Defeating Trump, Joe Biden Declared Winner of US Presidential Election (nbcnews.com) 958
"BIDEN WINS" declares the all-caps headline at CNN.com.
And the headline at NBC News reads "JOE BIDEN DEFEATS DONALD TRUMP TO WIN THE WHITE HOUSE, NBC NEWS PROJECTS."
NBC News reports: Joe Biden became president-elect Saturday after winning the pivotal state of Pennsylvania, NBC News projected.
The former vice president amassed 273 Electoral College votes after winning Pennsylvania's 20 electors, according to NBC News, surpassing the 270 needed to win the White House and defeat President Donald Trump.
Biden's victory capped one of the longest and most tumultuous campaigns in modern history, in which he maintained an aggressive focus on Trump's widely criticized handling of the Covid-19 pandemic. A majority of voters said rising coronavirus cases were a significant factor in their vote, according to early results from the NBC News Exit Poll of early and Election Day voters.
Biden regularly criticized Trump as unfit for office and positioned his campaign as a "battle for the soul of America." He promised from the outset of his run to heal and unite the country if he won, and made central to his closing message a pledge to represent both those who voted for him as well as those who didn't when he got to the White House.
As president, Biden will immediately be confronted with a bitterly divided nation in the throes of a pandemic that has already killed 236,000 Americans.
And the headline at NBC News reads "JOE BIDEN DEFEATS DONALD TRUMP TO WIN THE WHITE HOUSE, NBC NEWS PROJECTS."
NBC News reports: Joe Biden became president-elect Saturday after winning the pivotal state of Pennsylvania, NBC News projected.
The former vice president amassed 273 Electoral College votes after winning Pennsylvania's 20 electors, according to NBC News, surpassing the 270 needed to win the White House and defeat President Donald Trump.
Biden's victory capped one of the longest and most tumultuous campaigns in modern history, in which he maintained an aggressive focus on Trump's widely criticized handling of the Covid-19 pandemic. A majority of voters said rising coronavirus cases were a significant factor in their vote, according to early results from the NBC News Exit Poll of early and Election Day voters.
Biden regularly criticized Trump as unfit for office and positioned his campaign as a "battle for the soul of America." He promised from the outset of his run to heal and unite the country if he won, and made central to his closing message a pledge to represent both those who voted for him as well as those who didn't when he got to the White House.
As president, Biden will immediately be confronted with a bitterly divided nation in the throes of a pandemic that has already killed 236,000 Americans.
I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:3, Insightful)
I won't call it a return to sanity.
But this is certainly a start.
Ryan Fenton
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Interesting)
I saw someone call it "not stopping the bleeding, but at least stopping the stabbing".
This is really only a beginning, Trump is an early warning symptom and not the cause of the reason America is messed up. So everyone should take a long look and try to seriously address the underlying issues, MO mostly representative democracy, education, inequality, safety net, infrastructure, etc.
Good luck. I love the idea America is supposed to represent and have a fantastic time every time I visit, but unfortunately in reality it seems that it barely works as a developed country in practice and is built on a very shaky foundation.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. I have been saying Trump is just a symptom since he got voted into office. He took advantage of a very bad situation (and made it worse), but he did not create that very bad situation.
Either the US population manages to rediscover that they have to create its future _together_ or the whole is doomed.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:4, Insightful)
America's demographics are changing. Lots more non-white people, slow change that increases the relative power of people who aren't white men.
Some people feel threatened by that, not least because it's been used to agitate and polarise.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
White men was the main demographic Trump did worse with than last time. He did better than last time with women, with hispanics, with blacks. He did very well with these groups for being a Republican (though of course, he still didn't win them by any means).
This (plus the election and re-election of Obama) ought maybe to put to rest such simplistic and self-righteous race-based narratives? Demographics isn't destiny. People are a lot of things besides a race and a sex.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
The Atlantic has an EXCELLENT article about "hispanics," and how foolish it is to consider them one monolithic group with the same priorities. Cuban Americans do not have the same politics as white chicanos, who do not have the same politics as Texan Mexican-Americans, who do not have the same politics as Black Dominicans.
Things people just assume about hispanics and latinos that are not correct:
Myth 1) They are socially and politically liberal. Many of them come from conservative societies, and the Catholicism has a lot of influence. Mexican Americans are very "traditional family values."
Myth 2) They hate border and immigration protection. Sure, some of them may be illegal immigrants and thus have no voting rights, but this idea that enforcement of the southern border is hated by hispanics is nonsense. Those who have legally immigrated to the United States are especially incensed about "line-cutters." Now, they don't like being harassed because of the color of their skin, that's for sure. But they are not for open borders, especially when people coming over illegally are competing with them for jobs and driving down their wages.
Myth 3) They want to vote themselves some good old fashioned socialism, because that's what people with little money do. The reality is that many came from cuba and south and central american countries with dictatorships, many of them socialist or communist. Joe Biden lost Florida partly because the Cubans didn't like what the Democrats were saying in terms of socialism like "free health care." A line of "self-reliance and entrepreneurship" appeals to them much much more. What Republicans are selling them appeals to them much more than the Democrats.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's only true if you consider all Latinos as "non-white". But after a generation or two in the US, they assimilate into general US society while often keeping their conservative Catholic values. This leads them to vote similarly to white people. Essentially they are following the same path as Irish and Italians who were once seen as non-white but now are the core of the conservative white population. So the US is becoming more non-white only in a meaningless technical sense.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:4, Insightful)
I won't call it a return to sanity.
But this is certainly a start.
Ryan Fenton
For the rest of the world it's a return to sanity. The people in the country can remain mental as long as they have someone in charge of foreign policy that isn't actively trying to set the entire world on fire.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah. The US is free to be a mess, so long as that mess doesn't spill out into the broader world.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:4, Insightful)
The people in the country can remain mental as long as they have someone in charge of foreign policy that isn't actively trying to set the entire world on fire.
Have you noticed we haven't been hearing about ISIS, about North Korea, about border issues, about any of that recently? Trump's foreign policy was far superior to Obama's to the point that no one seems to consider it anymore. You'd think we'd be so used to war, terror, etc. that it would be jarring once it's no longer the norm, but somehow America has shifted from looking outward to looking inward (social justice, BLM, etc.) without even realizing that they're not worried about the rest of the world anymore.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
I won't call it a return to sanity.
But this is certainly a start.
Pretty much. Even if Trump is gone, his fans are still around. Everything will depend on whether they can be reached and convinced that they have to share the country with "the others" long-term and that some level of collaboration and respect is essential for that. There are too many countries in history that destroyed themselves because they split into two groups that could not deal with the existence of each other.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone living in the UK, looking with sadness and longing at what Germany and the Scandis are currently experiencing vs what we have, some *social democracy* (*not* socialism, which hasn't been a political option in Europe for decades) would be very nice, thank you very much.
Re: I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:3)
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, good luck with socialism. Be careful what you wish for.
Greetings from Europe.
I'm confused. You're acting like a rich person saying. Good luck with having more money, be careful what you wish for. I mean European countries top most metrics in terms of happiness, wellbeing, stress, work/life balance, safety, medical outcomes, life expectancy and general quality of life.
So yes, a bit of socialism is exactly what a careful person would wish for.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, good luck with socialism. Be careful what you wish for.
I'd like more socialism in the US, if only to supplant all the other "socialistic" stuff you must really hate, like:
police, firefighters, public libraries, clean water, country-wide 911 service, safe medications, food that's been inspected, public schools, parks and recreation areas, bridges, airports, train stations, child-abuse investigators, controls on what toxic chemicals can be poured into your drinking water, a national highway system, social services, drug treatment centers, Medicaid and Medicare, Social Security, community colleges, public schools, water and sewer systems, parks and recreation services, food inspection, electrical utilities, gas service, a National School Lunch Program, Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) program, foster care services, School Breakfast Programs, State Childrens Insurance Programs, Unemployment insurance, Worker's Comp, Senior Community Service Employment Programs, street lights, mass transit, zoning, planning, building permits and inspection, housing and development programs, road maintenance, the State Board of Health, building inspections, building and fire codes, disaster relief, FEMA, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, the FBI, flood mitigation, pollution inspections, drug treatment centers, the National Crime Information Center (NCIC), the Library of Congress, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), and on and on and on.
ALL those things are examples of socialism, pure and simple.
But yeah, tell me more about how 'socialism' is really really really really really really bad.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So, we're going to treat SARS-CoV-2 with respect rather than as a political punching bag, bolster NATO and not treat it like a protection racket, start treating immigrants like people instead of vermin, stop promoting racial strife, stop treating civil servants like paid political appointments whose only job is to cast bedroom eyes the alleged president and issue statements attesting his greatness, repeal the repeal of environmental rules, rejoin the Paris climate accords, tear down the Great White Wall tha
Re: (Score:3)
Other countries will have diplomatic relations with us again, and we'll be able to travel. Christmas in Quebec City! April in Paris!
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:4, Funny)
uh no
Americans have cooties. We Canadians, who are trying to get the cootie situation under control, are politely telling you to stay on your side of the border until your mess is cleaned up.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
We can hope.
We can *really* hope that this has been a valuable lesson about the dangers of the long-growing overeach of presidential power, and that both sides can agree to start stripping power from the office back to something more like it's historic position.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
We can *really* hope that this has been a valuable lesson about the dangers of the long-growing overeach of presidential power,
Nope. Republicans have always pushed for an expansion of presidential powers when they're in office. You know, the whole party of smaller government. By having the con artist, they got a taste of what they've wanted (combined with a spineless Republican-led Senate). Expect them to whine and moan whenever Biden does anything, then stand back and grin when the next Republican holds the office and goes on another law-breaking rampage.
Re:I won't call it a return to sanity. (Score:5, Insightful)
Until people pull their heads out of Fox's posterior, and start actually paying attention to reality, that's not going to happen.
The mere fact that you use the word "shamdemic" proves that you have absolutely no idea what the eff you're talking about. The world does not revolve around you-- simply because you cannot reach out and touch the pandemic, does not invalidate it.
Fox, as the propaganda arm of the Right, like the National Socialist Party before, and George Orwell before that, has successfully created a new reality in which inconvenient facts are "fake news", and the repetitive drumbeat of of half-truths and outright lies, trumps reality and truth.
In addition, there is a single individual in the United States Government who appears to have final control over all Supreme Court appointments, all cabinet appointments, and control over investigations into articles of impeachment. This individual has already warned President-elect Biden that only cabinet appointments acceptable to Mitch McConnell will be considered. McConnell must go, or the power of the Senate Majority leader needs to be lessened if we're to have a true republic.
Re: Fake news media... (Score:4, Insightful)
There's no point in trying to talk with these people; they simply do not share the same reality that you and I do. This may help explain it:
Identity Fusion - aka "Sports team" mode
A majority of the United States population is confused by the behavior of the rest of the country.
To grasp what has happened, you just have to realize that some political supporters have gone into "Sports Teams" mode. They have turned politics into an Identity Fusion issue.
Basically, they have stopped thinking about the representative government as a functional group of public servants. They are thinking about it as if it's their "team" and everything political has become "us versus them."
Some characteristics of a team fanatic
[ I'm using Trump Supporters as an example because it's currently the most obvious example, but it can apply to both sides to some degree. ]
Once you realize this is what's happening, the common attributes are there to see:
-- Wearing identifying clothing (hats, badges, colors, logos, slogans) in everyday life.
-- Loyalty regardless of performance or behavior of their "team."
-- Instant disrespect for any member of the opposing team based solely on team affiliation.
-- Hatred of any perceived disloyalty from fellow team fans.
-- Having rallies and parades even when there is no pending game with the primary goal to celebrate and reinforce being loyal.
-- At gatherings, fans chant slogans and/or sing.
-- Team players (not fans, but players) are 100% supported unless they leave the team. Then they are ostracized and demonized even though they are basically the same person.
This simple concept explains the logic-defying behavior we are constantly seeing in politics today.
Re: Fake news media... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds plausible. But it has to stop. Look at history for what happens if a country does that. It eventually leads to civil war and self-destruction. The thing these people do not get is that they are not just cheering for their own team. On this level, they are destroying the game.
Re: Fake news media... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds plausible. But it has to stop.
Cool, I'll stop believing in fairies if you start believing in science.
Re: Fake news media... (Score:4)
He said that the solution was, instead of addressing particular issues, talk about the general problem. The problem being that we are acting like sports teams, have cognitive biases that make us think all the "other side's" ideas are bad (and all our ideas are good), and not being able to be friends with people from the other side. Even saying "other side" is a problem.
Ultimately politics is about preference, and getting what you want. It's not dividing the world into "good" and "bad," that's a psychosis.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Biden barely squeaked past Trump's millions of votes.
This page shows the current popular vote count [2020votingresults.com]. As of this posting, Biden is ahead by over 4 million votes, twice the number of popular votes Hillary had over the con artist in 2016, and the votes aren't being counted. There are numerous states which have not finalized their counts. That difference is expected to rise further.
Get used to it, snowflake. No one cares about your lies. It's President Joe Biden for the next four years.
Re: Fake news media... (Score:4)
Re: Fake news media... (Score:4)
What scandal? The only scandal which comes to mind is the one where a so-called president threatened quid pro quo with a foreign government. The one where aid was to be held until such time the foreign government dug up fake dirt on a political opponent. You know, like is done in third world shithole countries.
Or maybe it's the one where the failure of a son-in-law to the so-called president was put in charge of a national strategy for reacting to a pandemic and decided that enacting a strategy might help people in places which might help a political opponent so the strategy was abandoned.
Or was it the one where both the daughter and son-in-law were performing government business using personal email accounts?
As olsmeister said, with Democrats in control of the House, there is no impeachment. Just like with Republicans in control of the Senate a conviction wasn't had despite the mountains of evidence of corruption and criminality.
Re: Fake news media... (Score:4)
The liberals have made it clear to the conservatives that that is how the game is played.
Newt Gingrich (R-GA) would like a word with you for giving credit where credit is due [wikipedia.org].
Re: Fake news media... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fake news media... (Score:4, Interesting)
No, by the several Secretaries of State who actually counted.
Ignorant shit.
Actually, no. It's not declared until the Electoral College actually votes. All we did going up to Tuesday was vote on who goes to the EC from our state. And while they may have pledged to vote for a specific candidate, many states don't hold them to this. So, until the EC votes, this race is not over. If Biden does something monumentally stupid between now and that vote, they could change their votes to Trump or Sanders.
This is technically true. I wonder if there has ever been a worse system for electing a person to a single position implemented anywhere in history.
Na Na Na Na Hey Hey-ey Goodbye trump! (Score:3, Funny)
Na Na Na Na Hey Hey-ey Goodbye trump!
Re:Na Na Na Na Hey Hey-ey Goodbye trump! (Score:5, Funny)
Former President Dewey sends his congratulations.
Re:No Electoral College yet?? (Score:5, Insightful)
How can anybody be President-Elect BEFORE Electoral College meets?
You mean like the media have done in every election in my lifetime? You must be new here.
Besides, even Fox News has called it for Biden.
Re: (Score:3)
How can anybody be President-Elect BEFORE Electoral College meets?
All states choose their electors based on the winner of the statewide popular vote and most have laws requiring those electors to cast their ballot for winner of the popular vote in their state. From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
Currently, all states (and the District of Columbia) use a statewide popular vote on Election Day in November to choose electors, based on how they have pledged to vote.
To serve as a state's elector, a pledge or prior agreement to vote for a candidate is generally required and there exist some state laws against faithless electors.
Given those constraints, the President Elect can be determined by the state election results -- and those results can be determined by the actual vote counts and/or math (when the counts are incomplete). There will be a recount in GA, but they usually only change the vote by a small number, if any,
Re: (Score:3)
It is over. Display some minimal grace, be a man and accept it.
Re: (Score:3)
Speaking of ignorance of US law, the Electoral College doesn't actually meet. Electors cast their votes in their home state and those votes are delivered to Congress to be opened and counted on January 6.
So there is a sense you could say no "president elect" until January 6, but you'd be on your own in that. Words mean what people customarily use them to mean, and in this case it's customary to call a candidate who has assembled enough pledged electors to win the EC vote "president elect".
Re:No Electoral College yet?? (Score:4, Funny)
Speaking of ignorance of US law, the Electoral College doesn't actually meet. Electors cast their votes in their home state and those votes are delivered to Congress to be opened and counted on January 6.
OMG! Postal fraud!
A little surprised (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:A little surprised (Score:5, Informative)
I expected PA to go trump and the Biden win to come from AZ/NV. I also expected NC/GA to go trump which would have been bad. A more decisive win for Biden I think is good for the country, At the moment I expect GA (another thing I did not expect on Wed) to go biden which will be somewhat ironic if it does. Biden will get the same EC vote count as trump did in 16 if GA goes Biden.
Decisive? It was a squeaker even if you don't think there was any fraud.
If not for the counting delay due to all the mail-in ballots this year, the results would have been in wednesday morning and it would have been considered decisive then since Biden will end up with over 300 electoral college votes. Only GA will be close in the end.
Re:A little surprised (Score:5, Interesting)
It is as decisive as 2016, when Trump was claiming a 40,000 vote win in PA was a "landslide", as was 306 electoral votes. We're looking at 306 this time and about 40,000 (est.) in PA. So in Trump-land, that's a landslide.
You're right, it is a squeaker, from an objective perspective of the Electoral College. We're looking at ~ 5 million person vote difference, which is about 7.5% of what looks to be ~ 150 million total votes. That's much less of a squeaker.
hooray! (Score:5, Interesting)
finally! Hopefully this will be a time of education, science-based-policy, healing, and ending the terrible divisiveness currently sets people against each other.
Re:hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish. Conservatives still hold the senate, so I expect the senate to act like they did in Obama's second term: all obstruction, all investigations which return no wrongdoing, all whining, no leading, no helping America. Standard conservative tactics, sadly. You'd think people who cared about "strong men" would elect strong men, instead of whiners like Graham and Trump.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I wish. Conservatives still hold the senate, so I expect the senate to act like they did in Obama's second term: all obstruction, all investigations which return no wrongdoing, all whining, no leading, no helping America. Standard conservative tactics, sadly. You'd think people who cared about "strong men" would elect strong men, instead of whiners like Graham and Trump.
I know, right? Those pesky checks and balances, getting in the way again.
Presidents should just be able to do whatever they want, as we've been saying for the last four years ... er ...
Re:hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)
Mitch will just refuse to vote on anything, this isn't check and balance, this is obstructionism. Nobody wants Biden to rule by fiat.
Re: (Score:3)
It can be useful. Foolish but popular programs can be proposed by the President or hte House of Representatives, but the Senate can block legislation or funding to prevent them. Each side then takes credit among their own supporters without passing any law or doing anything other than sitting in their offices.
Re:hooray! (Score:5, Insightful)
What McConnell does is not "checks and balances", it is a deliberate refusal to do the job for which he was elected. For example, refusing to confirm Garland was not a "check and balance" it was dereliction of duty.
If we had proper checks and balances, like a real impeachment hearing rather than sham one, we wouldn't be so fucked now.
It's amazing the projection from Republicans, Trumpists and their enablers. No one argues that the Senate should just let a President Biden do "whatever he wants", the is simply not the problem with Mitch McConnell. The country needs this stain removed.
Re:hooray! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:hooray! (Score:4, Interesting)
finally! Hopefully this will be a time of education, science-based-policy, healing, and ending the terrible divisiveness currently sets people against each other.
Well, maybe. When you stop observing norms, they very quickly stop *being* norms. Then you have to go through the process that builds those norms all over again.
But one welcome change will be not having check the news every day to see what the President has tweeted. My basic standard for presidential competency is that except in some kind of unforeseeable crisis I should not have to think about him more than once a month, and then mainly to stay in the habit. Even in a situation like COVID he should quickly fade into the background as his team shifts gears and takes up the day to day work of dealing with it. He should be running political and administrative interference for his team, not prognosticating the course of the pandemic or calling the shots on which medical treatments to promote.
I like Presidents who didn't lose reelection... (Score:3, Insightful)
Good luck getting away with your crime spree now, jackass.
Seriously, the only thing keeping that turd out of prison (with his co-conspirators) was being president.
Now he'll have to flee the country if he wants to get away with his blatantly obvious criminal schemes.
I do hope... (Score:5, Insightful)
Good luck getting away with your crime spree now, jackass.
I really, really do hope that Biden publicly investigates the hell out of all the corruption that occurred during the last four years. While I don't expect it'll change anyone's opinion of Trump whatsoever, I hope history can see this administration as rivaling Harding's as the most corrupt administration this country's ever seen.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:I do hope... (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a natural understanding among people with power; a set of rules they follow when dealing with each other (as opposed to the rules they follow when dealing with the rest of us).
One such rule is a limitation on when they use the law against one another. It is generally not done, and only as a last result when two potentates are in direct conflict with one another. When there is no such conflict, there is no application of law (and no amount of whistleblowing on the part of the serfs will change that, as such serfs should instead be punished for their impropriety).
This professional courtesy extends to former potentates, as well. So, no, there will be no such investigations. At least not so long as Trump steps off the stage as he should.
Worry about the future (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's why I think people voted for Trump (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I think we must not lose sight of the fact that just about half of the country voted for Trump. In fact, one of my family members supports Trump, although he is not American and did not get to vote. I asked him why, but he refused to explain.
I can't figure it out. It seems irrational, but all these people voting for Trump. I think the best guess for it is this: although overall Trump is very bad as a president, he does something or other that fulfills one of our fantasies, whether it is telling China off, whether it is being direct and crude, or otherwise doing something that we secretly wish people in high office could do but would be unprofessional and which we think would probably never happen. But Trump does it, and doesn't really care that it breaks decorum, he just goes ahead and does it. And he would be the only president unprofessional enough and rude enough to do it. so somehow or other some sort of need is fulfilled in Trump.
That's the only thing I can think of to explain why all these people are voting for Trump.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, I am German and live in Germany, but hoped that Trump wins the election (and maybe even is brazen enough to get a third term). The reason bein that I want the relationship between the EU - especially Germany, of course - and the USA to sour permanently so the EU can emancipate itself from America. The same way I wish for the NATO breakup and some kind of a EU defence treaty as a replacement.
Re:Here's why I think people voted for Trump (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of people support Trump because of his policy positions, not his personality or style of governance. For example, Trump is the first protectionist Republican (or Democrat) in decades. Did you see the H-1B rule changes recently, where they significantly increased the minimum salary for many positions? https://www.forbes.com/sites/s... [forbes.com]
A National Foundation for American Policy analysis found that the new DOL rule may cause an employer to pay a software developer in Los Angeles a Level 1 wage approximately $31,000 higher per year, a 36% increase over the previous DOL prevailing wage. The Level 1 wage of a software developer would be 30% higher in Chicago under the new DOL wage rule and 48% higher in New York.
This reimplements the original stated intention of the H-1B program, which was that if companies can't find local talent to fill a position they can bring in international workers who have the required skills. The problem is the H-1B program became a tool of salary suppression, because what happened was companies would say "Well we can't find a good software developer *at this particular salary*."
So.. if you want to protect your labor rights and have a higher salary, you might support Trump. If you want to lower salaries and increase competition for jobs with H1Bs, then you might support the status quo and be against Trump.
You might argue that economic protectionism results in its own set of problems, and that's fine, but to pretend that there's no rational reason to support Trump, and that most Trump supporters must just have unfulfilled fantasies of being a tough guy, is itself irrational. Please look at the actual policies with a clear set of eyes and you will find plenty of reasons, whether you agree with them or not.
Other examples of why people might support Trump are border security, fossil fuel independence, reducing involvement in foreign conflicts, outreach to poor communities, lowering healthcare costs, etc. Again, you might rationally argue against any of these things, or against the particular methods Trump uses in them... but to pretend they don't exist and that no rational person could support them is just stupid. The fact that you didn't independently think of any of these things probably explains why your family member refuses to explain their position to you... you aren't even doing a modicum of your own research and thinking, at least in a good faith manner, which comes across as hostile to others. That's the level of thinking that you're portraying anyway, maybe I'm wrong.
Re:Here's why I think people voted for Trump (Score:4, Insightful)
Trump's polices are simple solutions to complex problems that don't work.
Problem is that it's very hard to sell complex solutions that do work but take years, when you are up against a populist who makes it sound quick and easy.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny you say that.
https://www.theatlantic.com/id... [theatlantic.com]
Trump had a level of celebrity that's hard create (Score:3)
You wont' see another Trump. What you will see is Romney making another run at the Whitehouse in 4 years. It's why he's been distancing himself from Trump (while still quietly supporting everything Trump did). The GOP will put the mask back on. I'm hoping we don't f
Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
An end to this episode of the shit show.
Re:Finally (Score:4, Insightful)
An end to this episode of the shit show.
You're totally ignoring the spin-off show "Recount city"
What rests is the Divided States of America (Score:5, Interesting)
I congratulate with the sanity of firing the insanity that occupied the White House for the past 4 years.
Biden might not be the best the US has to offer but he and his vice president are so much more human than Trump and his spawn.
I hope the main factions of the USofA will learn from the past years and come back to working together in a positive way.
The virus (Score:5, Insightful)
No matter where you fall on the political spectrum, it is useful to reflect that, had it not been for the coronavirus and Trump's bungling response, this election would vary likely have gone the other way.
Re:The virus (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe not.
The piece below argues that covid only hurt Trump among people who pay attention to the news, and that much of the population, who were not directly affected, preferred his 'pretend it's not there' approach:
https://slate.com/technology/2... [slate.com]
Given how many votes Trump actually got (more than in 2016), it seems there may be something to that idea.
May as well start (Score:3)
the eviction notice, and the deep, deep cleaning of all the surfaces in the White House.
Hard to express my feelings... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's so extremely frustrating where the country is at right now. While I'd like to feel happy that rationality has triumphed over zealotry, instead I feel defeated. The well's already been poisoned. Trump has proven that someone can bend and break laws at will in our nation and use power and corruption to keep the forces of integrity at bay. He awoke the illiberal masses [youtube.com] for his own selfish gain, and the wounds he leaves behind in this nation and its people will take decades to heal, if it ever does. Biden may be on his way to the White House this term, but neo-facism is not going away. Four years from now, prepare for round three.
Re:Hard to express my feelings... (Score:5, Insightful)
The well's already been poisoned. Trump has proven that someone can bend and break laws at will in our nation and use power and corruption to keep the forces of integrity at bay.
Trump was only able to achieve this because of his GOP enablers which control the senate. If Trump is AIDS then the GOP is the HIV which causes it. At any point the GOP could have ejected him but instead they opted for a political advantage.
The real takeaway should be that the GOP is heavily diseased by opportunists that believe the ends justify any and all means.
The democrats got away with Biden (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a matter of mistakes (Score:5, Insightful)
Both parties need a pro working class message, but both parties can't afford to alienate the big donors (like it or not).
Both parties also need to be careful about alienating the conservatives (little 'c', as in "don't change shit") in their parties. 70% of Americans are barely making it but they *are* making it, so they're terrified of change. Any change.
The GOP can run on Mexico & China taking jobs without alienating their base, the Dems can't since their base get nervous about xenophobia (being on the receiving end of a lot of it).
This means the Dems have to balance the wealthy donors and nervous conservatives against the working class voters who want a solution to their problems.
They tried this (or rather Hilary did) with "Learn to Code". That was a spectacularly tone def message since if you're an oil worker in your 40s you're way past the stage where you can do that. And besides it's not like they offered all that much help because doing so would mean taxes, and there's those wealthy donors again....
The solution is probably going to be the Green New Deal, but that's only going to buy us a bit of time. We're still about to put millions of oil workers out of work no matter what. UBI is a non starter because of those conservatives (they're pretty freaking scared of socialists taking all their money and pushing them over the edge).
I don't like ending a comment like this without a solution but, well, I don't have one yet. I'm open to anyone who's got one. I know "Build The Wall!" ain't it, but that's the thing, the GOP can lie because they've got Fox News, OANN & Praguer U to back them up. The Dems don't have that. All they've got is cold hard reality and Keynesian economics.
It's over, but it's not over. (Score:5, Insightful)
The norm in American politics that has held in every presidential election after 1876 goes like this: when it reaches the point where recounts and lawsuits are unlikely to change the results, one candidate concedes. The other accepts the concession and is then popularly regarded as "president-elect", even before the electoral votes have been certified and counted.
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that is not going to happen this year.
Get ready for the PARDONS (Score:3)
Expect Trump to start pardoning a ton of his own people. No way that the man that hired Michael Cohen does not have other crooks working for him, not to mention his family and himself. Way scared of "democrats" going after him.
75 days until the end of immunity (Score:3)
This has to be worrying to him and his close associates. There is some discussion as to whether or not he can pardon himself.
Look for a flurry of pardons to come through.
TRUMP DUMP PARTY WORLDWIDE! (Score:4, Funny)
Tonight all leftists and general supporters of democracy are gonna get drunk and baked and have an LGBTQ+-friendly orgy where every woman will get pregnant with an interracial baby, and most of them won't even have abortions, even though they totally could. We'll also be melting down guns and turning them into bongs, dildos, giant statues of AOC to put in place of confederate monuments, disc golf frisbees, and sex swings (exclusively used for consensual gay buttsex within loving stable gay marriages).
You may be wondering how this party can be held safely in the middle of the pandemic, well actually all those COVID19 victims died from related health problems like diabetes or obesity or stubbing their toe on a table leg, Bill Gates will hold a press conference to get you up to date soon.
The Senate's still up for grabs (Score:4)
He did it to Obama and took back all of Congress with easy (to be fair Obama only had Congress for a few months due to how seats work) and he would've taken back the Presidency if not for Romney's disastrous "47%" comment.
Finally - something good in 2020 (Score:4, Informative)
Remember our last one-term president in 1992 (Score:4)
In 1992, George H. W. Bush lost his bid for re-election because he promised "Read my lips: no new taxes!" but rather than veto the spending bill and cause a government shutdown, he compromised and signed-it. He was branded a liar and it cost him the presidency.
I think our standards have changed.
Re:Not so fast... (Score:5, Funny)
Trump is going to challenge the results. There's too many allegation of electron fraud (all in Democrat cities) to declare Biden the winner at this point.
Electron fraud is a threat to democracy, but proton fraud is even worse.
Re:Not so fast... (Score:5, Funny)
Trump is going to challenge the results. There's too many allegation of electron fraud (all in Democrat cities) to declare Biden the winner at this point.
Electron fraud is a threat to democracy, but proton fraud is even worse.
I hear neutron fraud is even a heavier charge.
Re:Not so fast... (Score:5, Funny)
Trump is going to challenge the results. There's too many allegation of electron fraud (all in Democrat cities) to declare Biden the winner at this point.
Electron fraud is a threat to democracy, but proton fraud is even worse.
I hear neutron fraud is even a heavier charge.
I thought it had no charge at all!
Yes, but they all have ... [*sunglasses*] ... spin.
Re: Not so fast... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not so fast... (Score:4, Informative)
Conservatives have been alleging fraud since the 2016 election, yet every major case of fraud since then has been perpetrated by conservatives.
It's easy to allege anything you want, as much as you want. If you don't have proof, then you're just whining, same as President Trump. Sad.
Time for an adult to be president, not a weakling like Trump.
Re:Not so fast... (Score:5, Informative)
Conservatives have been alleging fraud since the 2016 election,
Correction. In the 2016 election "conservatives" stated, unequivocally, there was no fraud which is why they filed multiple lawsuits to stop the recount of votes [thehill.com].
In the filing submitted in Michigan on behalf of Trump's campaign, Trump's lawyers made a direct statement that no evidence pointed to voter fraud existing in the 2016 election.
"On what basis does Stein seek to disenfranchise Michigan citizens?" the filing said. "None really, save for speculation. All available evidence suggests that the 2016 general election was not tainted by fraud or mistake."
The lawyers wrote that the purpose of Stein's recount effort was "to sow doubts regarding the legitimacy of the presidential election."
Also, in 2016, this is what the Pennsylvania head of the GOP [fox43.com] had to say when Jill Stein requested a recount:
"This desperate act by Jill Stein and those supporting her is a sad commentary on the failure of some to accept the results of the will of the people as reflected by their votes.”
So, yeah.
Re:Not so fast... (Score:5, Informative)
The fact that Democrats act like voter fraud isn't occurring is insane to me
Said no Democrat, anywhere, ever. There has never been an election without a few idiots trying to vote twice, vote in two locations etc. These people are caught. They usually get arrested. The system(s) catch them. What sane people are saying is that there was not some sudden surge of massive, national level fraud occurring on the 2020 election. It just wasn't there.
Fraud is deliberate. Are you suggesting that 72% of the absent poll location Detriot were somehow undermined by a massive democrat conspiracy? Even though your links clearly state the final tallies WERE CORRECT! You've point to an error in a spreadsheet used in Detroit last summer. That' isn't Fraud. Try again, and good luck. Have you checked Hunters laptop for the plans? Maybe Guillian can fill you in...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Not so fast... (Score:3)
It doesnâ(TM)t apply here because the usual reason it applies is because the data is distributed across several orders of magnitude. Electoral constituencies instead all attempt to be the same size, so the tallies tend to all be grouped around half the size of the average constituency.
Re:Not so fast... (Score:4, Informative)
Don't forget Trump's continued claim that he won the popular vote in 2016 and that 3M votes for Hillary were illegal.
So was he lying then and is telling the truth now or is he lying both times or was there really 3M fake votes in 2016.
The fact is the man is a pathological liar and has built a career out of never ever ever under any circumstances admitting he was wrong or admitting defeat.
Of course he's claiming election fraud. Every body expected, hell he even said in July he was going to claim election fraud if he lost. So he lost and now he's claiming fraud, nobody is surprised.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Commence /. circle- (Score:5, Interesting)
Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I'm sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.
I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that's hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted. We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.
Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power and we don't just respect that, we cherish it. It also enshrines other things; the rule of law, the principle that we are all equal in rights and dignity, freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values too and we must defend them.
Then she walked away. No lies. no suits. No armed poll watchers. No recounts. is Trump woman enough to do the same?
Re:legal (Score:5, Informative)
Re:legal (Score:5, Funny)
We know. But the concession statement /speech is an important signal to followers that the time for arguing is over.
Trump isn't going to do a concession speech lol
Re:This is irresonspible (Score:5, Insightful)
Odd how calling PA in 2016 with about the same margin wasn't highly irresponsible...
There are assertions of fraud. They currently lack any evidence, which is why they keep getting thrown out of court.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
The media has called every election since forever. They have processes in place that are designed to ensure they don't call too soon, and those processes have tightened up a lot in the last few years, largely due to Trump's antics. They are calling it now because they see no viable path for Trump, not at the ballot box, and not in court.
Re: (Score:3)
Same thing with Democrats... 2016 was the year of #NotMyPresident and #Resistance and all that nonsense. Many people never accepted Trump as legitimate.
Re: (Score:3)
I've already been canceled by this system and how it works, I've been disabled since 20. No color coded divisions necessary!
Re: (Score:3)
The media can, and do, declare any damn thing they want. That creates no obligation on the part of reality to listen to them.
If you want a dose of reality then you should look at the numbers from the states. That's what the media has done, and they've done so very cautiously. Many people, analysts, and poll watchers have declared Biden the winner days ago. If anything it was the media being overly cautious this time around.
Re: (Score:3)
You make it sound so simple. It's not. Biden has the presidency based on Pennsylvania, but he's likely got it anyway based on several other states.
Trump doesn't need to win a court case. He needs to win *multiple* court cases, in each of which he is making some different insane argument.
Not even his Supreme Court Plant can save him here. It's not like he can get a singular decision to have ever vote counted after midnight on Tuesday overturned.