China Says TikTok Sale Shows US 'Economic Bullying' (bloomberg.com) 180
A senior Chinese official accused the U.S., which forced the sale of TikTok on national security grounds, of "economic bullying," while lambasting European Union restrictions on Huawei Technologies, in comments highlighting Beijing's increasing assertiveness against what it sees as unfair treatment from Western governments. From a report: "What has happened with TikTok in the United States is a typical act of coercive possession," the head of the Chinese Mission to the EU, Zhang Ming, said. "Some American politicians are trying to build a so-called clean network under the cover of fairness and reciprocity and blah, blah, blah," Ambassador Zhang said in an interview with Bloomberg TV. "This is nothing but economic bullying."
The Bytedance-owned company has come under pressure in the U.S., where President Donald Trump's ban has forced a sale of TikTok's American operations. TikTok submitted a proposal to the Treasury Department over the weekend in which Oracle will serve as the "trusted technology provider," the software company said. Zhang's comments represent an oft-repeated refrain from Beijing, which has accused Washington of targeting Huawei without evidence and called the forced sale of TikTok U.S. "state-sanctioned theft."
The Bytedance-owned company has come under pressure in the U.S., where President Donald Trump's ban has forced a sale of TikTok's American operations. TikTok submitted a proposal to the Treasury Department over the weekend in which Oracle will serve as the "trusted technology provider," the software company said. Zhang's comments represent an oft-repeated refrain from Beijing, which has accused Washington of targeting Huawei without evidence and called the forced sale of TikTok U.S. "state-sanctioned theft."
That's Hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)
This coming from a country that just takes over plants without paying any money and requires government ownership in foreign deals? It's not even a taste of their own medicine - this is kind compared to how they treat the rest of the world.
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Then I talk to young folks in China, especiall
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Information is so tightly controlled there that no common citizen living in North Korea has any idea what's going on in the rest of the world. China isn't quite as bad but it's close. When The State controls all the media then citizens only know what the State wants them to know, and if it's all complete lies then that's all they know. Some of the real world leaks into China
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Every day around here on Slashdot you can find Chinese operatives trying to convince you that China is blameless of any wrongdoing and that the West is just corrupt and evil.
And what exactly is China doing atm versus the west that is "wrong"???????
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From their perspective the West owes them for 100 years of humiliation
If anybody owes them for that, it would certainly be Japan, beginning with the first Sino-Japanese war in 1894, leading to a long period of civil wars, and followed by yet another invasion and more internal strife. Maybe Mao's Great Leap Forward as well for being influenced by Karl Marx, thus blamable on the west in that sense, but they still support that ideology in their own twisted way, so I doubt that's what they'd be complaining about.
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every western country owes them.
As west of the Manchuria dozens of European countries also had invades China. Sorry, seriously, yue have any clue?
Re: That's Hilarious (Score:2)
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That's be the "China is bad!" line, which is being used by Trump to distract people from the real issues in the election run-up
(eg. The rioting on the streets, the bodies still piling up in hospitals, the massive deficit...)
Re: That's Hilarious (Score:2)
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The arguments in favor of China being bad far outnumber any arguments against. Assuming we look past the whole bits about China being a surveillance state that oppresses any form of real democracy, it's really hard to look past their current effort towards ethnic cleansing, which if the UN wasn't merely a puppet show, would be persecuted as a crime against humanity.
But no, China's not bad because...reasons...
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The United States has no real democracy either - so about what are you complaining?
If you understand the Chinese system: it is 100 times more democratic than yours.
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Which line is that? The 'murica fuck yeah line or the defund the police line.
No, the line is: MAGA!!!
Say what you will about sloppy thinking among our youth and among our aging 60s radicals who still think of themselves as perpetual youth, you cannot say we suppress self-criticism.
Go to a Trump rally, tell them Trump is a misogynist, a racist and an abject business failure who bankrupted six casinos and failed at a whole legion of other ventures and then went on to mishandle the biggest pandemic since 1918 thus needlessly prolonging the resultant economic downturn and see how well they take that criticism. If I've learned one thing about Americans it's that in their own mind most of them consider themselves to be the best at everything that there has ever bee
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Does line-towing require a special sort of trailer hitch?
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That's hilarious given your comments. You aren't even trying to hide the shilling.
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Does line-towing require a special sort of trailer hitch?
That's hilarious given your comments. You aren't even trying to hide the shilling.
Grandparent was likely pointing out that proper usage is "toe the line" rather than "tow the line".
Of course, the value of correcting grammar on an internet message board is dubious. (And yet, here I am, alas)
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Is that true? Has China nationalized some foreign-owned plants there? And without recompense?
Last month they stole a car company, for example (Score:5, Informative)
Yep. For example, last month they stole Saleen Automotive, a car company.
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https://www.latimes.com/world-... [latimes.com]
It's not all one-sided and maybe a cautionary tale for both sides, but clearly it didn't pan out. Saleen brought no money to this deal, so at least whatever the Chinese creditors are taking back is stuff they paid for.
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Yep. For example, last month they stole Saleen Automotive, a car company.
Damn. You weren't kidding. First I heard of this, and FAR more Americans should hear about it.
The textbook example of TDS is turning a blind eye to China because Orange Man Bad. This is ignorant, dangerous, and stupid.
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The Chinese government? Nope ....
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The Asian "play victim" card is used often in Asia. It's one of the most annoying things I have ever witnessed.
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They do not play a victim card.
They play the white devil card.
Grasp the difference, or don't. Up to you.
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In Elementary School, did the kids who got caught fighting, ever gotten away with "They hit me first!"
I got into some fights in school. I got off from punishment because I just flatly admitted that I punched them first (Even before being asked who did it). That bit of honesty changes the dynamics of the problem, because I then I am now taking responsibility for my action, and I then had the ability to express the conditions that had lead up to it.
We all (including countries) do bad things. The fact that
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The way schools manage interpersonal issues is not a good model to follow. Their behavior is molded by avoided liability and lawsuits. Zero tolerance policies are the result of a lack of critical thinking and judging circumstances. In the real world it definitely matters who is the aggressor and replying in kind is the prudent thing to do. This is called a measured proportional response. To do otherwise, in either direction is foolish.
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We all (including countries) do bad things. The fact that someone did a bad thing first doesn't mean you should too. And if you did do a Bad thing, it doesn't mean you should continue doing it.
Economic retaliation is useful arm twisting, especially with a literal, not hyperventillated, kleptocracy.
Steel dumping (Score:3)
Yeah, I was wondering if their complaint is anything like steel dumping. Asking for another country.
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That may be so, but the complaint is still correct. I can easily see justifying keeping Tiktok off government computers, and away from government property. Banning the company, or forcing a sale, however, is something else entirely. It needs a kind of proof which is probably impossible. Probably, though not necessarily, because the claims are false. (And why is Facebook more trusted than Tiktok?)
OTOH, the claims against Huawei are more reasonable. I can't evaluate whether or not they should be believe
Does genocide count as bullying? (Score:2)
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Crying Wolf Warrior (Score:5, Interesting)
I am less than sympathetic to China's whining on this when they constantly engage is industrial espionage, have banned virtually all western internet services, created their own shadow internet full of cloned sites, tax foreign goods at preposterous rates, greatly limit the number of foreign movies that can be shown, censor everything, and subject foreign companies to insane levels of scrutiny and oversight. The US is barely returning a taste of what it feels like to work with China and they're howling and rolling around like a flopping soccer player.
This wolf warrior foreign policy they've been engaging in is hypocritical in the extreme and will win them absolutely zero allies and zero sympathy from anyone who looks at how China actually behaves.
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So, ummmm... just ban TikTok in the USA. Don't go through all this crap.
I'm sure we can live without TikTok, or another company will fill the gap in about a week.
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China's whining on this when they constantly engage is industrial espionage,
and the USA has been [eh.net] and still are doing [dw.com] the same.
have banned virtually all western internet services,
but why are most top Chinese internet companies, including ByteDance, are owned / funded by western VCs? (And registered in Cayman Islands.) And that Microsoft's and Apple's internet services are serving over there?
created their own shadow internet full of cloned sites,
like the one you are reading here?
tax foreign goods at preposterous rates, greatly limit the number of foreign movies that can be shown,
Those are agreed upon by their WTO agreements the US has signed up to, and the same affirmative action rules for developing nations [bloomberg.com] as enjoy by 2/3 of WTO members.
Why doesn't the US abide by the rules they created
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clarify: Why doesn't the US abide by the WTO rules the US created and signed up to?
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Your rebuttals range from weak, to greatly outdated, to non-sequitur, and your posting history speaks for itself. You're a biased and possibly state-sponsored troll and I will not be engaging. It also seems your reputation proceeds you with other posters calling you out by name before even appearing.
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The WTO rules do not limit the number of foreign movies that can be shown in China.
WTO said you're wrong [wto.org].
The World's 2nd largest economy, which claims to have surpassed the US in technology, cannot at the same time be a "developing nation"
"Developing" is not defined by technology prowess (*), nor even overall GDP.
From a story I posted but got rejected yesterday:
Surprisingly, there is no formal definition [wikipedia.org] for developing nation status or process to alter a nation's status under the WTO framework, which was created by the United States to rip the benefits of globalization, but according to IMF 2019 estimations [wikipedia.org], China is ranked number 65 at a per-capita GDP of $10,098, while the US is ranked number 7 at $65,111.
I should add
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The GDP has absolutely nothing to do with how developed a country is.
Just double all prices (as Greece did) and you doubled your GPD - oops that was easy.
USA is a third world country, no working infrastructure, no working power grid, no working internet, poisoned tap water etc. p.p. No affordable health care.
Thailand has a low GDP, but is one of the top three rice exporters of the world. The health care system works just like in Germany, or any other first world country.
My internet is faster than my Wifi ro
It's a stupid move from the US (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes it is bullying, China should know! (Score:3, Insightful)
This was Trump's revenge for what a bunch of teens did to embarrass him; 1 time. This is EXTREMELY petty and childish dictator behavior and they should call that out because even they don't stoop so low over a 1 time political rally attendance prank.
TikTok was no real threat and it's impact is momentary; I for one am glad Oracle wasted their money.
Re: It's a stupid move from the US (Score:3, Insightful)
I am not so sure about the "clean network..." (Score:4, Informative)
..."Some American politicians are trying to build a so-called clean network...
The so called "clean network" is one that several US administrations, using its various 3-letter agencies, have *cough* *cough* hacked or compromised as Snowden revealed.
Without these revelations, we would never have known the practice was taking place over those many years.
Heck, they continue to deny it to date! And the administration will not even acknowledge anything.
Hypocrisy at its best I guess...
Hypocrisy or sovereignty, or both (Score:2)
As you pointed out, the US government wanted the US government to have the ability to do things with the internet in the US. They didn't want the Chinese government to control the internet in the US.
You could call that hypocrisy, you could call it sovereignty. Perhaps it's a bit of both.
I'm glad that at least some of the mass data collection has come to an end. More work is needed in this area to protect against mass data collection by the government. I do hope we don't swing TOO far the other way when it
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As you pointed out, the US government wanted the US government to have the ability to do things with the internet in the US. They didn't want the Chinese government to control the internet in the US.
Chancellor Merkel will disagree with you as the USA, through some 3 letter agency, was caught (red handed), spying.
Germany is not in the USA - the last time I checked.
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Are you saying that because the NSA tapped Merkel's phone, that means they did NOT also want to access the internet in the US?
The US internet isn't Merkel's phone, last I checked.
----
The US wants their network to be free of foreign spies, Germany wants their network free of foreign spies; Germany, the US, China all want to spy in each other. The US CIA amd Germany's BND teamed up to co-own Crypto AG in order to spy on Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other countries. These things aren't mutually incompatibl
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I have my doubts that any of the mass data collection has come to an end. Moved agencies, perhaps, or gotten the project renamed. They aren't transparent enough to show that they've quit, and they lie too often for me to believe their simple assertions.
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re: "Trust me, Hong Kong's residents will be just fine"...
Everyone should have seen that coming. Many definitely did. Nobody knew the timing. Countries tend to keep their treaties when the balance of power is relatively equal. As it becomes less balanced, the treaties are less honored. Sorry about that. The honor of countries is largely a myth. Many people have honor and are trustworthy. But the more powerful they are, the less likely this is. I don't know whether it's cause, effect, or some sort o
What goes around comes around (Score:3)
China knows about economic bullying... (Score:2)
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You're not allowed to start a business in many industries, and many others demand at least 51% Chinese ownership.
So? Replicate all China's own rules vis-à-vis Chinese companies in the US. The Chinese will get the message of what it means to have a level playing field a lot sooner that way than if you whine like a little bitch and slap tariffs on random Chinese consumer goods. Then recruit other countries to do the same and negotiate a new trade framework with Chi... oh ... right ... the Orange One already burned those bridges ...
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No. The Tiktok thing is a violation of our own rules. You don't get the thing to work by violation of your own rules, you change the rules. If you don't change the rules, then it's just unpredictable bullying. Especially when you lie about the reasons.
obv (Score:5, Insightful)
HA
Cry me a fucking river China you've blatantly backed your own domestic companies and looked the other way while they ripped off our IP.
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HA
Cry me a fucking river China you've blatantly backed your own domestic companies and looked the other way while they ripped off our IP.
Uh, looked the other way?
Their government demands ownership, and yet you assume they don't have a direct hand in IP theft? Give me a break. That's like busting Edward Snowden and assuming the NSA had no idea that highly illegal mass surveillance systems were running inside their own data centers.
(NSA) "Oh wow, is THAT what was running on there? I thought we were running a Minecraft server..."
Riiiight.
It's not even close to even yet (Score:5, Insightful)
And (Score:3)
Well Look Whos Calling the Kettle Black (Score:2)
Ya China never bullies anyone...
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Ya China never bullies anyone...
Of course it does, Uncle Sam has been an excellent teacher.
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It's had excellent teachers. Look up the Boxer rebellion or the opium wars. The US was only a minor player, though, because we were busy being isolationist. And imposing rules like "No Chinese person can own land.". (Of course, California wasn't part of the US when that started, but I didn't learn when the rule got repealed. But that's why so many Chinese operated laundries and grocery stores during the gold rush days.)
Et Tu, China? (Score:3)
You didn't cry then, did you?
Kinda tough when the bully gets her own medicine, huh?
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They did that using our rules. If we didn't like it, we should have changed the rules. The banning of Tiktok is based on lies, and violates our own rules. Not the same, or even comparable.
Yes, we should have changed our rules earlier. Yes, we should change them now. No, we shouldn't lie about what we're doing and break our own rules.
'But he did it too!' (Score:2)
Funny how we now get alle the American comments with some variation of 'but China did it too!'.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Both China and the US have run illegal imprisonment camps. The rest of the world just thinks you both suck with this nonsense.
I guess the EU is now also free to ban US companies?
Fuck china. (Score:2)
China is the person that screams "OWWW!!" at the top of their lungs every time they're criticized.
Business matters (Score:2)
I have long thought this post from China Law Blog is an interesting perspective on commercial deals with Chinese entities:
https://www.chinalawblog.com/2... [chinalawblog.com]
Excerpt:
Intellectual property protection that prevents the Chinese side from copying your equipment is just another form of foreign oppression.
(Warning: the blog is very good, so you may get lost in it)
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Yeah. I don't think much of the Chinese actions. But I don't criticize them much, because they're not my country. I feel, though, that the US should honor it's own laws, and not violate them. If they need to be changed, change them.
I'd be fine with removing China's "Most favored nation" status, unless that's already been done. I'm not fine with breaking our own laws to score points in a trade negotiation.
Did China win this one though? (Score:4, Interesting)
Lot of people saying "haha sucked in China" on this issue - fair enough, some good reasons to be happy when China stumbles.
But one lesson that they've learned here is that they can make a local company that penetrates into the US market in weird and unusual ways (e.g. an app for children that lets them show off dance moves? Isn't that all this is?!), and then trick not only the US government but also giant American corporations into buying them for wads of cash to make them stop.
So while China are crying about "coercive possession" to make the American system think that they're unhappy with this state of affairs, part of me is wondering what their app developers are cooking up next now that they have more information about not only what upsets everybody, but how to monetise it.
Re:Bloomberg TV (Score:4, Insightful)
Compared to the interests of the other New York City Billionaire?
You know the one with Disapproval ratings over 50% consistently.
I am not saying Bloomberg is aligned with American values. However his own ambitions are around "I should do things that makes the place better, than people will love me" vs. "I will only make things better for the people who love me, and I will punish those who do not love me"
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Compared to the interests of the other New York City Billionaire?
You know the one with Disapproval ratings over 50% consistently.
I am not saying Bloomberg is aligned with American values. However his own ambitions are around "I should do things that makes the place better, than people will love me" vs. "I will only make things better for the people who love me, and I will punish those who do not love me"
Really? You're going to single out Trump for wanting to punish those who do not love him?
"We're gonna punish our enemies, and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us" -- Barack Obama, 10/25/2010 Interview with Univision. In the days following the interview, he sort of apologized, saying he should have used the word "opponents" instead of "enemies", but he didn't back away from the idea of punishing those who disagree with his policies.
Now, no one is going to mist
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Enemy or opponent is different from "not praising on me enough"
Re:Bloomberg TV (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think the interests of Bloomberg are aligned with the majority of Americans. He should be completely ignored when it comes to policies.
No billionaire's interests align with the majority of Americans. But they keep in power with bullshit distraction issues.
While healthcare keeps becoming more and more expensive with worse outcomes than other western countries. [harvard.edu] We are told to worry about illegal immigrants. While college as become too expensive for most of us, we are told to be frightened about socialism. While businesses are now allowed to pollute and poison us [cnn.com]. we are told to be afraid of some mythical organization called "Antifa". Because, as we all know, anarchists organize and have meetings and band together.
And we have a population of of completely deluded assholes [religionnews.com] who are ruining this country because of their irrational beliefs.
I would like to thank Christians for wearing their religion on their sleeve so I know who are the gullible useful idiots. Yes, yes I do now hate all of them. And I'm enraged at people who cannot get out and vote because of bullshit like "the candidate didn't inspire me" allowing those morons to gain power. Fucking Democrats who cannot be bothered to vote unless they feel "motivated". - but when shit doesn't go their way, low and behold, they have plenty of time to get out and protest. If they fucking voted as their duty says, we wouldn't have Trump and a bunch of religious kooks running the show. Religion == stupidity.
Vote Blue no matter who because the Republicans are destroying this country.
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In the UK, we have a crappy voting system because (say) in my local area, it doesn't really matter who you vote for, we'll end up sending a Conservative MP to parliament. Thus, if you prefer some other party, your vote is sort of "lost" because it gets rolled up into "one conservative seat". This happens in about 650 separate "zones" in the UK - albeit some of them are "swing seats" that don't' have such a strong favour for one particular party. That said, I can vote inside about 15 minutes (in a place that
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Also I want voter ID, so that my vote isn't trampled by fake votes. It wasn't that long ago a college near me was found to have been faking enrollment with dead people, the same scrutiny if not more should be occurring for votes. The idea that this sort of thing is not happening is unsupported as we'll we just aren't even checking at this point. Vote fraud currently has some ser
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If you worry about Antifa, you have a mental problem.
You have "militia" in your country running around demonstrations with the claim "we prevent looting", seriously?
You live in the most absurd country thinkable. What is the name of Batman's City again?
Response to your rant about Christianity (Score:2)
I’m a Christian, as is my business partner running a $20million high tech electronic engineering company for over 25years. At my local church, most people are professionals, engineers, doctors, lawyers etc. Christians have better life satisfaction outcomes.
Don’t conflate your selfish American culture for those who use and abuse religion for their own gain.
Re:Bloomberg TV (Score:4, Insightful)
Democrats have not lost their minds, you have succumbed to vile propaganda. Remember when Obama wore the wrong suit? Or ate the wrong mustard? Oh, the horror.
Look, Democrats are not rioting, burning and looting. That's a fucking lie. They are not going to defund the police. Also a lie. They will not take your guns. More fucking lies. They will not raise taxes on the middle class. They will not outlaw Christianity.
Joe Biden is no different than any Reagan-era republicans. He's center right in all respects. Your side won. There is no left-wing in America. It's all centrism and right wing. If you don't stop now though, a new left will rise. Just take your win and be happy.
Name me one fucking thing that the Democratic party wants that Reagan would not have supported. I'll wait.
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>Democrats have not lost their minds, you have succumbed to vile propaganda.
Fun. I have to prove a negative (I have not succumbed to vile propaganda) to validate my own opinion which you will likely dismiss regardless because "vile propaganda".
I could say even Biden wants to ban guns [twitter.com]. (for those nitpicking assault rifle is a useless term so broad it can mean anything)
I could show examples of defunding [nypost.com].
I could mention the number of riots burning cities that have been in the news for months.
But that doesn'
Re:Bloomberg TV (Score:4, Funny)
Confirmation Bias on parade!
Yes, yes. Because Biden himself is smashing windows, tossing Molotov Cocktails into buildings, and running down the street with a big screen TV in his hands. Sure, sure.
Because all Democrats want to abolish law enforcement completely and live in Anarchy. Riiiight.
They want to make your sons and daughters have gay sex and force them to have sex change operations, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!11!!!
They'll insist your wife enjoy Big Black Cock as reparations for slavery! REEEEEEEEEEEE!!!11!!!
You're ridiculous.
Re:Bloomberg TV (Score:4, Insightful)
Biden NEVER said anything about taking guns.
Antifa is NOT a real organization. it never has been. Although, liars want to make it a real organization so they can falsely say there is something radical on the left to use the "both sides" argument when countering the growing right-wing militants who are causing violence in this country.
The fact is that conservatives - especially Republicans - have opinions that are not based on reality. It's all based on lies and half-truths. Their entire platform is based upon made up fears that will NEVER happen.
One time, republicans based their opinions on facts. Since the propaganda outfits like Fox News came to be, Newt Gingrich corrupting the party and now with Trump, Republicans are in some crazy fantasy land that has no relevance to reality.
Illegal immigration was never a huge problem. No one wants to take yer guns. The Democrats are NOT socialists - although some like to call themselves Social Democrats which just means they want more social safety nets - like Medicare and Social Security that all Conservatives LOVE.
We have some serious problems and more coming our way. Global warming, unaffordable healthcare (Trump's executive order did jack-shit), ever increasing college costs and a steady decline in wages and our standard of living. ALL are NOT being addressed by Republicans. You may be old and it's not your problem. But I can tell you this, most young people think Republicans and conservatives in general are stupid and do not care about them.
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Joe Biden is proposing to force owners of assault-style rifles to either sell their firearms through a voluntary buyback program or register them with the federal government under the same law that was first used to strictly control sales of machine guns in the wake of the gangland shootings of the 1920s and '30s. [cnn.com] - So take them now, or have them easily traced to be taken later (like they did with machine guns).
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You are frankly insane. You think weakness is strength. You think honor is corruption. And of course, you only speak in vague generalities and appeals to emotion.
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Absolutely epic! 10/10 in lack of self awareness.
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That's an "I'm rubber, you're glue" level comeback, bud. Do better.
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Replying to your own sock puppet is gauche.
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And yours must be the number of times a woman turned you down.
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Not what I was expecting. Gave me a chuckle. Fuck it, let's just call a truce for now, I'm sure we'll have something more to spar over another day.
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Re: Bloomberg TV (Score:2)
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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I can't speak for Republicans, but as a libertarian-leaning Democrat:
I don't want to be rude, but I don't know where to start with this hyperbolic nonsense. Who's saying anyone deserved to be murdered, or any purely minor offender deserved to be shot?
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and so on. (I haven't even scratched the surface here, have I?)
David Cross has you covered: https://youtu.be/S1wkqZIJOAQ?t... [youtu.be]
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I see you've provided affirmative action, which is an attempt to fix systemic racism, as your example of democrats promoting racism, and I guess, losing their minds? Affirmative action is certainly a controversial solution, and while I think it does more good than harm, it's a reasonable topic of discussion that could have a lot of good points on both sides.
As a counterpoint for the Republican side, I'd like to b
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Also note this that you won't find written down anywhere in the GOP age
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- the children of asylum seekers deserve to be put in torture camps
- that black people who are suspected of committing minor offenses or who defend themselves against gun wielding stalkers or who have committed some minor crime in the past deserve to be murdered
- that peaceful protestors should be met with a violent r
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No he shouldn't be cancelled. It's worth listening because China obviously isn't going to ignore this forever and it's just a question of when they really start serious retaliation.
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CNN, Bloomberg, The Atlantic, NYT, WaPo and The Hill don't agree with my politics, therefore they're 'bad' and you should not listen to anything they have to say!
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