Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Transportation United States

The Death of Cars Was Greatly Exaggerated (wired.com) 153

Posted by msmash from the fact-check dept.
Personal car ownership in the US has increased in the past 10 years, even in the frenzied urban places where Uber and car-share have become verbs. From a report: According to research from former New York City transportation official Bruce Schaller, the number of vehicles has grown faster than the population in some of the cities where ride-hail is most popular: Boston, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Moreover, some services targeted to the aspirationally or actually car-free have hit the skids. Car2Go, the car-sharing company now jointly owned by Daimler and BMW, said earlier this month it would pull out of half of the North American cities where it operates. (The company, which allows users to pick up and drop off cars at regular street parking spaces, says it will focus its firepower on its remaining North American cities: New York, Montreal, Seattle, Vancouver, and Washington.) BMW-owned ReachNow, a wide-ranging experiment in ride hailing and car rental, folded in the US this summer. The scooter-share folks at Lime last month killed their experimental LimePod car-share service in Seattle. General Motors wound down its Maven car-sharing service in eight of its 17 North American cities this summer. Uber and Lyft, now public companies, are losing gobs of money, and the services' most popular times are Friday evenings, which seems to indicate less that people are ditching their personal cars than ditching their personal cars while drinking.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

The Death of Cars Was Greatly Exaggerated More

The Death of Cars Was Greatly Exaggerated

Comments Filter:

  • Not a surprise at all... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Thursday October 17, 2019 @05:00PM (#59320122) Journal
    The US is mostly suburban and rural [citylab.com], not urban. Having a car is pretty crucial to actually getting to and from work, shopping, etc. And given the amount of time people spend in their cars doing these activities, it makes no sense to simply "rent" the car and live without the stuff and familiarity your own car brings. We are not an urban culture - and that's what is still baffling to denizens of Manhattan and San Francisco.

    • More time demand (Score:5, Insightful)

      by LostMyAccount ( 5587552 ) on Thursday October 17, 2019 @05:17PM (#59320212)

      I wonder how today's frenetic time demands factor into this as well.

      Even if you wanted to take public transportation, in many places its so fucking slow as to be worthless.

      20 years ago I moved 4 miles from the apartment I had been living at to a house. I tried to take the express bus route that served my new neighborhood and it was agony. The bus ride itself was over 35 minutes to go about 8 miles, and I had about 20 minutes of walking on both ends of the trip combined.

      The same trip in the car was 20-25 minutes door to door. A paid parking spot in the ramp across the street was only about $75 more per month than the bus pas, so I gave up on the bus.

      Don't even get me started on what local, non-express bus service was like. Even close in to downtown it was barely more time efficient than walking 2-3 miles.

      • Re:More time demand (Score:5, Insightful)

        by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Thursday October 17, 2019 @05:41PM (#59320334) Journal
        Even for unhurried people, time is precious.
        30 minutes saved a day is 30 additional minutes you can spend with your family or on your hobbies, and that time adds up quickly. Some people prefer to gain that time by driving, and even if public transport is as fast, having a car allows you to make a small detour during your commute and get groceries for a week, or pick up the kids, or whatever. That's another 30-60 minutes gained. However, others will make good use of their time spent on public transport: you can work, or read, or do other stuff on the go if you don't have to drive. That's another way of gaining time, in the end it comes down to your preferences.

        It might be a psychological thing. If you leave work and get into your car, the work day is done. But if you take public transport, it kind of feels like you're only really done when you get to your front door.

        • Re:More time demand (Score:5, Interesting)

          by blind biker ( 1066130 ) on Friday October 18, 2019 @09:38AM (#59321866) Journal

          It might be a psychological thing. If you leave work and get into your car, the work day is done. But if you take public transport, it kind of feels like you're only really done when you get to your front door.

          Interesting, I see it almost the exact opposite - when I am in public transport I can do a lot of things like relax, read a book, watch a video, etc. In a car, I have to drive, which oftentimes isn't relaxing. I have seen the traffic in some US cities, and I don't think that's even remotely relaxing (that said, there are cities, especially in California, where I just couldn't live at all).

          So for me the time in public transport is more mine than the job's. But what is 100% MY time is when I bicycle to and from work. I enjoy it so much, it's truly mine.

          • But what is 100% MY time is when I bicycle to and from work. I enjoy it so much, it's truly mine.

            I dislike cycling. But I did appreciate living close enough to work to be able to cycle there for a while, and like you, I felt that time was my own rather than work time.

          • In my experience there was nothing especially comfortable about being on the bus. The seats were like coach airline seats in terms of size, and of course you're wearing your winter coat in the winter and dealing with your bag. There was zero room for laptops, and even something bigger than a paperback or folded up newspaper was awkward to read. In the winter it was too hot with your coat on, but you couldn't take it off. In the summer the air conditioning was broken about half the time.

            So environmentall

        • It might be a psychological thing. If you leave work and get into your car, the work day is done. But if you take public transport, it kind of feels like you're only really done when you get to your front door.

          When you get into your car after work, you can go ANYWHERE at all. When you get on a bus, you can only go to another bus stop. It is the ability to go anywhere that ends the workday for a person.

      • That said, sometimes it's not about efficiency.

        It used to take me about 30 minutes to drive to work. But I got energetic and I would bike and take the train. It took me two hours one way. But, y'know, I felt a lot better doing that than driving. Rather than driving home and stopping at the gym to get some exercise, I consolidated them both together. I didn't do it every day, granted, but I'd do it 2-3 days a week.

        The company that my roommate works for turned "Bike to Work Day" into "Figure Out A Way To

        • So she took the bus. Instead of the 40 minute drive during rush hour, it took her 70 minutes with the walk from the bus stop.

          Then she has really, really good transit. My 30-45 minute commute drive would be 1hr45m - 2hr15m on public transit.

          • I'm a long-distance rural commuter. Although long, it is relaxing (little traffic) and when I can be alone and think through problems. I've had some much shorter urban commutes. I've got one light and just a few stop signs--all at either one or the other end. Most of the commute is non-stop. One of my co-workers has a commute that takes almost as much time as mine--but constant rush hour traffic. No thanks. And the public transit systems I've seen (not an option)--no thanks.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        This. Every minute spent on a bus is a minute I can't spend doing something else. And it adds up — often very quickly.

        On my way to work, it would only take about 15 minutes longer, all of which would be walking, and I could reduce my treadmill walking later, so it would be fine. But on the way home from work, three days per week, I would end up driving within a couple of blocks of work on my way to my evening activities, and would lose about an hour of work time.

        Or if I tried to take mass transit

      • Exactly this is the fate awaiting electric grid.

        When everybody used public transport, it was quite efficient and fast and economical. Dont blame the death of public transport on the secret cartel of Firestone, Ford and Standard Oil. They did illegal things, true, but with active support of politicians and general public who all hated public transport and dreamed of having their own car. As soon as one can afford a car, he/she ditched public transport, the fixed costs were distributed over shrinking pool o

        • Dont blame the death of public transport on the secret cartel of Firestone, Ford and Standard Oil. They did illegal things, true, but with active support of politicians and general public who all hated public transport and dreamed of having their own car.

          Sure, they were told that it would bring them freedom. And in some ways it does, but in other ways it doesn't help at all. The government can take away your car any time it wants, at most it will have to refund fees, and you have to agree to a breath or blood test any time you're driving to avoid an assumption of guilt. The car can only go where the roads are, and the roads are expensive and have more ecological impact than rail.

          The fact that public transport doesn't serve everyone all the time was not an i

          • Seriously, how often does confiscation actually happen? meanwhile it's already occurring in China public transportation. If you give govt those powers, it's your fault. Not the car/streets. Not the public transit. Oh, there has always been a heck of a lot more roads than public transportation. Going all the way back to Ugh and his deer path to Ohgge's cave.

      • There's also a diff in your auto insurance: if you drive to/from work, your insurance rates go up (assuming you're honest with your insurance company). And you can use your bus pass any time, not just commuting.

        That said, I believe the insurance diff is relatively small, and you may not want to ride the bus anywhere else; and buses can be a pain to ride (figuratively or even literally). Like you, I drive back and forth to work, although there is a bus that goes from somewhere near my house to somewhere ne

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Public transport is best for journeys you need to make regularly, e.g. getting to work. If you can take a train or bus that gets you through the rush hour traffic and to work on time every day while you read a book or post on Slashdot then you might prefer that to getting stuck in a queue of cars.

        For random trips if you have a decent public transport system it can still be better than driving, but many places don't.

        • Public transport is best for journeys you need to make regularly, e.g. getting to work. If you can take a train or bus that gets you through the rush hour traffic and to work on time every day while you read a book or post on Slashdot then you might prefer that to getting stuck in a queue of cars.

          I'd rather spend 30m in rush hour traffic than 60m on the bus. That bus time is only useful if you don't have a family you are trying to spend time with, or important work to do that can't be done with distractions, or literally anything else other than "sit with a bunch of noisy strangers".

          If the thing you need done can be done with a bunch of noisy strangers, then a bus commute is perfect for you - for the rest of us it makes sense to maximise the time in our day.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      The point is entirely lost on you. The story is about the success, or lack thereof, literally "n the frenzied urban places where Uber and car-share have become verbs". No one has failed to understand that not all of the country is urban, it's you that's failed to understand that the article already takes that into account.

      • No, you missed the point. You're not going to be successful trying to scale an extremely expensive business that caters to a slice of just 25% of the population. Focusing in the small urban market with a business that has high capitalization costs doesn't really play out, does it? It's why it's not a surprise - the US simply doesn't have a population distribution that supports the kinds of business models these companies set up.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Feelings (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BrainJunkie ( 6219718 ) on Thursday October 17, 2019 @05:05PM (#59320148)
    A lot of this is probably due to the feeling of security and independence that having a car provides. Your ability to get around isn't dependent on your phone working,, or a driver being nearby, or there being a working car at the rental stand. You can be sure that, as long as the thing is in good repair and has fuel, your personal car will be available exactly when it is needed.

    Or maybe I am projecting. I travel by bicycle most often, but despite that and bike rental stands being all over and subways and car rental and ride share...I still own both a bike and a car.

  • I never understood how Cars2GO was supposed to work. They have a fleet of Smart Fortwo, tiny 2 seater cars with almost no trunk space (enough for a couple of backpacks, if that). Also, they have designated parking areas within the city, you can't just leave them anywhere. And they don't allow intercity travel.

    It's not like you could pick one up in NYC and leave it in Boston. So they're basically useless for what a city dweller would need a car for: transporting stuff, or intercity travel. How anyone thought

    • In our town, Vancouver, Canada, the Car2Go and other car share services have a few set parking spaces but once you get away from the actual urban core out to the residential neighbourhoods, they can be left in any legal parking space, EVEN IF THE RESIDENTS HAVE TO PAY FOR A PERMIT TO PARK IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN HOUSE. As a city resident you can be left without a parking space in front of your own house even if you paid for the privilege.

      Some of the car share services do have vehicles larger than the Car42 b

      • EVEN IF THE RESIDENTS HAVE TO PAY FOR A PERMIT TO PARK IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN HOUSE. As a city resident you can be left without a parking space in front of your own house even if you paid for the privilege.

        Why don't they just park in their own drive ways, carports/garages?

        We're talking about private homes here, right?

        • The sad fact is that the people who have garages often have either too many cars for the garage space they have, have filled their garage with junk they haven't room for in the house or, as is becoming more common, have replaced their garage with a laneway house that has no actual space for a car at all. Of course, the fact that houses are commonly built with the upstairs, the basement suite and the laneway house as three separate living spaces, even on a 26 foot wide lot, now strata'd out as separate sale

        • EVEN IF THE RESIDENTS HAVE TO PAY FOR A PERMIT TO PARK IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN HOUSE. As a city resident you can be left without a parking space in front of your own house even if you paid for the privilege.

          Why don't they just park in their own drive ways, carports/garages?

          We're talking about private homes here, right?

          No, i think he is talking about row homes, even high end very expensive row homes in congested places like D.C. with street only parking.

          Stayed in an airbnb in D.C. a while back, row home, very nice, came with a resident parking permit tag you hang on your mirror.

          If I got back to the place after 6pm people were cutting throats in the streets for a parking space, even WITH the permit only parking. I usually had to park several blocks away.

      • The BMW "Reach Now" service used the road adjacent to my house to store all their unused cars. Overnight we went from about 10 available spots for visitors and deliveries to 0. I submitted a complaint to the county and the next day they were moved to some other poor neighborhood.

        Then they can back a few months later - and I was going to complain again, but before I did, they shut down operations and disappeared again.

        It was easy to see that they were losing money. They paid for a number of quite pricey BMW

        • They paid for a number of quite pricey BMW cars to sit by the road never being used.

          I can't see how it would be any other way. People need to move around in large numbers at peak times, and any extra usage you get from off-peak times will mean cars needed for the return journeys will be where they AREN'T needed, so you'll have large over-provisioning AND staff to move them around.

          The bike sharing things you see are the same. Sometimes there are 4 times the number of bikes the rack should hold, sometimes there are none. The benefit is that you can load 20 in a van and move them quickly, not

  • and buying a car is still cheaper than Uber. The bus isn't really an option as it would turn my 20 minute drive into an 80 minutes on the bus, one way. And then there's still a two block walk to my desk from the bus stop.

    • This is true for most of the USA (possibly to those living in rural areas in other countries as well).

    • I agree, buying a car is a LOT cheaper than Uber. I tried using Uber and Lyft just for weekends (the weekday I take the train), and it was more expensive. Take two $20 trips (there and back) each day of the weekend, and that's $320 a month.

  • Americans like their freedom, go figure (Score:3, Funny)

    by Lije Baley ( 88936 ) on Thursday October 17, 2019 @05:09PM (#59320178)

    We prefer the dystopia where we get our own cars and meat and the problems that go with them, instead of that other dystopia where the Earth is "pure" and we exist, if we must, only to serve it.

    p.s.
    Hi to the "Why is a U.S.-oriented story posted on Slashdot?" trolls.

    • Americans like their freedom

      This just reminds me of some Slashdot article a while back saying we were slaves because we drive everywhere.

      • If your best choice is to drive a bad commute everyday to work, then it's both - you are a slave to it then, and enjoy the freedom of it at other times. I am fortunate enough to avoid being a slave to it since I have a decent bus route available to my workplace, and also work from home a couple days a week.

    • Or, you could have functioning public transit and still manage to have a fun life. Lots of major cities, like Boston and New York have major public transit systems. Unfortunately, Americans refuse to seriously invest in public transit nearly as much as would be optimal.

      • I've been riding buses to and from work for over 20 years, but outside of work I enjoy driving to places that are not practical for public transit. Many of us don't find our fun in urban areas.

      • Lots of major cities, like Boston and New York have major public transit systems. Unfortunately, Americans refuse to seriously invest in public transit nearly as much as would be optimal.

        MOST cities in the US are NOT densely packed, urban areas where everyone is stacked up on top of each other either.

        It makes a difference.

        In most of the US cities, you have single family homes, with yards, and room to breath a bit.

        To each their own...but I prefer a place with a back yard where I can have my smoker or se

        • "I prefer a place with a back yard where I can have my smoker or set up and have friends over for a crawfish boil, or brew beer, etc....."

          I think I need you for a neighbor.

          • "I prefer a place with a back yard where I can have my smoker or set up and have friends over for a crawfish boil, or brew beer, etc....."

            I think I need you for a neighbor.

            :)

      • You do realize that more than 99% of America is located outside "major cities", right?
        In fact, about 50% of the US population lives is suburb or exurb areas - areas that cannot be handled by public transportation - plus another 25% that lives in straight-up rural areas.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Ichijo ( 607641 )

      We prefer...

      Stop right there because no, we don't prefer. In order to get people to be loyal customers of Big Oil, governments must heavily subsidize driving [taxfoundation.org], force developers and business owners to provide more parking than the market wants [strongtowns.org], and legislate density limits to increase distances between places people want to go to and from until driving becomes the only practical way to get around.

      (N.B. I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic but you're echoing what many people here in the USA actually think

      • Thanks for the benefit of the doubt, but even though I tend not to take my opinions or anyone else's very seriously, I do think that the "ignorant masses" are actually choosing the better dystopia here. Much better than that land of conspiracies from your bubble.

    • Cars are not freedom to those who cannot drive.

  • Uber and car-share have become verbs

    I've never actually seen or heard anyone use Uber as a verb? I've seen "I'll catch//take an Uber/Lyft" and "I drive for Uber / I'm working for Uber tonight" but never "I Ubered over to the bar / I Ubered her home"

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Etcetera ( 14711 )

      Uber and car-share have become verbs

      I've never actually seen or heard anyone use Uber as a verb? I've seen "I'll catch//take an Uber/Lyft" and "I drive for Uber / I'm working for Uber tonight" but never "I Ubered over to the bar / I Ubered her home"

      It's fairly common in San Diego to use it as a verb, at least among my friends. It gets used in both forms.
      Without a doubt, Uber's most common use here is as a replacement for Designated Drivers when people are heading downtown (or somewhere) for a night out. Because we have very low density, taxis and cabs are extremely rare outside of the entertainment districts, so people rarely if ever "took a cab" anywhere and didn't use that phrase colloquially. Rather, "I'll drive over" became "I'll Uber over"...

  • Just imagine that flashy, media-savvy companies with business models that relied on people not using their own cars that were to get uber (pun not intended) amounts of venture capital may have exaggerated the decline of car ownership.
    Also imagine that most millennials will be using their parent's hand-me-down cars until their parents die (because mummy and daddy keep the car in their name and pay for the insurance).
    Further imagine that GM has been on strike for weeks.
    So, why would I be surprised that the me

  • https://afdc.energy.gov/data/1... [energy.gov]

    I work in sustainability. It's one of our many charges to reduce personal vehicle use as a means to reducing GHG emissions. When the recession hit, US vehicle miles traveled began to go down for the first time since the Oil Crisis. People called it "peak car". People traded in their SUVs, got Priuses, and generally started looking at we call "more sustainable transportation options". Bus ridership went up. Train ridership went up. Biking and walking went up. Most college stu

    • Well duh. When you got no job or your position is on a chopping block, of course you postpone buying a car. And when you're so broke you can't make a monthly payment, you take a bus or ride bicycle. It nice to talk about biking and sustainability when you live in a cozy college town but the bigger issue is that USA remains largely a suburban or rural country, with most places not having population density to sustain public transport.

  • Another failed prediction? Wow, I didn't think we had any more of those considering what people are willing to believe in these days!

    • More like a strawman or begging the question. Few sane people thought Uber/Lyft would suddenly greatly slow car sales.

      Just like self driving cars were overhyped as being "right around the corner" so now people doubt they will ever get here, but it should have always been apparent that we were still at least a decade minimum away.

  • I've never though Uber/Lyft were replacing cars. They're doing two things - supplementing them (park on the fringe, Lyft to your destination.), and competing with taxis. It's way easier to have an app which will work anywhere to call for a ride than to try to hail a cab (other than dense urban areas or transit hubs, perhaps) or figure out how to contact a local taxi company. And in my experience, it's a much shorter wait than calling a taxi company.

    There's probably a market opportunity for a startup to cre
  • People have liked and wanted personal transportation for probably longer than we've even had recorded history. It's a very human trait and I don't see it going away anytime soon, either, and in fact I'd say that in many ways it's a survival trait.
  • I personally hate spending hours every day in my car. Not having any sort of decent mass transit is a primary reason that me and my family are leaving the US. Right now, I spend 1/8 of my awake hours 5 days a week, in my car. During that time, I can do nothing else. It's a waste of my time, and more accurately, it's a waste of my life. I'm glad some people like wasting their time in their car, but I don't. I have much more interesting things I'd rather do than sit in a car for hours each day.

    • You're making it sound like all of USA has a big traffic problem. The truth is maybe it's just only a few big cities. And I don't know about "doing nothing" while driving. Play a podcast. You do something that matters on a bus ride?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DogDude ( 805747 )
        Traffic is bad in all of the populated areas on the coasts, where the vast majority of people live. And yeah, I'd count a "podcast" as doing nothing, unfortunately.

      • And I don't know about "doing nothing" while driving. Play a podcast.

        Personally, I turn on Autopilot and start reading my email.

        • And I don't know about "doing nothing" while driving. Play a podcast.

          Personally, I turn on Autopilot and start reading my email.

          I like to open up xvideos or pornhub on my phone and prop it up in front of my instrument panel then jerk off on my ride home.

          Just kidding, i haven't jerked off while driving "yet".

          Now road head is an entirely different animal.

          Is road head doing nothing?

      • You're making it sound like all of USA has a big traffic problem. The truth is maybe it's just only a few big cities. And I don't know about "doing nothing" while driving. Play a podcast. You do something that matters on a bus ride?

        NPR

    • I hear you. Traffic and commuting is an ordeal. I recently switched to riding the bus to work and have noticed something: driving home is the the absolute worst thing I could ever do in my life. Getting to work is easy, getting home is a god-dammed nightmare I wouldn't wish on anyone. Disclaimer: I ride an express line, so only 3 stops before I get off (14 miles). I fully endorse everyone take as many express lines as possible. Less traffic, somebody else is driving, I can read a book, I'm not screami

    • I live in the USA and walk across the hall into my office opposite my bedroom to work. Maybe the issue isn't the country you are living in?

  • Duh (Score:2)

    by Necron69 ( 35644 )

    " Uber and Lyft, now public companies, are losing gobs of money, and the services' most popular times are Friday evenings, which seems to indicate less that people are ditching their personal cars than ditching their personal cars while drinking."

    It took you a whole research study to figure that out?

    - Necron69

  • Almost all my friends and relatives say the same things. Kids are not interested in cars, they prefer dense urban living, want to walk to restaurants and parks, they actually look at Uber wait times in picking apartments and condos. So many don't even have driving licenses, driving does not excite them. It is so ridiculous they would enjoy playing the car racing video game in a Tesla parked at the supercharger, but hate driving the same Tesla on a real road!

    Car ownership does not make sense, most expensiv

  • It'll be a long time before cars are gone, at least to the extent that people will elect to give up cars, at least in the US. But why?

    - Public transit is terrible. And I'm a user. I ride public transit regularly in conjunction with a bike because it's faster than driving where I live/work, and it's always crowded, slow, poorly or inadequately scheduled, and (once in a while) actively dangerous. All of these except the last can be ameliorated if we're willing to do what Europe's done, which is to say acc

    • You are not wrong on any single point.
      It all sucks.
      Change does not come without unhappiness, unless of course you are vested in the change. Just remember, if it sucks and you want to make it better you have to move through the pain to get to the other side. Hopefully our generation will become know for dealing with our parents bullshit and fixing it, or at least starting the fixes.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by godrik ( 1287354 )

      I think the fundamental problem is what you labeled "The layouts of our suburbs are awful." American suburbs are not dense enough to make public transit a viable option.

      I live in Charlotte, NC (16th largest city in the us by population count), and the population density of the city around 1000/km2. My neighborhood is actually a bit denser around about 2000/km2. But that is still incredibly sparse.

      I used to live in France and pretty much every city, scratch that, town is denser than that. Tours, a city know

  • No surprise at all for anyone with a real job and a couple of children. You can't do it without a car and stay sane, at least not in the US.

  • The only people insisting the demise of the car was nigh were ecomarxists (for whom it is an article of religious faith and has been since 1970), wealthy hipsters who can afford to live in pricey brownstones, order all their food brought to them by drones, and uber everywhere else, or someone trying to sell you something (ie uber).

Slashdot Top Deals

I've noticed several design suggestions in your code.

Close