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United States Politics

Trump Attacks Legitimate Vote-Counting Efforts and Claims Fraud Without Basis (cnn.com) 691

President Trump attacked legitimate vote-counting efforts in remarks from the White House early Wednesday, suggesting attempts to tally all ballots amounted to disenfranchising his supporters, CNN reports. From the report: "Millions and millions of people voted for us," Trump said in the East Room. "A very sad group of people is trying to disenfranchise that group of people." His remarks were laced with misleading statements and outright falsehoods and amounted to an assault on the Democratic process. He insisted that states where vote tallies currently show him leading should be called in his favor, despite significant outstanding votes yet to be counted. He said he was preparing to declare victory earlier in the evening. "We were getting ready for a big celebration. We were winning everything. And all of a sudden it was just called off," he said. Trump baselessly claimed a fraud was being committed. "This is a fraud on the American public. This is an embarrassment to our country," Trump claimed. "Frankly we did win this election," he said, despite millions of votes still outstanding. Saying he would go to the US Supreme Court, Trump said he wanted "all voting to stop." Further reading:
Biden urges patience as Trump threatens court action (The New York Times);
Trump falsely and prematurely claims election victory (Axios);
Trump baselessly claims 'fraud' amid nail-biter results (The Guardian);
Trump falsely declares victory: 'We already have won' (ABC News);
Trump tries to claim victory; Biden says votes still being tallied (NPR);
and No clear winner in presidential race as vote counting continues, election hangs in balance. (Fox News)
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Trump Attacks Legitimate Vote-Counting Efforts and Claims Fraud Without Basis

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  • by Ly4 ( 2353328 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @03:06AM (#60682480)

    Trump Attacks Legitimate Vote-Counting Efforts and Claims Fraud Without Basis

    Thank you for the very accurate headline, /. But I'm sure it'll offend many people who are not used to the truth being stated so bluntly.

    It'll be interesting to hear what excuses they come up with to try and discredit the story.

    • by h33t l4x0r ( 4107715 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @03:11AM (#60682490)
      He was just kidding?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @03:12AM (#60682494)

    ...and i've heard heads of state make similar statements in the past. It never ends well.

    This shit is genuinely scary.

  • Biden's path (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymouse Cowtard ( 6211666 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @03:17AM (#60682510) Homepage
    Is to get Nevada and two out of Wisconsin, Georgia and NC. There's about 300k votes seperating the candidates between these states. It's really going down to the wire. On the popular count, Biden has 66.9m votes to Trump's 65.3m. It's so close, do you regret not voting now?
    • Re:Biden's path (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Truth_Quark ( 219407 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @03:25AM (#60682530) Journal
      FiveThirtyEight [fivethirtyeight.com] hasn't written him off for Pennsylvania yet either.

      The margin is large, but they haven't reported on their mail-in ballots which have a strong Biden bias, and this year it will be especially strong.
    • It's so close, do you regret not voting now?

      If someone didn't want to vote what makes you think they give a crap now?

    • by Mitreya ( 579078 )

      On the popular count, Biden has 66.9m votes to Trump's 65.3m. It's so close, do you regret not voting now?

      I do regret reading all those polls prior to the election. I voted, but hitting projected popular win isn't worth much.
      I was really amused by one of the fivethirtyeight.com podcasts on Ohio being called for Trump. "What happened, it was a close race going in, but it looks like it was called early". I guess it wasn't a close race and the pollsters seriously screwed up?

    • Re:Biden's path (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ranton ( 36917 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @06:25AM (#60682802)

      It's so close, do you regret not voting now?

      Current projections have the total voter turnout at about 160 million people, the highest turnout in over 100 years. That is over 23 million more people than in 2016. The most shocking thing so far to me is I thought this level of turnout would have been a huge boost to Biden. Conventional wisdom is that Democrat policies are more favored by Americans overall, but Republican policies are favored by those who actually vote consistently. But in this case those extra 23 million voters seem to be close to evenly split.

      Although there were signs that not all non-voters are created equal. The political leanings of nonvoters varies widely state to state [fivethirtyeight.com], with non-voters in Pennsyvannia / Florida / Virginia leaning Republican and Georgia / Wisconsin / Michigan leaning Democrat. This was based on polls though, so who knows which of those non-voters actually showed up. Based on results so far, it looks like it was people who fear Socialists will steal our babies at night.

      • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

        It's so close, do you regret not voting now?

        Current projections have the total voter turnout at about 160 million people, the highest turnout in over 100 years.

        And no matter who wins, everyone should be able to agree on that stat being a good thing. Democracy only works when as many people as possible participate.

  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @03:46AM (#60682564)

    I read, I think on The Guardian, that he wants counting to continue in Arizona, where he's trailing, and stop in Pennsylvania (and others) where he's ahead -- at least as of this post. Typical, he wants it both ways that go his way.

  • Not a democracy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cvanderheyden ( 7417098 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @05:14AM (#60682722)
    It is extremely baffling that Americans still believe they live in a democratic country. The antiquated electoral college, 2 party system, winner takes all, voter supression, Gerrymandering, Pacs, SuperPACS, biased and subjective media outlets, politically appointed judges... There is literally NOTHING democratic about this...
    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @05:45AM (#60682766)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Re:Not a democracy (Score:5, Informative)

      by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @07:49AM (#60682926) Homepage

      The US is not a pure democracy, it is a republic. Or, if you prefer, a "representative democracy". The difference is important. A pure democracy, which is what you seem to be cheering for, would be a horrible form of government - otherwise known as "mob rule".

      The Electoral College exists for the same reason that the Senate exists: to prevent a few heavily populated regions from dominating the entire nation. Every non-totalitarian government that I am familiar with has similar institutions. A few countries - but only a few - select their Head of Government by pure popular vote. Some do not even involve the public - the Head of Government may be selected by the parliament.

      The two-party system, on the other hand, really is a problem. it also is not any part of the US government. Rather, it is an artifact, an accidental side-effect of how the US counts votes: Every election is "winner takes all". Change to proportional voting, and smaller parties could survive.

      • The US is not a pure democracy, it is a republic. Or, if you prefer, a "representative democracy". The difference is important. A pure democracy, which is what you seem to be cheering for, would be a horrible form of government - otherwise known as "mob rule".

        That's not what mob rule is. Mob rule is when a loud and generally violent mob dictates or influences policy outside of the defined, legitimate channels. Direct democracy where the people legitimately vote directly on policy issues (which is actually pretty common in the US, in the form of ballot initiatives) is, by definition, not "mob rule".

        There are some problems with direct democracy, both logistical and practical, that generally make it more sensible to adopt a representative system, which is why nea

      • The Electoral College exists for the same reason that the Senate exists: to prevent a few heavily populated regions from dominating the entire nation.

        Another, more honest way to say that is the Electoral College exists for the same reason that the number of representatives in the house is capped: to permit a few lightly populated regions to dominate the entire nation.

        The beginning of the preamble says We The People, but then the Electoral College explicitly takes power OUT of the hands of The People. It's a vicious and violent attempt to keep the nation in the hands of The Powers That Be for ever and ever.

      • Re: Not a democracy (Score:4, Informative)

        by aRTeeNLCH ( 6256058 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @09:34AM (#60683272)
        A pure democracy, which is what you seem to be cheering for, would be a horrible form of government - otherwise known as "mob rule".

        Hi, I live in Switzerland. We have a direct democracy, probably the purest you can find. The mob rule thingy is very restricted, because people realise they should think of the bigger picture. I think it's not as bad as you paint it. I'm not sure I know any country that does it better. Best thing: the federal council doesn't feel like rulers, more like executives carrying out the orders of the people. All other countries seem to have presidents for rulers, we have presidents that preside and follow.

      • to prevent a few heavily populated regions from dominating the entire nation.

        That's the problem with the EC; it's specifically designed to prevent a few heavily populated regions from dominating the entire nation. It does this by artificially weighing low-population states, which allows them to dominate the entire nation. It simply moves where the 'battleground' states are.

      • The Electoral College exists for the same reason that the Senate exists: to prevent a few heavily populated regions from dominating the entire nation.

        So instead it's better to have a bunch of people with more land dominate the majority who have less land. That's worse.

        The EC system is bad for everyone. It also means the Republican party doesn't have to give a fuck about a bunch of the states in the middle because they could run a dead rat on a stick as president and still be guaranteed those EC votes. The E

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Pennsylvania (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @07:06AM (#60682850) Homepage

    Ok, I'm not in the US, but I kind of see his points. If you look at the election sites, some of the data is...strange.

    Take Reuters: If you click on the election map for details, you see Pennsylvania as listed "Lean Democratic" with Trump in the lead by 14.5% and 3/4 of the votes counted. For Trump to lose Pennsylvania, the remaining 1/4 of the votes would have to be more than 70% Biden to less than 30% Trump. So: to list this state as leaning towards Biden is strange at best. A conspiracy theorist might wonder if Retuers is displaying knowledge of semi-trucks of Biden ballots waiting to be discovered somewhere. Same source, Texas listed as a "toss-up". Trump has a 4% lead, and only 4% of the ballots remain to be counted. So Biden is going to get 100% of those remaining ballots?

    Now, I don't actually think anyone is going to get away with large-scale fraud. There are too many eyes, too many people watching. What I do think is that the MSM just can't stop showing their bias, that they cannot bring themselves to admit that Trump has won the election. Roughly half the population of the US voted for Trump - you would never have guessed that from the press coverage running up to the election. Journalists have completely forgotten that - outside of editorial pieces - they are supposed to present facts and truth, not their personal biases.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @07:41AM (#60682908)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Speaking of fraud the FBI is investigating robocalls telling people to stay home on polling day.

      https://arstechnica.com/tech-p... [arstechnica.com]

    • Re:Pennsylvania (Score:5, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @09:47AM (#60683330)

      For Trump to lose Pennsylvania, the remaining 1/4 of the votes would have to be more than 70% Biden to less than 30% Trump. So: to list this state as leaning towards Biden is strange at best.

      Is it? Let me give you a summary of the past 6 months:
      Trump: Mail voting is fraudulent, I'm going to shut it down, I'm going to fight the post office, we got to stop mail voting!
      Biden: Vote early. Make sure you get your voice heard. Register for mail voting due to COVID, register for mail voting to avoid long queues!

      Honestly with those messages I'd be very surprised if the split for the mail ballots is *only* 70/30.

  • by 1s44c ( 552956 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @08:41AM (#60683100)

    Given that Trump has worked very hard and very publicly to undermine US democracy, and given the number of people who have voted for him regardless, democracy is dead in the US. The US may be able to hold on for a few more election cycles but ultimately both sides know that blatant lies and abuse of position is now allowed. Both sides know the other side will abuse anything they can get hold of.

    With Trump or Biden the damage is done, the institutions that had public support since the founding of the US are actively distrusted by nearly half of the electorate.

    The US can't return to a healthy democracy from it's current state.

    • by tomhath ( 637240 )
      The media is in far worse shape than the democratic process. People can't believe anything being reported by any of the major news outlets.
  • by doginthewoods ( 668559 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @09:33AM (#60683270)
    if there is one thing that is constant with Donnie, he always blames others for what he has already done
  • by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @10:51AM (#60683672) Journal

    I saw someone refer to him as Mango Mussolini yesterday which is accurate, and he stacked the supreme court specifically for this outcome. He's a wannabe dictator.

    He was going to claim victory no matter what, and hopefully the rule of law will fuck him hard and put his ass in jail once he realizes he can't pardon himself for state crimes.

  • by kbahey ( 102895 ) on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @01:12PM (#60684198) Homepage

    Setting aside the baseless fraud claims by the fraudster in chief ...

    This Canadian satire show 22 Minutes [youtube.com] explains how the elections are standardized across the country, using simple paper and pencil.

    Same in Australia, and elsewhere ...

    Works well ...

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