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Earth

Jakarta Has Sunk By Up To 4 Meters, Forcing Indonesia To Build a New Capital (arstechnica.com) 90

Posted by BeauHD from the going-under dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Yesterday, Indonesian President Joko Widodo announced a plan to move the country's capital from Jakarta to a new location in Borneo. The reason? Jakarta is bursting at the seams -- and sinking. Different sections of the city -- home to 10 million people within an urban area of 30 million -- are subsiding at different rates, but most fall in the range of 3 to 10 centimeters every year. Over the years, that has added up to as much as four meters of surface elevation change. This has wreaked havoc on building foundations and other infrastructure. And as Jakarta sits on the coast, where a number of small rivers meet the sea, the flooding hazard is also real. (The fact that sea level is rising doesn't help.) That includes high-tide seawater flooding but also stormwater flooding as rain captured by the sprawling city's pavement struggles to drain seaward.

Indonesia's plan is to start a new capital city in an undeveloped portion of the East Kalimantan province of Borneo. Reuters reports that President Widodo's goal is to begin relocating the 1.5 million civil servants working in Jakarta in 2024 -- an endeavor that would cost around US$33 billion overall.
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Jakarta Has Sunk By Up To 4 Meters, Forcing Indonesia To Build a New Capital More

Jakarta Has Sunk By Up To 4 Meters, Forcing Indonesia To Build a New Capital

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  • Pundits joked about it, but maybe Rep. Hank Johnson is on to something. [snopes.com]

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Hank Johnson was onto three martini lunches. He almost tipped over in his chair while he was talking.

  • Not about climate change (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bluegutang ( 2814641 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @04:04PM (#59130946)

    Climate change is causing the sea to rise at about 3 mm per year [wikipedia.org]. According to this article, the land in Jakarta is subsiding by 3 to 10 cm every year. That's between 10 and 33 times as much as the sea level rise.

    So despite the implication you're expected to get from the article, this problem is essentially unrelated to carbon emissions in Indonesia or elsewhere.

    Jakarta will need to figure out how to deal with the problem - even if they move the political capital, 30 million people won't pick up and go, and Jakarta will remain the country's economic capital. They will probably need to put a halt to groundwater extraction in the Jakarta area, but whatever they do or don't do to limit carbon emissions is essentially irrelevant to the problem.

    • Re:Not about climate change (Score:5, Informative)

      by pr0fessor ( 1940368 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @04:10PM (#59130972)

      I think I watched a documentary on this or maybe another place with the same issue poor water management causing the sink holes.
       

    • Climate change is causing the sea to rise at about 3 mm per year [wikipedia.org]. According to this article, the land in Jakarta is subsiding by 3 to 10 cm every year. That's between 10 and 33 times as much as the sea level rise.

      So despite the implication you're expected to get from the article, this problem is essentially unrelated to carbon emissions in Indonesia or elsewhere.

      Jakarta will need to figure out how to deal with the problem - even if they move the political capital, 30 million people won't pick up and go, and Jakarta will remain the country's economic capital. They will probably need to put a halt to groundwater extraction in the Jakarta area, but whatever they do or don't do to limit carbon emissions is essentially irrelevant to the problem.

      Well, nobody wants 20-30 Million poor people as neighbors.

      I TL;DR'd the article, I'm guessing the land subsiding is due to pumping out all the groundwater.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by lazarus ( 2879 )

      TFA says the following about the cause:

      Why the instability? Jakarta is a case of humans doing the wrong things in just the right place. River sediments deposited at the coast in places like this are naturally somewhat compressible. (It’s possible the bedrock beneath is moving a little bit and contributing, as well.) The actual weight of all the buildings and other construction at the surface is acting to compact the sediment a little, not unlike tamping down loose sand or soil in your yard. The bigges

      • "I'm not sure how you got a climate change implication from the article since it says nothing about it."

        Because whoever wrote the summary couldn't help themselves and had to throw in something about the sea levels rising. Even if sea levels are rising, it's nothing compared to the amount of sinking going on in Jakarta.

    • I find it odd that nowhere does it mention that Indonesia suffers a ton of problems due to tectonic plate movement, which is probably the main contributor to the sinking.

      • Nothing odd about it, that has nothing to do with the problem, that's why they didn't mention it. Why did you mention it?

      • The comparable land (river deltas etc) east and west of Jakarta which aren't subject to as much groundwater extraction are not showing the same degree of subsidence at all, pretty much ruling out larger scale geological influence.

        It may astonish you, but people do actually look at these things. It may astonish you more, but with such a large population at risk, and an undoubtedly difficult geological setting, they have quite good earthquake monitoring, and ground movement monitoring, for exactly the same r

    • It's related to climate chance in that there's a decrease in precipitation (ala- it raise less). Water is pulled out of the ground consumption. As the ground looses moisture, it compacts... thereby causing the City to sink...
      Global warming is a piece of the problem... So is just too many people..
      • Rainfall is trending upward [ametsoc.org] for Jakarta. It's getting wetter, not drier.
        • Of your sited study; Table 34.1. ANTHROPOGENIC INFLUENCE; Jakarta is in the "NOT FOUND OR UNCERTAIN" column. Reading the notes:
          **** The study of Jakarta rainfall event of 2014 found a statistically significant increase in the probability of such rains over the last 115 years, though the study did not establish a cause.

          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 )
            So a statistically significant increase in rains, and it's not found/uncertain it's from man-made climate change. Kind of runs counter to your claim of a decrease in precipitation because of climate change (you're wrong on both counts - it's not decreasing, and there is no linkage to man-cause climate change).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
          Not all rain ends up as ground water. This is where the concept of streams and rivers comes in. Most of the rain runs off before it can be absorbed.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hey! ( 33014 )

      The article doesn't mention climate change, only in passing that sea level rise doesn't help.

      If it *were* to mention climate change, it might mention that under the current emissions practices, and assuming continued growth, the rate of sea level rise will increase to almost twice the rate at which Jakarta is sinking by the end of this century, which means by mid century many coastal cities will be facing a similar situation.

      I personally don't think that will happen, because I think that countries will move

    • Neither the article nor the summary say anything about carbon emissions being a factor here. There's an off-hand comment about sea levels rising not helping, but a) it's true that this will make the problem worse and b) it does not imply that's a significant factor.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      They have come up with a way to deal with the problem. Promise a sea wall they will never build and shift the capital, basically in reality do nothing. You can be sure one thing will most definitely occur, insider will get to sell the sinking properties to the government and buy land at the site for the new capital at really low prices and for the poor, learn to fucking swim.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by trawg ( 308495 )

      So despite the implication you're expected to get from the article, this problem is essentially unrelated to carbon emissions in Indonesia or elsewhere.

      I read both articles and the summary and the word 'climate' is not mentioned until your post

      (I didn't watch the CNN video because who has time for video)

    • There is literally nothing about climate change in the article save the "that the waters are rising ain't helping either". The sinking of Jakarta has nothing to do with the climate change, the only thing climate change does is not helping, but that's basically it.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by kyjo ( 1947414 )

      So despite the implication you're expected to get from the article, ...

      I didn't get any implication about climate change or carbon emissions from the article. You're strawmanning hard.

  • they should call it New Jakarta, thats what happens in all the movies when a city needs to relocate.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Etcetera ( 14711 )

      they should call it New Jakarta, thats what happens in all the movies when a city needs to relocate.

      Came here to post this. New Jakarta or Neo Jakarta... Pick one.

    • You mean like New London [wikipedia.org], New Berlin [wikipedia.org], New Paris [wikipedia.org]. and New Amsterdam [wikipedia.org] (the 1624 Dutch colony that became much later... drumroll, please! ...New York City).

    • They are not relocating "the city", they are relocating the political capital to new city, most of Jakarta will stay.
      Jakarta has specific cultural and historic meaning that would not make sense to simply replicate for new city.
      (in reference to historic Indo-Malay regional culture and celebrating liberation victory vs Dutch army)

      Kartanegara has been suggested in reference to historic kingdom of region of Kalimantan/Borneo.
      Mandalanusa is another example invoking center/nexus of Indonesia (Nusantara = Indonesi

      • I do wonder how the transfer will be handled. Will government employees be offered courses in the local language to smoothe integration?
        Self-consciousness de-Javanising the nature of central government was major part of relocating away from Java, so that would be consistent.
        I also wonder if any other structural reformations of government is planned parallel to this?

    • Brasilia called - they want your advice on renaming.

      Abuja is holding on the other line.

      Yamoussoukro and Naypyidaw want you to call them back when you've finished spouting whatever it is you're spouting.

      Saint Petersburg and Moscow are both jamming the same line, repeatedly.

      Islamabad have sent a military delegation to SWAT your mother's cellar and Dodomo and Almaty are still works in progress and are too busy to waste time on people who think movies are in the least bit similar to real life.

  • Over the years, that has added up to as much as four meters of surface elevation change.

    Does Global warming and the "rise in sea levels" over the years have anything to do with this?

    A few months ago, it was reported that folks living on the Marshall Islands endured similar fate. [upsbatterycenter.com]

  • Brazil Did It! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Thelasko ( 1196535 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @04:18PM (#59131008) Journal
    Brazil built a new capital in a similar timeline. [wikipedia.org]
  • I thought Borneo was on fire. Maybe the rising sea levels will put it out

    • I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started, all I had was swamp! Other kings said I was daft to build a capitol on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em! It sank into the swamp, so I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. I built a third one. It burned down, fell over, and then it sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up! And that's what you're going to get, lad--the strongest capitol on these islands!

  • Well played (Score:3)

    by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @04:21PM (#59131022)
    Now they can suck the water dry in Borneo and sink that too. Well played.

  • Pumping water out of aquifers (Score:5, Informative)

    by kbahey ( 102895 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @04:30PM (#59131066) Homepage

    Many residents resort to pumping water out of the aquifer [bbc.com], causing the city to sink more, among other reasons. See link for details (from 2018, before the capital move was announced).

  • Sadly the move from Java to remote Borneo (3rd largest island in world & 90% in Indonesian hands) will just accelerate the rain-forest destruction there. Yet again, only one species will benefit (temporarily) from this decision.
    Earth = Prognosis Negative
    *sad*

    • The prognosis for Earth is pretty stable. Don't worry, the planet will survive us, along with the life on it.

      It might take a while to rebuild, but then, it's not like time is an issue for a planet.

      • Time is something of an issue.

        Long before the Sun turns red giant (with about a 50% probability of expanding to surround the Earth), the rising solar flux will raise the Earth's surface temperature to the point that the water content of the atmosphere will produce a runaway greenhouse. The Sun - like other G-dwarf main sequence stars - increases it's flux at about 5% per gigayear. It's nuclear physics - well established. Exactly when the runaway greenhouse will trigger is unclear, but estimates are in the

    • RIP orangutans. :(

  • Maybe stop building unsustainably? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @06:08PM (#59131404) Homepage Journal

    Try actually building a capitol city that is in harmony with the environment, using solar and tidal energy to power salt water distillation for the water supply, ban all cars and trucks that aren't zero emission vehicles, and use bikes and scooters to get around, with a purpose-built transit system that doesn't encourage sprawl, and no parking on streets or in the commercial and governmental core.

    Start there.

    • Try actually building a capitol city that is in harmony with the environment, using solar and tidal energy to power salt water distillation for the water supply, ban all cars and trucks that aren't zero emission vehicles, and use bikes and scooters to get around, with a purpose-built transit system that doesn't encourage sprawl, and no parking on streets or in the commercial and governmental core.

      Start there.

      Sounds like a good plan. Now the only question is will you put your money where your mouth is and do it?

      • I already do. My city is 100% green, where I work is too, and my investments since the 80s have gone into such projects.

        Why do you think investors appeared for all the projects?

        Now, stop making excuses, and start doing. Fossil fuels are over.

    • to power salt water distillation for the water supply

      No one with an understanding of thermodynamics tries to do distillation for turning seawater into potable water. They use reverse osmosis. It uses far less energy than distillation for each cubic metre of potable water output.

      • Look, if I use the term reverse osmosis or link the papers on all the different renewable energy desalination plants, most people don't understand what that means. Basically, you have to pump the water somehow, so you use the cheap energy from your local source - solar, wind, tidal (note: tidal not usually cheaper).

    • blah blah blah

      You sure are good at talking out of your ass telling what prohibitively expense and economically crippling things other countries should do, while sitting at your coal powered computer.

      • blah blah blah

        You sure are good at talking out of your ass telling what prohibitively expense and economically crippling things other countries should do, while sitting at your coal powered computer.

        Um, I live in Seattle, we literally have 100% green energy on campus, some of our buildings actually export power, and even the rest of the city is 100% green energy. When I take transit it's built in this county with green energy, is electric from green electricity, and there ain't no coal, bubs.

        • hahaha, you mean Seattle U because it purchases "carbon offsets"

          that's a scam known to have billions in fraud

          B.S. like Roman Catholic indulgences, makes the weak minded feel good about their sins.

          • Nope. I'm at the big research university that owns all the patents for solar, wind, tidal, and internet.

            Our power comes from our buildings, from contracted wind and solar, and from the very large hydro dam that provides Seattle City Light it's power.

            Thanks for playing. Some of our grad students come from Jakarta.

            • you're funny, that hydro plant and you (and Seattle) are hooked to is part of the national electric grid. 52% of that is energy from burning stuff.

              you are fossil fueled.

              don't know what relevance bringing up Jakarta has, they get 94% their power from burning stuff too

              • No, we own the hydro plant outright. We also own the wind turbines and solar panels outright. We're a net energy exporter, unlike you deniers.

                We also technically own a couple of nuclear fission reactors and a nuclear fusion reactor and a coal plant, but we shut down two of those.

                If it's Clean Energy, it's us.

    • With what money? Sure solar power may be cheap, but that's only compared to generating electricity traditionally. Building solar farms to power desalination plants is a frigging insanely expensive option for a city with a population larger than the country of Austria. That's before you provide power to all those ZEVs, and then purpose build public transport infrastructure.

      How will they pay for it? With homes and dreams? Only the US military gets that kind of funding.

      • With what money? Sure solar power may be cheap, but that's only compared to generating electricity traditionally.

        Try expiring all fossil fuel infrastructure tax incentives, depreciation, and exclusions.

        There, lots of money.

    • Maybe we should go back to living in primitive shelters as well, stop using electricity, get rid of all the airplanes and ships. Stop using phones, stop using batteries, air conditions, stop chopping trees for wood, stop being able to buy products from all parts of the world in shopping malls (effectively make vegan/vegetarian diets impossible, especially in northern parts of the planet - I would like to see you living happily in climate averaging -20 to 10c by eating only locally produced vegetables and fr
  • While they are busy moving the capital, the Dutch will sneak back and take over again.

  • Step one (Score:2, Insightful)

    by raind ( 174356 )
    Birth control....
  • So if all the residents of Jakarta went on a diet, would that help?

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