College Tests Called Unfair To Homebound, Tech-Poor Students (bloomberg.com) 61
A group of high school students sued the College Entrance Examination Board claiming its advanced placement tests are unfair to teens trapped at home by the coronavirus pandemic without adequate computers or internet connections. From a report: The board, which offers college-level curriculum for courses and exams to high school students, and Educational Testing Services, which administers the advanced placement exams, discriminated against students without sufficient resources, those in remote locations and the disabled, according to a proposed class-action complaint filed Tuesday in Los Angeles federal court. "It is unrealistic to think that all students have quiet, private spaces at home in which to test," the students said. "Lower-income students are much more likely to face cramped housing, siblings and parents sharing the same workspace, internet connectivity problems, noisy environments, and less comfortable testing spaces." The students were joined in the complaint by FairTest, an advocacy group that has been pushing colleges to drop the SAT and ACT as an admissions requirement because the standardized tests are allegedly biased against poor and minority students.
hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Students who were unable to successfully submit their exam can still take a makeup and have the opportunity to earn college credit
Sounds to me like AP is being fairly accommodating here. I take classes at local community colleges for fun, and I've found that they've all been very accommodating as well. At the same time, many of the students have disappeared almost entirely. That sounds to me more like an issue of student motivation than anything else.
But really, I think this quote says it all:
“This lawsuit is a PR stunt masquerading as a legal complaint being manufactured by an opportunistic organization that prioritizes media coverage for itself,” he said in an emailed statement. “It is wrong factually and baseless legally.”
FairTest should be ashamed of themselves for their opportunism.
Re: (Score:2)
Wait.. that's what you're getting at right? Those lazy ass bastards who vote republican because someone promises to invest in near by factories so they wouldn't have to actually use two brain cells to try and find a job? How about the coal workers who celebrate filling prisons with more people because it provides jobs for them. Or the really amazing advertising industry that convinces anyone who is barely out of diapers to wait camouflage pajamas and learn to
Re: hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
If you make the D1 Football team or Basketball team they let a lot slide
Re: (Score:3)
Fair would be a perfect meritocracy. Such a thing has never existed but that shouldn't stop us trying to get there.
"Study hard" is much easier if you have somewhere quiet to study, the right equipment and materials etc. If someone had a ball and chain shackled to their leg would you tell them to "just run faster"?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I think you're confused about this lawsuit. Let me clarify:
A group of high school students sued the College Entrance Examination Board claiming its advanced placement tests are unfair to teens trapped at home by the coronavirus pandemic without adequate computers or internet connections.
(emphasis added)
This is about the test itself. Which was multiple choice in every case, as far as I'm aware. I don't know about you, but when I took AP courses the tests involved a number of free-response sections as well.
They already modified the test to make it much easier to take/administer given the current situation. The complaint here is that the test itself had issues on some users' computers. I haven't heard any statistics I trust, re: how m
Re: (Score:2)
Which was multiple choice in every case, as far as I'm aware.
Not this year. My kid took the AP Human Geo test last week and it had NO multiple-choice questions. They removed them because they figured cheating would be too easy. All the questions were free-response.
The test used very little bandwidth. So Internet speed should not have been an issue.
The complaint here is that the test itself had issues on some users' computers.
Apparently some kids with older browsers had issues. They will all have an opportunity to retake the test.
Covid is causing lots of problems for lots of people. The College Board made a good faith effort to run a fair
Re: So if you spend days/weeks/months craming (Score:2)
There was also a problem of students using shared documents which could facilitate cheating.
Is some of this less than equitable? Yes, it is. Does this single instance rise to the level of being actionable? Only in the minds of those looking for a fight.
Re: (Score:2)
There was also a problem of students using shared documents which could facilitate cheating.
Is some of this less than equitable? Yes, it is. Does this single instance rise to the level of being actionable? Only in the minds of those looking for a fight.
It is ever so simple to check for sharing documents and other plagiarism activity that this isn't worth mentioning.
Re: (Score:3)
I can tell you that I had high speed internet for my kid in high school and it didn't just "make a difference" it was mandatory. She would routinely get homework that required online sources because they didn't have textbooks anymore (or the books weren't being used because they were 10+ years old and you're not allowed to take them home because there aren't enough to give to each student).
It's too bad I agree with your signature or I would trash you further.
When you're taking an AP multiple-choice exam, bandwidth is NOT an issue. I've written graduate-level online exams and I can guarantee that when you pay to take SAT or ACT online, you won't be watching videos and advertisements. The bandwidth to deliver a question with a form that accepts a multiple-choice answer, even if it's inundated with libraries like jquery and jqueryui, is something you could have done on 3G.
This is nothing b
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
SAT and ACT testing...
yeah, but...
This isn't about the SAT and ACT. This is about AP ("Advanced Placement") courses which count for college credit, making this whole thing all that much more ridiculous.
Re:this is functioning as intended. (Score:5, Informative)
I won't claim to have grown up particularly poor, but when I was going to take the ACT my mom took me to the library to get some prep books that they had which contains sample questions and a practice test that you could take for yourself. I don't know if it helped me score significantly better than I otherwise would have, but it cost exactly $0.
Re: (Score:2)
I know, for example, that most of the monuments to the American Confederacy were built long after the war to remind black folk to stay in their place, but I didn't know that until John Oliver ran a segment on it.
John Oliver is a funny guy, and a number of his segments are quite good. But no, I wouldn't take history lessons from him, and the above is just as much nonsense as Prager U's historical revisionism is.
Re:this is functioning as intended. (Score:5, Informative)
I am a second career teacher who taught English at various Bay Area high schools, and also taught at SAT/ACT prep schools for several years. Yes, absolutely going to the SAT/ACT prep centers helps kids' scores quite a bit. As an example: the SAT and ACT both have essays that are pretty much mandatory. They are of an unusual format - for the SAT, the student is to read an essay and evaluate their argumentative techniques, and for the ACT the student is to evaluate three arguments to a hot-topic issue, and then write their own take, commenting on the three issues.
High Schools generally do not teach timed essays (maybe half do, half don't). High School English classes probably do not teach the SAT style essay - while argumentative techniques are certainly studied, most teachers wouldn't choose to make an essay about it, because most high schools aren't able to have more than a few essays per school year (they're a bitch to grade). And the ACT essay is way the fuck out there, no High School would teach anything like it.
Whereas, an SAT/ACT prep school will have the student write that style of essay EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND. It's a HUGE advantage. Maybe the most dedicated 1% of students could study an SAT/ACT guidebook on their own and get some of the same effect, but I have NEVER had a student do that, so it's not really a realistic alternative, even if it is a theoretical possibility.
I'll only discuss the essay portion because I don't feel like writing a fucking book about it. But similar advantages exist for the math & language sections as well. The only disagreement I would have with nimbius is that SAT/ACT studying is purely trivia. I understand the criticism, but it does instill a good understanding of the rules of grammar, of effective reading, of the basics of math, and of how to avoid making stupid mistakes.
Re: (Score:2)
Back when I was in high school [mumble mumble '70s] the AP classes also taught how to take a timed essay test.
Re: (Score:2)
When I took the SAT, I knew even then that the test was BS. I enrolled in a test prep class. It was extremely useful, and the scores of everyone who took it were noticeably better. I'm fine with standardized testing. I'm fine with testing in general. But the SAT sucks. It had a predicable format that was easy to game.
The AP tests I took were far more of a valid measure of my actual ability.
Re: (Score:2)
test prep can cost nearly a thousand dollars for an instructor led class
The test prep classes cover the exact same material that is available in the $10 prep book you can buy on Amazon. The extra $990 is just paying for the instructor to babysit you.
and often results in students gaining up to 200 points on the test.
200 points over the student who does NO preparation? Sure. But little if any advantage over self-motivated students who prep on their own.
Re: this is functioning as intended. (Score:2)
You are somewhat of topic, but I would like to address your allegation that lower income students don't have meaningful access to college entrance exam prep. I used to teach for Kaplan, and they provided SAT and ACT prep classes at no cost to the students in many low income schools. There are also other programs to provide access. Do they generally get private tutors? No, but most students don't either.
Is your solution to some students having difficulty with this testing regime the one that requires
Re: this is functioning as intended. (Score:4, Interesting)
So their solution.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Is to drop the results as admission requirements? Isnt that biased against smart/or and hard working students?
However tha'ts not the biggest problem here, this remote testing is a farce. Its more a test of 'how good are you at thinking of ways to cheat' than anything else.
For a start, you can have parents/siblings/whomever sitting there helping you... a pet rock could pass with flying colors.
So, what is the point of it? The solution however is NOT just to give everyone a pass, or make it even more farcical... the solution is to find some VIABLE way of testing.
Otherwise you are just sending the loud and clear message that 'ability and effort have no value'.
Perhaps some people think that's the right message. I would disagree.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: So their solution.. (Score:1)
hire some laid off teachers to proctor the extra classrooms.
Are you under the impression school districts laid teachers off when they ended classroom instruction? They were not, that's why every parent is home playing teacher while teachers send students endless 'worksheets'.
The SATs and AP tests are administered by teachers as a side-job, kinda like coaching a sport.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: So their solution.. (Score:2)
FFS this is about AP tests, Advanced Placement - tests students can take to earn college credit, NOT ADMISSION TO COLLEGE.
The students that fail the first time they take the test, they can re-take the test.
This is about AP tests for college Credit, these are presumably some of the best students in the school, they figured out how to thrive in their current environment, they aren't "hot-house flowers" in need of special treatment.
Re: (Score:2)
The solution however is NOT just to give everyone a pass, or make it even more farcical... the solution is to find some VIABLE way of testing.
Is there one? Probably not, short of something crazy like making everyone repeat a year somehow.
The idea that exams are precisely calibrated measures of each individual's performance is flawed anyway, and they know it, so they don't get too hung up on it.
So, in a nutshell (Score:5, Insightful)
We are talking about AP tests, advanced placement tests that allow high school students to take an exam to earn college credit for advanced study/class work NOT the SAT/ACT test.
So the argument goes, these are hardworking, clever students, arguably performing better than most of their classmates. That they face additional challenges may be interesting, but they've overcome those hardships to excel in their studies.
It is not the responsibility of the AP test to solve all the inequities in public education.
What does it mean if an AP student dies poorly in the AP test? Not much. These students applied and were accepted or rejected by colleges before they take their AP tests, so the issue is the loss of 'free' college credit.
Since the AP test organizers are offering 'do-overs', this is no big deal.
Bah (Score:2)
Cramped environment? Yeah, I had that, I also had the sense to make a desk out of a card table to study on. I would tell people fuck off while I'm trying to study.
The only reasons I performed poorly on a test were because I chose not to study. I'm not going to blame it on being poor or have no room. We had neither money or excessive space, but I did have books. If I chose to read them and go to school then I did well.
Some of the most pampered students in my class, some of which drive dump trucks now, were c
Testing is a subset of life (Score:2)
Just about everything is harder for poor, tech-deficient communities. Why is this special? It's not like they don't make accomodations. If you everyone to have the same opportunities, then you have to take away their freedom to excel.
Considering that CB bollocksed the AP exams (Score:2)
Servers not being able to manage a well-defined level of loading. Submits that just broke and on.
That and they seem to have zero idea that a fair number of kids signed up for the APâ(TM)s had no internet access. Something they now donâ(TM)t seem to care about now.
Lastly, they didnâ(TM)t apparently see fit to talk to colleges about how they will look at the apparent value of this yearâ(TM)s APâ(TM)s.
relation between internet and thinking (Score:1)
Why is the internet necessary to prepare for a test that measures thinking and knowledge in specialized areas? I took AP tests in 1987 and not having access to Facebook and Slashdot didn't get in my way ;)
Re: relation between internet and thinking (Score:2)
Oddly enough, the schools are closed. Maybe that makes a difference.
Jesus (Score:1)
Define adequate. (Score:2)
What about adequate test-taking conditions?
So, maybe the student shares a small apartment with a big family. Assuming their family cares enough about their test-taking member, staying out of the kitchen and keeping the noise down for a couple of hours should not be an issue.
It seems to me that the complaints are overblown
College admissions should be meritocratic (Score:2)
As another comment said, currently an online test is just a huge opportunity to cheat. The honest students are at a disadvantage, because the dishonest students can just pay someone else to take the test in their name. It's nearly impossible to prevent this. Webcam? Don't be ridiculous! You just point the cam at yourself, while your stand-in is across the table taking the exam.
The exams need to be proctored, requiring in-person, identified presence. There should be more emphasis placed on these exams, not l
I have never worked at a job... (Score:2)
where I wasn't allowed to check resources or look something up or search for an answer as part of my day-to-day duties. The concept of standardized testing is stupid...memorize all of these things, 99% of which you'll either forget and have to look up again, or never use.
A standard IQ test (problem solving) makes more sense to me as a valid form of student evaluation, but they can be biased too I suppose.
In fairness though, I had to take Bio 101 three times to get my A.A.S., never bothered with the bachelo
internet connectivity problems, noisy environments (Score:2)
So internet connection quality is a function of income... as the average rich person how crappy is Comcast / TimeWarner / ATT / etc and see what they say. And what about being low income means siblings can't be told to be quiet for the next 45 minutes while the test is being taken??
Hison (Score:1)