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Businesses The Almighty Buck

WeWork's Sudden Fall Reveals the Cracks in the Startup Economy (theoutline.com) 47

The venture capital firm First Round Capital conducts an annual "State of Startups" survey that gets passed around widely in Silicon Valley. Its 2019 findings, published this week, are grim. From a report: Over two-thirds of startup founders, more than ever before, believe that we are in a tech "bubble." Sixty-five percent of founders believe that it's going to be harder for them to raise money next year, up 20 percent from last year's survey. Across the country on Wall Street, there are those who share these entrepreneurs' new pessimism. In a note, Bank of America's research division suggested that recent shifts in the market could produce a lot of pain and "volatility" in the coming year.

Let's call it the "WeWork effect." For some context, new companies, especially startups from Silicon Valley, were able to raise substantially more money from private investors in the past decade than they were in previous years. This continued to be the case even as these companies, like Uber and WeWork, got bigger and bigger, approaching the size at which they'd traditionally need make a public stock offering in order to raise the necessary cash to keep growing. As Bloomberg columnist Matt Levine frequently says, "private markets are the new public markets," meaning that these companies are able to tap the same kinds of large investors as they would if they were publicly-traded without actually going public.

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WeWork's Sudden Fall Reveals the Cracks in the Startup Economy

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    There are a lot of people that would be suckered into investing into these money pits if they were traded publicly. A lot of people would likely lose their life savings.
  • by flyingfsck ( 986395 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:14PM (#59542158)
    WeWork didn't do anything special - they just provided office space to small businesses, same as hundreds of other places that do the exact same thing. The startup hype didn't work, since there wasn't anything to hype up.
    • by spun ( 1352 )

      Nothing innovative in most startups. It's just "We'll do X, but on the Internet, and with low paid contractors!"

      • by bickerdyke ( 670000 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:31PM (#59542262)

        Wait! Are you saying I could have gotten my Pizza delivered before there was GrubHub?

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        It is no cracks, it is gaping chasms of fraud and corruption. The big financiers who are the hidden hedge fund manager know exactly what they are doing. Invest heavily in some 'MARKETABLE' company, and then start marketing and hyping it. Paying for planted propaganda story (making use of the corrupt deep state and shadow government crap journalist network) and just hype the fuck out of the company.

        Keep it financially afloat whilst pushing and rabbiting on about growth and then IPO and cash in and watch it

  • by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:15PM (#59542170)

    soon parted.

    WeWorks had all the signs of impending implosion, and VC's were still pouring in the money, despite the "losses".

    Looks like most of the money went to the founder, and his wife, who were buying up real estate, and renting it back to the company.

  • by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:16PM (#59542172)
    It means bullshit vaporware and silly nonsense ideas won't be as readily funded. WeWork is a dumpster fire of a business model and they and their investors deserve everything that is happening to them. Regardless of the economic conditions, solid business models and real innovations that actually add value will always find a way to get funded. It happened in the aftermath of the dot com bubble burst and it will happen again the next time tech experiences a correction, whenever that actually happens.
  • Failure (Score:4, Insightful)

    by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:23PM (#59542218)
    I’ve heard plenty of different rates given and no doubt some of it depends on context, but I’ve heard some claim as many or more than three in four new businesses fail within a decade. If that’s to be believed then only two-thirds I’d startups having a harder time getting funding would suggest some are still over-funded.

    I wouldn’t be worried if investments in Silicon Valley tech companies fall off unless investors aren’t finding other companies to invest in either. I don’t think that’s the case and with the economy doing well at the moment I would imagine that there are simply more and other investment opportunities that look more attractive.
  • by sdinfoserv ( 1793266 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:34PM (#59542272)
    I think it’s more a millennial realization that the purpose of a “business” is to make profit. Eventually the VC’s demand ROI..
    Read "The Goal" by Goldratt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
    These other “noble” causes are just BS if the company is non-sustainable, aka profitable. And most of the “new businesses” are not sustainable. Uber, Peloton, WeWork and a bunch of others are burning boatloads of cash. Meaning, in a capitalist society, they’re destined to go byebye if they can't right the financials.
    • But Amazon lost money for years and now they make a lot of money! Thus, every startup eventually makes money.

      • by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:51PM (#59542346)
        Amazon did lose money but when you looked at it compared to their total revenue as well as their continued growth it really didn’t matter.

        If you have a company that does $200 billion in business that year a billion dollar loss isn’t too meaningful, especially if you grew that revenue by a good amount. When a startup or young company is doing that it likely means that the company is just reinvesting all earnings back into the company. If you’re a company like Uber that’s losing money like that on only a few billion in revenue then there’s a big problem even if you’re growing. That quickly turns into good money after bad for some investors. But it’s their money.
      • by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @03:46PM (#59542696) Journal

        Actually, since 2003 [dazeinfo.com], Amazon had 3 quarters of loss - it's been profitable nearly its entire life. It took about 5 years of pretty minimal losses before it turned the corner - and it's well up since then. AMZN lost about $3 billion cumulative before it turned the corner into profitability (5 years in), and then by 2010 it had recouped all losses and was now "in the black".

        If WeWork followed the same trajectory, they would have become profitable by 2015, and would be close to recouping all historical losses at this point. Rather than still hemorrhaging more than a billion a year. Uber as well.

        This is simply irrational exuberance over growth-at-any-cost finally waking up with a raging hangover - and realization that there never WILL be a corner to turn to profitability.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 )
      Peloton actually has a great business model [investopedia.com]. They charge a very high price for the initial purchase of the bike (which, despite the ridicule of the unwashed masses on Twitter, their target market can and does readily pay). Even better, they have long-term recurring revenue by forcing their users to subscribe to relatively expensive live content. The whole model is pretty high margin. Most importantly, they're built an incredibly passionate user base over the last few years, which should help prevent chu
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        I agree about Peloton. Getting some of the key positive experiences of a popular type of gym class in the convenience of your own home is a value model that does make sense. People already do spend $50 to $150 dollars per month to be a member of a gym, usually paying a similar sized fee up front. If you have a six figure income, the gym membership is an okay expenditure is you go at least once per week, and probably a good deal if you go twice per week. A Peloton bike is not all that different, only a b

      • I'm not sure I buy into the Peloton business model is a success. Operations burned through $110M in 2019 leaving a net loss of (c) $200M. Since it's an operational loss, if customer acquisition slows, losses will accelerate. That makes sustainability questionable. Once the "hot fad" cools, we'll how good they really are at making money. Forbes is bearish: https://www.forbes.com/sites/p... [forbes.com]
  • by captbollocks ( 779475 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:40PM (#59542296)

    Germany raised something like 20 or $30bn with govt bonds with a negative interest rate of -0.5%. They all sold in record time.

    What this means is there is shitloads of money not earning anything.

    The amount that goes into VC is tiny in comparison so there will not be a shortage of vc cash for years or even decades, unless interest rates start climbing which is unlikely.

    • What I take from this is that some people are very optimistic about the stability of Germany, but very pessimistic about the economy in general. Also, it seems like Germany would be foolish not to park some of the proceeds from that sale in US bonds and pocket the difference in interest.

  • but these are likely scams, either to raid pensions or to do 2008 style credit default swap scams.

    For the pension scam the trick is to get public pensions to invest in these Unicorns. Pensions move slower than individual investors, allowing an investor to get out before the Unicorn collapses and leave the pension (and the taxpayer) holding the bag.

    As for CDSs, we all know in 2008 the economy collapsed when bad mortgages were bundled into phony investments. The laws preventing that were repealed (it w
    • Your naivety is charming, but...as current events show, even if who we elect is honest, if the un-elected don't go along - or for that matter, the party you seem to favor - voting doesn't matter. Truth doesn't matter, other than that pointing out the basic failures in human nature, including the ones you point out above. No elected official or group of them can -or ever has- change that.

      • first the wider margin we lose by the more the Establishment Goons think they can get away with.

        But here's the rub, if we win by about 5% then the Goons can't cheat. It's too obvious. As bad as things are we haven't gone full North Korea where the vote is really just a Census.

        And yeah, we can have elected officials change the system. Ranked Choice is a good place to start. And Mandatory Voting (it prevents Voter Suppression).

        Like any complex machine Democracy needs upgrades and improvements from
    • Sounds like another good reason to get rid of pensions and let employees manage or direct the management of their own retirement investment accounts, assuming of course that is what that person would like to do. I'm being a bit pithy there if you couldn't tell, but if this were a big enough problem it's only a mater of hiring a fiduciary investment adviser, or even a team of them if you wanted to be even more careful, to manage the pension funds.

      I suspect the real problem is that the pensions promised fa [businessinsider.com]
      • Didn't work. Employees don't have the resources to make that happen. In practice they just get picked apart by vulture capitalists and die penniless in the streets.
        • So are you agreeing that pensions should be dissolved in favor of employees gaining control over their own retirement investment accounts? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. Is it that the government won't let government employees have private retirement accounts because the government wants other private companies or individuals to be able to rob the pension funds of government employees? Are they Bond villains or something?

          But I think your argument is just plain wrong, because what prevents t
  • by BAReFO0t ( 6240524 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:59PM (#59542374)

    It is and was always as rigid and stable as an ateroid. Basically loosely packed ice and dust, flying too close to the sun, ans thrning into yours truly, vaporware.

    Because all those projects are so incredibly incredibly bad.
    They all consist of the same business model: Take something existing that is utteely mundane and has been solved loong ago, filter it through ten layers of Chinese telephone cargo cult paper, and add a "twist" that only and exclusively makes sense in this already mind-blowingly misguided alternate perception universe, that is not improving or innovating anything, and thartany idiot could have come up (and probably already did).
    Usually involving a "platform" or "community", aka a way to furn an entire market into your exclusice monopoly. And market participators into either your employees or your clients. Having them still do the work, while you just seat yourself in-between, taking a share. For nothing, really.
    Then hype and push it as if it was something entirely and completely new ... (*Microsoft has just entered the chat*) ... till kingdom come. Gotta catch em ALL!

    And after that, it *surprisingly* deflates like a soufflee ejected onto a moist winter mattress outside and shown a picture of Magaret Thatcher in lingerie.

    WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?

    Frankly, I think all those startups that inflate/deflate so quickly, are just cocaine-overconfident kids, falling for get-rich-quick delusions, driven by financial gamblers.
    No healthy business grows that quick. A healthy business is a *stable* business. Growing more over decades and centuries, than over months. And not being afraid of the reliable stabiliy of no growth at all, aka "stagnation", aka the healthy state of any sustained running process, including life, in this universe.
    IMHO, there is a direct relationship between speed of growth and speed of downfall.

    Want something to be proud of? Focus on a truly new, or at least great product, outside of any misguided paths. And not on "growth". Get your money from trusting clients. Not gamblers.
    And take your time. It'll be fun!

  • Cracks in the insane way that VCs fund companies, though... No plan for profitability? Growth without concern? Easy-to-replicate business model? Why toss even a dollar, let alone billions?
    • The law of large numbers, if a vc funds 10k startups and 9999 of them go bust but nr 10k is the next amazon/google etc they still have an roi and an ok wan at that, an unless they are kompkete idiots the will probably score better than that. And a long the way som weework type fonders got some free realestate/ other stuff from the fat cats so who loses apoart from onderpaied exvemploies wit stock options thstbare now wortless (not ideal but their fault for working atba startup and epaccepting options instr
  • AFAIHS it was a money laundering scam without much tech involved.
  • If you're wondering why public listings suck. With private stock you can avoid day traders, you can capture long term investors, you have more control over the buyers and sellers of your shares, and you can screw over your class B holders (employee grants) if the business ever has problems. Allowing important investors to pull out, and retaining those relationships for future startup attempts.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Cracks you say? Buy stocks in polyfill I say!
  • by hawguy ( 1600213 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @03:38PM (#59542672)

    Wework isn't a tech startup (even if they wanted people to think they were), so I'm not sure why their performance has any reflection on real tech startups.The lesson to be learned here is that investors can tell the difference between a real estate company and a tech company even if some VC firms pretend that they can't.

  • by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Friday December 20, 2019 @04:55PM (#59542884)

    One of the differences between the Second Dotcom Bubble and the First one is the presence of public cloud. Since these startups are starting from nothing, they're cloud-native, and can just pay Microsoft/Amazon/Google every month via the VC's credit card. That's very different from the First bubble where founders had to lay out massive sums for data centers, bandwidth, infrastructure and other on-prem extras. Second bubble startups are able to spend the VC money on the founders' extravagant lifestyle and zany office space...and that's where WeWork comes in. Just like the cloud, they can rent this expensive real estate in the middle of SF or NYC and get the preschool office pre-furnished with the option to rent more or less as needed.

    The cloud (IMO) allows startups with dumb or exploitative business models to hang around longer than they would before they have to IPO and be subject to public scrutiny. Remember that WeWork was cooking along with the CEO collecting rent from his own business before people started asking too many questions. This explains why there are 9 copies of the same business model still duking it out also...how many meal kits, product box subscription services, etc. are still out there after years of less-than-enthusiastic growth?

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