The High Cost of a Free Coding Bootcamp (theverge.com) 143
Students at Lambda School say the program hasn't delivered on its promise. From the report: Bethany Surber was sleeping on friends' couches and living out of her car when she first heard about Lambda School, a buzzy coding bootcamp that promised world-class instructors and a top-tier curriculum. Best of all, it wouldn't cost a cent -- at least not up front. The school encouraged students to defer tuition until they landed a stable job, then pay back a share of their income. Surber and her boyfriend, an instructor at the local community college, quickly started making plans. She'd quit her job as a patient services representative at the hospital in Tacoma, Washington, and they'd move in together while she took classes. Then, when she got a high-paying tech gig, she'd renovate his house, maybe take herself on a vacation. Lambda offered Surber a chance at a life she'd never had -- one of job opportunities, tech money, prestige. She'd watched as companies like Amazon and Microsoft changed the fabric of the Seattle area, bringing massive new developments and six-figure salaries that sucked talent from nearby Tacoma. Now, she finally had a chance to be part of that change.
From the beginning, however, the online class wasn't what Surber or her classmates had expected. The instructors changed week to week and often seemed to have no idea what the students had already covered. The curriculum advertised on the website never fully materialized. The online portal where they were supposed to find their homework assignments rarely matched up with what they were learning. Some of the changes were things Lambda students had requested. (The school prides itself on being incredibly responsive to user feedback.) But the constant state of flux proved difficult for first-time designers. By January 2020, six months into the program, Surber's group was in revolt. The program wasn't worth the money, they wrote in a letter to Lambda's leadership. They felt like test subjects in a lab. Many asked to get out of the income-sharing agreements (ISAs) they'd signed, which stipulated that they had to hand over 17 percent of their income once they started making $50,000 or more until their $30,000 tuition was paid off.
From the beginning, however, the online class wasn't what Surber or her classmates had expected. The instructors changed week to week and often seemed to have no idea what the students had already covered. The curriculum advertised on the website never fully materialized. The online portal where they were supposed to find their homework assignments rarely matched up with what they were learning. Some of the changes were things Lambda students had requested. (The school prides itself on being incredibly responsive to user feedback.) But the constant state of flux proved difficult for first-time designers. By January 2020, six months into the program, Surber's group was in revolt. The program wasn't worth the money, they wrote in a letter to Lambda's leadership. They felt like test subjects in a lab. Many asked to get out of the income-sharing agreements (ISAs) they'd signed, which stipulated that they had to hand over 17 percent of their income once they started making $50,000 or more until their $30,000 tuition was paid off.
"All students get access to free therapy" (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Err, $50k in SeaTac is poverty wages thanks to cost-of-living - that alone puts a big, fat damper on paying 17% (pre-tax or take-home? Either way that's gotta suck.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What's a for loop? (Score:4, Interesting)
My wife went to a C# one of these. She learned some Microsoft framework, and actually seemed to know enough to do at least something.
But then I found out she didn't know what a for loop is.
And the more we talked about it, the more I realized how weird the gaps were. These are classes for building apps, but they aren't programming classes. Maybe that's ok, as long as you don't expect the people who build these apps to know how to actually fix, debug, read, or write code. And yet: you can get a job. What a brave new world.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Kudos for her for embarking on that journey but that boot camp should be sued for false expectations.
Re: (Score:3)
Not really. Programming is ridiculously easy. It's so easy, in fact, that children can and do teach themselves. They taught themselves in the 1980's with virtually no resources beyond what came packed-in with their home micro.
How many people here taught themselves how to program before the age of 10? I'd venture to say almost everyone over 40.
Sorry. Any idiot can be a programmer. Many idiots are. It's just not that special.
Re: (Score:3)
Sorry. Any idiot can be a programmer. Many idiots are. It's just not that special.
Well, you got the middle part right.
Now sorting out design, long-term implications, structure, a style that makes sense, enforcing documentation, having to do what QA used to do (but that position doesn't exist in most places anymore, because "Agile!" and "Fail Forward!"), and knowing all the fun idiosyncrasies of a given language... those aren't skills that just any idiot can just run with, Ion Storm be damned.
Re: (Score:2)
Q.E.D.
Re: (Score:2)
Err.....what's that??
[BAEG]
Re:What's a for loop? (Score:5, Interesting)
Programming is ridiculously easy. It's so easy, in fact, that children can and do teach themselves. ... How many people here taught themselves how to program before the age of 10? I'd venture to say almost everyone over 40.
I think you have that backwards. The people with the desire and aptitude to program gravitated towards it on their own it in their youth. The other set of people can't do it and wouldn't have any interest in programming anyways.
A lot of people I've known went into CS because they liked playing video games. And then quit or failed because it was nothing like what they expected.
Re: (Score:2)
I've never had a student who just "can't do it". Some take a little longer than others, but every student "gets it" in well-under six weeks.
Some don't like it, sure, but that doesn't mean they can't do it. The learning curve my be steep, but it's very short.
Re: (Score:2)
With enough practice, I could learn to play a song on a piano, but I could never be a musician.
Re: (Score:2)
With enough practice, I could learn to play a song on a piano, but I could never be a musician.
That's only true if rock music, and other popular music forms, trigger you.
You could never be a studio musician who can play sessions for minimum wage, but you could be a famous star making millions of dollars.
You could never be a professional jazz musician at any pay level, of course.
Re: (Score:2)
It's a matter of where you set the bar. Everyone can draw. Some draw well. Few are in any danger of being displayed in a museum 100 years from now.
Many people play baseball as kids Even the kid that always got picked last played. Very few end up playing professionally.
There is value for people who likely will never be professional software developers to at least know the basics of it, but to pretend that for only $X, anybody can have an exciting high paying job as a software developer is just silly.
Re:What's a for loop? (Score:5, Insightful)
You seem to have drunk Taylor's cool aid. People are not interchangeable standard parts. People have differing aptitudes. There's nothing elitist about suggesting that some people draw better and a few much better while others code better and some much better. Still others have a gift for repairing machines. Some are dreadful at those tasks but given common ingredients they can produce a truly excellent meal.
There's a reason CASE tools hasn't taken over all software development.
The funny thing is, when we try to automate even the jobs generally considered low skill or no skill, it turns out to be a lot harder and more expensive than first thought by a wide margin. Remember how robotic whopper floppers were going to take over? Where are they now?
I'm not claiming that people can't learn or improve their skills, just that you can't teach aptitude. different people will be good at different things. The elitism doesn't come in until we decide that CEO gets 10 million a year and a golden parachute and the guy that makes the building presentable gets minimum wage and advice on how to apply for assistance.
Re: (Score:2)
There are many more very skilled software developers and janitors than there are very skilled CEOs in the US. The range of skills needed for CEO is much broader and more difficult to learn.
A single software developer (let alone a single janitor) who is modestly skilled really can't drive a large public company into the ground unless they are trying to do so and proper safeguards have not been put in place (that's where, BTW, the CEO - through their judgement in who they pick for executive staff and how the
Re: (Score:3)
How though do you explain CEOs that actually do drive the company directly into the iceberg still get their "performance bonus" and often have a new chair pulled out for them before the old company is even done sinking?
It seems there aren't a lot of vacant CEO positions due to not being able to find someone, so there seems to be plenty of supply to meet demand.
Based on the deadwood to be found in so many corporations IT and development staff, it's apparently not that easy to find the good developers and IT
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I don't think it will be possible to do a worse job than Carly Fiorina, HP CEO job. Or Donald Trump, bankrupting multiple casinos. And they were considered qualified.
Re: (Score:2)
See my comment about how much quicker and easier it is to determine if a software developer is "very skilled" in a given environment than to do the same for a CEO. In many cases, the board can't figure it out -- but they will not, and should not, go with "second best we can get" because that
Re: (Score:2)
Most developers I've worked with that were worth anything also, arguably, got most or all of their jobs through "connections". I.e., they were known to one or more people who were well trusted and skilled and those people recommended them.
I've gotten some jobs where there was no interview process in the conventional sense (in some cases I actually met and talked to people over lunch or even on-site, but they were selling the job to me) because I was well known to someone "inside" who themselves were highly
Re: (Score:2)
Absolute B.S. if it's really a CEO job (hint, the owner of a privately held company that cleans sewer pipes and has two employees is not a CEO except in name).
If you think that that a CEO (or similar position) is not critical to the success of a multi billion dollar publicly company with tens of thousands of employees or that just leaving the job "open" would have no impact you obviously don't know what a CEO does.
You are also missing the entire goal in some cases. Do you think Trump cared much about bankru
Re: (Score:2)
You skipped the question. Why is it that AFTER the CEO has steered directly for the iceberg... After as in it is already clear his performance in the given environment stank, they still pay out the "performance bonus".
It seems like every other day, we hear how businesses are complaining that they can't find enough good developers. Never heard that about CEOs.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, I answered your question - read it again. Among other reasons, getting a rep for treating you CEOs poorly is not a way to attract a new candidate and terminating them before having a new one to replace them with alarms customers, shareholders (i.e., the company owners), and employees. So, you often keep the old one around until you have a replacement -- including by cutting them a deal involving performance pay. Also, in many cases, their contract includes a performance bonus and if they met the criter
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, it might be a problem if the smoldering ruins of the company have a hard time hiring...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Preheat the oven to 350 (initialize variables), ingredients: flour sugar egg (initialize variables), Mix wet(beat eggs, add in melted butter), Mix dry(mix flour and sugar), combine (pour dry into wet while stirring).
The syntax is different, but a recipe is an algorithm. As are the directions on shampoo.
"Computers hard" scares people off, but almost anyone can learn to make a simple program, even if they will never pr
Re: (Score:2)
You probably have not worked with too many students then. Their is no discipline which has a 0 percent failure rate. And perhaps more to the point, The US military who has worked with millions of students over dozens of decades has found that some people cannot be taught. They have done enough work to convince me that no one can teach, at the very least, persons with an IQ under 80 to be an effective programmer.
Re: (Score:2)
I find all that ridiculously easy to do, yet I really, really doubt you could do it after six weeks.
Re: (Score:2)
In my experience, it takes less than two weeks to get the average student up to speed. I've *never* had a student still struggling by week 6.
That there are some things you can't learn to do effectively in that time doesn't seem relevant.
Re: (Score:2)
Then that must be a pretty low hump - and, therein lies the problem.
Re: (Score:2)
What can I say. It's not that difficult.
I've always said that the learning curve is steep, but very short.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure most people can learn the syntax of a programming language - it is not very hard. It's certainly easier than learning a spoken language.
Is that not more like reading? Something a significant percentage of Americans cannot even be taught? If like a decade of schooling cannot teach a kid to even read the language he speaks, what makes you think anyone can teach him the syntax of a programming language?
Re: (Score:2)
Again, I've never had a student with those problems. Either I'm the worst most amazing instructor or programming just isn't that difficult.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They don't even teach that in most modern "computer science" programs.
Re: (Score:2)
Knuth has been trying to write a textbook to teach it, but the subject keeps growing the more is written. Even his narrow approach that intentionally leaves a lot out is already more material than anybody is actually going to learn during a degree program, and he's having trouble finishing the work.
Re: (Score:2)
Well drat, I thought I was a super genius because I could code when I was a kid while the rest of my peers couldn't.
Your statement is half right.
Any Idiot can code especially as most programming language were made to make it easy to code. Kids can pick up coding and actually get really good at it.
However when you get into the industry you are working with a bunch of other people who had learned to code as a kid too. Your statement can be dealt with most other jobs.
A kid can draw, it doesn't make them an ar
Re: (Score:2)
How many people here taught themselves how to program before the age of 10? I'd venture to say almost everyone over 40.
I'm over forty, but when I was ten the bank downtown had the only computer and wouldn't let me anywhere near it. :D
Re: (Score:2)
I taught myself when I was 7. Everything I wrote when I was 7 was garbage. This was the era when home computers stored stuff on audio tapes. Programs were short enough to get them in print in a bookstore and type them in. "They taught themselves in the 1980's with virtually no resources beyond what came packed-in with their home micro." Nah, false. We taught ourselves with books and magazines.
Most of the stuff I wrote in my 20s was garbage, too. "Programming" isn't just about writing text that makes
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You might want to rethink your math. 2020 - 40 = 1980, just a few years after the introduction of PCs. Altair 8800 - 1975, $400 ($1,900.80 adjusted).
There were no grade school (5th grade) computer labs, so the parents would have had to pop the price.
Re: (Score:2)
How many people here taught themselves how to program before the age of 10? I'd venture to say almost everyone over 40.
I think you must have meant anyone under 40. Those of us over 50 would not have had hands-on experience with a computer before age 10
Re: (Score:2)
Kudos for her for embarking on that journey but that boot camp should be sued for false expectations.
Perhaps the school should be sued. But there also needs to be some expectation of common sense from the students. This woman agreed to pay $30k for something that is available for free on YouTube. If she needed more structure than YouTube provides, she could have taken a free course on Khan Academy or bought a coding book on Amazon for $20 and worked through it.
Re: (Score:2)
You've lost me on this one. You're saying that it's her fault because she should have known that the obvious scam was a scam?
I don't know that we ought to let scammers off the hook for running a scam too obviously.
(Is this something you picked up in China? It seems like a common attitude there.)
Re: (Score:2)
The difference between the school and YouTube was an expectation of some sort of curation, coherent course planning, and graded coursework designed to enhance understanding of the concepts. An expectation that the school clearly failed at.
It's quite clear that the school went out of it's way to create an expectation that it then failed to meet.
We won't have much of a society or economy if we set the default expectation at "everything is shit, everything is a scam".
Re: (Score:2)
But there also needs to be some expectation of common sense from the students. This woman agreed to pay $30k for something that is available for free on YouTube.
And lots of people pay hundreds of dollars for HVAC service calls when it often just needs 10 minutes and a $10 capacitor to completely fix the problem. People aren't born knowing everything, and plenty of unscrupulous folks will take advantage of that situation. You can't use Khan Academy to train yourself when you don't know such a thing exist
Of course it's hard (Score:3)
Coding (properly) is really hard, takes more than a boot camp to be proficient in it. Takes years of practice/mastery and tons of guidance on what programming/software engineering actually is.
Tell that to our politicians, who seem to think that programming is on the same level of difficulty as using a word processor or spreadsheet. You've got Joe Biden... one among many politicians... telling coal miners that it'll be OK when their jobs are eliminated because they can all learn to be programmers. Coal. Miners.This attitude is about as ignorant of what programming is as anything I've seen lately. They really do seem to think that anyone can be a professional programmer. They'd never say that abou
Re: (Score:2)
Somehow I suspect Joe Biden considers himself smarter than the average coal miner, and I suspect that attempting to teach Biden how to program at a professional level would be a horribly frustrating and, ultimately, unsuccessful venture.
I think coal miners can be retrained in other jobs, but I doubt that turning them into programmers is going to be a very successful venture in most cases.
On the other hand, if we could keep politicians busy writing programs, maybe they would be less dangerous...
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
You can find poor education anywhere really, it isn't solely the purview of something like these bootcamps.
I've been in IT now for 25 years, self taught and learned on the job the skills I needed to do the next job my employer required doing. Around 2011 I decided to get the bit of paper which now seemed to be almost mandatory for higher paying IT jobs - I signed up with the Open University for a degree course.
I immediately ran into problems - the Java modules of the course were using a version of Java tha
Re: What's a for loop? (Score:2)
On the other hand, the typical cider needs to be able to google a topic, find a code snippet and adjust some variables to fit it in their code.
Consider that a C# developer should be
Re: (Score:2)
Indentured Servitude (Score:5, Informative)
17 percent of a $50,000 salary is quite high, especially considering how much the government is going to take as well. According to this income tax calculator [smartasset.com], someone in Washington state with a gross income of $50,000 would make $41,800. The 17% due to the bootcamp would be $8500, bringing your net income down to $33,300. That's about $2800 a month to live off of. And the cost of the course is $30,000, so you're going to be paying for 3.5 years. Also, $30,000 for a 9 month online program seems extremely overpriced. For that price, you could just take computer science at a regular state school.
Re:Indentured Servitude (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, for a coding job you'd probably be better off doing an AS degree or BAS degree at a community college/tech school.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Definitely a better deal and higher quality. But then the students must have the money to pay for it up front.
That's true. However, there is a growing movement for making community college more affordable or even free. Here in Silicon Valley, several community colleges now offer two year's free tuition, plus extras like stipends for books, laptops, and bus passes.
Re: (Score:2)
The California University system AFAIK has always offered Free or nearly free tuition to community and jr colleges.
Re: (Score:2)
Can't speak for other states, but here in Florida at the former-community-college I work at, the state pays about 2/3 of the tuition for in-state residents. So a 3 credit class costs the student about $350 out of pocket, including lab fees, student life/activity fees, tech access fees, etc.
If you got through high school with a decent GPA then you qualify for Bright Futures scholarship, which is basically a free ride for an AA or AS degree, or about half a BA/BS from a state university.
And even if you had t
Re: (Score:2)
Which is the problem with economy and society.
If a young adult can get into the market with a million dollars upfront (being that they didn't blow it all). Can get themselves in a good living condition. A house, A car, enough money for emergency expenses. Without such worries, they can focus on their career and really work up the latter thus creating more with their life then the would without the million dollars.
Re: (Score:2)
For actual coding skills maybe.
For all of the other things - "soft skills" - at least some gen-ed is worth while. My most useful college course was technical communications - learning the formatting, layout, etc. for business communications, technical docs, etc.
And even for coding, working with others that you don't have a choice over, etc. is a good thing to be able to do.
Re: (Score:3)
The other thing to keep in mind
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that if the school is useless but you really do want to be a programmer, you will try again. If that second try actually works, you'll get that job and then the useless leech will demand it's 17%. They'll probably add insult to injury by counting them as one of their "successes" in the statistics.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is why I fail to feel very sorry for these people... it's like those who buy lots of things on credit without checking what the hell the terms are and how much they'll pay in the end because it's free here and now. Extremely exaggerated claims about what a 9 month online class will do for you with no reality checks. Before the class even begun it screams "these people are idiots, let's fleece them". My guess is that even if their tutoring claims were even half way true you wouldn't be able to turn the
Re:Indentured Servitude (Score:4, Informative)
The reality and why your numbers are off. The class cost is closer to $17k and the ISA is for two years. So in your example yes they would take a hit of having to pay back $8.5K a year but it would be for two years only.
The $30k is a max cap, so in the event your first job paid you $1 million you would have to pay them $30K and would be done with the ISA in one year.
Re: (Score:2)
That's ... actually quite reasonable, really.
Re: (Score:3)
"For that price, you could just take computer science at a regular state school."
Sure but you'd have to save up for it in advance or borrow the money and start paying interest right away, AND then attend for multiple years while not working full time.
I agree with you 100% that these are a scam, but if you could effectively cram a computer science degree into 9 months and owe 30k that you didn't need to pay up front, or even after graduation until you had a decent job then it wouldn't really be a bad deal.
So
Re: (Score:2)
It is also different from traditional trading programs, like the old ITT, and current for profit universities, who exist only to help students fill out student loan paperwork and take on massive debt with no concern if that debt can be paid. By the way even state schools participate in this scam.
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure about other states, but programs at the former-community-college (we offer a few 4 year degrees now, and by law can't be called a "community college". We're just "a college") I work for here in Florida DO get audited by the state for completion, employment and pay rates on our various vocational certificate (welding, etc) and AS degrees (nursing and other health fields, networking, programming, business).
And the state DOES have us kill off programs that either produce no graduates, or produce no
Re: (Score:2)
I think some of those community colleges are like $1K a semester. You can learn programming for a LOT less than $30K.
No Sympathy Here (Score:2, Insightful)
I am growing sick of constantly watching people help others directly fuck themselves over.
I don't see anyone giving a fuck about me when I help others fuck me over, especially when it's right there in the fucking contract... I guess that just comes with today's youth of ignorance and stupidity.
Oh wait... it's not just today's youth... it has always been most folks from birth to death!
A fool and their money... it's a harsh lesson... learn it before it takes a healthy liking to your ass!
Re:No Sympathy Here (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Then they have a case for breach of contract by the school and may have case for dissolution of contract. It seems like it is worth a shot under that context, but those claims are anecdotal. Two people can receive the same education and come out with entirely different understanding. We see it all the time everywhere around the world.
I attended a Trade School that was an early version of this scam when I was young and dumb too. It cost me 10k, much less than these unfortunate folks, but that is why I sa
Re: (Score:2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
It's not as easy as you make it sound.
It's possible to say that people should learn not to be taken advantage of AND that it's not acceptable to scam people. It's even a good idea
Re: (Score:3)
This attitude is only slightly above the ones doing the screwing over - who believe "you deserved to be screwed over because you didn't see me coming".
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Two problems here.
"When did we suddenly gain sympathy with the deplorables?"
stupid and deplorable are two entirely different things.
"This is idiocy being rewarded appropriately. Why aren't we taking a big shit on them like we always do?"
If they are being rewarded appropriate... then why take a big shit on them? That approach is not a good one either. You don't have to feel sorry for them, but adding to their trouble is not the right approach either!
Re: (Score:2)
Slashdot has a lot of shitty people. That doesn't mean we should encourage shitty behavior.
Re: (Score:2)
The venn diagrams of stupid and deplorable certainly intersect, but not everyone who's stupid is deplorable.
Coding, the new health care scam (Score:2)
Unpopular opinion (Score:2)
School becomes more and more obsolete every day.
In an age when I can get a slow paced, step-by-step, laymans terms video training on demand for pretty much any damn thing I can think of, all for the cost of internet access- I can't see the value in degree programs aside from the networking (and online courses pretty much eliminate this)
The price of a degree is simply not worth the money and time.
The best of both worlds (Score:4, Insightful)
> can get a slow paced, step-by-step, laymans terms video training on demand for pretty much any damn thing I can think of, all for the cost of internet access-
Absolutely!
> I can't see the value in degree programs aside from the networking
Much of the value of a degree is it specifies what you should have learned, and basically what you did learn if you didn't cheat. It tells employers and others a lot that is much more specific than "I watched a bunch of videos". "I watched a bunch of YouTube" doesn't tell me anything about what you were supposed to learn, at what level.
> The price of a degree is simply not worth the money
Absolutely a LOT of people WAY overpay for various degrees. Our student loan system of loaning unlimited amounts of money for any utterless worthless degree has really screwed things up. Not every school and every program is the same, however.
The main things a university provides over YouTube is that the school:
Defines a proper curriculum
Labels the curriculum appropriately in a widely understood way such as "bachelors of science in computer science", "associate degree in nursing", or "PhD in theoretical physics"
Validates learning with exams, graded projects, etc
Those three functions don't have to be expensive, and at some schools they aren't! My bachelors was $4,500/year, my masters from a top university will be under $10,000 total for the whole thing. The masters also includes actual conversations with experts, I can ask questions and have things explained by really smart people.
Schools such as Georgia Tech are putting together some great degree programs which use video and other technology to control costs. Check out the GA Tech OMCS for example. For a more generalized basic bachelors, WGU does a fine job and keeps costs low.
Saying "a degree isn't worth it" is like looking at a Ferrari and saying "a car isn't worth it". Yeah most people shouldn't buy a Ferrari or an African Culture degree, or any degree from University of Chicago. Just as Ferrari isn't the only kind of car, Columbia isn't the only school. Corollas and WGU degrees exist too, and make a lot of sense for a lot of people.
Re: (Score:2)
A degree also gives a hint (esp for a fresh out where I always look at the transcript) about if the person can do some things that they don't find particularly interesting and stick to them and perform them adequately.
Most jobs in software development involve some types of work that isn't the employee's first choice - perhaps it's writing coherent and useful input on bug reports once they have figured the problem out and fixed it, or writing documentation in header files so others can use it, or reviewing o
Re: (Score:2)
But can you learn? Step-by-step rote memorization of sequences to do for today's job in no way prepares you for next year's job. You can write an Android app today, but can you write a client/server application tomorrow? Or debug the OS, design the next big thing, figure out why your database is so slow, integrate with an AI library, understand the manufacturing chain, etc.
If you just want to know a particular job, then that's what trade schools have always been for - accelerated learning, hands on in th
Re: (Score:2)
School is mostly for signaling, and independent validation that you actually learned something. If you have a degree in Comp Sci, you're likely to be pretty competent in the things I need you to know. If you pinky-promise me that you watched videos that cover the exact same topics, you might be equally competent or better. Independent motivation is huge. You also might be lying and have watched none of it, or you might have "watched" it while gaming.
Degrees are too expensive, especially name brand ones,
Re: (Score:2)
Depends on what you're studying. If you need access to a chemistry or bio lab, or a machine shop, or even an EE shop, things are different. Plus of course there's the benefit of socializing and interacting with people who share the same interests. And the ability to pigeonhole a professor and ask them questions.
But, yeah, for the most part, I agree with you.
Re: (Score:2)
Redefinition of "Free" (Score:2)
Now means, "Somehow an even worse deal than a university."
Coding in 2020 (Score:2)
Today, if you are using a popular language or framework, 99% of the problems already have a solution, or you get something close which you can adapt. There is nothing inherently wrong in copy-pasting, its better than re-inventing the wheel. That said you should know what you are doing.
Today, I had to write a small function to increment a Date by one, for the whole year for multiple years in a loop. I found a sample piece of c
Colleges should be tuition free and public (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
McCoders (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I never liked "coder" anyway. It makes it sound like you're just transcribing stuff as opposed to actually thinking, so "coder" might be apropos for graduates of some of these mills. On the other end of the spectrum, "software engineer" was to high-fallutin, but I ran with it anyway. If they're going to make you sound like something that doesn't even really exist in the professional sense, who am I to stop them? What do I prefer? Programmer. There's a computer. I program it. I'm a programmer. Duh,
Brain Surgery -- Six Week Course -- $$$ Jobs (Score:2)
Learn all there is to know about brain surgery, in our six week condensed course.
We cut out the fluff, just focus on the stuff.
Brain surgeons make $1,000,000 per year. Why not let that be you. Money, prestige, fancy car, golf, new sexy wife...
Just sign here ............
Deferred payment is not free (Score:2)
Misleading headline. This is just another scam school for the desperate, gullible and those who can't do math. Even if they had provided a decent course, $30k is expensive and could go towards a real well recognized university degree.
Re: (Score:2)