being two at the top of the list.

    How about continuing support on WIn7 until you have an effective approach for handling the concerns of institutional users as well as regular people who need Windows but are unwilling to take the full plunge into the Microsoft ecosystem.

    • How about continuing support on WIn7

      Free support ends in 6 months, but paid support will be around for 3 years.

      • > Free support ends in 6 months, but paid support will be around for 3 years.

        They'll pay it and we'll see the same story in three years. NHS will be off Win7 before /. CSS works right on mobile.

    • Some of our customers are still using Windows XP with no problems. There is plenty of concern about safety: Hardware and software firewalls. Virus checking. Education of employees.

      Microsoft makes more money if it can convince people they shouldn't run old versions.

      Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made. [networkworld.com] [networkworld.com] "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC."

      Links to articles that show Microsoft's very poor management. [slashdot.org] One link shows th
      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Good luck finding reliable hardware that actually works with Windows XP. Since no modern browser supports XP either you had better hope none of your staff ever need to browse the internet.

        7 is the oldest version that you can still buy hardware for and run modern software on.

    • by blahplusplus ( 757119 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @08:21PM (#59009414)

      A lot of people consider Win7 to be superior to Win10 for a lot of reasons. Security and stability being two at the top of the list.

      You and many other people don't get what has been going on for 20 years. Microsoft's and the videogame industries wet dream since the beginning was to get rid of software ownership and take control of PC's. For those of us who remember palldium

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      In the 90's when rpg games were getting expensive CEO's and devs cooked up a plan to con the public out of software ownership by rebadging RPG's they had in development as mmo's to get the public to pay for the same role playing that they've partially stolen and trapped on their computers in their office and to undermine game ownership.

      Once the public took the bait with early games like Ultima online, Everquest, Guild wars and world of warcraft, this lead to steam in 2004 where Valve stole half-life 2 by infecting it with a patch that tied it to computers inside his offices, from that point on steam would grow into a monster as internet penetration expanded to the general publics of the world and most of the public being idiots and comptuer illiterate, this allowed game companies to steal what wasn't nailed down because their customers couldn't reach them.

      Then mobile smartphones were released and wireless was fast enough to do server locked mobile apps that had gacha/gambling mechanics and very quickly mobile game profits outstripped the profits of both console and the PC market combined.

      Since android and smartphones are entirely locked down platforms with no software ownership and everything being locked to servers inside corporae offices. Everyone took notice of the super profits being made and now they are coming to lock down the PC with windows 10. This is just going to get worse, and they have the big plan to basically have an extended internet file system with license servers where your software can be disabled or withdrawn remotely via patches/updates, we've seen this with UWP games with huge layers of drm and virtual machines aka they can crack a game then an update comes and the crack stops working because drm is built into the OS. They are merely killing off what started in the late 90's with PC games and applying that to software more generally.

      They are working on encrypted computing where files are completley obscured from the end user they want the PC of the future to go the android route. To see where they want the future of PC go load up nox http://www.bignox.com/ [bignox.com] and download a few apps and notice they are streamed/bicycle chained to servers, aka critical code is contained on servers in corporate offices while you run a local "dumb client" only.

      • by bn-7bc ( 909819 )

        You and many other people don't get what has been going on for 20 years. Microsoft's and the videogame industries wet dream since the beginning was to get rid of software ownership and take control of PC's. For those of us who remember palldium

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        In the 90's when rpg games were getting expensive CEO's and devs cooked up a plan to con the public out of software ownership by rebadging RPG's they had in development as mmo's to get the public to pay for the same role playing that they've partially stolen and trapped on their computers in their office and to undermine game ownership.

        Once the public took the bait with early games like Ultima online, Everquest, Guild wars and world of warcraft, this lead to steam in 2004 where Valve stole half-life 2 by infecting it with a patch that tied it to computers inside his offices, from that point on steam would grow into a monster as internet penetration expanded to the general publics of the world and most of the public being idiots and comptuer illiterate, this allowed game companies to steal what wasn't nailed down because their customers couldn't reach them.

        Then mobile smartphones were released and wireless was fast enough to do server locked mobile apps that had gacha/gambling mechanics and very quickly mobile game profits outstripped the profits of both console and the PC market combined.

        Since android and smartphones are entirely locked down platforms with no software ownership and everything being locked to servers inside corporae offices. Everyone took notice of the super profits being made and now they are coming to lock down the PC with windows 10. This is just going to get worse, and they have the big plan to basically have an extended internet file system with license servers where your software can be disabled or withdrawn remotely via patches/updates, we've seen this with UWP games with huge layers of drm and virtual machines aka they can crack a game then an update comes and the crack stops working because drm is built into the OS. They are merely killing off what started in the late 90's with PC games and applying that to software more generally.

        They are working on encrypted computing where files are completley obscured from the end user they want the PC of the future to go the android route. To see where they want the future of PC go load up nox http://www.bignox.com/ [bignox.com] and download a few apps and notice they are streamed/bicycle chained to servers, aka critical code is contained on servers in corporate offices while you run a local "dumb client" only.

        Can we retire this owning software meme plz, we nwver owned any software, we where granted (depending on UELA) a singel use (either singel computer or singel user) loften non transferable icense to use the software, yhe only thing thet thanged is the term of the licenses validity, at fist it wass for ever, then it was untill te activation servers shut down (at some point you will ned to reinstall the os etc) , with saas it is until you stop paying the sub. Well at lest that is what sems different to me, if

        • Can we retire this owning software meme plz, we nwver owned any software, we where granted (depending on UELA) a singel use (either singel computer or singel user) loften non transferable icense to use the software, yhe only thing thet thanged is the term of the licenses validity, at fist it wass for ever, then it was untill te activation servers shut down (at some point you will ned to reinstall the os etc) , with saas it is until you stop paying the sub. Well at lest that is what sems different to me, if i'm missing something (I probably am) please tell me

          We do you, since you're ignorant. IP is a public monopoly, aka we grant monopoly rights to companies to produce software, but don't let facts hit you on your way out. The whole deal was, companies get a publically granted monopoly (copyright/patent/ip) in return for shit going public domain and into libraries. Since games are culture they've long since broken the deal.

          You don't seem to have any political awareness or education what so ever.

      • by rebadging RPG's they had in development as mmo's to get the public to pay for the same role playing that they've partially stolen and trapped on their computers in their office and to undermine game ownership.

        If you look at an MMO like the original World of Warcraft (before they ran it into the ground), the entire game design philosophy drives community interaction and group effort. The idea that it's only superficially different from a traditional RPG is blatantly false to anyone who has put any signi

    • by antdude ( 79039 )

      Like XP SP3, 2K SP4, etc.

    • by edis ( 266347 )

      Windows 7 is a business grade OS.
      Windows 8, 8.1, 10 are not, this dominance in computing is well screwed now.

    • How is Win 7 superior in regards to security? You mean privacy concerns?
  • In other words (Score:5, Insightful)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @06:13PM (#59008770)

    They're running an OS which doesn't change on them every few days, where things don't get rearranged or hidden with every "update", and isn't a leaking sieve of telemetry or being watched over your shoulder with every twitch of the mouse.

    Sounds like the NHS is doing something right.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Presumably they would be using the Enterprise edition, which gets updated very slowly and lets you completely disable all the telemetry. Most of the consumer crap is disabled too, i.e. no Candy Crush.

      The real issue is going to be hardware. Their Windows 7 era PCs and expensive medical hardware will be incompatible with Windows 10. No drivers, and no budget to replace it all.

      • 76% of the machines is too many for all of them to be medical devices. That number is big enough that it has to include the PCs sitting on desks.

  • Concern? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @06:15PM (#59008782)
    "With less than six months before Windows 7 support expires, it is deeply concerning that over a million NHS computers, over three quarters of the total NHS IT estate, are still using this operating system," she says.

    Oh, if she's concerned about that, just wait until the first W10 update mangling they get.

    The biggest thing with W7 is that it actually works well.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Windows 10 is actually better at handling broken updates.

      With Windows 7 all the IT department could do is hold the update back themselves until they are satisfied with their own test. With Windows 10 Enterprise they have a vast army of beta testers doing most of the work for them, i.e. consumers and businesses running the non-Enterprise versions.

      Microsoft tests the updates on everyone else, and then offers up the security related ones for Enterprise users. Feature updates get delayed much longer, at least s

      • Windows 10 is actually better at handling broken updates.

        Broken updates do not equal broken systems. Windows 10 updates have been bricking some software, necessitating scorched earth uninstalling, then deleting and reinstalling/renaming audio drivers, then reinstalling the software again.

        Somewhere, somehow, the windows 10 update process has decided that functional drivers must have their names changed. It picks the first driver found, then renames every single driver that name, just serialized by one. And for 20 some drivers, it gets to be a pain. Add to that

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @06:17PM (#59008792)

    I mean, nobody in their right mind could call Windows a "professional" tool

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Windows isn't a hobbyist OS; it's a gaming OS.

  • Technical Debt (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sjames ( 1099 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @06:21PM (#59008810) Homepage Journal

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Not only does technical debt have to be paid with interest, there's usually a late fee.

  • Who's complaining? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bobbied ( 2522392 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @06:31PM (#59008860)

    I have a windows 7 machine and I'm NOT going to upgrade it anytime soon... It's the ONLY way I can run Windows Media Server to record and play back protected content recorded from my Cable Card based tuner. The only other options are a lot more expensive...

    I suppose, once support goes completely away.. I'll start to think about other options, but I figure I'll run Windows 7 for another couple of years w/o updates by changing the guide data provider. It's not like I use it for browsing the web, all it does is run WMS, nothing else.

    Given this one machine represents about 1/4th of my total Windows boxes, I cannot throw rocks at NHS for their issue. Also, I don't suppose it's an "emergency" for NHS to fix this right now. Nothing will stop working the day after windows 7 is no longer supported, you just don't get updates and patches to keep things secure. So they have a bit more time than it seems.

    • by kenh ( 9056 )

      you just don't get updates and patches to keep things secure.

      Why would NHS be worried about keeping the health records of every UK citizen secure?

      You don't work in IT, do you? Only someone outside of IT could dismiss security concerns so blithely...

      • you just don't get updates and patches to keep things secure.

        Why would NHS be worried about keeping the health records of every UK citizen secure?

        You don't work in IT, do you? Only someone outside of IT could dismiss security concerns so blithely...

        Your reading comprehension skills are a bit lacking..

        I don't disagree with you. I'm simply saying that the windows 7 boxes will still work the morning after support is officially over, nothing really changes over night. Unless some huge security risk is discovered, these boxes will slowly drift out of date and into more and more of a security risk over time as the patches are not kept up to date. This means that the loss of support deadline, really is kind of a soft one, that the NHS likely has more tim

  • by Mark of the North ( 19760 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @06:33PM (#59008878)

    This is par for the course in the public sector. There will be no resources for any work unless something is on fire or it is a pet project of a very high-ranking employee.

    I did a stint as the director of technology for a school division as Windows XP was nearing EOL. There simply weren't enough resources (ie. people) to upgrade every workstation to Windows 7. And I ran a really tight ship. We could remotely image workstations thanks to FOG and could administer every workstation remotely. Even so, we were so busy putting out fires that we only got about 75% done by the April deadline. We did manage to finish up over the following summer break, but even that was a struggle.

  • It's so easy to upgrade, and it was even free to upgrade for a long time. They're opening themselves up to a breach and then lawsuits. Hire some IT people ffs.
    • Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @08:53PM (#59009510)

      It's so easy to upgrade, and it was even free to upgrade for a long time.

      We're talking about the NHS. Many of those machines could well be textbook examples of Windows PCs connected to very expensive, very specialised equipment that might or might not work post-upgrade. And if it doesn't, well, actual people might actually die as a result. An organisation-wide upgrade isn't going to be easy. Assuming it goes ahead at all, it could be literally the most challenging Windows 10 upgrade ever performed anywhere.

      Also, the upgrade wasn't free for enterprises.

      • The USA has the same issue in research facilities and doctor's offices. The NHS is hardly unique in this saense.

        • by kenh ( 9056 )

          In the USA we don't have one group responsible for every desktop/laptop in every doctor's office, hospital, medical clinic, etc.

          NHS actually is *unique* in this sense.

          • by Anonymous Coward

            In the USA we don't have one group responsible for every desktop/laptop in every doctor's office, hospital, medical clinic, etc.

            NHS actually is *unique* in this sense.

            IT in the NHS is largely devolved to individual trusts so there isn't really a single organisation to handle this.

      • by kenh ( 9056 )

        It's so easy to upgrade, and it was even free to upgrade for a long time.

        It's free for them to upgrade now - they are paying Software Assurance fees annually that includes licenses to run the latest version of Windows and Office. They have been paying these fees every year, and they could have upgraded at ZERO incremental cost over what they already pay - they choose not to.

        • by jezwel ( 2451108 )

          It's free for them to upgrade now - they are paying Software Assurance fees annually that includes licenses to run the latest version of Windows and Office. They have been paying these fees every year, and they could have upgraded at ZERO incremental cost over what they already pay - they choose not to.

          The cost of software assurance pails in comparison to the cost of minimising/eliminating disruption to critical systems. I'm in a non-health related organisation and testing our applications for compatibility with our Win10 image is a mammoth effort, let alone fixing the issues that come from having a locked down environment. Don't forget all the change management - both process and organisational - that will need to occur as well.

          I cannot imagine the enormity of migrating an entire nations health system t

      • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

        The vast majority of those machines are not connected to specialised equipment... Most of them are just desktop workstations used for generic office tasks. But upgrading them still has a significant cost and the NHS has a very tight budget.

    • by kenh ( 9056 )

      It's so easy to upgrade, and it was even free to upgrade for a long time.

      They are paying annual license fees, the upgrade was, and still is, free - license fees aren't the problem, it's likely the applications that run on the machines or the machines themselves, many were likely delivered to NHS running WinXP and simply aren't up to the task of supporting Windows 10.

      You imagine NHS has sufficient budget to pay for the IT workforce needed to upgrade 3/4 million desktops? I suspect the NHS budget is a bit tighter than that.

  • Having so many machines still running Windows 7 is a problem, according to Jo Platt MP, shadow cabinet office minister, as the end of extended support in January 2020 will mean no more fixes and patches without a costly custom-support deal

    They'll pay. And pay.

  • The Problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by StormReaver ( 59959 ) on Monday July 29, 2019 @07:12PM (#59009090)

    "Having so many machines still running Windows...is a problem...."

    There, fixed that for him.

  • by kenh ( 9056 )

    They've had literally years of warning/notice that Windows 7 was going to be EOL this year, why couldn't they upgrade their infrastructure?

    It's hard? (They had years.)

    It's expensive? (No, they pay an annual license fee for each desktop that gives them access to current/latest software - Software Assurance - license-wise it costs nothing, replacing their aging desktops/laptops that can't support Windows 10 will get expensive)

    They don't want to? (Probably, it would have been a multi-year effort, and the NHS h

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • That will be the understaffed, underfunded NHS who rightly care more about patients than updating windows

    They have locked down all the PC's due to a ransomware attack so they are pretty well protected now, they run on their own very protected network, so they don't really have as much worry as a regular users machine

  • The NHS has had clear sight of the support issue for years (when they bought the Win7 licences!) and should have avoided the issue. Just like their other IT disasters though, they will end up paying consultants billions to sort out the problem. The backroom staff in the NHS really do need to sort their crap out but the problem is they're paid peanuts without any of the motivation that frontline staff have.

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