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China Says TikTok Sale Shows US 'Economic Bullying' (bloomberg.com) 180

A senior Chinese official accused the U.S., which forced the sale of TikTok on national security grounds, of "economic bullying," while lambasting European Union restrictions on Huawei Technologies, in comments highlighting Beijing's increasing assertiveness against what it sees as unfair treatment from Western governments. From a report: "What has happened with TikTok in the United States is a typical act of coercive possession," the head of the Chinese Mission to the EU, Zhang Ming, said. "Some American politicians are trying to build a so-called clean network under the cover of fairness and reciprocity and blah, blah, blah," Ambassador Zhang said in an interview with Bloomberg TV. "This is nothing but economic bullying."

The Bytedance-owned company has come under pressure in the U.S., where President Donald Trump's ban has forced a sale of TikTok's American operations. TikTok submitted a proposal to the Treasury Department over the weekend in which Oracle will serve as the "trusted technology provider," the software company said. Zhang's comments represent an oft-repeated refrain from Beijing, which has accused Washington of targeting Huawei without evidence and called the forced sale of TikTok U.S. "state-sanctioned theft."

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China Says TikTok Sale Shows US 'Economic Bullying'

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  • That's Hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)

    by quanminoan ( 812306 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:47AM (#60507660)

    This coming from a country that just takes over plants without paying any money and requires government ownership in foreign deals? It's not even a taste of their own medicine - this is kind compared to how they treat the rest of the world.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      It's completely lost on their populace. From their perspective the West owes them for 100 years of humiliation, and they've made no missteps. I sometimes wonder whether it's just the lack of press freedoms - like if there were any, would there be points made on both sides in China? (much in the same way some Americans refuse to admit to any wrongdoing, while others are apologetic -- it paints this picture of a palpable reality that's somewhere in the middle).

      Then I talk to young folks in China, especiall
      • Have you ever heard some of the few people who have escaped North Korea talk about what life (such as it was) was like for them there?
        Information is so tightly controlled there that no common citizen living in North Korea has any idea what's going on in the rest of the world. China isn't quite as bad but it's close. When The State controls all the media then citizens only know what the State wants them to know, and if it's all complete lies then that's all they know. Some of the real world leaks into China
        • Every day around here on Slashdot you can find Chinese operatives trying to convince you that China is blameless of any wrongdoing and that the West is just corrupt and evil.
          And what exactly is China doing atm versus the west that is "wrong"???????

      • From their perspective the West owes them for 100 years of humiliation

        If anybody owes them for that, it would certainly be Japan, beginning with the first Sino-Japanese war in 1894, leading to a long period of civil wars, and followed by yet another invasion and more internal strife. Maybe Mao's Great Leap Forward as well for being influenced by Karl Marx, thus blamable on the west in that sense, but they still support that ideology in their own twisted way, so I doubt that's what they'd be complaining about.

        • every western country owes them.
          As west of the Manchuria dozens of European countries also had invades China. Sorry, seriously, yue have any clue?

    • "This coming from a country that just takes over plants without paying any money "

      Is that true? Has China nationalized some foreign-owned plants there? And without recompense?

      • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:03AM (#60507706) Journal

        Yep. For example, last month they stole Saleen Automotive, a car company.

        • by aitikin ( 909209 )
          Interesting to read through this [latimes.com]. From the looks of it, they swindled Saleen with the contract that he signed (and, it seems, somewhat his ignorance of how business works). It seems, from my extremely limited understanding of the situation, that Charles Xiaolin Wang is almost as much to blame as the Rugao government for not taking care of his partner (who he admits isn't much of a businessman).
        • Here's an interesting story on that (which I didn't know about); it's worth a read.

          https://www.latimes.com/world-... [latimes.com]

          It's not all one-sided and maybe a cautionary tale for both sides, but clearly it didn't pan out. Saleen brought no money to this deal, so at least whatever the Chinese creditors are taking back is stuff they paid for.

        • Yep. For example, last month they stole Saleen Automotive, a car company.

          Damn. You weren't kidding. First I heard of this, and FAR more Americans should hear about it.

          The textbook example of TDS is turning a blind eye to China because Orange Man Bad. This is ignorant, dangerous, and stupid.

        • The Chinese government? Nope ....

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      The Asian "play victim" card is used often in Asia. It's one of the most annoying things I have ever witnessed.

    • In Elementary School, did the kids who got caught fighting, ever gotten away with "They hit me first!"

      I got into some fights in school. I got off from punishment because I just flatly admitted that I punched them first (Even before being asked who did it). That bit of honesty changes the dynamics of the problem, because I then I am now taking responsibility for my action, and I then had the ability to express the conditions that had lead up to it.

      We all (including countries) do bad things. The fact that

      • The way schools manage interpersonal issues is not a good model to follow. Their behavior is molded by avoided liability and lawsuits. Zero tolerance policies are the result of a lack of critical thinking and judging circumstances. In the real world it definitely matters who is the aggressor and replying in kind is the prudent thing to do. This is called a measured proportional response. To do otherwise, in either direction is foolish.

      • We all (including countries) do bad things. The fact that someone did a bad thing first doesn't mean you should too. And if you did do a Bad thing, it doesn't mean you should continue doing it.

        Economic retaliation is useful arm twisting, especially with a literal, not hyperventillated, kleptocracy.

    • Yeah, I was wondering if their complaint is anything like steel dumping. Asking for another country.

    • by rastos1 ( 601318 )
      So you cheer bullying a bully? It's still bullying.
    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      That may be so, but the complaint is still correct. I can easily see justifying keeping Tiktok off government computers, and away from government property. Banning the company, or forcing a sale, however, is something else entirely. It needs a kind of proof which is probably impossible. Probably, though not necessarily, because the claims are false. (And why is Facebook more trusted than Tiktok?)

      OTOH, the claims against Huawei are more reasonable. I can't evaluate whether or not they should be believe

  • Crying Wolf Warrior (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ZackSchil ( 560462 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:56AM (#60507684)

    I am less than sympathetic to China's whining on this when they constantly engage is industrial espionage, have banned virtually all western internet services, created their own shadow internet full of cloned sites, tax foreign goods at preposterous rates, greatly limit the number of foreign movies that can be shown, censor everything, and subject foreign companies to insane levels of scrutiny and oversight. The US is barely returning a taste of what it feels like to work with China and they're howling and rolling around like a flopping soccer player.

    This wolf warrior foreign policy they've been engaging in is hypocritical in the extreme and will win them absolutely zero allies and zero sympathy from anyone who looks at how China actually behaves.

    • So, ummmm... just ban TikTok in the USA. Don't go through all this crap.

      I'm sure we can live without TikTok, or another company will fill the gap in about a week.

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by hackingbear ( 988354 )

      China's whining on this when they constantly engage is industrial espionage,

      and the USA has been [eh.net] and still are doing [dw.com] the same.

      have banned virtually all western internet services,

      but why are most top Chinese internet companies, including ByteDance, are owned / funded by western VCs? (And registered in Cayman Islands.) And that Microsoft's and Apple's internet services are serving over there?

      created their own shadow internet full of cloned sites,

      like the one you are reading here?

      tax foreign goods at preposterous rates, greatly limit the number of foreign movies that can be shown,

      Those are agreed upon by their WTO agreements the US has signed up to, and the same affirmative action rules for developing nations [bloomberg.com] as enjoy by 2/3 of WTO members.

      Why doesn't the US abide by the rules they created

      • clarify: Why doesn't the US abide by the WTO rules the US created and signed up to?

      • Your rebuttals range from weak, to greatly outdated, to non-sequitur, and your posting history speaks for itself. You're a biased and possibly state-sponsored troll and I will not be engaging. It also seems your reputation proceeds you with other posters calling you out by name before even appearing.

  • TikTok is not any kind of real problem. China needs to shut down it's prison camps, but that has nothing to do with Tiktok specifically and MEH on the spying claims. Every corporation is spying on us as much as they can get away with. I've seen no proof of a clandestine spying operation through Tiktok. That SOUNDS like one of those highly exaggerated claims. If you're going to get tough on China, do it because of the prison camps and other major civil rights abuses and anti-democratic behavior, not because
    • This was Trump's revenge for what a bunch of teens did to embarrass him; 1 time. This is EXTREMELY petty and childish dictator behavior and they should call that out because even they don't stoop so low over a 1 time political rally attendance prank.

      TikTok was no real threat and it's impact is momentary; I for one am glad Oracle wasted their money.

    • You're not going to get those prison camps shut down unless you put boots on the ground to do it by force. For the simple reason that the Chinese view Uighur separatism as an existential threat. A member of a nominally pluralistic society under a democratic government may not understand such a mindset viscerally or even intellectually, but I assure you it's quite real. So what option do you have left if nuclear war isn't your cup of tea? Just start disentangling and disengaging. It's all we can do. And trim
  • by bogaboga ( 793279 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:00AM (#60507700)

    ..."Some American politicians are trying to build a so-called clean network...

    The so called "clean network" is one that several US administrations, using its various 3-letter agencies, have *cough* *cough* hacked or compromised as Snowden revealed.

    Without these revelations, we would never have known the practice was taking place over those many years.

    Heck, they continue to deny it to date! And the administration will not even acknowledge anything.

    Hypocrisy at its best I guess...

    • As you pointed out, the US government wanted the US government to have the ability to do things with the internet in the US. They didn't want the Chinese government to control the internet in the US.

      You could call that hypocrisy, you could call it sovereignty. Perhaps it's a bit of both.

      I'm glad that at least some of the mass data collection has come to an end. More work is needed in this area to protect against mass data collection by the government. I do hope we don't swing TOO far the other way when it

      • As you pointed out, the US government wanted the US government to have the ability to do things with the internet in the US. They didn't want the Chinese government to control the internet in the US.

        Chancellor Merkel will disagree with you as the USA, through some 3 letter agency, was caught (red handed), spying.

        Germany is not in the USA - the last time I checked.

        • Are you saying that because the NSA tapped Merkel's phone, that means they did NOT also want to access the internet in the US?

          The US internet isn't Merkel's phone, last I checked.

          ----

          The US wants their network to be free of foreign spies, Germany wants their network free of foreign spies; Germany, the US, China all want to spy in each other. The US CIA amd Germany's BND teamed up to co-own Crypto AG in order to spy on Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other countries. These things aren't mutually incompatibl

      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        I have my doubts that any of the mass data collection has come to an end. Moved agencies, perhaps, or gotten the project renamed. They aren't transparent enough to show that they've quit, and they lie too often for me to believe their simple assertions.

  • by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:05AM (#60507716)
    Or did they really think the free money train was going to keep coming?
  • You're not allowed to start a business in many industries, and many others demand at least 51% Chinese ownership.
    • You're not allowed to start a business in many industries, and many others demand at least 51% Chinese ownership.

      So? Replicate all China's own rules vis-à-vis Chinese companies in the US. The Chinese will get the message of what it means to have a level playing field a lot sooner that way than if you whine like a little bitch and slap tariffs on random Chinese consumer goods. Then recruit other countries to do the same and negotiate a new trade framework with Chi... oh ... right ... the Orange One already burned those bridges ...

  • obv (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shentino ( 1139071 ) <shentino@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:12AM (#60507744)

    HA

    Cry me a fucking river China you've blatantly backed your own domestic companies and looked the other way while they ripped off our IP.

    • HA

      Cry me a fucking river China you've blatantly backed your own domestic companies and looked the other way while they ripped off our IP.

      Uh, looked the other way?

      Their government demands ownership, and yet you assume they don't have a direct hand in IP theft? Give me a break. That's like busting Edward Snowden and assuming the NSA had no idea that highly illegal mass surveillance systems were running inside their own data centers.

      (NSA) "Oh wow, is THAT what was running on there? I thought we were running a Minecraft server..."

      Riiiight.

  • by sentiblue ( 3535839 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:18AM (#60507762)
    If China stops banning google, facebook, sourceforge, twitter, and hundreds of other sites... also stop stealing US consumer's data, stop stealing US technologies then we'll stop bullying. We don't ban China's stuffs before. We've already been too easy on them.
  • by djp2204 ( 713741 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:21AM (#60507776)
    Chinese policy on forced IP transfers and indebtedness towards Africa show Chinese economic bullying
  • Ya China never bullies anyone...

    • Ya China never bullies anyone...

      Of course it does, Uncle Sam has been an excellent teacher.

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      It's had excellent teachers. Look up the Boxer rebellion or the opium wars. The US was only a minor player, though, because we were busy being isolationist. And imposing rules like "No Chinese person can own land.". (Of course, California wasn't part of the US when that started, but I didn't learn when the rule got repealed. But that's why so many Chinese operated laundries and grocery stores during the gold rush days.)

  • by I75BJC ( 4590021 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @11:50AM (#60508122)
    China, you bullied the USA renewal energy industry by swamping the USA market with cheap (in price and quality, as it turns out) photocell panel. Drove the USA manufacturers out of business.
    You didn't cry then, did you?

    Kinda tough when the bully gets her own medicine, huh?
    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      They did that using our rules. If we didn't like it, we should have changed the rules. The banning of Tiktok is based on lies, and violates our own rules. Not the same, or even comparable.

      Yes, we should have changed our rules earlier. Yes, we should change them now. No, we shouldn't lie about what we're doing and break our own rules.

  • Funny how we now get alle the American comments with some variation of 'but China did it too!'.

    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Both China and the US have run illegal imprisonment camps. The rest of the world just thinks you both suck with this nonsense.

    I guess the EU is now also free to ban US companies?

  • China is the person that screams "OWWW!!" at the top of their lungs every time they're criticized.

  • I have long thought this post from China Law Blog is an interesting perspective on commercial deals with Chinese entities:

    https://www.chinalawblog.com/2... [chinalawblog.com]

    Excerpt:

    Intellectual property protection that prevents the Chinese side from copying your equipment is just another form of foreign oppression.

    (Warning: the blog is very good, so you may get lost in it)

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      Yeah. I don't think much of the Chinese actions. But I don't criticize them much, because they're not my country. I feel, though, that the US should honor it's own laws, and not violate them. If they need to be changed, change them.

      I'd be fine with removing China's "Most favored nation" status, unless that's already been done. I'm not fine with breaking our own laws to score points in a trade negotiation.

  • by trawg ( 308495 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @04:31PM (#60509218) Homepage

    Lot of people saying "haha sucked in China" on this issue - fair enough, some good reasons to be happy when China stumbles.

    But one lesson that they've learned here is that they can make a local company that penetrates into the US market in weird and unusual ways (e.g. an app for children that lets them show off dance moves? Isn't that all this is?!), and then trick not only the US government but also giant American corporations into buying them for wads of cash to make them stop.

    So while China are crying about "coercive possession" to make the American system think that they're unhappy with this state of affairs, part of me is wondering what their app developers are cooking up next now that they have more information about not only what upsets everybody, but how to monetise it.

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