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United Kingdom China Security

UK Willing To Admit Nearly 3 Million From Hong Kong If China Adopts Security Law (npr.org) 283

schwit1 shares news that UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he would be willing to allow more than 2.8 million people from Hong Kong to live and work in the country if China implements a controversial proposed national security law on the former British colony. The law could take effect as soon as this month, and would expand mainland China's control over Hong Kong. NPR reports: Johnson wrote in a column that appeared in The Times of London that the law would infringe on the "one country, two systems" agreement China reached with Britain in 1997 when Britain ceded control of the territory. He added that the law "would curtail [Hong Kong's] freedoms and dramatically erode its autonomy."

If China were to implement the law, Johnson wrote, Britain is prepared to take in around 350,000 people from Hong Kong who already have British National (Overseas) passports and 2.5 million who would be eligible to apply for them. He also noted that the U.K. would be making "one of the biggest changes in our visa system in history." It would allow Hong Kongers with these passports to come to the U.K. for a renewable period of a year. The current system allows them to come without a visa for up to six months. The potential new system would include a right to work and, potentially, a path to citizenship. Johnson did not elaborate in the column about how the 2.5 million people eligible for a British passport would be able to attain one, or how arrivals from Hong Kong would attain citizenship.
"Many people in Hong Kong fear that their way of life -- which China pledged to uphold -- is under threat," Johnson wrote. "If China proceeds to justify their fears, then Britain could not in good conscience shrug our shoulders and walk away... I still hope that China will remember that responsibilities go hand in glove with strength and leadership."

The law would authorize mainland China to prevent "secession, subversion, terrorism and foreign interference" in the semi-autonomous city. "One part that has got people worried is the suggestion that China could set up its own institutions in Hong Kong responsible for security," reports the BBC.

"Hong Kong was handed back to China from British control in 1997, but under a unique agreement -- a mini-constitution called the Basic Law and a so-called 'one country, two systems' principle," the report adds. "They are supposed to protect certain freedoms for Hong Kong: freedom of assembly and speech, an independent judiciary and some democratic rights -- freedoms that no other part of mainland China has." People in Hong Kong believe the law will result in a loss of these freedoms and could see Beijing punish people for criticizing the country, as happens in mainland China.
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UK Willing To Admit Nearly 3 Million From Hong Kong If China Adopts Security Law

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  • by Don Bright ( 6770394 ) on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:07PM (#60143148)
    I don't have much faith in UK's immigration bureaucracy to accurately process these applications.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I don't think the UK could handle that many democracy loving individuals at once. They've been steadily grooming their citizens for subservience and a new dictatorship for years.
    • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:22PM (#60143170)

      That would be a wonton destruction of Britain.

      *bah-dum-dah*
      Thank you! I'll be here all week.

      • People from Hong Kong, I believe, are more culturally compatible so less integration friction. Though all of them is different to few of them.

        It's a pipedream because we're overcrowded, we don't have enough houses as it is.

        Unless ultra high density can be built rapidly, which at least they are used to, the only real option is massive displacement.
    • by vlad30 ( 44644 )
      The smart ones already left. the ones who will be able to leave now will need a lot of money already outside HK. Being eligible won't mean you can leave
  • The UK ceded HK to China - as they were supposed to - with express instructions on how to handle their new property.

    Yeah, right: if you give someone a walkman forbidding them to play any Genesis tape with it, whatcha gonna do when they finally do it anyway?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Countries are supposed to obey treaties. That is the point of international diplomacy. If they don't, there are consequences. Ideally in this case the UK would send in snipers to kill Winnie the Pooh but failing that, taking all of Hong Kong's best citizens for itself is not a bad alternative.
      • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

        Countries are supposed to obey treaties. That is the point of international diplomacy. If they don't, there are consequences. Ideally in this case the UK would send in snipers to kill Winnie the Pooh but failing that, taking all of Hong Kong's best citizens for itself is not a bad alternative.

        Remind me, how did World War One start?

    • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Thursday June 04, 2020 @02:33AM (#60143818) Journal

      The UK ceded HK to China - as they were supposed to

      The government they made the original deal with is currently located in Taiwan, not Beijing!

  • Even though England has not been in control for some time, it is great that they are willing to ackowndge they built up a home that many in Hong Kong liked - and that as it falls, they have some duty to the people there who for a short time were able to taste freedom the rest of China does not.

    I am especially sad to see Hong Kong go, I've been there a few times and it is an amazing city. It was the perfect buffer zone of commerce between China and the west, talk about killing the golden goose!

    If many Hong

    • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      In the majority the poorest would be going and mainlanders would pay corrupt Hong Kong officials for papers to allow migration to the UK. The government of China will be more than happy to ramp that 2 million up to 20 million and see how the UK government copes. Hong Kong as the gateway to China had a function that drove it's economy, it no longer is the gateway to China, has a too high population for it's resources production capacity and economy and the economy will continue to shrink. Unemployment and sh

      • by Wolfier ( 94144 )

        Won't work that way. From what was being announce, the threat is that they plan on extending the offer to those who was born in Hong Kong before the handover. There are only about 3 odd millions of them. i.e. all these people were once British subjects.

        The problem is that many of these people are loyal to the CCP. Freedom-loving Hongkongers born after the handover would be unfairly excluded - but then that's the best identification they have got.

        • by dargaud ( 518470 )
          Yeah, and where do you think the papers that say they were born before the handover will come from ? Corrupt officials, just like GP wrote. The CCP could flood England with fake refugees if they wanted ! And they'll probably want to.
    • England did not rule Hong Kong, and England is not acknowledging a duty of responsibility. England isnâ(TM)t even analogous to a US state due to the nature of the highly centralised unitary government system in the UK.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      More realistically, they want to reinforce London City by grabbing as much of HK's finance centre as possible in its inevitable emigration. They're going to be competing with others for it, everyone from Singapore to New York.

  • by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:58PM (#60143274) Journal
    China's CCP already passed the law, and their puppet placed in HK's Governorship, Ms. Lam, enthusiastically told her Beijing Masters "of course we will implement it!"
  • What a joke (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Doub ( 784854 ) on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @10:09PM (#60143306)
    Why the fuck would a Hongkonger want to move to a country where they would not be welcomed by the public (ya heard of Brexit, right?), and right in the middle of a pandemic, to one of the worst affected countries.
    • Re:What a joke (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lando242 ( 1322757 ) on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:10PM (#60143432)
      The same reason any group of people has grudgingly moved into a less than ideal situation. Cause it's better than the alternative. They've seen what happens to people that stand up to the Chinese regime. If you think what is going on in the USA right now is half as bad as what has happened to maligned groups in China you should do some research. It will open your eyes. I guaranty you a large number of people will be disappeared if they don't leave Hong Kong.
    • Re: What a joke (Score:5, Insightful)

      by reanjr ( 588767 ) on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:25PM (#60143472) Homepage

      So they can bitch about how shitty it is without fear of reprisal.

    • Why the fuck would a Hongkonger want to move to a country where they would not be welcomed by the public

      Because of freedom of speech.

    • I think you underestimate how much HK residents (particularly young ones) idolize the West, and the UK in particular.

      HK is a small place and a lot of people would like to get out of there to pursue better opportunities.

    • by nagora ( 177841 )

      Why the fuck would a Hongkonger want to move to a country where they would not be welcomed by the public (ya heard of Brexit, right?),

      Last time I checked, Hong Kong wasn't in the EU and wasn't trying to overturn democracy in order to protect private company interests. So, basically not at all connected to Brexit.

      However, wherever they go the truth is they'll face racism and trouble of the "they're taking our jobs/welfare/women" kind from the locals. That's just bloody people.

    • Why the fuck would a Hongkonger want to move to a country where they would not be welcomed by the public (ya heard of Brexit, right?), and right in the middle of a pandemic, to one of the worst affected countries.

      Brexit isn't a white supremacy movement nor is it a "Wall to Mexico". It's Britain leaving the EU after 45 years of policing by EU technocrats, which gave us costs and little benefits, with other EU countries receiving money, and while of course WWII is long in the past and Europe having been more than restored. People simply feel a need to go back to the days of Britain being primarily a nation, which is open to the world, and less one that is locked in and controlled by Europe. Nor is Britain a ship, we h

    • by zmooc ( 33175 )

      I don't know that but I do (indirectly) know several people from Hong Kong that have recently moved to the UK. Now that may be a coincidence, but I don't expect it to be. Unfortunately, recent official numbers do not appear to be available.

      Also, they're not welcome in Hong Kong either; like in all parts of China, only "loyal citizens" are "welcome"...

  • This is a worrying development. Johnson wouldn't be doing this unless he had checked the voting profile of these new immigrants. If they were going to vote Labour, he would be against them coming. Millions of new voters have the potential to tip the scales and keep the conservatives in power for another generation, a disastrous outcome. Immigrants in the UK overwhelmingly vote Labour, but these new Hong Kong immigrants won't. Labour will resist this act if they don't want to be reduced to the status of a pe
    • by quenda ( 644621 )

      Immigrants in the UK overwhelmingly vote Labour.

      Why is that? Brexit? Odd since so many immigrants to the UK are extremely conservative.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        Brexit was caused by Labour's traditional northern working class base voting against their own interests due to a successful Russian propaganda campaign. Immigrants vote Labour, London is a Labour stronghold because of this. Unfortunately the racist gammons outvoted the forces of progress and everyone is going to suffer for it. Especially them.
  • by mcswell ( 1102107 ) on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:16PM (#60143452)

    Population of HK ~= 7.5M (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/hong-kong-population/). Population of UK ~= 68M (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-kingdom-population/). So 2.8M is 37% of HK's population, and 4% of the UK's population.

    I think this is doable.

  • by Roger W Moore ( 538166 ) on Thursday June 04, 2020 @01:21AM (#60143674) Journal
    So the idiot that fought for Brexit arguing that it was necessary to leave the EU so the UK could control its borders and reduce immigration is now about to open the floodgates to 3 million people from Hong Kong? The leavers that voted for him are not going to be happy and will have no mainstream party left to vote for. If he persists with this I doubt it is going to end well.
    • by SciCom Luke ( 2739317 ) on Thursday June 04, 2020 @02:58AM (#60143860)
      3 million people and the money and the work ethics they bring with them...
    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      So the idiot that fought for Brexit arguing that it was necessary to leave the EU so the UK could control its borders and reduce immigration is now about to open the floodgates to 3 million people from Hong Kong?

      The UK was open to many hundreds of millions of EU citizens, not that many chose to come to the UK. Thinking most people will give up their home, jobs, friends and family that don't qualify to go half-way across the world to start over in a foreign country simply because the border is open... yeah that's not how it works. Not unless China turns it into an actual warzone.

    • One of the claims for Brexit was that it would turn the UK into a tax haven for wealth. Hong Kong is one of the wealthiest populations in the world per capita (2nd behind Switzerland), far higher than the UK (11th).

      I wonder what all those working class voters who supported Boris Johnson and Brexit will make of this?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Brexiteers don't realize it but they actually voted for more non-EU immigration. More people from outside Europe, with fewer cultural ties to us (which seems to be a big deal to them).

      In addition some countries are demanding freedom of movement in exchange for trade deals, e.g. Pakistan.

  • 3 million (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MrL0G1C ( 867445 ) on Thursday June 04, 2020 @01:56AM (#60143736) Journal

    He also did not elaborate on where these 3 million people would live. Let me just put things in perspective:

    Government introduced right-to-buy where people could buy council property off of the council at far below market rate, back in the 80's.

    Planning permission bureaucrats say no to a lot of new housing, can't build anything too tall in most of London, wouldn't look nice.

    Government then said councils can't use the money from those properties sold under 'right-to-buy' to build new council housing.

    Government allows ten million more people to flood in to the country. ( https://www.google.co.uk/searc... [google.co.uk] - )

    But hey, shouldn't complain because they scrapped plans that would force developers to actually develop reasonably good quality properties rather than just throw up shit boxes.

    Hands tied and generally being useless ****s, councils did not build more housing. Waiting lists for councils tens of thousands long closed to most new applicants decades ago (60-year old schizophrenic black gay homeless women with AIDs can still apply, but they'll have to give proof of address first to send the application to).

    So now with a major housing crisis, where the **** does Boris think these people would live on this small island nation that isn't food self-sufficient already. Ram-packed into squalid housing ready for the next virus out-break that the gov't won't deal with until it's too late again?

    At least the Hong-Kongers could teach stupid Brits how to wear masks and fight for democracy.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Government allows ten million more people to flood in to the country.

      Government "allowed" it? What were they going to do, forced sterilization? Only about half that was immigration, the rest was people already here having children.

      I'm with you on the housing crisis though. A big part of the problem is crap planning laws and too much protection of the "green belt". The island is more than big enough, we just need to get on with building. Only about 8% of the country is urbanized, 92% is too much green belt and not enough houses.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-... [bbc.co.uk]

      • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

        Only about half that was immigration

        Is it? What I've been hearing for ages is that western countries aren't increasing their population other than via immigration. Wikipedia confirms it, birth rate under 2.0 since 1974 so the increase in population is in small part due to people not dying as much and in large part due to more than quarter of a million people entering the country every year.
        And:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        I think building on green belt sounds like a bad

  • by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Thursday June 04, 2020 @01:57AM (#60143738) Homepage

    I find it great that they are offering a home to these people - especially if they are also doing the necessary logistical planning to bring them over.

    I wonder, though, if they have considered the cultural implications. Look at the US, and the idiotic efforts they make to prevent Asians from dominating all the top universities. The stereotypical Asian culture of valuing education and working hard - it pays off. If you eliminated hidden racial preferences, MIT would be mostly Asian.

    If the UK imports 3 million people from Hong Kong? This would have a huge impact on the British labour market. Your average British worker will struggle to keep up.

    I lived in the UK for a few years, and in many areas of work the British do have a problem. I saw this mostly in the trades, where the average competence, dedication and quality of work is...abysmal. Many general contractors make an effort to hire non-UK workers, and it's not to save money. Frankly, this was part of the reason that many blue-collar workers supported Brexit: make it harder for EU workers to come in and take their jobs. Imagine what might happen, when the competition can't be shut out by Brexit.

    tl;dr: Importing people from Hong Kong would need to be carefully managed to limit the inevitable resentment from current British residents, who would find themselves out-competed by their Hong Kong brethren.

    • Reading the actual statements it's not necessarily saying to bring over 3 million but that's the maximum extent that that could come.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday June 04, 2020 @02:52AM (#60143856)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by TJHook3r ( 4699685 ) on Thursday June 04, 2020 @03:16AM (#60143894)
    Johnson probably hopes that welcoming 2.5 million citizens of a wealthy and entrepreneurial island might give his own citizens a kick up the arse! Luckily they already come from a place with eye-watering property prices, so the UK will not be so big a shock! Of course, they will find that outside London, the country is not quite as rich in entertainment.
    • People in the UK are more amenable to people from HK. Anything can be stretched to the limit however.
  • I know it's hard to understand, but some countries have this thing called 'responsibility'. And, rarely, leaders have this thing called 'honour'. Britain feels a sense of obligation to Hong Kong. Other Commonwealth countries should join in too.

  • Australia should let them set up New Hong Kong on an unused stretch of coast. It will be a separate country, but will make an annual payment that's not particularly high, for 50 or 100 years.

  • They're OK with 3 million Chinese but the Polish plumber and the Lithuanian gardener is too much?

  • by Richard Kirk ( 535523 ) on Thursday June 04, 2020 @07:09AM (#60144188)

    Johnson again presents his ideas as the opinion of Britain. If you disagree, you cannot be British, right?

    I actually doubt his intention to actually do this. This is yet another 'dead cat' flung on the table to distract us from the virus, which in turn is distracting from Hard Brexit which he hopes to manage in a few weeks, to distract us from selling off the NHS. But it might work.

  • This reminds me of the story of American negotiators asking Deng Xiaoping if he would allow free emigration from (Communist) China. He laughed and replied "Of course, how many do you want?"

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