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United States Government Medicine

Trump Says He Takes Hydroxychloroquine To Prevent Coronavirus Infection Even Though It's An Unproven Treatment (cnbc.com) 470

Posted by BeauHD from the don't-try-this-at-home dept.
hcs_$reboot writes: President Donald Trump said Monday that he has been taking anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine for over a week to prevent coronavirus infection even though it is not yet a proven treatment. Hydroxychloroquine, which is available as a generic drug and is also produced under the brand name Plaquenil by French drugmaker Sanofi, can have serious side effects, including muscle weakness and heart arrhythmia. A small study in Brazil was halted for safety reasons after coronavirus patients taking chloroquine, which hydroxychloroquine is derived from, developed arrhythmia, including some who died. Even Fox News agrees that this drug is harmful, adds hcs_$reboot. "I cannot stress this enough, this will kill you," Fox News host Neil Cavuto said.

Trump said Monday he asked his White House physician about the drug. "I asked him, 'What do you think?' He said, 'Well, if you'd like it.' I said, 'Yeah, I'd like it. I'd like to take it.'" Trump said Monday that if the drug wasn't good he'd "tell you." He said he's gotten "a lot of tremendously positive news on the hydroxy, and I say hey -- you know the expression I've used, John? What do you have to lose?"

"I'm not gonna get hurt by it. It's been around for 40 years," he said. "For malaria, for lupus, for other things. I take it. Front-line workers take it. A lot of doctors take it -- excuse me, a lot of doctors take it. I take it."
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Trump Says He Takes Hydroxychloroquine To Prevent Coronavirus Infection Even Though It's An Unproven Treatment More

Trump Says He Takes Hydroxychloroquine To Prevent Coronavirus Infection Even Though It's An Unproven Treatment

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  • how are there no double blind studies? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by klipclop ( 6724090 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @09:50PM (#60076178)
    This drug has been around for a long time and a cheap anti viral. At this point, I'd have expected some double blind tests to be underway by now. Since it's an antiviral, you need to take it early. I heard this with zinc shows good results when taken early. So having articles saying it's still unproven means the medical system doesn't want to test it. Now I actually believe it's because it's a cheap treatment that won't cause bio company stocks to rocket up on "possible breakthrough" news releases.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by kungfu4you ( 545092 )
      exactly. Just google for studies but limit the date of the results to prior to 1/1/2020 . You'll see it's been used safe;y plenty, and since then it's been used safely for C19. The articles to the contrary are politically motivated as made clear by the data.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by klipclop ( 6724090 )
        It just pisses me off, cause the Slashdot article referenced that says "still unproven" is after people are admitted to hospital and implies they are already well past the point anti viral would be helpful. (Assuming they are already so sick they need to be admitted) I actually changed my mind about HCQ today when I learned that "Moderna plans to sell more than $1 billion in fresh stock after COVID-19 vaccine study success"

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Jarwulf ( 530523 )
          You can't go a day without an article posted that shows HCQ is dangerous because they gave it to a bunch of people that were near death and shockingly more died than a healthy group that didn't get treatment.

          • Re: how are there no double blind studies? (Score:4, Insightful)

            by t4eXanadu ( 143668 ) on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @12:29AM (#60076800)

            That's not how that works at all. You give it to 2 groups who are sick, at different doses. You also give it to healthy groups. You look at variance both between and within all those group, not just between healthy and sick. What you proposed is stupid and shows nothing. Learn some research methods before speaking about things of which you know nothing.

          • Re:how are there no double blind studies? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Uecker ( 1842596 ) on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @03:24AM (#60077214)

            Sorry, no this is not what is done. The cardiac toxicity is a real concern. Here is a study where the high-dose treatment arm was stopped [1]. VC also found higher mortality in a retrospective analysis [2]. At the same time, evidence for its effectiveness is weak. Maybe it helps when given early and maybe risk can be eliminated with proper screening for contraindications and using the right dose. But the situation is not clear at all.

            1. https://www.medrxiv.org/conten... [medrxiv.org]
            2. https://www.medrxiv.org/conten... [medrxiv.org]

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Frank Burly ( 4247955 )
          I can see how a non-native speaker could believe that "disproven" is a subset of "unproven" (comprising all things which have not been proven true). But generally "unproven" means "not shown true, but not known to be false."

      • Dose makes the poison. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by hey! ( 33014 ) on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @01:10AM (#60076920) Homepage Journal

        This is why chloroquine requires close medical supervision when for lupus, but not for malaria prophylaxis: the doses for lupus are 200x as large.

        There is no such thing as an inherently "safe" drug. There are only safe *dosages*. Even pure water can be a fatal toxin [wikipedia.org] when administered in sufficiently high quantities.

        Chloroquine show *in vitro* action against many viruses by altering the pH of many cell organelles, interfering with the construction and transport of proteins within the cell. Plasmodium, the cause of Malaria, is a eukaryotic organism, just like we are, and is sensitive to this effect. If you turn up the dosage to the point where this same effect happens in our cells, there's no guarantee this won't interfere with things our cells *need* to do for us.

    • So much BS about one drug (Score:5, Informative)

      by Xenographic ( 557057 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:10PM (#60076266) Journal

      It's unproven in the context of whether it helps with coronavirus. It's thought to help people taking it early or even before infection, though it's hardly fool-proof. It won't fix your lungs if you're already badly infected. Studies are still working on how much effect it has and when and whether that's a good reason to take it.

      HCQ is one of the WHO's "essential medicines," it is generic, and it has been used by many populations on a long-term basis for decades now. It does have one notable side-effect where it can cause heart problems, but doctors know this and screen you for it if they give it to you.

      There's so much BS flying around about it that I don't even know where to start. No, you shouldn't randomly self-administer it. No, it's not "going to kill you" when given by a doctor, assuming they're not dumb and check for contra-indications properly. It's probably one of the best things we have, but we have almost nothing right now. Remdesvir is an expensive patented drug, but it's not well-studied yet and might be a bit better, it's less proven due to being relatively new.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by sl149q ( 1537343 )

        From a WHO report on The cardiotoxicity of antimalarials, no reports of sudden unexplained deaths:

        "Despite hundreds of millions of doses administered in the treatment of malaria, there have been
        no reports of sudden unexplained death associated with quinine, chloroquine or amodiaquine,
        although each drug causes QT/QTc interval prolongation. Unfortunately, there are relatively few
        prospective studies of the electrocardiographic effects of these drugs."

        https://www.who.int/malaria/mp... [who.int]

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by mbkennel ( 97636 )

          Except until now those patients didn't have a SARS-Cov-2 infection which has major cardiovascular toxicity in itself, and the patient population is very different.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by tragedy ( 27079 )

          From your link:

          Exposure to chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine was reported in six and five cases of sudden
          death, respectively

          Also, the very next paragraph after the one you quote says:

          Large doses (>3.5mg base/kg) of intramuscular or subcutaneous chloroquine may also
          cause hypotension.

          The doses they're giving for Coronavirus are more like 650 mg.. The average person in the US (averaging males and females) is 82.6 kg. So, that would be doses or around 7.8mg per kg. So definitely a high dose. A lot higher than the doses normally used for malaria or lupus, etc. So really, the conclusions of that report aren;t really applicable to Coronavirus treatment. It would be intellectually dishonest to claim that it does.

      • Re:So much BS about one drug (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Dagmar d'Surreal ( 5939 ) on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @09:59AM (#60078082) Journal

        "One of the best things we have" right now would imply that it's efficacy is not just a guess which has no science backing it up. Claiming "It's thought to [...]" opens the door to whatever superstitious thing someone wants to imagine or just plain make up being used as justification for recommending anything, including Acai berries. Every actual study thus far has shown that it has no positive impact on COVID infections, so it's time to stop repeating this unscientific nonsense.

        HCQ is an "essential medicine" to the WHO because there are other things it actually does work on, like malaria, and it was very carefully tested for that application. ...and just because it's an "anti-viral" and COVID-19 is a virus (which appeared to be the line of desperation reasoning used by Italian doctors who were throwing things at the wall to see what would stick) doesn't mean anything.

        Heck, if our standard for trying to promote random drugs for use against COVID-19 is that it hasn't been disproven yet let's go ahead and put our faith into oscillococcinum. it's cheap, it's available at almost every CVS and Walgreens for some reason, even has a lower-cost generic substitute, and hey it's marketed as being for treating the flu and COVID-19 has many flu-like symptoms. Best of all, oscillococcinum has been proven to have absolutely no side-effects!

        Garbage like this is why the FDA made it illegal to promote a drug for a purpose for which it was not specifically tested. ...because otherwise, less-than-honest people will hype a drug for some panic or trend for which it is not effective solely to increase its marketing value. Probably the only reason the FDA hasn't jumped on Trump with both feet over this is that the bull**** coming out of his mouth isn't technically "advertising".

        Whether or not Remdesvir is "an expensive patented drug" doesn't really matter, because you know those magic Presidential powers to seize things that's been the mechanism behind intercepting shipments of masks to move them from blue states to the red states where they're needed? It covers that, too.

        Of course, doing that would anger the GOP's corporate masters who are expecting a big windfall (which they'd actually deserve) for being lucky enough to have something that actually is testing as effective in treating COVID-19, and he probably feels it would be tantamount to admitting he was wrong about HCQ after he's repeatedly disputed the statements of prominent medical professionals. I genuinely don't see that happening.

    • Re:how are there no double blind studies? (Score:5, Informative)

      by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:29PM (#60076368) Journal
      There have been some completed trials [contagionlive.com]. None of them (that I know of) have found a notable effect. A couple of studies haven't been published officially yet because they are caught in peer review hell. [wikipedia.org] I don't know if they deserve it or not.

      There are a lot of trials currently underway [clinicaltrials.gov].

    • Re:how are there no double blind studies? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Junta ( 36770 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:44PM (#60076436)

      Given medical trial standards, it's simply not possible this early to have a 'proven' treatment for this. The medicine may be well understood in general, but specifically with this virus it hasn't been long enough to claim you have a proven treatment.

      It is possible that is is effective, but unproven is a valid word to use in this context, even as it is being tested.

      Studies are starting to report some results and don't necessarily agree, but at least they are suggestive that if there is a benefit, it is far from a sure thing.

    • It's ethically difficult [qz.com] to conduct double-blind studies in the middle of a severe outbreak. You can't ask doctors to give sick people placebos instead of treatment when they might die as a result, or to randomise their treatment of people regardless of how sick they are.

    • HCQ is a generic drug, who's going to pay for and invest valuable employee time in proving a generic drug is effective?

      Sure, there's a charitable side to it, but the legal, medical, and logistical challenges to run a meaningful double-blind study are yuuuuge.

    • Quick: What shape is the Earth?

    • This drug has been around for a long time and a cheap anti viral.

      It has been around a long time, but it is not a proven anti-viral drug, cheap or otherwise.

    • Umhhh.... malaria isn't a virus. Also it does promote heart irregularities, to such an extent that the FDA removed it from easy access years, possibly decades, ago. It's better than malaria, but that's not really a huge claim to goodness.

      Now in studies in a petri dish hydroxychloroquine did work against COVID19, but they used a concentration so high that it would kill people, too.

      For a long time nobody bothered with double blind studies, since is seemed like a silly idea. Since Trump started promoting it, though, a few such studies have been started. It will be awhile before the results are out. Nobody would have bothered except that they needed to be able to tell people, "Look, it was a silly idea, but we checked anyway. It didn't work.". Since they really are double blind studies it's possible that the answer will surprise everyone, but I sure wouldn't put any money on that happening. If someone I knew to be honorable offered to allow me to bet the other way, I'd probably accept...unless I didn't want to hurt or alienate them.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Darinbob ( 1142669 )

      It's not an anti-viral, it works in different ways. Malaria and lupus are not viral diseases either, and it works in those cases by reducing symptoms. The most that is happening here is that the same mechanism that reduces symptoms in those diseases may be taking effect with cofid-19. But it is not killing any viruses! I also suspect that normal NSAIDs or corticosteroids could reduce the symptoms as well, they're just not as fashionable.

      When it comes to medicine, the first rule is that you don't take it if

  • Placebo? (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by djbckr ( 673156 )
    I would love it if his physician (who SHOULD know better than to do this bullshit) gave him a placebo. But I suppose we'll never know.

    • Re:Placebo? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by klipclop ( 6724090 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:06PM (#60076252)
      Go read "Moderna plans to sell more than $1 billion in fresh stock after COVID-19 vaccine study success" . It's pretty shameful. I actually used to think HCQ was just Trump being Trump when he mentioned it a few months ago. Now I think the big pharma just doesn't want to look into it because it's a cheap anti viral they can't make billions from.
      • I'm not sure where you're from, but as we don't have much socialized medicine in the United States to speak of, we also have lots of private biomedical research. There are government grants that support research, although they've been harder to come by in this administration. So, it is to be expected that companies in the US will profit off of successful treatments and vaccines. We can use the War Powers Act to force them to allow others to manufacture it, as well. I'm not sure of the details thereof bu

    • had a wonderfully profitable career by pleasing his patient.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

  • Oh please. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Evangelion ( 2145 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @09:51PM (#60076190) Homepage

    Even Fox News agrees that this drug is harmful, adds hcs_$reboot. "I cannot stress this enough, this will kill you," Fox News host Neil Cavuto said.

    Oh please, people take this as long-term treatment for lupus and as prophylaxis for malaria for months on end with no ill effects. Chloroquine is a 70-year old drug that's one of the most prescribed drugs in human history. It's safety profile is very well understood, and it's not dangerous taken at correct dosages.

    This is fear mongering of the dumbest kind.

    • Re:Oh please. (Score:5, Informative)

      by xaduurv ( 6878360 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:04PM (#60076242)
      You've actually gotten to the nub of this with your line, "it's not dangerous taken at correct dosages". From what I've read, the dosage used in existing treatments is far lower than those being used in trials for treatment for COVID-19, since efficacy wasn't being achieved at the normal dose. The problem with this is when used at the higher dosage it's being found to be far more harmful.
    • At this point Trump could tell people he likes to chew Bazooka Joe bubble gum once in a while. Next thing you know there will be studies of how this gum can cause adverse health problems for certain groups of people. Soon enough, people will be reportedly dying from choking on bubble gum because the president recommended it.

  • Who knows? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Camel Pilot ( 78781 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @09:52PM (#60076198) Homepage Journal

    He may or he may not. It is weird but his ego is invested in hydroxychloroquine and he will effortlessly and reflexively lie to bolster his ego. This has shades of the sharpie drawn over Alabama map to "prove" his earlier mistakes

    • >> . It is weird but his ego is invested in hydroxychloroquine and he will effortlessly and reflexively lie to bolster his ego.

      Invested enough to probably actually take despite the documented dangers.

      • I don't think so. Too vain. See https://www.drugs.com/hydroxyc... [drugs.com] Note the list of side effects.
        Common hydroxychloroquine side effects include:
        headache, dizziness;
        nausea, vomiting, stomach pain;
        loss of appetite, weight loss;
        feeling nervous or irritable;
        skin rash or itching; or
        hair loss.
        he is not going to risk losing those last few strands of hair. He is lying. Surprised?

        • Re:Who knows? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by flyingfsck ( 986395 ) on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @02:33AM (#60077110)
          Dude, hundreds of millions of people around the world are taking HCQ every day for decades. I have also when I lived in a malaria region. Look at the Covid death rates in countries where Malaria is endemic. Note that there is a whole world beyond the US borders for you to explore.

    • Re:Who knows? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by phalse phace ( 454635 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:51PM (#60076454)

      Trump thinks he's taking it. His doctor is actually giving him a placebo or vitamin tablets.

  • Al Gore is not a scientist and neither is Donald. Ignore them both, or at least verify from a real source.

  • He's lying (Score:4, Informative)

    by Ly4 ( 2353328 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @09:54PM (#60076208)

    He's probably lying.

    The WH doctor's statement has no specifics about when he started or if he's actually taking it, just some vague language about benefits outweighing risks.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/a... [thehill.com]

  • Dishonest much? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by grasshoppa ( 657393 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @09:55PM (#60076212) Homepage

    The drug has been around for a long time, and at recommended doses there are minimal side effects for most people, even with long term usage.

    Every time someone brings up a negative study about this drug, particularly in reference to C19, you dig in and find out they STARTED by giving this drug to folks with advanced conditions + other health conditions ( or they give the patients elevated doses, as the study in Brazil did ). Other studies ( which don't get the airtime of course ), show that taken early ( or, indeed, preventatively ) leads to significant reduction in severity and length of illness.

    It's about as safe as a drug of this nature can be. Otherwise, why aren't folks dropping dead of it left and right?

    • The biggest issue is that it only causes under $1 per treatment. Can't make a bagillion dollars if you're big pharma. The fact there are no serious studies going on at this point actually makes me very suspicious. Today was the kicker for me when "Moderna plans to sell more than $1 billion in fresh stock after COVID-19 vaccine study success"

      • I used to group "big pharma" stuff into the conspiracy bucket, but after seeing the nonsense with hydroxychloroquine I'm starting to have second thoughts.

      • Especially when Gilead's Remdesvir is north of $1000 per dose. And apparently doesn't work any better for COVID 19 than it did for Ebola.

        A Twitter wag noted that Trump's trust fund includes fractional shares in a couple of generic drug makers. He noted that if Trump could talk up the value of HCQ, that Trump could reap a windfall in the TENS OF DOLLARS.

    • Re:Dishonest much? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by felixrising ( 1135205 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:12PM (#60076280)
      I think it really just comes down to there being actual science to back up it's efficacy with this type of use. It's not really much to ask for evidence, there are multiple properly designed randomised control trials (the gold standard for medical trials)... that is the kind of evidence that is required to be sure that taking A produces B. Otherwise it's all just snake oil. For me the major issue here is that you have this whole problem with right wing America that doesn't seem appreciate or acknowledge and respect the scientific method for determining whether something is true or not. Instead it's all about faith and hope and too often money.

      • Do you think Trump just pulled it out of his ass?

        Hydrochloroquine is used on lupus because it prevents the immune system from overreacting, which is basically what lupus is.

        ,p>Even if it does not cure COVID19, it helps prevent the immune system from going into overdrive, which is one of the biggest side effects of COVID19. So it may not cure COVID19, but it may make it more managable. just like cough drops may not cure a cold but they make a cold more tolerable.

    • Re:Dishonest much? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Namarrgon ( 105036 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:06PM (#60076510) Homepage

      The FDA issued a caution [fda.gov] against using HCQ outside hospital settings for a reason. There have been a number of fatalities [healthlinks.net.au] in the past, and dosage is critical.

      Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine can cause abnormal heart rhythms such as QT interval prolongation and a dangerously rapid heart rate called ventricular tachycardia. These risks may increase when these medicines are combined with other medicines known to prolong the QT interval, including the antibiotic azithromycin, which is also being used in some COVID-19 patients without FDA approval for this condition. Patients who also have other health issues such as heart and kidney disease are likely to be at increased risk of these heart problems when receiving these medicines.

  • One of the possible side-effects of this drug is hallucinations, but how will we know if Trump is affected?

    Maybe he's been seeing a time-travelling Obama sabotaging him over the last few weeks? :-D

  • Well I am so glad that Cavuto is such an excellent MD that he can tell us all what not to take.

    '

    As for Trump, he is taking it under a doctors prescription. Some people make a biog deal that he asked for it.

    When I first saw my cardiologist I was going to ask if I should start taking aspirin. The moment I walked in he prescribed aspirin even before I could ask. If for some reason he didn't and I asked and he would prescribe it for me, no one would make anything of it.

  • It has already been proven as not even related to covid19, in fact it has actually been proven to dangerously raise the probabilities of patient death. Stop trying to profit from poison, pretty please.

  • *crosses fingers*

  • There's a deeper story here (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Pollux ( 102520 ) <speter AT tedata DOT net DOT eg> on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:21PM (#60076322) Journal

    What I'd really like to know is why the president is still promoting hydroxychloroquine, after news was released a week-and-a-half ago debunking the claim [go.com]. The NYT found a connection last month [nytimes.com] between Jared Kushner and pharmaceutical companies. Trump's continued beating of this dead horse of a treatment really creates a strong stench of cronyism still lingering in the air.

    • A) The study you liked to was doing the proverbial "holding it wrong".

      B) Lots and lots of other studies have shown it works when used correctly.

      C) Doctors and scientists all knew well before Covid it worked best as a preventative, which is exactly why you take it normally BEFORE you might be exposed to malaria.... and that's how Trump is using it, only in respect to Covid. literally BILLIONS of people have taken it for this purpose. Trump isn't the crazy one here for thinking there's a good chance it work

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by dfghjk ( 711126 )

        You have any citations for anything you claim here? Of course not.

        What is the dosage for this drug when used as a preventative for this particular virus? You have any evidence that this is known? Of course not.

        You have any evidence that Trump is actually using it? Of course not. Trump is a liar and self-promoter with a financial interest in the drug.

        If Trump thinks this drug is best used as a preventative, then why did he only start "taking" it recently?

        Are you on the side of honesty? Of course not.

    • Because every actual study of HCQ + Azithromycin has shown the combo is very effective against COVID-19.
      It is the current standard treatment protocol across the globe for people who develop pneumonia-like symptoms from COVID-19.

  • See, if I went to my doctor and said "I want to start taking drug X" - my doctor would feel free to say "yeah, that's not going to happen".

  • I am not a doctor, but... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by No Longer an AC ( 4611353 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @10:30PM (#60076380) Journal

    I think you're an idiot if you're taking a drug with potential severe side effects to avoid a virus while refusing to wear a mask to avoid the virus (or at least avoid spreading it).

    Trump brags that he gets tested every day - and no matter who is President, they should have the best medical care, but what the actual FUCK?

    I doubt Trump's doctor prescribed hydroxychloroquine because he thought it was the best treatment for his reelection....I mean heath...but when you're President of the United States the Hippocratic Oath apparently includes making him or her happy.

    • He asked his doctor about it, and his doctor prescribed it.

      That's exactly how anyone that wants it can get it - ask your doctor.

      Trump said Monday he asked his White House physician about the drug. "I asked him, 'What do you think?' He said, 'Well, if you'd like it.' I said, 'Yeah, I'd like it. I'd like to take it.'" Trump said Monday that if the drug wasn't good he'd "tell you." He said he's gotten "a lot of tremendously positive news on the hydroxy, and I say hey -- you know the expression I've used, John? What do you have to lose?"

  • HCQ is "unproven"? Then why have MILLIONS of people taken it for the last 70 years? It's pretty well proven to work against malaria, which means it's safe enough. And there have been many studies, starting with a couple in Italy at the very beginning of the Wuhan coronavirus pandemic, demonstrating that HCQ, when taken with azythromycin and zinc, were quite effective.

    If you don't like HCQ because Trump recommended it, you can relax; Trump didn't start recommending it until AFTER Elon Musk retweeted the r

  • I'm surprised he is still pushing this drug. Given his track record I do wonder if he is making money from it? No, I don't have anything to back up that view, it just smells bad to me and makes me wonder why he is so keen that people use it when he doesn't otherwise seem to care much about people's health during the pandemic.
  • If one pill is OK then two must be better. You can also chew them to make them hit faster. That's an old druggie tip.

  • His body, his choice. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kenh ( 9056 ) on Monday May 18, 2020 @11:12PM (#60076540) Homepage Journal

    Why are all these Democrats trying to wedge themselves in between a patient and their doctor? His doctor agreed to prescribe it, why is it anyone else's business?

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by flyingfsck ( 986395 )
      Democrats are Nanny-Staters. They want to control everyone's life from cradle to grave. As for the Prez, they want his grave to be closer. So that's why.

  • Has Trump tested positive for the virus?
    If he did, would he hide it?
    Or tell the press?

    His reputation for honesty and personal integrity is already well established.

  • It's unfortunate (Score:4, Insightful)

    by eclectro ( 227083 ) on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @02:56AM (#60077152)

    There is a vast amount of misinformation about HCQ even in this very slashdot thread as well as Covid19 itself. I have been following the Hydroxchloriquine issue since it was first mentioned by a couple of doctors in early March before the president got a hold of it. A French doctor said he tried it with his patients and had some success with the drug.

    Now here's the kicker, it's Hydroxychloriqune along with a couple of other drugs that works - specifically along with zinc and Azithromycin that seems to hinder RNA replication of the virus. It was never just Hydroxychloriqune alone by itself. It became just HCQ because of a weird game of "telephone" that then reached the inner circle of the President that heard it, then it was propagated by the press that fails to know how to do their job correctly and gets the stuff they print from the internet like the rest of us does now. Not to also mention it is seen as a political hammer to be used. Otherwise they would have found a way to stop mistating what the original facts were.

    A just released retrospective study [ny1.com] shows that the combination of Hydroxychloriquine, zinc, and azithromycin can lessen morbidity from Covid19 by as much 44% and shorten hospital stays. While it is not a double blind study, it is safe to say that there is some benefit to the drug combination.

    However, it is likely only effective when given early in the course of the disease (and remdesivir for that matter is the same way). And why they/we can not test enough for this disease. There needs to be a $1 pee-test that everyone can use on a weekly basis. But I digress. By time somebody is put on a ventilator for Covid19, the survival rate for all ages is horrible. And doctors should be doing all they can to avoid that. Which will eventually render ventillators as less important than originally thought for the disease. But I digress again.

    Thanks to some wonderfully brilliant minds focusing their attention on this disease, our understanding of it is rapidly changing. It's not a disease of just the lungs, but it's a whole body problem with the cytokine storm that results in breathing difficulties as one of the last stages of the disease. As such, there likely will be different multiple treatments come forth that addresses the primary mechanism of the disease (outside of vaccines which cannot escape their time bottleneck).

    I think that the Hydrochloriquine combination while effective will be replaced with more effective treatments as the disease is better understood and testing is increased. It may find application in those places that are unable to immediately obtain better treatments. But I do think that like ventillators, it will eventually become replaced with better treatments or vaccines.

    There has been some interest in taking this medication prophylatically. All indications are that this is likely a poor idea because while Hydoxychloriquine is well understood, it does have noticeable side effects that will become significant with prolonged use. If it's a situation where everyone around you is coughing and sneezing because they have Covid19, then it might be a temporary option.

    But the very best thing we can do for ourselves is to switch from a "reactive" mindset to
    a "proactive" one. These include;

    • Wearing a mask. Everyone needs to be onboard with this. I know many people are not for a litany of reasons, but I truly think that this single thing has the potential to bring the disease under control short of a viable vaccine. Getting to that point is a whole other discussion.
    • Taking care of your own personal health. This disease is hitting those who are overweight/obese, have uncontrolled diabetes the hardest. Also get enough sleep on a daily basis
    • Be better informed and side with the scientific facts, rather than side with whatever politic

  • Well that's dumb (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @04:55AM (#60077398)
    A morbidly obese geriatric taking a drug that causes blood pressure and heart complications and does nothing for COVID-19. That's about as smart as anything he's ever done. It would be a shame if his ignorance of medicine is the thing that finishes him off.

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