Lack of Broadband and Devices Hobbles America's Remote Learning 175
Long-time Slashdot reader theodp writes: Fifty-eight years after Roger Ebert reported on the PLATO system's potential to deliver online learning to homebound students in a 1962 News-Gazette article, Bloomberg Technology's Emily Chang takes a look at the nationwide struggle to shift to remote learning, interviewing McKinsey Education Practice Manager Emma Dorn, Khan Academy founder Sal Khan, and former U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan. For the long-term, all three seem hopeful that EdTech and "anywhere learning" will ultimately help promote mastery-based learning and equity, but expressed fears that remote learning will actually exacerbate achievement gaps in the short-term due to issues stemming from a lack of preparedness, broadband and device access, school resources, and support at home.
"Ninety percent of high-income students are logging into remote learning where only sixty percent of low-income students are," lamented Dorn, who called the current situation a "vast education experiment" and warned that lost learning could lead to an annual GDP loss of $270 billion. Khan also warned that an education catastrophe is not far off: "The reality is in the coming year, middle class children, upper middle class children are probably going to do fine, they're going to be engaged, there might even be some silver linings where their parents are getting more engaged than ever, finding them extra supports. While I would say 20 or 30 percent of the population is going to be a really difficult scenario."
Also concerned about the "COVID Slide" and learning loss for the most vulnerable and marginal was Duncan ("There's a small percent of children who I think will actually learn better in this situation, but there are many, many children who are falling behind"). However, Duncan expressed higher hopes for "anywhere learning" in the long-term.
"The idea of kids just learning, you know, in a bricks and mortar building nine months out of the year, you know, five days a week, six hours a day, that doesn't make sense. Kids have to be able to learn anything they want, anytime, anywhere. Find their passion, find their genius...
"We have to make access to devices and to broadband to the internet as ubiquitous as water and electricity and we have to really empower kids. We have to fund. We should have done this, you know, five years ago or ten years ago, but now we have to do it."
"Ninety percent of high-income students are logging into remote learning where only sixty percent of low-income students are," lamented Dorn, who called the current situation a "vast education experiment" and warned that lost learning could lead to an annual GDP loss of $270 billion. Khan also warned that an education catastrophe is not far off: "The reality is in the coming year, middle class children, upper middle class children are probably going to do fine, they're going to be engaged, there might even be some silver linings where their parents are getting more engaged than ever, finding them extra supports. While I would say 20 or 30 percent of the population is going to be a really difficult scenario."
Also concerned about the "COVID Slide" and learning loss for the most vulnerable and marginal was Duncan ("There's a small percent of children who I think will actually learn better in this situation, but there are many, many children who are falling behind"). However, Duncan expressed higher hopes for "anywhere learning" in the long-term.
"The idea of kids just learning, you know, in a bricks and mortar building nine months out of the year, you know, five days a week, six hours a day, that doesn't make sense. Kids have to be able to learn anything they want, anytime, anywhere. Find their passion, find their genius...
"We have to make access to devices and to broadband to the internet as ubiquitous as water and electricity and we have to really empower kids. We have to fund. We should have done this, you know, five years ago or ten years ago, but now we have to do it."
Kids should learn on their own? (Score:2)
Dream on. Kids will just spend all their time gaming and browsing social networks. Before you want to learn you already need to know the value of learning, or accept to be instructed by teachers.
Able to learn != Spend all day on Facebook (Score:2)
I think this post creates a false equivalence between the ability to learn and the freedom to spend all day on Facebook. They are not the same thing.
As an example, when my daughter was five she enjoyed doing some 2nd grade math games, and she enjoyed reading about the planets, especially dwarf planets. Sometimes at bed time she would ask me "daddy, can I read about Makemake again" (Makemake is a tad smaller than Pluto).
Now normally 8:00 was time to put everything away and go to sleep. But when my five ye
Re: Able to learn != Spend all day on Facebook (Score:2)
when my five year old wants to read about Kuiper Belt objects for a few minutes before falling asleep, I say yes. If she asked "daddy can I stay up reading stupid crap on Facebook?", the answer would be no.
Wow - what an amazing FIVE YEAR OLD! You must be so proud of your imaginary child!
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Actually it's pretty scary/worrisome. There is special Ed for some kids, different remedial things for slows kid (no child left behind). For a kid who is bored out of her mind because she did the crap two or three years ago ... yeah they don't have a class foe her. Wtf do I do with this freak of a child?
Re: Able to learn != Spend all day on Facebook (Score:2)
We collectively chose to take money from talented and gifted programs to fund remedial classes, we called it "no child left behind" and when parents figured out their gifted child was suffering to bring up the bottom of the class we were told it was the right thing to do.
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Dream on. Kids will just spend all their time gaming and browsing social networks. Before you want to learn you already need to know the value of learning, or accept to be instructed by teachers.
Exactly. Kids aren't being hampered by lack of technology, they are being hampered by people not limiting in person social interactions and/or wearing masks enough so those students can return to school. I was one of those kids who learned to read from Sesame Street and learned far more on my own than I did in school, but my daughter isn't. Without instruction she won't be reading until she's 10.
Re:Kids should learn on their own? (Score:5, Insightful)
And with good reason. I have not learned anything worthwhile in a school. At best, it didn't interfere with my education more than was necessary.
You have my sympathy. I wish your educational experience had been more rewarding. I wish everyone had a positive educational experience.
Looking back, while not perfect, I learned so much in school. The most important thing being how to think. Teachers gave us all kinds of odd problems to solve - problems where the answers were not obvious. It made us consider alternatives. Or the teachers to whom you gave the correct answer quickly, who then demanded (nicely) to know *how* you knew that was the right answer. Not enough to memorize - understand why the answer is right. What leads to the truth...
I've been many things in my life - I'm an engineer now. I'm paid to solve problems.
Whoda thunk?
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I bet you have massive street cred!
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And with good reason. I have not learned anything worthwhile in a school. At best, it didn't interfere with my education more than was necessary.
You evidently learned to write in school which is a worthwhile skill even if you are only using it to post dumb crap on Slashdot.
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You evidently learned to write in school which is a worthwhile skill even if you are only using it to post dumb crap on Slashdot.
It was pretty clear he meant he didn't learn these skills in school, not that he never learned them. I hope for your sake you understood that but just wanted to make a snide remark anyway.
A blanket statement like 'there is nothing worthwhile to learn in a school' only requires one counter example to disprove it, in this case the fact that he learned to read and write. You two would know that if you had paid attention in math class.
Re:Kids should learn on their own? (Score:4, Insightful)
And with good reason. I have not learned anything worthwhile in a school. At best, it didn't interfere with my education more than was necessary.
Very few children are self motivated enough (and have access to enough opportunity) to learn the important content of a K-12 education without the direction of formal education. Literacy rates and primary school enrollment have a strong causal relationship. Without good schooling the vast majority of people would not become educated.
Re: Kids should learn on their own? (Score:2)
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Personally, I could read pretty well by the time was 4, because my parents gave a shit.
I doubt I would have learned much math on my own, though.
Re: Kids should learn on their own? (Score:2)
On the other hand, when I was older, there was no way I was ever going to learn anything unless I wanted to, and made it a point to take the time to do it.
Re: Kids should learn on their own? (Score:2)
when I was 6 years old, video games and legos and squirt gun fights were much more fun than long division and left to my own devices I probably wouldn't have learned to do it.
Long division at six years old? STFU. You can't even make up believable BS!
Re: Kids should learn on their own? (Score:2)
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And with good reason. I have not learned anything worthwhile in a school. At best, it didn't interfere with my education more than was necessary.
Schools help develop many necessary skills required to function as a productive member of society. Besides basics like reading, writing and math, schools are where most of us are first exposed to the challenges of non-voluntary group dynamics, cooperative work, and performance of required tasks we do not find attractive or interesting. Add in exposure to science, history, the arts, etc.
Many of us have less than wonderful memories of our school years, for a variety of reasons. None of us learned nothing w
Welcome to our reality (Score:3)
In our world, you get a product that is just good enough that it get bought. Not any better. Because better means higher expense and that cuts into profit. If 512kbit is good enough that people buy it, this is what you'll get. Because shady backdoor deals will have made sure that there is no competition that could offer you 1mbit for the same price and people would prefer that. That's why you have countries where you can get gigabit to the home for less than 100 bucks while in the US, you're lucky if that gives you 10mbit. At least nominally because you get to share those 10mbit with everyone in town, and invariably one of them plays Pokemon with the content of TPB (i.e. "gotta download 'em all").
That it would be awesome for kids... well, who cares? Why should I give a fuck about kids, they don't hold shares in my company!
tough situation (Score:5, Interesting)
I have two kids in private school and one kid in public school, all working from home. The private school is focused on educating the kids, most or all kids have access and the kids have a full work load. The public school is focused on equal access, there are 10-20% of kids that are not going to get online ever. It really shows a stark difference between those that can afford internet and computers and those that cannot. My kid in public school isn't learning anything, she spends 10-15min in a Google meet with her class and does something super simple in almost no time after that. The public school is hobbled and has completely abdicated teaching to the parents, while providing parents no materials, no lessons, nothing. Public schools are failing our kids, its a choice to exclude everyone because they cannot include everyone, the majority suffer while a few forget about school.
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Mod parent up!
People complain about private schools for all kinds of reasons, but they deliver results. They deliver because they must compete with the "free" school down the street on price.
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I've seen kids/families that struggle in private school too. Everyone has a different family/home situation, different values, different personal issues. The private school is smaller and is a self-selected group rather than a geographically assigned group. With a smaller group of self-selected people you tend to get more shared values including obviously education. But when a private school kid has a learning problem or discipline problem, they get private help or move on. At the public school kids wi
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I've seen kids/families that struggle in private school too. /snip/ At the public school kids with learning or behavioral issues might actually get more support.
IEPs are available to private school children as well. While the lack of knowledge regarding these may be lacking in parents of private school parents, the knowledge is also lacking in the public schools. I volunteer closely within the world of foster care, and the amount of support is amazing. The amount of paperwork to receive it is equally amazing. And considering all the time and effort that goes into the programs, a decade later I'm still finding parents and educators alike who aren't aware of what's
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The kindergarten teacher at the private school retired just before my youngest could be in her class. She lamented never having the benefits and retirement income she could have had if she had worked for the public school system. However, she chose to be there for ideological reasons, she felt is was her calling to be there. The private school, even with fewer monetary benefits, has attracted a passionate staff. The passionate staff makes all the difference.
There is a local private university that crank
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Private schools can deliver because they aren't forced to take / keep the problematic children.
They can afford to be picky about whom they allow to attend.
You act like a heathenistic fuck-up in private school, they will kick your ass to the curb. :|
You act like a heathenistic fuck-up in public school, and you'll blend right in with everyone else
Unfortunately, the financial reality is the majority of parents can't afford private schools. So, little Timmy gets thrown into the public-school meatgrinder with t
Broadband probably not the problem here folks (Score:2)
Both my wife and I are professionals and our children will do just fine with remote learning. However, recent events cause me to reflect back to my upbringing in a working class home with only one parent. Broadband or not, there is no way in Hell that I'd have benefited in the least from remote learning. In fact, I'd have probably ended up in jail.
I didn't have anyone motivating me to learn, checking my homework (assuming I even bothered to do it), or supporting me in any other way academically. My mother w
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Maybe. But remote learning is a relatively new phenomenon, compared to the long history of education. It doesn't have a long body of results to say if it's good or bad, let alone what practices work best, and what doesn't. We may find that much like telecommuting it only works for a small group. A group that already has the qualities needed for it to work.
Re: Broadband probably not the problem here folks (Score:2)
Sure, might work for some small group. However, I think that we have enough experience to know that it will not work for a large group of kids. Would be better to address the problems of these most vulnerable children.
Time to look in the garage i guess (Score:2)
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lets be realistic what do they need web conferencing, PDF reader, ability to crawl the web
Web "crawling" is the process of programmatically parsing web pages, gathering links, and then parsing those pages for links, etc., either for the purpose of producing an indexed web search or to look for some specific type of data. But it is an amusing error in that "crawling" is also a good description of what it's like to try to surf (or "browse") the web with an antique CPU. Because of ongoing trends in webpages that make them consume more and more computing resources, old PCs are no longer suitable for
the problem with the e-learning being done now (Score:2)
Is that in many/most cases they're just trying to replicate the in-school experience over video conferencing and that sucks for everyone, teachers, kids and parents.
And I think it's largely due to the assumption that eventually and hopefully not too far in the future (next year?), regular school will resume and they're trying to keep kids in practice for how that works as much as possible.
But a more sustainable model for long term remote learning would be based exactly around what many homeschoolers have do
Lack of design (Score:3)
Plato was created in the days when 300 baud was "fast".
The only reason really fast internet is "required" for remote learning is that people have made it that way.
Conveying information information does not take much speed. Conveying the experience wrappers, though, consumes a lot of bits.
Why do you need a bidirectional Zoom video conference to teach basic math?
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Plato was created in the days when 300 baud was "fast".
Plato was also in 1962, which was before Johnson's "Great Society" and the "War on Poverty" wrecked society and exacerbated poverty.
Stop giving taxpayer money to corporations (Score:5, Informative)
In the early 90s, just as the internet was starting to take hold, the Clinton administration handed over $200 billion to private companies [newnetworks.com] for the express purpose of providing 45 Mbps bi-directional to homes, schools and communities. The baby bells all said they could deliver this speed, at around $40/month, with those taxpayer funded incentives. And look at how well that has worked out.
Since that time, well over $400 billion of taxpayer money [huffpost.com] has been given to providers for the express purpose of providing high speed broadband network access. Even now, the federal government [usda.gov] and states [thecentersquare.com] are handing over more taxpayer money to private companies to get broadband to the citizens. Oddly, the same private companies which have bilked the taxpayers for hundreds of billions of dollars now say the solution is to, wait for it, give them more money [theregister.com]. And they've been saying the same thing for years. [arstechnica.com]
That's right. After failing for three decades to provide high speed, low cost broadband access to the vast majority of people in this country, private industry says the taxpayers need to cough up MORE money, all the while people pay exorbitant costs for slow network speeds.
The saying, "There's a sucker born every minute" was never so true. And boy, are we suckers. At this point private industry should not receive a single pfennig more. They have been "incentivized" for decades to produce the goods but instead have used the money for stock buybacks and executive bonuses. Either they do what they were paid to do, by the taxpayer, or they give all the money back, plus interest. Enough is enough.
US schools have two problems (Score:2)
COVID is underscoring the fundamental problems with public schools in the US:
- First, y'all have a lot of really crappy teachers. There are many reasons for this - here are three: People studying education at US colleges are bottom of the barrel. Teaching degrees are valued above degrees in the field being taught. Teachers' unions prevent lousy teachers from being fired. There are more reasons, but those are three big ones.
- Second, the philosophy of NCGA: No Child Gets Ahead. Classes are taught to the lowe
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What we should be doing is opening a whole bunch of new schools. And because of the current special circumstances, we should also be developing a national distance learning standard which ensures compatible curricula at schools in this country so that student records can be meaningfully exchanged, and to ensure a basic minimum standard of education. If all that can be done, then maybe school vouchers will make some kind of sense, but then you won't want them any more. e.g. https://fee.org/articles/i-run... [fee.org]
Re: US schools have two problems (Score:2)
Because the national bureaucracy has been sooo successful in improving schools? Seriously? Best thing you could do is to start by getting the federal government out of education.
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What national bureaucracy are you referring to, exactly?
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You say y'all a lot for someone that seems to not associate yourself with being American.
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" - First, y'all have a lot of really crappy teachers. "
First, you need to understand the Teachers don't get to choose the cirriculum. It is dictated to them by administration and that cirriculum isn't designed to teach you anything other than how to score well on the standardized tests said administrations rely upon for funding.
" Classes are taught to the lowest common denominator. "
Of course they are. Welcome to the PUBLIC school system where everyone is treated the same no matter if you drool on your
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Found the parent who is pissed that his free daycare isn't available.
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Found the parent who is pissed that his free daycare isn't available.
Oh my, where to begin:
There's no such thing as a free lunch. My tax bill hasn't decreased even though the "free daycare" is closed county-wide.
Parents _should be_ pissed. Remote learning and on-campus learning aren't mutually exclusive. For those who must stay home for one reason or another, they may... for the others, on-campus should be permissible. Give parents the choice.
This reality affects the poorest more than the richest. This causes all the gaps, the ones slashdotters tend to abhor, to increase ra
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Schools are not "daycare" you moron.
Many if not most parents treat school like "daycare", providing little or no educational support. A lot of them don't even provide adequate food to their children; especially for children from low-income homes, school lunch may actually be the most nutrition they get all day.
I know you guys don't care about other people (hence the narcissism comment above)
Oh, do kindly shut your cakehole.
200,000 (Score:2)
That is official though. With the Republican governors suppressing the count for idiotic political reasons (because it makes Trump look less incompetent.), most likely we blasted past that already.
If only we had competent leadership like New Zealand or South Korea.
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The USA is about to hit 200,000 deaths [worldometers.info].
That is official though. With the Republican governors suppressing the count for idiotic political reasons (because it makes Trump look less incompetent.), most likely we blasted past that already.
If only we had competent leadership like New Zealand or South Korea.
And if only either of those two countries were the frequent destination for the entire rest of the world for trade, business, or leisure. And if only those two countries' leaders were called out for xenophobia or racism for restricting travel. Etc. Etc.
I'm not sure how armchair Monday-morning quarterbacking helps, but if you're going to do it, please be complete in your critique.
On that note, would you kindly link to the data that shows deaths caused exclusively by Covid-19 (rather than deaths "with" Covid-
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And if only either of those two countries were the frequent destination for the entire rest of the world for trade, business, or leisure.
New Zealand has about 775,000 visitors each year per 1 million population.
South Korea has about 325,000 visitors each year per 1 million population.
The USA has about 250,000 visitors each year per 1 million population.
You really need to do a bit of research before you make up excuses for why the USA's response to Covid-19 lags behind the rest of the world. That tin-foil hat is messing with your brain. Poor federal leadership in the US is responsible for 10's of thousands of deaths, and likely over 100 thousand. It would be like President Bush allowing another 50 9/11 attacks to occur because of incompetence and inaction.
You forgot to respond to this one: ...if only those two countries' leaders were called out for xenophobia or racism for restricting travel.
In 2019, the USA had 79.26 million visitors.
New Zealand had 2.9 million.
North Korea had 17.5 million.
You really need to do a bit of research before you make up excuses for why the USA's response to Covid-19 lags behind the rest of the world.
It appears the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?
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It appears the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?
It appears that you put your shoe on the wrong foot, sure. The per capita numbers are what matter. They're the numbers that matter when you're counting deaths, and they're the numbers that matter when you're counting tourists, because the chance of exposure based on touristry is related to the ratio of residents to tourists. You are the pigeon on the chessboard.
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It appears the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?
It appears that you put your shoe on the wrong foot, sure. The per capita numbers are what matter. They're the numbers that matter when you're counting deaths, and they're the numbers that matter when you're counting tourists, because the chance of exposure based on touristry is related to the ratio of residents to tourists. You are the pigeon on the chessboard.
More people == more exposure.
By virtue of there being around twenty six times the number of people to the USA versus New Zealand means roughly twenty six time the external exposure to the general populace.
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More people == more exposure. By virtue of there being around twenty six times the number of people to the USA versus New Zealand means roughly twenty six time the external exposure to the general populace.
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More people == more exposure. By virtue of there being around twenty six times the number of people to the USA versus New Zealand means roughly twenty six time the external exposure to the general populace.
Let that sink in. A COMPETENT President would have done something about that. They would have been a LEADER and would have mitigated that exposure.
Defending Trump is a game of whack-a-mole. You're never gonna win.
The fact that the Republican party doesn't throw him over the side says a LOT about them.
Choose a side! Ideology or the USA! Trump is AGAINST the USA!!
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More people == more exposure.
By virtue of there being around twenty six times the number of people to the USA versus New Zealand means roughly twenty six time the external exposure to the general populace.
Let that sink in. A COMPETENT President would have done something about that. They would have been a LEADER and would have mitigated that exposure.
Defending Trump is a game of whack-a-mole. You're never gonna win.
The fact that the Republican party doesn't throw him over the side says a LOT about them.
Choose a side! Ideology or the USA! Trump is AGAINST the USA!!
I'm not defending him.... aside from pointing out that the travel restrictions earned him the title of xenophobe.
Re: 200,000 (Score:2)
It doesnâ(TM)t matter one jot what Trump says.
Why?
Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Re: 200,000 (Score:2)
The first travel ban went in place by the end of January, after 10 deaths I think, how much earlier should the president have restricted travel? On what basis? NO ONE knew then what we know now.
Let's play a game - you're president, the intelligence agencies think something bad, in the form of a virus is coming, but your health officials can't investigate it, and the chinese say it is not air-transmissible, and the WHO says the virus is under control, nothing to worry about outside wuhan province. Do you shu
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In 2019, the USA had 79.26 million visitors.
New Zealand had 2.9 million.
North Korea had 17.5 million.
You got so close to a relevant thought. Just divide those numbers by each country's population and you would have gotten over the finish line.
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" If only we had competent leadership like New Zealand or South Korea. "
Leadership is only part of the equation ( and a small one at that ).
First you need a POPULATION that trusts their government and will listen / believe in what they say.
( Technically, you first need a government that is trustworthy, of which the American Government is laughable. )
Second, the population needs to be willing to adhere to the restrictions to get through the problem at hand.
Instead, we get conspiracy theory, Political Drama f
Re: 200,000 (Score:2)
I would have opted for NYC or Los Angeles for the meteor strike, and make it a biggie, at least 5 miles across.
Never mind that I am in one of those places.
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Our teacher's union has nothing to do with our schools staying closed. It is our state health department making the rules, which would not allow our schools to open with their current footprint until positivity rates drop significantly.
And the core cause is people not wearing masks and still hanging out with friends and family.
Re: Blame teachers unions (Score:2)
Teachers found a way to collect their full paycheck while staying home and posting social media posts about the upcoming election.
I wonder how many teachers, terrified about going into a classroom after every child had their temperature checked before entering, somehow found the strength to go out and protest with thousands of random strangers?
Re:Blame teachers unions (Score:4, Informative)
There is no reason that public schools should not be open. None. Despite what you hear from the narcissistic freaks here, masses of people are not dying of COVID. Certainly children are not. The teachers Union is blocking school reopening. Period. Think about that when you vote in November.
STFU and go to the Faux (errr Fox) News site to spout that bullshit...
Uhm.
LAUSD was closed in great part because of the teachers' union. One of their demands: close charter schools. How is shutting down charter schools a necessity related to COVID-19?
Read it for yourself: https://www.utla.net/sites/def... [utla.net]
Re: Blame teachers unions (Score:2)
When teachers unions say they won't reopen schools until we fix systemic racism and have universal healthcare, they stopped being teachers, they are blackmailers - I'd love to see the teachers get theReagan Air Traffic Controller deal- return to work or forfeit your job, end of negotiation.
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Hopefully, we'll vote all of them out in a few months, and we can begin to fix some of these major problems.
Indeed. Californians and New Yorkers should flip their seats ASAP.
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What happens to the kids whose family cannot afford to send them to private school?
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>"Hard to believe that the party that established government programs that resulting in the diminishment of the family structure in the U.S., would also be the party that kept the schools closed that then also resulted in the poor educational success of those same family's children. The reality is that more successful families will struggle the least from these new learning patterns, while those families that lack responsibility and discipline will also likely not provide the appropriate remote learning
Re:REEEeE..EEEE.eEEE.E (Score:5, Insightful)
Shut the flying fuck up, you cocksucker. After all the years of telcos and cable companies passing laws preventing underserved communities from creating their own broadband services even WHEN the incumbents didn't want to supply service, that crap is now coming in to roost.
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When you say "underserved communitites", they think black people. Note, instead, that it's mostly country folk who lack broadband options.
Re:REEEeE..EEEE.eEEE.E (Score:4, Insightful)
When you say "underserved communitites", they think black people. Note, instead, that it's mostly country folk who lack broadband options.
There are plenty of people in cities who lack broadband options due to monopoly agreements, prohibition of municipal broadband, etc. In most other countries it's only rural users who have significant challenges getting quality internet access, in the USA it's also many users in cities as well.
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There are plenty of people in cities who lack broadband options because the telcos / ISP folks refuse to spend the money to lay the fiber because the area is considered too " poor " for them to ever see a return on their investment. ( Eg: No one in the area would be able to afford the monthly costs )
Have you ever seen Google Fiber, AT&T Fiber or anything of that class of service available in the poor areas of a city ?
You never will unless they are court ordered to do so.
Re: REEEeE..EEEE.eEEE.E (Score:2)
Those laws that outlaw local municipal competition are state, not federal laws. Change the law. You can do it, just do it. It's the citizens that elect the officials that screw them over - maybe stop doing that?
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even WHEN the incumbents didn't want to supply service
So does that make you a fascist or a communist? Antifa got modpoints again, so we already know the answer. Nice +5, Insightful on your troll there.
Neither, you twit. I'm just a regular guy who has seen the bulllshit that the big ISPs have pulled over the years preventing any kind of competition to take hold in communities. Get out of your basement much?
how much of this is beacuse people use phones? (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe the reason people don't have internet connections in their homes is because their digital lives are all on their phones. No need to pay the monthly ISP bill?
Re: how much of this is beacuse people use phones? (Score:3)
Correct. High speed internet for home plus basic (pay as you go) phone service costs less than most people pay for a monthly data plan. But God forbid they should not have 24-7 access to social media. I don't know anybody, however poor, that does not have a smartphone and data plan. It's personal priorities.
There are MANY people with no mobile service (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, by the way, I live in one of those ares where the telcos pushed through laws that make it illegal for our municipalities and counties to offer their own broadband, and they even sued one of our cities' broadband initiatives into oblivion. This left thousands of people near me (who also happen to live in an area with no cell coverage) suddenly without internet at home.
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" I live in one of those ares where the telcos pushed through laws that make it illegal for our municipalities and counties to offer their own broadband"
You hit the nail on the head with that, IMHO.
Americans are the most ingenious nation I know of, you people could sort this out in a heart beat, yet you allow a political system where this nonsense can happen. Sort it out people.
Re: There are MANY people with no mobile service (Score:2)
Is this the Appalachia region of the United States? Because it sure sounds like it.
Rural, mountainous, high poverty rate. Many of the schools in that region had metal detectors installed because of the kind of gun crime there one would normally associate with the inner city. It's pretty bad in that region and almost always has been that way.
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Sorry ... 2%?
Re: There are MANY people with no mobile service (Score:2)
Simple answer - open the schools to the 2% without internet - that averages out to less than one student per class (assuming class size is under 50).
Require teachers, still collecting their full pay check, to get their backside into the school building and manage their virtual classes from their. Each teacher could EASlLY accommodate a student in their classroom and the administrators could simply walk around the building, keeping an eye on education.
Or, if you refuse to open buildings, start handing out sc
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Simple answer - open the schools to the 2% without internet - that averages out to less than one student per class (assuming class size is under 50).
Require teachers, still collecting their full pay check, to get their backside into the school building and manage their virtual classes from their. Each teacher could EASlLY accommodate a student in their classroom and the administrators could simply walk around the building, keeping an eye on education.
Or, if you refuse to open buildings, start handing out school desktops/laptops, and if they are truly outside any ISP service area, sneaker net lessons to them on USB keys.
Seriously, the problem you describe is trivial - you seem to be insisting someone else solve the problem.
No doubt. They can set up well distanced workspaces and provide the chromebooks. They can also provide food because many of these kids need that as well. It requires minimal effort, and only a few people to oversee them. Many schools already provide access to computer/internet after and before school hours for these same kids.
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As for poor cellular coverage, that comes down to multiple issues, some economic and some local and-or regional. If your area is so mountainous that it requires a large density of antenna masts, then that's uneconomical for cellular companies to build out. To support that density they need magnitudes more customers than your small heavy mountainous area can provide; mountainous regions worldwide are not known for their high population densities.
This sort of problem could be at least mitigated if coverage maps were not pure horseshit.
Maybe there is a better way to solve your problems. Have everyone in the region band together to build it themselves; the Brits and the Welsh (and probably the Scots) can do it, and have successfully done it. If you are located in the USA then you are screwed in this adventure by all sorts of laws and FCC red-tape.
You can do it in the US just fine so long as you operate it as a business. The government just hates to see anyone give anything away because then they can't collect as many taxes on it.
Re: There are MANY people with no mobile service (Score:2)
Please God let you not be a science teacher.
Geosynchronous satellites are rather high orbit, which makes them inherently useless for mass (real time) communication. Noting this might just explain why they have never been tasked for this.
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Maybe the reason people don't have internet connections in their homes is because their digital lives are all on their phones. No need to pay the monthly ISP bill?
Who is their carrier that their phone doesn't have hotspot mode? Combine that with the schools loaning out Chrome laptops and what's the problem, exactly, if it is true they have digital lives on their phones?
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Each would need a connection. And a laptop or PC with a camera. The loaner Chromebooks are actually lacking in supply. My youngest grandson is still waiting on his. School started last week.
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My youngest grandson is still waiting on his. School started last week.
A Chromebook costs less than many textbooks. Your grandson may lack one, but that is only because his school district has not made it a priority, not that it is an inherently unsolvable problem. The long term solution is to make it easier to fire school administrators so we can have some accountability.
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You can buy a Chromebook for him for under $100 for a factory refurb and if school started last week, $100 is a small price to pay to not fall behind. A cell connection can handle several users at once, but the parent would need to police the activity so no one is streaming music and entertainment videos when they're supposed to be studying.
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" A cell connection can handle several users at once "
You're making an assumption that everyone has amazing cell signal where they live. As I stated in a post further up, I live in a town of 20k and, if I'm lucky, I might get 1-2 bars of signal.
Maybe.
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The carrier you use won't send you a booster? T-mo loans them out free with a refundable damage deposit.
Re: how much of this is beacuse people use phones? (Score:2)
Please, sit in your living room stymied by this impossible problem. Never mind you coul log on to amazon or head blown to Best Buy and buy a solution to this problem for $150.
Please tell me why your family is letting your grandson fall behind for $150?
Didn't you all get stimulus checks? Wasn't every family member that was collecting unemployment get an extra $600/week for a couple months?
Stop whining and step up.
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Re: how much of this is beacuse people use phones (Score:2)
youre right, his grandson should fall further and further behind in school because the localschool district failed to secure an adequate number of chrome books. What is important is that the local school district owes his grandson a free chrome book, the fact that he could solve his grandsons issue by lunchtime is irrelevant, he should storm the school district offices and demand a free chrome book. It should only take about 4 weeks for the new chrome books to arrive from the state approved vendor after the
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The stepping up already happened. Grandad [me] provided PC and laptops for multiple kids. This particular one...the school Chromebook is supposed to arrive in a couple of days. If not, he gets another one of my laptops for temp use.
So get down off your high horse, and see how things are on the ground.
Luckily, I had a couple to spare from a year or so ago.
Stimulus checks? What does that have to do with anything? Schools "We'll provide systems for all the kids."
One week before
Re: how much of this is beacuse people use phones (Score:2)
First off, you were complaining your grandson was missing education for want of a district-supplied chromebook, now we find out you have equipment he could use, but you are holding back to wait for the district device?
FFS what is the problem? Loan him a laptop, swap it for the chrome book when it arrives, let him be part of the class.
The only problem your grandson has is that grandpa refuses to give him a laptop from the closet until the district device arrives.
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" Please tell me why your family is letting your grandson fall behind for $150? "
Because to you or I, $150 might not seem like much, but to others it can be an either / or choice. There are quite a few folks who are having quite a rough time with this whole pandemic thing. Medically and, especially, financially.
Verizon MVNOs don't teather (Score:2)
Or at least many don't
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Some carriers don't do hotspots unless you sign up for their more expensive plans.
Where I live ( town of 20k ) I get a blistering two bars of cell signal on a very good day. Typically one on your average day.
Go ahead and tell me how to run two remote video sessions AND my own connection to work on two bars and you'll impress me.
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I am currently in between residences (supposedly moving in tonight... we'll see) but the reason I didn't have home internet is that my only option was ATT DSL and they installed it to the wrong unit and their outsourced phone "support" teams failed to fix the problem with three phone calls. Eventually we gave up, and they tried to bill us anyway, but I think they've figured out finally that we didn't use their services because they are dumbfucks.
So yeah, I have internet on my phone... it's the only internet
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I honestly can't say if you are making a joke or if you are so out of touch with reality you are assuming people are starving because they can't realize they can eat cake when out of bread.