The 'Amazon Effect' Is Flooding a Struggling Recycling System With Cardboard (theverge.com) 172
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: The rise in curbside cardboard waste coming from packaging is "the Amazon effect," says David Biderman, the executive director of the Solid Waste Association of North America, an industry group. It peaks around the holidays -- particularly as online shopping has only gotten more popular. Last year, Cyber Monday was the biggest shopping day for Amazon in the history of the company. The trend extends beyond the holidays: U.S. Postal Service deliveries have doubled to 6.2 billion in 2018, from 3.1 billion in 2009. As Americans have gotten more enthusiastic about online shopping, China -- which once welcomed almost half the world's recyclables -- has gotten more stringent about what it will accept. Starting in January 2018, China stopped accepting shipments of cardboard that are contaminated with more than 0.5 percent of other materials.
All those packages, along with the stricter rules on recycling, mean more cardboard in the trash -- especially during the holiday shopping season. Republic Services, a US waste hauler that operates in 42 states, expects each household to dispose of 25 percent more trash, or about 1,000 extra pounds, between Thanksgiving and New Year's Day. But thanks to China's new policies, there will be less money to be made recycling. "To use the word bluntly: that's a crisis, an economic crisis in the viability of recycling in the U.S.," Richard Coupland, vice president of municipal sales at Republic Services, tells The Verge. Republic Services has seen about a 5 percent increase in the overall volume of cardboard it has picked up and resold for recycling over roughly the past seven years. But some locations have seen more dramatic increases. Coupland says that about 25 to 30 percent of the materials picked up by a recycling truck are too contaminated to go anywhere but a landfill or incinerator. Meanwhile, there's been a more than 50 percent decline in the price of recovered cardboard in the U.S. since China's decision.
"Coupland believes there's actually been as much as an 80 to 100 percent devaluation in some markets," reports The Verge. "That's a big reason why cities across the country are scaling back or completely dumping their recycling programs."
All those packages, along with the stricter rules on recycling, mean more cardboard in the trash -- especially during the holiday shopping season. Republic Services, a US waste hauler that operates in 42 states, expects each household to dispose of 25 percent more trash, or about 1,000 extra pounds, between Thanksgiving and New Year's Day. But thanks to China's new policies, there will be less money to be made recycling. "To use the word bluntly: that's a crisis, an economic crisis in the viability of recycling in the U.S.," Richard Coupland, vice president of municipal sales at Republic Services, tells The Verge. Republic Services has seen about a 5 percent increase in the overall volume of cardboard it has picked up and resold for recycling over roughly the past seven years. But some locations have seen more dramatic increases. Coupland says that about 25 to 30 percent of the materials picked up by a recycling truck are too contaminated to go anywhere but a landfill or incinerator. Meanwhile, there's been a more than 50 percent decline in the price of recovered cardboard in the U.S. since China's decision.
"Coupland believes there's actually been as much as an 80 to 100 percent devaluation in some markets," reports The Verge. "That's a big reason why cities across the country are scaling back or completely dumping their recycling programs."
Burn it (Score:4, Insightful)
Burn it. Waste burning power plants are on the rise in Europe at least, since China cracked down on imported waste, and cardboard is good fuel. As long as the cardboard is made from wood from sustainably managed forests, burning it is carbon-neutral, and there's not much in the way of other nasty by-products.
Re:Burn it (Score:4, Insightful)
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Useing less packaging would be a good place to start.
Packaging isn't just for show. It also protects the product being shipped. That's important to businesses because they usually bear all risk of shipping damage. They also have to account for lenient laws or policies that allow customers to return anything. Packaging has to survive shipping to the customer, the customer manhandling it and then using it to ship the order back. Plus, at least in my experience, the quality of shipping has gone down in recent years, leading to more damage during transport.
You en
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Useing less packaging would be a good place to start.
Packaging isn't just for show. It also protects the product being shipped. That's important to businesses because they usually bear all risk of shipping damage. They also have to account for lenient laws or policies that allow customers to return anything. Packaging has to survive shipping to the customer, the customer manhandling it and then using it to ship the order back. Plus, at least in my experience, the quality of shipping has gone down in recent years, leading to more damage during transport.
You end up with a lot of conflicting requirements. Sure, you could reduce packaging but then you'd increase the rate at which products get damaged during shipping. Thus creating more problematic waste than just cardboard. There are also considerations like most vendors cannot stock hundreds of different packagings optimized for every single product.
Yeah and thats fair enough but was is the point in putting a bubble wrapped envelope into a plastic bag 4 times the size on a side? Functional protective packaging is one thing but neither of these were that.
Re:Burn it (Score:4, Interesting)
Useing less packaging would be a good place to start.
Packaging isn't just for show. It also protects the product being shipped. That's important to businesses because they usually bear all risk of shipping damage. They also have to account for lenient laws or policies that allow customers to return anything. Packaging has to survive shipping to the customer, the customer manhandling it and then using it to ship the order back. Plus, at least in my experience, the quality of shipping has gone down in recent years, leading to more damage during transport.
But Amazon has gotten worse at packaging in their effort to increase volume per employee. It used to be that they would consolidate things and usually ship them in one box. Now, even for things delivered by subscription on the same day, they come in four or five cardboard wrap-style boxes instead of one normal box and air bags. The amount of packaging waste has skyrocketed, and we have to dispose of all of it, which gets to be a real pain. And the wrap-style boxes offer almost no protection compared with real boxes.
There’s only one way to fix that: a steep recycling fee for corrugated cardboard, on the order of a dollar per box. Amazon won’t fix things unless it is cheaper to pack things right than to pack them quickly.
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Unless it's a DEPOSIT that the customer can get back in REFUND, it won't happen.
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Better than vendors who try to save on padding in regular boxes which means the contents gets bumped around or even breaks through the package which is only being held together by some flimsy eco-friendly paper packing tape.
I started ordering Fiji water through Amazon because their pricing is actually better than my local supermarket. I get 12 one liter bottles in a box, two sets of six in shrink wrap. That box is then placed in a much larger box, maybe three feet long, with my other subscribe and save items. This ensures that my other items get smashed by the heavy box of water during shipping.
I understand this cuts down on shipping costs, but I really would prefer to receive the small box of water separately.
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As soon as I read "Fiji Water" I knew we could never become friends.
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I ordered some contact lens cases the other day and they came in three bigger and bigger plastic bags. The top one could've easily fit 10 or more of what I ordered in it. Same when I ordered some in ear headphones a while back but that was with cardboard.
At one point they were sending things in smaller boxes that barely fit.... Or the almost envelope style cardboard things. I think they even had something included that said this was to save on cardboard waste.
Then just the other day I ordered some watch batteries. They were placed in an envelope that they only filled about 1/2 of. And that envelope was placed in a 4 x 8 x 11 box......What.
Yes, use less (Score:4)
My grandmother told me she once ordered a bucket from Sears. It arrived at her home as a bucket with a mailing label with her name on the side of it.
Most of the packaging that I get from Amazon or other retailers is either over done or completely unnecessary.
Re:Burn it (Score:5, Interesting)
there's not much in the way of other nasty by-products.
The cardboard itself isn't that big of a problem to deal with. The box blue, the packaging tape, the shipping label, the ink used to make the design on the box, and so on are the bigger issues. The box glue is typically made from polyvinyl acetate (PVA) and will release acetic acid on combustion. The packaging tape is usually a mixture of celluloid and different types of resins mixed with PVA and strengthen with twine and colored with acid based inks. The shipping label is typically treated polyethylene terephthalate with a heat sensitive ink along with a binding material and adhesive made from PVA based mixtures. All of these things release chemicals that have to be scrubbed. Especially if you are going to burn a ton of boxes. Even if all the above make up just 10% of the end material, that's still 200 pounds of this stuff that converts to really nasty by-products being released into the air.
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My understanding is that power plants that are designed to burn waste will capture the outgassing and particulate matter and sequester or scrub it before releasing back into the atmosphere.
It seems like it is a good enough option that progressive European countries have adopted it.
Re:Burn it (Score:5, Interesting)
Some scrubbing is done, but it's iffy. Cities like Indianapolis burn huge volumes of unsorted trash, and the resulting slag is pretty gruesome. Add that to constant violations for voiding air pollution standards, increases in lung disease and cancers down-wind, and it's not really a viable solution without lots of expensive sorting-- labor costs.
One way to subsidize the costs are to tax each box, to help pay for its recycling. It wouldn't be a re-use tax, like the return-tax on soda bottles, rather, a way to pay for the actual costs of recycling/remediation.
Someone along the way has to remove the packing materials, search for non-cardboard stuff inside the boxes, bind the boxes, and ship the boxes en masse to the recycler/incinerator. All this costs money beyond what Amazon (etc) are charging.
Completing the circuit by charging money up front in pricing/taxes then funds the responsible disposal.
Re:Burn it (Score:4, Interesting)
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You mistake, I believe, the acts of governor of Indiana for the political will of its people, which are separate initiatives. Governments love to kick the can down the road in the ruse of conserving taxes, only to let future generations pay (parts of) the bill. The HQ2 negotiations were a hilarious lipstick contest.... and probably have nothing to do with the death of the Amazon warehouse worker. Was there a cover-up of the death and a mitigation of Amazon fines? Probably. What other contestants in that bea
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Like most "red" states, it's had its blue moments, too. The totally red legislature there has been in place because the blues were probably as corrupt but with worse PR.
That said, Quayle came from Indiana, but so did other moderates like the recently departed Ruckleshaus. Vonnegut came from Indiana. And so, it's not about Indiana-- just lazy-ass Dems that can't find a candidate that isn't in someone's pocket, although the current administration sure seems willing to be in Amazon's pocket. Even Indy has a De
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Burning unsorted trash is already idiotic. Most cities have already got people used to separating trash. They should just have: combustible, metals, everything else. This is just a simplification of what they have now.
Re:Burn it (Score:5, Insightful)
The box glue is typically made from polyvinyl acetate (PVA) and will release acetic acid on combustion.
Acetic acid burns to carbon dioxide and water. If your combustion is releasing acetic acid, it's not burning hot enough.
It's the chlorides you need to worry about (you need to scrub that with NaOH or the equivalent to convert the HCl to NaCl), but these are pretty small components. And the solution here would be to not allow packaging to use PVC or other chlorine-containing materials.
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Works great if you heat with a woodstove, like many rural people (incl myself) do. In some ways, we benefit more from ship-to-door, as otherwise it's a long way to most retailers from here. In my case, 25 minute drive to the nearest general store. Anything that looks at total emissions has to consider that as well.
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Give it to your dog. They love to tear/chew cardboard - cheaper than replacing furniture ;)
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Yours is the #1 answer. #2 is compost it. Cardboard is mostly wood.
Cat toys and gift/moving boxes (Score:2)
Most of our amazon boxes follow a pattern where they are flattened, stored, and then used as a cat toy when the old one is destroyed, used to package gifts, to ship other items, or for friends/family that need moving boxes. I'd say 90% of my cardboard boxes are used twice at least.
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It would still be better if we eliminated the use of boxes as much as possible. The delivery could be done in a reusable box that the delivery person takes away with them after you have taken your item out. Or do it like the old milk bottles where they bring you new ones and take the old ones away for reuse.
Actually for a lot of stuff a box isn't really needed, a paper bag would do. If Amazon offered a "delivery in paper bag" option I'd tick it for most items.
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Actually I'd say 50% of my items already come in a shipping pouch and not a box. Not sure if that is more of less waste as I can not reuse the pouch.
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I save them, and use them as packaging material when I send things back to Amazon.
I hope they have an effective way to sort and recycle the packaging material that comes back with their returns!?
Just like how they always put the strip that's peeled off the adhesive into the envelope so it's my problem... I'm sure that saves them millions over a year in not having to take out the trash (or even have a trash / recycle bin) at all their shipping preparation stations.
My friend has a small home based eBay busin
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I am not so sure that would be a win. All environmental questions require system thinking. Any 'fix' for one problem almost certainly creates others, we need to be careful to make sure the new problems are better quality than the old problems.
Some questions for reusable boxes:
1) What material would use use? Plastic its light but it fatigues and used this way we would likely be creating a new stream of material that needs to be recycled. The challenges of disposal / recycling of plastics are well documente
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For example, a NERF blaster came in a customized brown box that was designed specifically for the toy. This not only saves wasted packaging money but also generates less (non-recyclable) trash. If you are buying for your own consumption what is the point of full color retail packaging if it isn't being displayed on a store shelf?
sorry, I'll just go to the store (Score:4, Insightful)
and burn fossil fuel stuck in traffic and driving around the parking lot for hours. and then burn more fossils driving around to 5 different stores cause no one has the exact item I want and I'm not willing to settle
Stop complaining about China (Score:5, Insightful)
China won't do our dirty-work for us any more. Good for them! It is time to start pricing products to include the domestic cost of recycling in the packaging, and watch the problem sort itself out. OR start charging the consumers to have their products recycled. Maybe the people who think that recycling is free and will save the world will get a dose of reality.
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Do that many people even bother with recycling anymore?
Most folks around here, self included, just throw everything in the trash and they haul it off a couple times a week.
I see a few folks that put out a blue recycling thing, but not many.
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I don't know where you live, but in my county, yeah, everyone does: bottles, cans, cardboard, paper.. fortunately now it all goes in one bin which makes life easier and people more likely to recycle. It's really not that much of a hassle.
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That's interesting.
Where you live, do you have to do all the stringent "cleaning" of your recyclables that I'm seeing other posting they have to do?
How do you make room for all this in your kitchen/bathrooms/office in your home? Do you have a least 2x cans for trash and
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Dude I was being mean to try and get through your skull but seriously you produce a FUCK TON of trash. When I was single I produced 3/4ths of a kitchen bag of trash.
Now that I'm married I still don't make as much garbage as you do single. You should figure out what it is that makes most of your trash and then adjust your lifestyle.
I manage my trash by keeping multiple bags in my bin. It's very simple. I think you're being dishonest and stubborn with yourself, happens to the best of us but these are bull
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That sounds like a lot of trash to me as well. For the two of us here, we have a single 64-gallon trash bin and a recycle bin that we put out every other week at most. And yes, we usually eat at home. Some things to think about:
- Get bills electronically. Lots of advantages besides less mail, including better security and recordkeeping.
- If the plastic grocery bags are going directly into the trash, then they aren't needed. Take some reusable bags to the store.
- If there's room to store full cans and bot
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I do pay 99.99% of my bills online, BUT, I don't go paperless....it reminds me what bills are due when. If I don't have that physical bill in a stack siting there, I'll forget about them....too much email, etc....gets lost in the noise.
Well, I tend to try to go grocery sho
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It all goes into one bin to make it easier to carry it all to the dump.
Seriously, "recycling" has always been the most over-hyped, counterproductive virtue signalling of all the leftist nonsense. In almost all cases, the environmental costs of the recycling are greater than land filling, and took the air out of the room for other programs that would make useful contributions for cleaning up the mess humans make on the earth.
Ok boomer (Score:2)
Compared to most people I produce very little waste, I don't even have a car.
It would still take 4 earths to sustain my lifestyle if everyone on the planet got to do it. So please make a small effort to give a half of a fuck, or at least have the decency to ride down to the local kindergarden and scream fuck you I am too lazy directly to the faces of the people you're screwing over.
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My household generates at least four bags of recyclable materials for every bag of garbage that is thrown out. Unfortunately our condo building only has a garbage chute, so we end up hauling a wagon of bags downstairs to the garbage room. The single bin for recycling is often full and overflowing; we really do need it to be picked up twice a week.
The building went up in 2007, I don't understand the lack of planning for recycling.
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Gee whiz Moby, maybe if I could, say, walk into local brick-and-mortar stores to buy everything I ever need to buy, I wouldn't need to have everything shipped to me? Honestly: I don't want to have to order things on the Internet but what choice does anyone have anymore? Go in some empty store and have a salesperson say "Sorry we don't stock {thing} but we can order it for you"? So they can sti
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Yeah they may be ethnically cleansing the Uygurs, enacting Orwellian thought control systems, and waging violence against a neighbor nation in order to subvert their democracy... But stop complaining about them, they wont throw away our trash anymore for their own great monetary profit!
Precious little lambs that they are.
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Yes! I came here specifically to ask why we rely on China when we could build the same processing facilities to convert recyclable materials back into new products/packaging/whatever. More local industry, more jobs, less shipping expense, less waste. Everybody wins if we do our own recycling management.
Economic Crisis (Score:4, Insightful)
When there is an "economic crisis in the viability" of some particular activity, economics says you stop doing it. It isn't that hard. Well, until you get a government mandate that says that the activity must be performed, in which case it becomes well nigh impossible. So the "crisis" is one of politics, not economics.
Wrong. (Score:3)
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Funny, I don't see that responsibility or power listed in the enumerated, limited powers the federal and state constitutions give the government.
Hmm.....
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Funny, I don't see that responsibility or power listed in the enumerated, limited powers the federal and state constitutions give the government.
Hmm.....
Interstate commerce seems to clearly cover wrapping stuff in cardboard and shipping it across state lines.
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Seems like another avenue for federal govt. overreach.
That was supposed to basically mean states couldn't restrict commerce across states with punitive taxes, etc......but has been wildly misused over the years to give the Feds power they never should have had.
Re: Wrong. (Score:2)
The constitution doesn't enumerate any powers to stop me from dumping all my garbage on your lawn, either.
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Of course it doesn't.
The constitutions grant specific powers and roles to the governments, not individuals.
I'm not the most knowledgable, but didn't you take basic civics classes in school?
However, we DO vote in lawmakers, and on state and local levels, they do make and are charged with making laws, making things like dumping on neighbors yards illegal.
Re: Wrong. (Score:2)
Maybe you should review your own ignorant comments, then.
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You gay for george washinton people need to fucking kill yourselves.
Our entire legal system has been subverted so the only thing you're doing now is standing in the way until you die.
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Why would I talk to a local traffic cop about Federal constitutional powers, etc?
I deal with him on LOCAL issues....and frankly, I don't know that a traffic cop gives a rats ass about how I dispose of my trash in my trash can and not bothering to recycle things.
If we're having a conversation, its likely something involving a driving infraction which I try to avoid.
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'Externalities' is a black box of magic where people put all kinds of fudge factors needed to justify their policy proposals, which are often driven by ideology more than science. The concept generally speaking is reasonable, but long-solved with previous clean water and clean air acts.
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You forgot the 'sarcasm' tag at the end of your comment. Also, hahaha, you're very funny.
More than what? (Score:2)
25% more than what? And what does this have to do with packaging? Surely they're not saying that the average household is throwing out half a tonne of cardboard in six weeks?
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25% more than what?
25% more trash than they dispose of during periods that aren't between Thanksgiving and New Years.
And what does this have to do with packaging? Surely they're not saying that the average household is throwing out half a tonne of cardboard in six weeks?
They are saying half a ton more trash, but didn't actually specify cardboard (that is implied, but not stated). Whether it's true, I don't know, but that's what they said, and they would be in a position to know.
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Surely they're not saying that the average household is throwing out half a tonne of cardboard in six weeks?
They are staying the average home disposes of 5000 lbs (2.5 tons) of trash in six weeks.
Which is complete bullcrap.
A quick Google search brings up several references that say American generate about 6 pounds of trash per day. So a 4 person household, over 6 weeks, would generate 4*6*6*7 = 1008 lbs, or about half a ton.
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you forgot the extra 25%
Nope. TFA says 1000 lbs is an extra 25%. Which means the base is 4000 lbs. So base+extra = 5000 lbs.
I take my garbage bin to the curb every week. It has never, not once, weighed a thousand pounds.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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In my town my trash and recycling are picked up the same day, by the SAME TRUCK. So I just don't bother anymore.
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Same here. Why bother when it looks like the "recycling" is going to the dump just like the non-recyclables....
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You know that those trucks (should...) have dividers so they can keep stuff separate...
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I'm training my mushrooms to eat LDPE as well as cardboard.
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This comment very much reminded me of a rant I had when I saw a flier on local recycling being handed out at some neighborhood event. So yeah, 90% of the non-cardboard things you've been habitually putting in the recycling bin? Might as well just toss it in the trash and not even try.
What bothers me even more, though I'll admit its a local issue, is that we have divided recycling bins. So instead of one bin for everything, that bin has a divider down the middle. So one side takes that cardboard, if it fits
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Honestly about the only thing I can confidently recycle anymore is flattened cardboard from Amazon. They say that they'll take plastics 1-7 but they have to be spotlessly clean, dry, and they really only want bottles. That spotless #3 blister pack? No can do. That soap refill bottle? Better use 20 gallons of water to make sure there is absolutely no residue left. Metal cans are OK, but only if you can remove the label, and most particularly the glue used to attach it. Glass bottles? Turns out they actually can't recycle those, so they grind them into pebbles they line the road at the dump with, but they're running out of road to pave.
Our hauler recently announced the imposition of a $10 handling charge for recycling and included helpful tips like wash your bottles and cans in the dishwasher and be sure to use the drying feature. Seems like the Uber model has come to recycling (socialize the costs, privatize the profits). Sorry, but that's the kind of stuff I expect to be done at scale by the provider. They also announced that they may start charging (fining) people even more if there are any problems with the stuff in their bin.
Cardboard with any food residue, no matter how small, is contaminated and can't be salvaged. Cardboard with certain coatings, which may or may not be obvious, can't be salvaged. So yeah, our bin is 95% Amazon cardboard. If you tell me you can't handle that anymore I'll just return the bin and save the $10 surcharge and avoid the risk of being fined.
The sad thing is, we really want to be able to recycle. But we don't have two hours a week and unlimited free water/electricity to help some company make 25 cents off our trash.
That's the problem. They want you to do all the work for free and for the most part it's wasted effort. If they want me to recycle more then they need to make stuff actually recycleable and sort it out on their end otherwise it's all just going in the same bin.
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Can the reuse the boxes? (Score:2)
Pick up collapsed used boxes when they drop off?
I honestly do not care if my box is worn and frayed.
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Worn boxes do not offer good protection when they are thrown from the van.
The math doesn't add up. (Score:5, Interesting)
A thousand pounds extra, over five weeks.
Two hundred EXTRA pounds of packaging, per week, for a family.
I buy a lot of stuff off of Amazon, and I might toss as much as ten pounds of cardboard and other packaging per week, on a busy week.
It sounds like they're overestimating by a factor of five ore more, probably closer to a full order of magnitude.
Look outside on the your next recycling pickup day. Does every house have a completely full-to-the-brim recycling bin, every week? There's your answer.
The other thing is that they're treating the amount that family would discard as completely "new" recycling, when a lot of that cardboard and packaging would be created, no matter who the end-user is. I just got a new radiator for my car from Amazon - that cardboard would be used no matter if I bought it, or if Joe's Car Repair took the shipment.
This could become a carbon sink (Score:2)
All recycling centers have a paper and cardboard collection. Instead of trying to recycle these materials into new cardboard, shred it and retort it in the absence of air to produce charcoal. When this is mixed with garden or agricultural soil, it improves the soil while keeping the carbon in place for a long time. We would be growing pulpwood trees, making cardboard packaging, and then sequestering the carbon rather than keeping it in play through combustion or turning into landfill methane.
business opportunity: Telephone poles (Score:2)
Seriously, telephone poles could be made from recycled plastic, possibly combined with cardboard to make them lighter, and "behave" like wood poles for workers to climb. Look around--in many areas, the telephone poles are in sad shape. All it would take is a few states (cough California and NY) to mandate using recyclables in their poles, and the rest will follow.
It's about time for reusable ones (Score:2)
A dozen sizes that you can collapse after use, so that you can put a bunch of them on the porch for the driver to retrieve them when he comes with the next one(s).
After all, that system worked for milk-bottles for 100 years in dozens of countries in the world and that without computers, barcodes and NFCs.
Carbon Sequestering (Score:3)
Bury it, don't recycle. Trees took CO2 out of the atmosphere to make that cardboard, so putting it in the ground will trap it for a bit longer.
If more companies use recycled cardboard and paper (Score:2)
no matter what the price, we would have more demand for recycled cardboard an paper, leading to more recycling, more efficient recycling, and innovative ways to deal with contaminants.
As things stand now, as soon as avaiability and/or price of recycled materials goes in an undesired direction for companies, they will switch to paper/cardboard made from new raw materials, instead of recycled. This goes not only for amazon and boxes. Think fast food wrapings, toilet paper, hand paper towels, wc seat covers, a
I've taken to (Score:2)
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I recycle mine... (Score:2)
I've discovered that Amazon boxes and shipping envelopes can very easily be reused - my collectors frequently receive their art in reused Amazon padded mailers. The larger boxes can frequently be broken down into sheet cardboard and wrapped around a painting of arbitrary size. Pro-tip: the adhesive mailing label comes off rather easily when heated with a hair dryer.
Even though I've been selling art for several years, because of the ease of recycling, the only shipping materials I've had to buy were box
It's ... cardboard (Score:2)
Externalised costs (Score:2)
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That's not how capitalism works...
If you spend money on trying to save the environment while your competitor doesn't, then you're going out of business due to higher costs.
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Its all just words. The constant signalling looks dishonest for a reason. Its because only dishonest people do it. I know, I know... you think its only you being dishonest and nobody can prove it... but we dont have to... because its not just you... its 99% of you.
Actions speak. Words dont.
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I do it myself. I've been driving EVs for years and wouldn't buy a fossil car. I re-use bags as much as I can, I look for energy efficient products (easier thanks to EU labelling), I use recycled paper. I recharge my batteries rather than using disposable ones. Parts of my current computer date back to around 2007. I've started eating fake meat. Take the train instead of flying where I can.
Oh and I switched my energy (gas and electricity) to suppliers that offer renewable only packages. Well, my gas is only
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I think most people are for this, but it falls within their priorities thusly:
1. Save Money
2. Save the environment
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Unless there is consumer demand for saving the environment.
Much consumer demand is for "environmental theater".
For instance, glass is recycled in most areas, despite using more resources than making new glass. Since glass is inert, there is no benefit to recycling it other than "saving landfill space", which is a problem that doesn't actually exist.
If A costs more than B, it likely is consuming more resources and is worse for the environment.
If you want to help the environment, be a cheapskate. I don't recycle glass bottles, plastic drink bottles, or aluminum sod
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Nations that try to out pace "consumer demand" by spending tax payers money soon run out of tax payers money.
I don't think this is necessarily true. Even in the US there are, and have been for many years, all sorts of subsidies intended to help industries start up or weather periods that would otherwise make them insolvent. We've not run out of money ever. Some of those funds came from taxes some we just conjured from thin air.
In any case the idea that that shouldn't be done is very short sighted. You can't stand up an entire automotive industry, for example, in a short span of time. If a country lets theirs die
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Re:Economic crisis in the viability of recycling.. (Score:4, Insightful)
"economic crisis in the viability of recycling in the U.S." that's retarded argument, recycling is about saving the environment, not making more money...
So make it cheaper to recycle a box than make a brand new one.
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Which will be passed on to consumers! And the one thing the American people are suffering the most of is a dearth of cheap and easy shopping on Amazon. Every year Americans are bankrupted and lose their homes as their budget buckles under the increased cost of fire hazard USB wallchargers, counterfeit designer jeans, expired vitamins of questionable origin and poorly made knick knacks.
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fire hazard USB wallchargers, counterfeit designer jeans, expired vitamins of questionable origin and poorly made knick knacks.
So that's your order history ... what's your point?
You seriously think you can dismiss Amazon as some fly by night retailer?
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Understandable, that is insane.
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Dry? WTF if it rains after you put the stuff out?
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Oh dear, here we go again.
You live in a cardboard box?
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You live in a cardboard box?
Wikkelhouse [designingbuildings.co.uk]
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So yes in the USA since houses are square, with four sides and a top and bottom they are a box and being filled with cardboard they are a cardboard box.
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