UK Risks Losing Contract For New Climate Research Centre Because of Brexit (theguardian.com) 119
The UK is at risk of losing the contract for the expansion of a flagship European weather research centre based in Reading because of Brexit. From a report: The European Centre for Medium Range Weather Forecasts (ECMWF) has been based in Berkshire for the last 45 years but its future EU-funded activities are now the subject of an international battle. At stake is a planned new facility with up to 250 jobs, and nine countries -- including France, Germany, Spain, Ireland and Italy -- are vying for the business. "As a consequence of Brexit, a competition to relocate all ECMWF EU-funded activities from Reading in the UK to an EU member state is taking place during 2020," an official briefing note from one member state said. ECMWF, which is also a key body for climate-change research, is backed by 34 countries, 22 of them EU member states. In addition to weather forecasting, it operates a number of EU-funded programmes, including two services from the EU's Copernicus satellite Earth-observation programme, monitoring the atmosphere and the climate crisis.
Stability and Consistancy. (Score:5, Interesting)
People want to work with governments that are stable, and consistent. In many ways this is more important than Ideology, or Human Rights. If you are going to put down money to do something you feel important, you don't want it tossed out the window because the government decides it no longer likes you today, then the next day it likes you again. Causing you to spend your time Contracting and Expanding.
Brexit puts a lot of questions on what is going to happen next, how much work will it be to work with outers and will the government support your efforts.
Re:Stability and Consistancy. (Score:5, Informative)
There's also politics to consider - when the EU spends EU money, they like to spend it on EU companies in EU countries where it will boost EU economies in ways reflect well on the EU representatives and help them keep their jobs.
You wouldn't expect the UK parliament to vote to spend a bunch of UK tax dollars on facilities in Spain, and the reverse is also true. Brexit granted the UK greater political autonomy, but it shouldn't be at all surprising that it's also resulting in gradual a withdrawal of EU support for UK-based projects.
Re:Stability and Consistancy. (Score:4, Funny)
Actually the British parliament did vote to build a new EU border in the Irish Sea. Johnson said it was a great deal, oven ready.
Of course he thinks it's shit now. Must be pretty upset with the idiot who negotiated it and signed the legally binding treaty.
Re:Stability and Consistancy. (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:More like (Score:4, Interesting)
The EU punishing someone for daring to leave.
The last time some folks dared to leave the USA . . . we fought a long and nasty war over it.
If California or Texas would decide to leave the Union tomorrow, you could guess that Washington, DC wouldn't be too keen on sending either state money.
Re: (Score:1)
The EU isn't punishing the EU. It's actually been remarkably generous and is offering the UK the same terms as everyone else.
The basis of the Single Market is that it's a level playing field. Everyone has the same rules, the same costs, so they can all compete fairly. The UK is demanding access while giving itself huge advantages like state aid to companies and lower standards.
The Single Market is about 7x as big as the UK market, so obviously given a choice the EU is going to pick the Single Market every t
Re: (Score:3)
The EU should spend money outside the EU for no particular reason? Tell me, when is the UK going to fund a research facility in Germany? This is something the UK chose when they chose they didn't want to be part of the EU any more. It's not a punishment, it's an inevitable consequence, and is one of the things Brexiters were warned of before the vote.
Re: (Score:1)
How much money is the EU spending on China? How about all the European engineering companies who build the infrastructure in the middle east? Oh that's fine I suppose but fuck Britain for no reason in particular.
Re: (Score:2)
"How much money is the EU spending on China?"
As far as I know, none. But it's not a subject I can claim to follow closely and I assume you would not bring up the point unless you had evidence to the contrary, so let's see it.
"How about all the European engineering companies who build the infrastructure in the middle east?"
This is inane; the Eurpean engineering companies are getting paid, and quite well paid, for their work. I will agree that the UK has a right to expect an EU research center if the UK is
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Britain was tired of unelected officials in Belgium dictating how many refugees they must absorb.
You have an unelected House of Lords in the freaking heart of your "Democracy" that is completely unaccountable to UK citizens!
At least EU officials are indirectly elected in their respective nations, and not just simply appointed by the grace of whoever is current PM, as in your medieval era House of Lords!
Get real man.
Re: (Score:2)
You're being a little unfair here. "[S]imply appointed by the grace of whoever is current PM". The current PM being democratically elected, that would be another form of indirect election. It should also be added that the House of Lords has been only about 5% heriditary nobles and church officials for over twenty years now. The other 95% hold their seats because they were directly appointed by a democratically elected government (and will not be passing their seats on to their heirs).
Re: (Score:2)
Minor correction here: the percentage of heritary nobles and church officials in the House of Lords is actually 13% (104 out of 795, with three seats for heriditary nobles currently unfilled). My apologies.
Re: (Score:2)
EU officials have proven themselves by rising through the ranks of their political party, that was voted for by people and finally received their position in the EU by some kind of consensus and appointment process within the party.
A PM directly appointing people into a house of parliament is an invitation for favoritism and cronyism, a state of affairs which Boris Johnson has taken full advantage of [economist.com].
Title not quite accurate (Score:2)
The actual computers will be elsewhere, this is just offices and AFAICT only part if the centre. Anyway, itll go to France or Germany, no other country has a chance if one of them wants it as they pay the EUs bill's.
Re:Title not quite accurate (Score:4, Insightful)
You are silly.
Basically every EU country has a chance, and front line are indeed France - as they have a big climate research center. Or Denmark - as they also have an international leading research center. However the EU also likes to spread out stuff. So Spain or Italy are by far not out of the question, nor is any of the smaller new members, like the Baltic states.
Re: (Score:3)
Going by the language of the largest group it would be German but the Germans have not pushed this idea.
Pre WWII French was the international language of diplomacy but after the war was over (American) English quickly became the de-facto language of commerce and a little slower for diplomacy.
The French saw Brexit as an opportunity to recover the importance of their language but reality shows English is going to stay as the Lingua Franca of the E
Re: (Score:2)
In that regard, pre-WWII, German was the international scientific language. It didn't hold of course., if only due to the mass migration of German scientists both pre- during and after the war.
Oh, and about that language advantage of English in the EU, the Irish, and probably soon the Scottish beg to differ (Gaelic and Scottish are spoken a lot less than English in those territories). ;)
And the Dutch won't mind which language 'wins', by the way
Re: (Score:2)
It still is. Read your passport. What languages are on there? French, plus your national language. Maybe several national languages. But always French. Thank (IIRC) the League of Nations.
Ce n'est pas un problÃme. Tout le monde parle FranÃais. Sauf toi, peut Ãtre?
Re: (Score:3)
Is that supposed to be funny? Because Poe's law is strong in this one. If you are actually serious, English is still one of the official EU languages because of Ireland and Malta.
Re: (Score:2)
If the facility is an international facility they speak english.
And speaking the language of your host country hardly is an inconvenience, unless you are an American.
The EU are really screwed without English to share communications, now everyone will have to learn at least, German, French, Italian, Spanish and still learn English, just never ever use it in the EU, funny as when you stop to think about the chaos now in the EU as they attempt to communicate with no shared language.
That is not "funny".
You are
Im sure every English man shouts (Score:1)
NOOOOOOOOO
Re: (Score:3)
NOOOOOOOOO
Your education has been sadly neglected.
Every English schoolboy knows that they shout "Ni!" [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Im sure evewy English man shouts (Score:1)
I am gweatful to know, now, that evewy English man considew him self as a knight.
Thewe i have cowwected my self
Risks? (Score:2)
No! The EU doesn't have such institutes outside the EU, period!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
No! The EU doesn't have such institutes outside the EU, period!
So . . . like . . . since when has Chile been in the EU: European Southern Observatory [wikipedia.org] . . . ?
Re: (Score:2)
The reason for Chile (and not a European country) is that Chile, unlike Europe, is in the Southern Hemisphere. The Andes it seems were apparently preferable than alternatives in South Africa.
As long as Britain gets the Astrology Centre (Score:2, Insightful)
The average Brexit voter ( stupider and older than average ) won't mind losing weathermen if they can get an Astrology Centre in return.
America's Big Mistake will be gone after 4 years, Brexit won't take much longer to be wiped away, like the nasty stain on our nation it is.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh dear, another bitter remoaner
I'm sure all remainers are all quite bitter and vocally moaning about the damage done through tyranny of the undereducated.
As an outsider with no skin in the game this has been hilarious to watch:
- We'll not leave the single market, the remainers are just moaning about some unrealistic risk - nope they were right.
- It'll be the easiest trade deal in history, the remainers are just spreading FUD that negotiations like this take years - nope they were right.
- It won't cost our economy a thing, the remainers a
Re: (Score:2)
Ha! But tell us what you really think :)
Somebody must be making a hellalot of money on this. I wonder who? and how?
Re: (Score:2)
Long term short selling?
Re: (Score:2)
I wonder who? and how?
Based on what I could tell basically all the politicians and elite who were standing to lose their tax havens due to new EU laws.
Re: (Score:2)
Calling people thick who you don't agree with really is the last resort of someone who has no argument. But hey, if thats all you've got.
As for your so called points, its not 2016 any more and no , they weren't right then and they arn't now. I'd worry more about your own incompetant political class closing down half your country for a tiny uptick in covid cases to keep the paranoids happy.
But anyway, thanks for playing.
Re: (Score:2)
Nah, these points are more right now than ever. Calling people thick because they are uneducated is not nice, but not wrong either. And considering that the UK has four times the number of coronavirus deaths despite being smaller, I'd say the joke's on you. Even France is doing much better.
Re: (Score:2)
You call people thick but don't even understand the relationship of population size and density with respect to a spread of a virus. Can you even spell "irony"?
LOL :)
Re: (Score:2)
I call people who have problems with reading comprehension thick, and deservedly so.
As I have already stated, our population is larger than the UK population. Our population density not much lower, yet we have less than a quarter of the UK deaths - and unlike the UK we do count all deaths, not just hospital deaths so our excess death numbers are very close to the confirmed death numbers (about 300 deaths are unaccounted for). In your country, on the other hand, there are over 10000 excess deaths that are un
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry, the population of Australia is 4 times the UK? When did this happen?? Someone tell Skippy!
You may well have stated something somewhere about your country - wheever the hell it is - but it sure wasn't in this thread so I have no idea what country you're talking about, however the OP was in australia. So get your fucking ducks in a line and try again.
Re: (Score:2)
Calling people thick who you don't agree with really is the last resort of someone who has no argument.
It's also the last resort of someone talking to those impervious to reasoned arguments.
Re: (Score:2)
Calling people thick who you don't agree with really is the last resort of someone who has no argument. But hey, if thats all you've got.
Good work, you read the last sentence, ignored the entire rest of my post and declared victory through lack of content.
If you ever want to have a real conversation you're more than welcome to come back and address the 6 other points in my post, that is ... unless you're to stupid. That isn't me name calling. That is the conclusion on the evidence you just presented.
I'd worry more about your own incompetant political class closing down half your country for a tiny uptick in covid cases to keep the paranoids happy.
USA: 633 deaths / 1M.
UK: 618 deaths / 1M.
Australia: 34 deaths / 1M. (And 90% of those were from one moron city which didn't take the first measu
Re: (Score:2)
What is the population density of australia vs the UK?
As for lockdowns - they don't work. The virus isn't going away and infections will just come back from carriers when the lockdown is lifted. But its a nice simple solution for simple people to hold on to like a comfort blanket.
Meanwhile chemotherapy sessions have been cancelled and cancer deaths are up not to mention deaths from other illnesses. But thats ok, because wetwipes like you feel "safe".
Fuck you and your pathetic kind.
Re: (Score:2)
What is the population density of australia vs the UK?
Oh jesus fucking christ.
What's the population density of the US vs. the UK?
That truly is a pointless fucking measure, because, well, as it turns out, every square kilometer of land isn't occupied by housing.
People seem to congregate in these things called cities. Even your most rural backwater in the Midwestern US has em.
Epidemiology can't be modeled with statistics as fucking meaningless as average population density of a fucking *country*.
And you call him pathetic? There's no fucking way you made i
Re: (Score:2)
If every city were Tokyo with the surrounding countryside virtually empty you'd have a point, but most places arn't like that. Cities in less populated areas tend to be less densely populated themselves.Compare the US east coast cities to those in the midwest. With a few exceptions such as chicago the latter are small fry.
Re: (Score:2)
The average population density of a country means nothing. The only way you could use population density as a meaningful metric would be if you removed all uninhabited land from the measure. You would then find that Australia's population density is quite a bit higher than officially recorded.
It's like trying to estimate the spread rate of COVID using the average population density of the world.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Calling people thick who you don't agree with really is the last resort of someone who has no argument. But hey, if thats all you've got.
Perhaps. But it's not more terrible than the argument *you* just made.
In one fell swoop, you have declared that all opinions are equal and that some people really aren't just fucking dumb.
Na. You're a fuckwit.
Thanks for playing.
Re: (Score:2)
And then you think the best idea for a trade envoy is to import our ex-PM who got axed by his own political party for incompetence
One of your countrymen said something along these lines to me: there's lots of self serving incompetence to choose from in the Tory party, but if you want world class talent, Tony Abbot's your man.
Re: (Score:2)
Inaccurate headline (Score:3)
The headline makes it seem like the UK already had the contract which will be lost due to Brexit. It seems however that the contract itself would not even exist without Brexit. How can you lose something you never had in the first place? Does each person playing a lottery with a million dollar grand prize lose a million every week they don't win?
Small potatoes. Not all relationships work out (Score:2)
The divorce is done. Assets divided. Both sides need to get on with their lives.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh so only one side is being unreasonable, and, unsurprisingly, you claim that it's the other side.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The thing is, the UK is happy to sign a good trade deal, and content to trade on WTO terms.
So who gives a fuck about the size of the EU market, they're the ones panicking about WTO.
Like CERN (Score:2)
ECMWF, which is also a key body for climate-change research, is backed by 34 countries, 22 of them EU member states.
Like CERN, which is backed by EU and non-EU states, and it is not a problem that it is located outside of EU. This story looks like petty revenge.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Like CERN, which is backed by EU and non-EU states, and it is not a problem that it is located outside of EU.
CERN is located in Switzerland, and welcomes geeks, nerds and get-your-silly-string-theory-out-of-your-ass folks.
My company has a +2000 employees lab in the UK, with currently, folks from all over the EU.
That will change. The Brexit message of "Take back control of our borders!" can be simply translated as, "We do not like foreigners!".
Oh, and yes . . . where do I get my information . . . ? "The Economist" and "Viz"
So should a top world class scientist want to work in a country of racists that hate h
Re: (Score:2)
The Brexit message of "Take back control of our borders!" can be simply translated as, "We do not like foreigners!".
That sounds like projection to me.
The UK had mass migration from the Caribbean and from South-East Asia long before the EU existed. Don't give me some bullshit xenophobic accusation.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Speaking as a native resident of the UK your experience sounds very much unlike every experience I've had.
But then, I've only lived in multiple parts of the UK and two other countries, and had multiple mixed race relationships, and had foreign girlfriends. What do I know.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: Like CERN (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"We'll ban you from trading food to part of your own country" that's ... not even wrong.
That they made the threat isn't wrong.
That they felt that threat was reasonable is very fucking wrong.
I'm not sure how you feel this supports your arguments.
Re: (Score:2)
at no point has the EU threatened anything remotely like
https://www.thejournal.ie/brus... [thejournal.ie]
https://reaction.life/did-barn... [reaction.life]
Of course, you've also entirely misrepresented the Withdrawal Agreement, the position of the UK Government and the necessity of customs checks between the UK and Ireland.
Re: (Score:2)
The EU have demanded that the UK tells them its future plans for food regulation before they'll accept that the UK complies with current EU rules, even though the UK currently complies with current EU rules and the EU knows this because UK law on the matter has not changed since the UK was in the EU, which means that the EU are intentionally threatening to cut off the UK from EU markets in this area, which, due to the Northern Ireland Protocol, would prevent the UK from trading its own food within its own b
Re: (Score:2)
Current compliance means zilch.
The EU requires that people trading with it have compliance on food standards. The UK has compliance. It means fucking everything.
the EU wanted some guarantees on the UK's plan for future regulations before listing it. Perfectly normal for a third country
Except for.. every other fucking country the EU has ever fucking traded with.
The UK government used this non-issue as a pretext to enact legislation giving the government sweeping powers to "disregard" the treaty.
No, it did not.
legislation.gov.uk lists all UK legislation going back hundreds of years. Feel free to link the legislation that you say is enacted.
Then the UK quietly gave the required assurances, and the EU listed them within days. The treaty breaking bill stays, of course.
The EU, having threatened to try
Re: (Score:2)
the UK could legislate whatever the fuck they want while the agreement is already in effect
So could every other fucking country the EU trades with. The EU has demanded the ability to dictate future regulations in precisely NONE of those countries.
Go ahead, quote some senor EU officials saying they want to break up the UK.
Where, there's the EU official working for Guy Verhofstadt whose response to May agreeing to the shitty Withdrawal Agreement (so shitty even a Remainer parliament refused to pass it) was "It's done! On our terms and conditions. We finally turned them into a colony and that was our plan from the first moment."
Or perhaps you'd prefer the words of the Secre
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"This story looks like petty revenge." only said by someone who is ignorant of the situation
Go on and share your insights, since you are correctly informed.
Re: (Score:2)
I've bolded your relevant statement concerning the funding.
From this, you note, correctly, that
and this non-problem is for the very reason that you state. [Slow. Hand. Clap.]
On the other hand, for an organisation which is funded by the EU to be located in a non-EU country is as sensible as, say, the Swiss parliament holding all it's meetings in New York.
Re: (Score:2)
The stoary says
ECMWF, which is also a key body for climate-change research, is backed by 34 countries, 22 of them EU member states
Situation is analog to CERN: there are EU and non EU funds, it makes sense to locate the facility inside or outside EU.
this research sounds corrupt (Score:2)
The people who cooked the books on the peer review articles to keep their opponents out?
The people who were having trouble finding ways to "hid the decline" in global temperatures?
Yeah, let that stuff all get shut down and defunded.
Let's keep the police.
Re: (Score:1)
Ha ha ha ! Good one ! Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage - Champions of Freedom ! Ha ha ha ha.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54... [bbc.com]
Re: (Score:1)
Exiting the EU is freedom, now they did their job, next step is to eject em for someone that actually know what to do with the freedom.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not about borders, it's about not being controlled by the EU when this one inevitably turns into a terrifying monster, as it tends to happen when you centralize the power too much.
The bigger the power concentration, the worse the people that will raise to get this power.
Re: (Score:2)
I fear you're replying to the wrong person.
I suspect I'm too old to need to fight to free Europe again, but I can see my younger relatives needing to. Hopefully the EU will collapse before it gets an army, save everybody a lot of grief.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes i am.
Re: (Score:3)
Bingo!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Oh? So you'll be wanting to make sure you pay to implement all those rules and regs that you used to get from the EU. You'll need a lot to cover what they covered. And you'll be outside the EU, so you can kiss the trading benefits with the EU goodbye. And you'll be wanting a new trade deal with all the other countries that have trade deals with the EU except you won't have the EU clout to back up your bargaining position. Then there is the flow of scientists and engineers, they won't be coming to GB any lon
Re: (Score:2)
you'll be wanting to make sure you pay to implement all those rules and regs that you used to get from the EU. You'll need a lot to cover what they covered.
They're already enshrined in UK law. It's ok, I don't expect pro-EU people to know basic things like that.
you'll be outside the EU, so you can kiss the trading benefits with the EU goodbye
Don't be silly. EU companies will demand to trade with the UK and nothing will stop them. UK companies will continue to sell goods and services to the EU, and nothing will stop them.
It's almost as though pro-EU people don't understand the most basic things about international trade.
you'll be wanting a new trade deal with all the other countries that have trade deals with the EU except you won't have the EU clout to back up your bargaining position
Wanting? We've already agreed deals with most of them, on a 'same as the agreement already in place via the EU' basis.
Where
Re: (Score:2)
Poverty is slavery.
Anyway we are giving away our freedom, first come first served. Tokyo already took control of our state aid policy. We are building internal borders for the EU, inside our own country.
Re: (Score:3)
So you'll have no objection when Scotland decides to leave the UK then.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes the UK has regained (brought home) some of the powers they delegated to Brussels but Brexit also forced them hand in the powers they had over EU politics.
From part of the largest economical power they have become of of the many minor.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, UN security council members of the G8 have no power at all.
Re: (Score:3)
It's not that simple. The EU contracts with the Centre to *run EU programs*. It's control of those programs that gives the EU leverage.
Suppose the EU decides to move a 10 million euro contract from Reading to Dublin. The UK then says the Centre, "Hey, we'll give you what we used to contribute, which amounts to 1.6 million euros, just keep doing all that stuff in Reading." That's fine, but it doesn't stop the European funding from shifting to Ireland, and the Centre can't run that program on just 1.6 mill
Re: (Score:2)
What the UK needs to do is negotiate some kind of post-transition final status agreement that allows it to continue participating in various European initiatives as an equal partner. But it's not going to happen;
Of course it's not going to happen. No one on the EU side has any incentive to allow for a smooth Brexit. Pretending otherwise was always a waste of time. Most of the EU has no rational reason to remain a member other than fear of the consequences of leaving, if they leave one at a time. But they're needed to weigh the Euro down and keep German exports competitive. So Frankfurt is deeply invested in Brexit being a nightmare, and so is everyone in the general EU administration because it's their jobs and pen
Re: (Score:2)
The number does not at all include the usually positive results of inter-EU trade.
Re: (Score:2)
This 'net contributor' is not what you and a lot of *exit people think it means.
The number does not at all include the usually positive results of inter-EU trade.
That is true. But it doesn't include all the usually negative results of Frankfurt's interference in the economy of the EU generally. Well, negative for everyone other than Germany, of course.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm a net contributor to my town's waste collection, police force, fire fighting and hospital care via paying my council tax.
Doesn't mean that if there's an apocalypse and everyone else in town disappears that I can personally get the same level of waste collection, policing, fire fighting and hospital care for a 150GBP a month.
There's a reason why a cooperative is usually greater than the sum of its parts.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Give me a positive story about Brexit.
P.S. I'm English.
Re: (Score:2)
P.S. I moved to Scotland.
Re: (Score:2)
Incidentally, it looks almost certain that she and her party will get re-elected next year in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, you can tell that I love Scotland and may well be visiting Glen Coe next year to kill myself there, as where else would you want to die, just from that?
I notice you associate the name 'wee Jimmy Krankie' with the miniature dictator. If Scotland gets its independence you may want to leave the country, for that she'll be looking to put you on the re-education list.
Re: (Score:2)
No10 denies Boris Johnson called Nicola Sturgeon 'bloody Wee Jimmy Krankie' [scotsman.com]
Nicola Sturgeon calls for end to ‘squabbles’ after claims Boris Johnson called her ‘that Wee Jimmy Krankie woman’ [pressandjournal.co.uk]
Not nice, not funny: the Krankie jibe against Nicola Sturgeon goes too far [theguardian.com]
I had to look these up to see who you could be referring to. Personally I try and avoid
Re: (Score:2)
1) By 0.0015% extra per annum. While the EU is about to collectively negotiate a better deal. P.S. this is literally the only complete "deal" post-Brexit. It's basically the same, if you discount error estimates and all inflation.
2) We've spent more on Brexit than any of that has ever cost us.
3) Really? Could have fooled me. We have a lorry park to queue in just to get our own trucks out, France won't give a shit about millions of migrants coming to our country any more (why should they? They're not t
Re: (Score:2)