Uber Loses $1.4 Billion in Value After Acknowledging Thousands of Sexual Assaults (siliconvalley.com) 76
"Uber's stock market value fell by $1.4 billion Friday, on the heels of the company's release of a safety report revealing that 3,000 incidents of sexual assaults took place during its U.S. rides in 2018," reports the Bay Area News Group:
On Thursday evening, Uber released its long-awaited safety study, which revealed that the company received 3,045 reports of sexual assaults in its rides in 2018, and 2,936 such incidents in 2017. Those figures included 235 reports of rape in 2018, up from 229 in 2017, and thousands of other assaults ranging from unwanted touching, kissing or attempted rape. Between 2017 and 2018, the company said it averaged about 3.1 million rides in the U.S. each day.
Uber is not the only ride-hailing company grappling with safety issues, though. Earlier Thursday, its top rival, Lyft, was sued by 20 women alleging they were raped or sexually assaulted by Lyft drivers.
In a statement on Twitter following the safety report's release Thursday, Uber Chief Executive Dara Khosrowshahi pledged to take further measures to protect the safety of both passengers and drivers.
The editorial boards of two Silicon Valley newspapers said the report seems to be an attempt "to confront legitimate problems head-on and transparently," asking how the figures compare to those for taxicabs and applauding Uber for instituting tighter background checks on drivers and adding more safety features to Uber's app.
"But it also must acknowledge that these safety issues should have been anticipated. Entrepreneurs aren't doing themselves -- or their industry -- any favors when they fail to anticipate problems and only act on consumer issues after the fact."
Uber is not the only ride-hailing company grappling with safety issues, though. Earlier Thursday, its top rival, Lyft, was sued by 20 women alleging they were raped or sexually assaulted by Lyft drivers.
In a statement on Twitter following the safety report's release Thursday, Uber Chief Executive Dara Khosrowshahi pledged to take further measures to protect the safety of both passengers and drivers.
The editorial boards of two Silicon Valley newspapers said the report seems to be an attempt "to confront legitimate problems head-on and transparently," asking how the figures compare to those for taxicabs and applauding Uber for instituting tighter background checks on drivers and adding more safety features to Uber's app.
"But it also must acknowledge that these safety issues should have been anticipated. Entrepreneurs aren't doing themselves -- or their industry -- any favors when they fail to anticipate problems and only act on consumer issues after the fact."
Re:There is nothing to feat (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:1)
Usually it's Albert Einstein too. (Score:2)
Or a Marx brother.
Re: There is nothing to feat (Score:2)
"43% of quotes attributed to Arthur, King of Britain, were in fact said by Napoleon." -- Julius Caesar
Let's put that in perspective (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Let's put that in perspective (Score:5, Funny)
They'll make it up in volume though.
They actually will (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1)
In hindsight (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
True, but, the Uber business plan is just a slight variation of the traditional taxi industry. In it's eagerness to "revolutionize", Uber failed to adequately safeguard for all the known passenger safety issues the traditional taxi industry faces. At best, Uber was sloppy. More likely: they were aware of the probabilities, accepted the risk and went ahead anyways.
Re: (Score:1)
likely: they were aware of the probabilities, accepted the risk and went ahead anyways.
I understand. In socialist capitalism this is called "externality [wikipedia.org]".
Re: (Score:2)
At least when it comes to driving drunken people home Uber is more like a whitewashing of the pirate taxis that existed long before this. Somebody knows somebody who's out driving tonight, the full range from buddy driving to acquaintances of acquaintances to dedicated groups to cars trying to get pickups from closing clubs. Lots of people were cool with that level of safety, despite being more risky than an official cab. Should Uber be allowed to operate that way? Eh. But I doubt they've actually made it w
Re: (Score:2)
... despite being more risky than an official cab.
What is the basis for this assertion?
Re: In hindsight (Score:2)
I would like to know how these numbers compare to other traditional taxi services nationally, and any nation wide company for that matter. Truthfully, with a large number of people (thousands) involved in any enterprise that operates 24/7 even a small percentage will be represented by tens if not hundreds examples of malfeasance. While any number is certainly unacceptable, at the same time it may be unavoidable. It's just that Uber is a large single entity and in the spotlight versus say as an example, hosp
Re: (Score:2)
anything "coulda shoulda woulda" been anticipated.
Sure, but this specific thing not only should have been, but was predicted very early. Uber doewn't do background checks for drivers. Obviously, there will be issues. What Uber needed from the start was a robust system for dealing with criminal drivers - sexual assaults, robberies, etc - beyond merely cooperating with the police. A system where a customer can, through the app, say that their driver attacked or threatened them, and have the police meet the driver a few minutes later.
It takes work, but it
Re: (Score:2)
My question is this less or more as a percentage or rides than taxis? Out of 3.1 million rides per day it works out to 0.0003% chance per ride. Assaults happen I am sure they happen in taxis, trains, buses, lifts from friends. If are going to be rational about it need to have a comparison.
Re: (Score:3)
Do you believe that "how often it happens with taxis" has a bearing on Uber's duty to assist riders in promptly reporting crimes to the local authorities?
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
How about, hire the cheapest, don't be surprised when you get the worst. What ever could be problematic of hiring anyone with any criminal record to pick up young women alone at night, what could possibly go wrong. How accurate are the ID checks, do they even check criminal records or is it just more cheap drivers no price to low, no morality to low.
The reason why taxis were regulated in the first place, lots of criminals thought is was a great business to target passengers at their most vulnerable and henc
gigs (Score:1)
Numbers (Score:5, Informative)
There's also the instances where drivers have video recordings of passengers threatening to report them for crimes which didn't occur [nypost.com], or in other cases where the passenger assaults the driver [youtube.com]. Uber is not the police and is horribly unequipped to even be able to determine credibility of any of these. If they aren't immediately reporting them to the police that's a far bigger issue. The kinds of people who do commit those types of assaults don't quit at one and leaving them free to victimize others when it could be stopped is serious problem and the kind of people who would make a false report about something like this need to a serious talking to about doing something like that.
Re: (Score:3)
From your khq.com link:
At the time, Ramos Islas was a driver for Uber and authorities say he raped the woman after driving her to her apartment.
Re: (Score:2)
Whoopi Goldberg is claiming that isn't rape-rape.
Re:Numbers (Score:5, Insightful)
I would imagine it's in Uber's best interest to eliminate such cases from inclusion in their numbers, but it seems like a lot of worst cases of sexual assault [dnainfo.com] come from people who only claim to be Uber drivers [khq.com], but aren't real Uber drivers [sky.com].
Maybe Uber or Lyft cars should have lighted signs mounted on top, or big lettering on the side showing the company name, phone number, licensing information, and occasionally rate and pricing information as required by local laws. This would prevent people from getting into the wrong car by accident or limit people from pretending to be drivers. We would need a common term to refer to all of these cars and companies, something short and easy to remember. Off the top of my head something like "Taxi" should work.
How can an Uber criminal get away with it? (Score:3)
Because every Uber driver and rider is signed up as an account in the system, as is the location and route of every ride taken, how does either a rogue driver or rider expect to get away with a crime?
In medallion cabs, there is no relationship between driver and rider, a lot of transactions are with cash, and the company has no way of knowing who rode at a given time and what the route was. That is why if you leave somethung in a medallion cab, it's gone for good, and when a medallion driver is found dead in an alley, there is no way of identifying the perpetrator.
Re: (Score:2)
BS! Well taxi companies might not know your name but where I live all taxis have cameras and 24/7/365 GPS logging.
Plus you'd be surprised at how many dumb perps phone up for the cab and their mobile number is saved onto the job.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics (Score:5, Interesting)
3,000 assaults in 1,131.5 Million chances for assault to occur sounds. That's 0.0003% chance of something happening in a given ride.
How do these numbers compare to cabs, or the world as a whole?
Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (Score:5, Insightful)
3,000 assaults in 1,131.5 Million chances for assault to occur sounds. That's 0.0003% chance of something happening in a given ride.
How do these numbers compare to cabs, or the world as a whole?
Exactly. These numbers are meaningless without some context. Also, it appears that 49% of the cases were passengers attacking the drivers. But, like you, I'd like to know the stats on traditional taxis, and other ride-share companies, so we have something to compare.
Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (Score:5, Informative)
How do these numbers compare to cabs,
What do you mean, how do these numbers compare to cabs? These are cabs! Uber is a cab company. They can call themselves whatever they want, but they run a cab service.
The rider contacts the company to have one of their cabs pick them up at a specified location and be driven to a new location in exchange for payment. That's how cabs work.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Thank you. Wish I could mod you up.
Just shows how the silicon valley brainwashing works.
That is not contested. (Score:2)
The difference is, that Uber is a more anti-social version of a cab service, where everyone is an anonymous object that requires no empathy or social behavior, just like psychopaths see everyone, because it was created by such types.
And that mindset is the fertile soil and on which assholery grows. See: The Internet.
Re:That is not contested. (Score:4, Informative)
The difference is, that Uber is a more anti-social version of a cab service, where everyone is an anonymous object.
This is exactly backward.
A regular medallion taxi is an anonymous transaction.
With Uber, the driver and passenger can see each other's identity and reputation before agreeing to the transaction.
Re: (Score:3)
The traditional medallion cab system in my Medium City has had an app for more than 10 years that texts you driver & vehicle identification information and arrival time. That ties the ride directly back to the employee record.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The difference is, that Uber is a more anti-social version of a cab service, where everyone is an anonymous object that requires no empathy or social behavior, just like psychopaths see everyone, because it was created by such types.
Spotted the cabdriver whose million-dollar medallion turned into a paperweight!
Re: (Score:2)
There are some differences in how they operate - how drivers are hired, how passengers call cabs, driver and passenger reviews etc. It would be interesting to know if any of that results in a difference in assault rate.
Re: (Score:1)
As you are perfectly aware, but chose to ignore in favor of supporting the "Uber is evil!" Slashdot meme, he meant "traditional" taxis, i.e. the ones were thefts, assaults, and rapes by drivers routinely occurred long before Uber and Lyft came into being, and would keep right on occurring if Uber and Lyft went out of business tomorrow.
The diff
Re: (Score:2)
If I had increased verbosity and added the word 'traditional' before 'cab' would you have any thing to actually add to the conversation other than being pendantic?
I don't think anyone here was confused about what I meant.
Re: Lies, damned lies, and statistics (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
The most interesting facts from a shareholder's perspective aren't really how many happen, or even how they compare to taxis, but how transparent the process is. If Uber puts more or less effort into hiding them, that's going to affect their potential liability.
Re: (Score:2)
My city of 423,000 had 475 reported rapes in 2018.
I guess that makes you 4x more likely to get raped here than in an Uber.
Also left out of this out of context scaremongering is how many potential sexual assaults were *prevented* by someone being easily able to hail a ride where they are vs. some other less convenient transportation, walking in/though a bad area, accepting a ride from some dubious person, etc.
I mean I guess we're supposed to hate Uber because the founder was a dick, they bent rules, etc, but
Re: (Score:2)
Precisely. Some people want to pretend that traditional taxis were driven by saints and angels, and that for some reason evil companies like Uber and Lyft swept in and took the world by storm through some Silicon Valley voodoo, despite their vehicles being driven by monsters and devils.
Uber and Lyft are popular because their customers
Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (Score:5, Insightful)
Some people want to pretend that traditional taxis were driven by saints and angels
Has anyone taken a cab ride where the credit card reader wasn't broken?
but the ride-sharing concept is here to stay,
Cab companies could have done all of the online hailing, enter a destination, etc stuff a decade ago, but they didn't.
Re: (Score:3)
Not only the "broken" credit card reader (which you don't learn about until you and your luggage are already in the taxi), but I've also had the pleasure of paying by credit card on a taxi ride, and then seeing an additional charge by a different cab company (same city, but the day after I flew out) appear on my monthly credit card bill.
They were clever. The amount of money was about the same as a standard taxi ride, so it would be easy
Re: (Score:1)
Has anyone taken a cab ride where the credit card reader wasn't broken?
All the time. I use a combination of traditional cabs and Uber. I don't remember the last time I was in a cab that the credit card machine didn't work. Although taxi drivers in Baltimore seem to have a major issue with credit cards. I had two cab drivers decide to not charge me rather than deal with a credit card.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not broken. It's "broken". As in "Pay me cash under the table".
Once I get half out the door it's suddenly working again.
Re: (Score:2)
Some people want to pretend that traditional taxis were driven by saints and angels
Has anyone taken a cab ride where the credit card reader wasn't broken?
I've ridden cabs in several places, from cities as large as New York to as small as Nashville and Huntsville. Never had that issue.
Re: (Score:2)
I never rode a cab that had a credit card reader ...
Perhaps you could pay in Paris with a CC, but if so, I did nit notice.
Re: (Score:3)
Some people want to pretend that traditional taxis were driven by saints and angels
Has anyone taken a cab ride where the credit card reader wasn't broken?
Did it yesterday. I don't think I've ever been in a cab where the credit card reader was broken. Of course, I mostly only take cabs when traveling internationally, in areas that don't have Uber/Lyft.
but the ride-sharing concept is here to stay,
Cab companies could have done all of the online hailing, enter a destination, etc stuff a decade ago, but they didn't.
Indeed they could, and should, have done it.
Re: (Score:2)
Who's going to fund yet another such company if the two premier companies went out of business?
Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (Score:5, Informative)
>
Uber and Lyft are popular because their customers found them far better than traditional taxis, which remains true to this day.
People ride Uber because it's cheaper than taxis. Uber is able to be cheaper than taxis because they ignore local labor and taxi laws and subsidize the rides through massive losses made up through VC and investor money. If Uber actually tried to make a profit you would either have no riders because the fares would be so high, or no drivers because the pay would be so low.
Re: (Score:2)
I almost always ask how the drivers like driving for Uber or Lyft because of the various pay issues and gripes you read about.
Most are pretty frank, they have some gripes, but none of them say they're willing to give it up.
I used to drive an actual taxi... (Score:2)
Now, the passengers are all identified by Uber with at least a name and credit card numb
Re: anyone who can fill out the online application (Score:2)
Actually, no. Both Uber and Lyft do real background checks before allowing drivers on their platforms. They also require vehicle registration information before authorizing a specific vehicle for use.
There is a real conversation to be had around the issue of 'what criminal background should be a disqualification,' but it's not realistic to dispute that they are checking.
Full disclosure: My application to drive for Uber was declined because of my criminal background.
Boomers WERE right! (Score:3)
Re: Boomers WERE right! (Score:1)
Your parents told you never to take a taxi? That's certainly unusual...
Is that true, legally? (Score:2)
"But it also must acknowledge that these safety issues should have been anticipated. Entrepreneurs aren't doing themselves -- or their industry -- any favors when they fail to anticipate problems and only act on consumer issues after the fact."
If they anticipate a problem and then don't do anything about it, they're negligent. If they can prove that they were too dumb to think of a problem, then they can get away with fixing it after it becomes obvious to everyone.
Regulations (Score:2)
Uber is blind to competitors (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Location (Score:2)
IQ by ULP (Score:2)
Let's see, Ringworld has an inhabited area 3 million times that of planet Earth, so Ringworld Uber would be roughly 3 million times more troubled (not even taking into account a sudden outbreak of "yam jammers" due to a contraband, synthetic narcotic that recruits tree-of-life receptors to compel the messy reproductive process without triggering metamorphosis).
Re: (Score:2)
Christ, I didn't decrement the middle 5. What a moron! But who even spotted this, anyway.