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Marc Benioff Says Capitalism, As We Know It, Is Dead (cnn.com) 291

Marc Benioff says "capitalism, as we know it, is dead," and it is time for a new form of capitalism that focuses more on societal good. From a report: "That new kind of capitalism that is going to emerge is not the Milton Friedman capitalism, that's just about making money," the billionaire co-CEO of Salesforce and owner of Time Magazine, said at the TechCrunch Disrupt conference in San Francisco Thursday evening. "If your orientation is just about making money, I don't think you're going to hang out very long as a CEO or a founder of a company. You have to be more than that in today's world," Benioff added. Benioff is one of the more outspoken corporate leaders but he is not alone. Others are also trying to prioritize the good of their employees and customers over profit. The Business Roundtable, an influential group of CEOs, said in August that America's top corporations are responsible for improving society by serving all stakeholders ethically, morally and fairly -- and not just for boosting the stock price for shareholders. The group is currently led by JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon. Walmart CEO Doug McMillon will take over as chairman of The Business Roundtable in January and will serve a two-year term.
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Marc Benioff Says Capitalism, As We Know It, Is Dead

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  • You first then! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Train0987 ( 1059246 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:09PM (#59270202)

    Benief's net worth is $6.5 BILLION. There's nothing stopping him from giving it all away or writing a $6.4 billion check to the Treasury today.

    • It is just a fantasy in people's heads.
      Not actual money you can hold or use or give away.
      Its only purpose is to devalue money and hence your salary. :P

      • ... are falsehoods, too.

        It is true that the nominal wealth of a billionaire is not a sum that could be drawn from a bank account tomorrow morning.

        But each single book dollar does have an actual value which is the same as that of a dollar coin. Both contain the same amount of 'fantasy' – or 'reality', for that matter.

      • He can pass around some of that fantasy to other people's heads. Just, you know, give away 99% of that fantasy net worth by transferring the stock to me, for example. That'll be fine, thanks.

    • Re:You first then! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by spun ( 1352 ) <[moc.oohay] [ta] [yranoituloverevol]> on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:26PM (#59270290) Journal

      Instead of reflexively assuming any criticism of capitalism is some sort of argument for socialism, try reading the article and forming an opinion of the criticism found therein. And rather than attacking any assumed argument for socialism with the hoary old "You first!" argument, try using reasoning and logic. Would the action of any single billionaire giving away their money result in socialism? No? Then "You first!" isn't a reasonable argument to apply.

      The exact same argument could (and is) applied (poorly) against taxes. "Oh, so taxes could pay for roads, schools, and armed forces to protect us? You first!" is equally asinine, suitable only to impress already impressionable youngsters. Look out briefly at the real world and realize there is a reason that that argument holds no water with the vast majority of the population.

      • try reading the article and forming an opinion of the criticism found therein

        What criticism? It is a breathy recounting of some things Salesforce has done to ensure equal pay for equal work, some money Benioff has donated, and a couple of Op-eds no doubt accepted on the name of the author rather than the strength of the writing.
        I don't see any criticism at all.
        In fact I see this advice as protectionism. Salesforce built itself up under the 'old' rules and I am sure would like to increase barriers to entry.

      • Like I already commented here .... it seems pretty clear to me this guy is advocating for (thinly veiled) socialist practices in doing business, because first off? We see the background here. Owner of Time Magazine? Time has a very liberal leaning agenda, which has arguably gotten stronger since the print magazine died off and it was reincarnated as a web publication. And then co-CEO of Salesforce? The company that just recently decided to screw over good, paying customers because it had an anti-gun poli

        • by cas2000 ( 148703 )

          it seems pretty clear to me this guy is advocating for (thinly veiled) socialist practices in doing business

          Only an American could think that not being quite as much of a psychopathic cunt to your workers as you could get away is "thinly veiled socialism".

          Your entire nation has been taken hostage by corporations, and you all have Stockholm Syndrome.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Actually it sounds a lot like what Nordic countries already have. They tend to be pretty well of, not all billionaires of course but high wages and a high standard of living. High taxes too, but they get a lot in return.

    • I think the issue there is that giving away $6.4B in a productive way is hard. Writing a check to the treasury is the next best thing to converting it to dollar bills and burning it for heat. Hey, lets spend $340M playing golf (https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/07/10/trumps-golf-trips-could-cost-taxpayers-over-340-million/) or $40+M on security for the secretary of education (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/the-cost-of-betsy-devoss-security-detail-1-million-per-month/2017/04/07/e
    • by Ichijo ( 607641 )

      There's nothing stopping him from giving it all away

      He's working on that. Didn't you read the article? Oh I forgot, this is Slashdot. Here, I'll quote it for you:

      Salesforce (CRM) has spent millions of dollars over the past few years to raise salaries for female employees in order to bridge the pay gap between men and women at the company.

      Benioff also donated $30 million to UC San Francisco earlier this year so the school could set up a new program dedicated to researching the root causes of homelessness --

  • Investor says (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ebonum ( 830686 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:12PM (#59270214)

    You're fired. Effective immediately my guy who is ruthless and who wants to make money will replace you.

    • Re:Investor says (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DCFusor ( 1763438 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @01:30PM (#59270632) Homepage
      Yup, grandma's mutual fund needs to keep her in something better than catfood, and they need income to do that. This drives all behavior, because CEO's are compensated largely in options (because no one sane would pay those salaries in cash) - so they need to make the stock go up each and every quarter, long term be damned (because golden parachute anyway) - or grandma's - or the cop's - pension fund sells it, price goes down, no C suite pay or bonus.
      .

      Until that compensation scheme changes - it's all bullshit. Human nature isn't changed by persuasion very much at all - but behavior is all incentive driven.

  • by Kobun ( 668169 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:17PM (#59270240)
    This seems entirely true for the large corporations that have the resources to influence and buy regulation to cement their position as government-protected.

    But there is a whole country full of small businesses that is out every day working themselves ragged to pay the bills and take as best care of their employees as they can. That's realistically as much social good as can be expected from them.

    This just looks like more crap from the huge entrenched players designed to burden their smaller competitors. The rules never apply to the ones that should be most controlled.
    • If a company can only function by having other parts of society subsidize their worker's wages (AKA paying a sub-livable wage), then that company is a drain on society and should cease operations.

      • by Kobun ( 668169 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:39PM (#59270350)
        And yet you see city after city, town after town, bend over backwards to give Walmart & Amazon tax "incentives" to move in and put the locals out of business.
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        So if I start a lawn service and employ high school students part-time in my neighborhood, giving customers reliable, quality service and those students a modest paycheck they are happy to receive, and the neighborhood is looking better than ever during summer, driveways and sidewalks are cleared of snow and ice during winter, I am a drain on society? You haven't really thought things through, have you?
        • If only your strawman was relevant to the conversation.

          Let's make it relevant:

          So if I start a lawn service and employ high school students part-time in my neighborhood, but require you to subsidize their pay via social services, food stamps, and a host of other benefits thanks to the low wages and poor hours I force my employees to have, I am a drain on society?

          There's a reason every WalMart has employees that help their employees apply for government aid.

    • "But there is a whole country full of small businesses that is out every day working themselves ragged to pay the bills and take as best care of their employees as they can."

      Small businesses get tons of breaks too. I don't know of any small business owner who doesn't have their company own their houses and cars so they can deduct those expenses from their profits, and funnel all personal expenses through the company as well. I'm not saying they have it as easy as the big guys who just hand bags of cash to C

      • by Kobun ( 668169 )
        The difference is that small businesses that are breaking the rules can be reasonably expected to be punished.

        To support this, I can say that I've personally audited around a hundred businesses (our clients). None of them had anything like this going on. I don't think the misbehavior that you describe is as prevalent as you appear to think it is.

        Even so, what are you arguing for here? More Walmart scale businesses that can push all of their responsibilities off on the government / society?
      • True!

        I've worked in SMB IT consulting for years and nearly all of them are not much more than cash machines for the owners and their families. I mostly get it when it's a *really* small business, like fewer than 10 people who work there.

        But I've worked with some that were larger and appeared on the outside to be kind of a normal firm. At one, they were facing a serious set of risks due to badly aging infrastructure and kept delaying the project. The accountant confided in me that they had some kind of bu

    • I don't think you're considering the complexity of the system.

      Why do small businesses struggle? For lots of reasons, but one in particular is not having enough customers. Not a lot of small businesses struggle because they have too many.

      To get more customers (assuming you have something they want) it helps a lot if more people have more money to spend. And that's partly what this addresses. If the megacorps put more money into their employees' pockets, those employees have more to spend everywhere, includin

      • by Kobun ( 668169 )
        I think we're mostly in agreement, I'm approaching this from a cynical worldview.

        Your last line is the crux for me - "It doesn't seem to me that this is a bad thing, if it's actually something that happens rather than the bullshit marketing and PR stunt that it most likely is. Less money in corporate coffers and more circulating in the economy is better for pretty much everyone that's not a megacorporation owner or multi-million-dollar stock investor."

        I think if it worked as stated it would be great
        • You don't seem to have read the summary. This is a voluntary thing that a bunch of companies are doing. If their smaller competitors don't want to do the same, they're not obligated to.

          What do you see as the mechanism that would harm smaller companies if larger ones voluntarily made less money?

    • if it's done right it lifts the social burdens from small business. Take healthcare. A mega corp has a _huge_ advantage. I've known folk literally told by their boss at a small business that if they signed up for health insurance with their health problems they'd be fired on the spot. There's an entire world of skilled employees completely inaccessible to small business because of America's fucked up method of paying for healthcare.

      The same is true for a living wage. Yeah, a $15/hr wage sounds like suic
  • False dichotomy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by grasshoppa ( 657393 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:18PM (#59270242) Homepage

    Societal good and capitalism are not mutually exclusive goals. I don't know why people believe that.

    I would say that, as a company, long term sustainability almost requires you take care of your environment ( your employees, your town, your country ).

    No need to invent a new term for it.

    • by fred6666 ( 4718031 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:22PM (#59270266)

      As long as polluting the environment is free, then capitalist corporations will have no incentive in protecting the environment.
      That's how we emit so much CO2.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ebh ( 116526 )

      For most companies, "long term sustainability" means looking *two* quarters ahead.

    • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

      If you have a corporation that is lead by the owner then that'll work the way you imply.

      But if you hire someone to lead your corporation and that someone gets a bonus based on the net income of a given timeframe, this person WILL maximize net income for the TIMEFRAME and to hell with everything that comes after.

      Put a clause into the contract that states if a decision of the CEO leads to problems down the line, he will be held financially responsible for up to ten years, THEN I see some chance of your utopia

      • he will be held financially responsible for up to ten years,

        NOBODY is going to agree to terms that hold them responsible for the decisions made AFTER they leave. The best you could do is to have bonuses for X years in the future. Maybe giving shares of stocks as a current bonus, but those shares can not be sold/transferred for X years so that somebody won't screw over future years.

    • Re:False dichotomy (Score:5, Insightful)

      by GameboyRMH ( 1153867 ) <gameboyrmh AT gmail DOT com> on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:39PM (#59270346) Journal

      Societal good and capitalism are not mutually exclusive goals. I don't know why people believe that.

      Probably due to all the implementations of "capitalism" they've witnessed so far.

      I agree that a heavily regulated and more democratic form of capitalism could work much better and for the societal good, but it seems that capitalism in general (or at least anything we could squint really hard at and define as a form of capitalism) has an expiry date set by advances in automation and post-scarcity effects, and it looks like we're going to run into it in the next couple of decades.

    • by Strill ( 6019874 )

      Stock dividends fly in the face of long-term sustainability. Companies maximize short-term profits over long-term sustainability every time. Just look at Blizzard, throwing away every cent of their goodwill turning their Diablo series into a trash Chinese microtransaction-infested mobile game. It hurts their long-term profits, but in the short-term, it's very profitable.

    • Re:False dichotomy (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Misagon ( 1135 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @02:04PM (#59270814)

      Capitalism needs competent enforcement of regulations and a functioning legal system to work.
      Otherwise, people at corporations with a lot of power will abuse that power ... to enrich themselves in the short term at the expense of others.
      The same goes for the opposite: a communist state (and for everything between the two): people with power must be prevented from abusing their power.

      It is not the idea of capitalism in itself, but the ultra-liberal belief that a capitalist society could adjust itself for the common good that bullshit. It has its origin in misinterpreting a macroeconomic model of the real world as being the absolute truth. Models can be useful for figuring out details of the world, but the world is never as simple as a model.

      Be very wary when someone in power says they want to remove regulation. Sometimes a regulatory framework can be too restrictive and needs to be reformed, but then the devil is (like always) in the details: the framework may need to be redone right, not done away with.

      Transparency, a healthy press corps and whistleblowers are essential for keeping our freedoms, to report about the people with power and make everyone know when they have done wrong so that evil deeds can't be done without repercussions, and to inspect and report when systems are not working, so that they can be fixed.

    • by Kohath ( 38547 )

      I would say that, as a company, long term sustainability almost requires you take care of your environment ( your employees, your town, your country ).

      No need to invent a new term for it.

      As business leaders have done all along, throughout history.

  • by magarity ( 164372 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:18PM (#59270244)

    Any econ major could have told him that if shareholders and customers assign value to "societal good" then companies will do that.

  • So, people are supposed to give him money, and he should spend it however he likes?

    How about working to create value for the owners? You know, the guys who own stock in the company. The guys who gave the company money in order to get wealthier themselves....

    Note that I'm not talking about manipulating the stock price. I'm talking about making stuff people want to buy, that improves their lives. Which, at least in theory, is what "investing in stock" is all about....

  • Paragons of Virtue (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:19PM (#59270252)

    The Business Roundtable, an influential group of CEOs, said in August that America's top corporations are responsible for improving society by serving all stakeholders ethically, morally and fairly...Walmart CEO Doug McMillon will take over as chairman of The Business Roundtable in January and will serve a two-year term.

    Because the first company I think of when I hear "taking care of your employees" is Walmart.....

    • Well, WalMart does helpfully provide all sorts of help to its employees about applying for government aid. So clearly they must care and not only care about keeping wages low.

  • by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:23PM (#59270272) Journal

    Decades ago, the manager of the site where I worked (a C-level exec) gave an all-hands talk at which he described the role of companies as "the creation and distribution of wealth". In other remarks he made it was plain that "distribution" did not just include distribution to investors, but also to employees, suppliers, etc..

  • He says this in hopes his competitors will agree while he beats them with Milton Friedman style capitalism
  • by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @12:27PM (#59270294)

    Marc Benioff is quite wealthy, so I doubt he has much to lose proposing changes to the system. But I think he's right -- society has moved to a place where it's not about who can produce the most physical stuff and get the largest number of people to buy it.

    There was a golden age in US capitalism around the 50s through the 70s where companies had enough breathing room to share more of their wealth with their employees. The 70s/80s brought manufacturing outsourcing, the 90s brought the great downsizing purge where companies got around to killing off their pre-computer sized workforce, the 2000s brought offshore outsourcing (and outsourcing of all functions in general) and the 2010s are bringing in wide-ranging automation and the subsequent elimination of formerly high-paid knowledge work. Because of all this, companies have been in a race to the bottom since it started, squeezing more and more out of fewer employees. Look at the retail apocalypse -- retailers can't make enough margin selling physical goods in physical stores because online retailers undercut them on price, and people are buying less stuff/want to pay less for the stuff they do buy.

    The question is what companies will do next when people are unemployed and unable to buy products. That's where the change in mentality is going to have to come in. The fabulously wealthy are too small a group to keep making companies revenue. You can only buy so many houses, cars, boats, vacations, etc. Once middle-skill knowledge work is gone, there will be serious problems if millions of office workers who were told to go to college and get office jobs are dumped out on the street with no way to sell their labor.

    • It wasn't just economic trends, it was political trends.

      IMHO, the left figured that general economic growth supported more taxation for the growth of social welfare programs. This worked until the late 1970s when the economy sputtered and inflation skyrocketed.

      The rich capitalized on this to gain tax cuts under the fantasy of trickle down economics, gaining big tax cuts which shifted more tax burden to the middle class who went along with it under the guise of trickle down economics.

      I also think that the i

  • A large retail chain that harnesses bulk buying power to lower prices, for example, can be a societal good.
  • ...new form of capitalism that focuses more on societal good.

    It's called "democratic socialism".

  • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Isn't it great that we live in a country where two people who could practically end several societal problems and barely notice the dip in their savings can tell us that the companies that make them millions should care more about the "little guy"? Man, I'm so proud right now! Now all we have to do is wait and give them even more money!

    (Is there a "sarcasm level: head explode" emoji yet? Cause I don't think /s is nearly sufficient for this...)

  • This would require a completely different economic system.

    I can believe that is possible.

    But, I looked at the article, and did not find much of an explanation.

    At best, this seems like some kind of idealistic fantasy.

  • Not only refuses to unionize but is active busting unions.
    https://www.salon.com/2019/09/... [salon.com]

    So for a corporation that is organized for "public benefit and social good", it's a case of meet the new boss same as the old boss, and you did get fooled again.

  • Translation: (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jeff4747 ( 256583 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @01:17PM (#59270576)

    Please don't regulate away our abuses. We promise we will fix ourselves! Really! This time, we will really do it!

  • The headline makes no grammatical sense:
    "capitalism, as we know it, is dead"
    Because capitalism as we see it daily is obviously very alive. In fact it has changed very little during this century. Perhaps the statement should have been "Capitalism as it is described to 5th graders, is dead"

    The more or less pure capitalism that is taught to children is about competing in the marketplace for customers and profits. Children are told that this honest competition creates jobs and prosperity for everyone.

    The realit

  • by Jodka ( 520060 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @01:29PM (#59270624)

    from the /. summary:

    Benioff is one of the more outspoken corporate leaders but he is not alone. Others are also trying to prioritize the good of their employees and customers over profit.

    There is an obvious and fundamental error in that statement. Happy employees, pleased customers and profits are synergistic, not mutually antagonist. In other words, prioritizing the good of employees and customers can increase, not decrease profits. So it is wrong to write prioritzing "..over profit."

    Hiring the best employees and treating them well results in great products and service. Great products and service make happy customers. Happy customers give you big profit margins and more customers. Having a successful business lowers the cost of borrowing by reducing risk, leaving more profit to distribute between between stakeholders.

    That new kind of capitalism that is going to emerge is not the Milton Friedman capitalism

    Milton Friedman never said that businesses should short-change customers or mistreat employees for the sake of profits. His point vis-à-vis prioritizing profits was that, if a business accepts investment with the promise to investors of increasing value, then that business is ethically obligated to be sincere in that promise and to actually work to return value to the investor. In other words, he wanted corporations to be honest. Friedman explicitly advocated for free markets and the point of a free market is that you are free to do whatever the hell you want, within the boundaries of law. If you want to start a business or non-profit which rewards employees and customers but not shareholders Friedman was 100% cool with that. But he was also frank about the record of success for that sort of thing not being terrific and he wanted truth-in-advertising; if you are not working for your investors then tell them that.

    Sowell points out in his book "Knowledge and Decisions" that profits are a small percentage of corporate financial activity but a large determinant of business success. That is, financial profit is a good social bargain because providing little in profit returns a large amount of value in the form of better management. That is more evidence that interests of customers, employees and investors are not at odds with each other.

  • " America's top corporations are responsible for improving society by serving all stakeholders ethically, morally and fairly -- and not just for boosting the stock price for shareholders." Hahahaha. I'm trying to think of just ONE of America's top corporations to which I could say that statement applies. WalMart? Comcast? [pick any media company] [pick any financial company, but especially Wells Fargo or BoA] Nope.
  • by jrpascucci ( 550709 ) <jrpascucciNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Friday October 04, 2019 @01:45PM (#59270722)
    (paraphrasing) "...is not that you provide a good or better product or service for the same or less money than your competitors. That's not important.

    "The important thing is that you publicly virtue signal and work to support and promote every leftist cause proposed by the media and the political elite, disproportionately reward those who support the same causes, and be sure to give plenty of money to those causes.

    "If you do not, you will be less able to do business with those of us who do, and chances are, you'll run afoul of one of the far too many laws that we can use via 'prosecutorial discression' to disproportionately impact anybody who doesn't support what we think you ought to be doing with your money.

    "That's a nice company you've got there, be a shame if anything were to happen to it."

    Gotcha.
  • The Business Roundtable, an influential group of CEOs, said in August that America's top corporations are responsible for improving society by serving all stakeholders ethically, morally and fairly -- and not just for boosting the stock price for shareholders.

    Contrary to as is popularly stated, capitalism isn't about making profit. It's about selling people what they want. Profit is maximized whenever you give people what they want.* If they want ethics, morality, and fairness, then there will be profit

  • F*ck this guy .... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @02:04PM (#59270812) Journal

    Seriously, Salesforce is the same company that recently denied their services to gun manufacturers:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]

    This CEO just wants to redefine Capitalism with a more liberal agenda.

    Capitalism is SUPPOSED to be about the motivation to make money. It's an economic system, not a system of moral values or ethics, or what makes you feel subjectively good, or any of that. The realities have never changed though. If you don't offer your customer real VALUE for the dollar, you will eventually fail at the goal of making money. That value takes many forms, including the customer feeling your business doesn't engage in activities that he/she is opposed to. But it's always been up to you as the business owner to keep all of that in mind and strike a balance that ensures continued success. (Traditionally, that meant refraining from making biased political statements or expressing your personal views on contentious subjects as though you speak for your entire company. Recently, it seems it's become trendy to throw that out the window. And so far, I see it doing nothing but hurting sales, no matter who does it.)

  • LOL (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Friday October 04, 2019 @02:10PM (#59270830)

    Aging billionaire tries to buy back his soul (with other people's money), film at 11.

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