New Era for UK as It Completes Separation From European Union (bbc.com) 527
A new era has begun for the United Kingdom after it completed its formal separation from the European Union.
From a report: The UK stopped following EU rules at 23:00 GMT, as replacement arrangements for travel, trade, immigration and security co-operation came into force.
Boris Johnson said the UK had "freedom in our hands" and the ability to do things "differently and better" now the long Brexit process was over. But opponents of leaving the EU maintain the country will be worse off.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, whose ambition it is to take an independent Scotland back into the EU, tweeted: "Scotland will be back soon, Europe. Keep the light on." BBC Europe editor Katya Adler said there was a sense of relief in Brussels that the Brexit process was over, "but there is regret still at Brexit itself". The first lorries arriving at the borders entered the UK and EU without delay. On Friday evening, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps tweeted that border traffic had been "low due to [the] bank holiday" but there had been no disruption in Kent as "hundreds" of lorries crossed the Channel with a "small" number turned back.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, whose ambition it is to take an independent Scotland back into the EU, tweeted: "Scotland will be back soon, Europe. Keep the light on." BBC Europe editor Katya Adler said there was a sense of relief in Brussels that the Brexit process was over, "but there is regret still at Brexit itself". The first lorries arriving at the borders entered the UK and EU without delay. On Friday evening, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps tweeted that border traffic had been "low due to [the] bank holiday" but there had been no disruption in Kent as "hundreds" of lorries crossed the Channel with a "small" number turned back.
My prediction for 2021: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Well, even then he will not get what he richly deserves for the mess he made. (Also including 20k or so additional Covid deaths he is personally responsible for....) Long-term prediction: In 10-20 years things will get so bad that the Brits will come crawling and beg to be admitted again. (The Scots will have been in the EU for a long time by then.)
I mean, a free-trade area is something you move heaven and earth to get _into_. It is not something you ever leave if there is any other choice.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The UK was fine before it entered the EU. And countries that never entered the EU like: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland, Norway, Japan, and South Korea, do just fine too. Most of the world in fact survives just fine being outside the EU. Now if the EU and UK had a trade embargo, certainly that would be a disaster, but just being outside of the EU isn't cause for alarmism.
Switzerland: EU (Score:4, Informative)
And countries that never entered the EU like: {...} Switzerland {...} do just fine too.
But Switzerland is signing bilateral treaties with the EU and more or less has similar status regarding free movement of people (e.g.: Switzerland has also signed Schengen agreements) or free-trade.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, and the UK also has signed bilateral treaties with the EU. Granted not as extensive as Switzerland or Norway. But neither are they going back to WTO rules either. Equally important is that the UK has signed carry-over trade deals with the rest of the world roughly inline with what they had under the EU. Plus now that they are outside of the EU they stand a better chance of getting deals with countries the EU was struggling with like the US, India, and Australia. The consequences of leaving the EU are n
Re:Switzerland: EU (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, and the UK also has signed bilateral treaties with the EU.
Actually: no!
They plan to keep the status quo for 2 (or was it 5?) years in a few areas which were former EU laws.
And that's it.
The consequences of leaving the EU are not nearly so dramatic as the click-baiting media would have to believe.
Sorry, you are delusional.
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Re:Switzerland: EU (Score:4, Interesting)
I doubt you have read anything. The treaty gets renewed every 5 years, which is standard for these types of FTAs. The UK is gunning for CPTPP at a rate which might get it access before Biden can rectify the burned bridges Trump left behind with TPP, which actually lost the US access to tariff-free trade, unlike the UK leaving the EU with a decent FTA.
The new UK FTA is completely the opposite of what the UK needs. The UK is strong on services and weak on goods. This gives the EU goods manufacturers full access to the UK market without giving the UK service companies access to the EU market. The mistake people are making is the standard one. Expecting a massive sudden change, which there won't be for simple reasons of inertia - changing suppliers is a pain. Failing to take into account long term drain - it no longer makes sense to set up new businesses in the UK.
If you are thinking about setting up a new business, or setting up a new office for a company from abroad, before it made sense to set up in London. Now it just makes sense to set that up in a place like Berlin, Rotterdam, Bratslava, Ljubljana, Milan (or maybe Venice - very cool) or Lyon. If, for some reason you think your business relies on English speaking support then Dublin will be perfect, but Scandinavia is probably fine too. In each of these places you will get direct access to the 400M person EU market; you get to talk directly to the regulators who are setting standards such as privacy laws world wide. You have the certainty of having the EU negotiating machine supporting your access to markets worldwide and protecting you from predatory competitors.
The great thing about the EU is that it has absolutely free trade and free movement of people. You can start with your office in one country, say The Netherlands and move to a completely different country nearby, say France and be 100% sure that any of employees, even, for example immigrants from the US that want to move will be able to and any that don't will be able to come and visit head office at any time. Do the same, moving your office from France to the UK and you are going to end up with serious problems with visas and red tape.
All these are the things which drove the tech boom in London recently and now that they aren't in London, they are the things that will suck that tech boom away and to the rest of the EU. It's not that they are impossible to overcome. People set up companies in Ukraine, and Morocco manage to supply services to the EU fine, however they have extra costs and this leads to much lower wages an higher costs and in the end much less prosperity and success for the people that live there.
Re:Switzerland: EU (Score:4)
The new UK FTA is completely the opposite of what the UK needs. The UK is strong on services and weak on goods
The UK is strong on goods too. It's a shame that you don't realise this.
About the biggest UK export success in living memory is the Eurofighter Typhoon which, guess what, is a European collaboration and where the UK is excluded from the development of the future FCAS [wikipedia.org] replacement system.
There are a number of excellent UK manufacturers in specialist fields. Raspberry PIs are great designs, even if they can't make them in the UK. Aston Martin and McLaren, whilst non UK owned, are truly effectively UK companies. Possibly even Jaguar Land Rover, although Tata has lots of say and it's more of an international company than anything else. However the UK manufacturing sector already had big problems in the '70s, was sacrificed to the financial and services sector under Margaret Thatcher and has never recovered. Companies like JCB and Rolls Royce (aero engines, not cars) are here by historical accident and their equivalents are no longer starting in the UK. Dyson, the Brexit traitor, started in the UK, forced is into Brexit and has moved his entire company to Malaysia just before Brexit. This is not a coincidence - he knows things are likely to get worse.
The treaty also does nothing to damage the UK service industry. Nothing at all. Would you rather have had a WTO exit?
Before now, most services could just simply be supplied under the single market except where there was some specific regulatory requirement. Where there was, that was easy to work with. What I would like, as a basic, would be recognition of qualifications, free movement and basic equivalency by default. All things that have been lost by this deal (compared to what we had before).
you misunderstand something (Score:5, Insightful)
2) it does not cover service to my knowledge
3) if UK does any deal which endanger EU sourcing of stuff, how quick do you think it will be revisited ?
4) the deal ALSO means UK has to follow many EU rules, how do you think that will mesh with other deal attempt ?
5) UK has NO SAY WHATSOEVER now on new EU rules but has to follow
You are an utter fool if you think you got the same "state" as before for that deal.
Re:you misunderstand something (Score:4, Informative)
But we're not beholden to the eviiuiuiuiuiuil European Court of Justice for resolving disputes. I mean sure we have to submit to arbitration with arbiters of exactly the same background as the judges but it doesn't have "European" in the name so it must be better.
You are misrepresenting this. It's not just the European thing. The ECJ meets in public with journalistic access and then publishes its decisions for all to see. The arbiters, on the other hand, work in secret, mostly sharing their decisions only with the parties involved and often bound by secrecy agreements. Also the background of the arbiters may be the same as the judges, however the judges are selected on the basis of qualification and experience for their role and are subject to public scrutiny and have to act in an impartial and careful manner, mostly weeding out the bad ones. Arbiters have no such limitations and can much more easily be connected with the parties they are judging on allowing for all sorts of interesting manoeuvrers. Just because you went to the same school as a judge doesn't mean you have to be honest like a judge.
We in the UK have had it with your "European" justice. We demand secret courts and corruption and with Brexit we are going to get it!
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The deal done with the UK is very poor. Even the Office for Budget Responsibility, the government's own independent auditor, says that it will shrink the UK economy by 4%.
The roll-over deals are crap too. Take the Japan-UK one for example. It mostly replicates the EU deal, but the quotas for the UK are just whatever the EU decides not to use. We get their leftover scraps, that's it. The Japanese basically said "take it or leave it, no negotiation". It's a great deal for them, not so much for us.
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The deal done with the UK is very poor. Even the Office for Budget Responsibility, the government's own independent auditor, says that it will shrink the UK economy by 4%.
Actually it's a reduction in growth and it's over a decade, not a year. So maybe 0.4% which nobody will notice. It is basically impossible to tell if any growth or shrinking is down to Brexit, especially with Covid happening. It'll be 20-30 years before we'll know.
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the EU has a stronger bargaining position than the UK. Saying it'll be easier for the UK to get a trade agreement with the US is hiding the fact that the US can take advantage of a now much weaker entity.
The EU has been trying to negotiate with the US and failing for several years. The reason there is a problem is the same with most things the EU tries to do, that the EU cannot get the 27 EU nations to agree what they want out of a trade deal and every single EU nation has the ability to veto anything put forward. It's the EU's biggest weakness.
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Switzerland is a very rich country (significantly better then Germany). The UK is not.
Re:Switzerland: EU (Score:4, Informative)
The GDP per capita of Switzerland is about 2x that of the UK. That is not even in the same league.
Re:Switzerland: EU (Score:5, Informative)
The UK's GDP is 4 times that of Switzerland. How do you measure "rich"?
And the population of the UK is 8 times more than Switzerland. Switzerland is full of rich people. It's a rich country.
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If our British brothers want to know why you have these problems and we don't, we already told you. In two words:
Written Constitution .
But you have to do like we did, and make it really really hard to amend it. You can't allow amendment with a simple majority.
I'll mostly give you that for lots of history, but the simple fact is that recent history shows that the US constitution is only working because most US citizens have traditionally had a stronger loyalty to the constitution than their own parties. With elected and quite political judges it seems that all sorts of basic rights can just end up ignored, depending on how the judge is feeling that day. Right now that stability seems to be breaking down with 140 house representatives planning to attempt to ignor [independent.co.uk]
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OK, I just like to see people explain their thinking. But why did you include other non-European countries? All those other countries are part of economic alliances of their own. Switzerland and Norway are the only ones in a similar geographic situation as the UK but both of them have deep ties to the EU.
Re:My prediction for 2021: (Score:5, Informative)
The UK was fine before it entered the EU.
The UK entered the EU as the "sick man of Europe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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The UK was fine before it entered the EU.
The UK entered the EU as the "sick man of Europe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Indeed. They were in really bad shape back then. But apparently they like to lie about this now. Denying reality make their outlook for the future even worse.
Re:My prediction for 2021: (Score:5, Insightful)
The UK elite financialised the economy, they only cared about the Bank of England and London, the rest was ruthlessly exploited to maximise that return, austerity used to bleed the economy dry. The UK is a financialised crippled and broken economy, needing to parasite off others to survive, the profits mainly generated by laundering all the money from off shore tax havens. The trade deals done to date, all favour the other countries and never the UK, more a willingness to take the pound as it itself takes a pounding, no real economy to back it any more. Basically surviving off the remnants of it's exploitative piratical past. A global behind the scenes war monger and resource thief, left with no power to speak off, no real economy and a monarchy that should have been consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.
Far too black and white (Score:5, Interesting)
That argument is the extreme side of the story.
You could make the same argument about most Western economies.
The UK is primarily a service based economy, which makes sense in a modern world.
Yep, I agree it is parasitical - but again, this is just mirroring the global economy.
I do fear that we are indeed heading more and more toward that extreme side, but we aren't there yet.
There is hope.
Reality checks are needed. Without this ultimately doomed parasitical financial behaviour - in becoming a haven for all sorts of tax dodging nasties and selling off pretty much everything - The UK is indeed in a poor position on the global stage.
Perhaps that reality check will end up being realised and the economy of the UK will shrink massively.
Either that, or it will rejoin the EU.
We have to remember that the UK has a significant population, so it will always be a draw for those who see a market opportunity. It is also an incredibly inventive and resilient country, that has seen off far worse and survived.
But sure, it's not looking good and very hard times lie ahead, that will make the 1970's look like a dream by comparison.
The shift to a service based economy was in reality, on the back of the fact we could never compete with the rise of Asia - it was impossible. The powers in charge back in the 60's and 70's, saw this - they knew the UK's days as an industrial power were doomed. It was a mark of extreme genius, in hindsight, to shift the country toward this new direction.
But there's a balance - and that balance has tipped - we are now far too reliant on services - and exiting the EU is going to shine a very bright light on this.
It seems completely obvious to me that the UK are going to end up with Tariffs on goods and other financial/trade barriers, as they struggle to make the City of London and the UK service led economy more attractive to investors than the EU.
It really will be a "race to the bottom".
Then again, the entire world is in a perilous state, as Climate Catastrophe takes hold, so, fun ride for us all, right?
Re:My prediction for 2021: (Score:5, Informative)
The UK was is so bad a shape when they joined the EU that it got special conditions...
Re: (Score:3)
1) So you don't understand why having trade agreements with your closest geographic neighbors is beneficial? Do I have to spell out how goods crossing the nearest borders is far easier on trade?
2) Please cite what trade agreements the UK has with those countries specifically as not part of the EU. Also you do realize that trade negotiations with other countries can take years if not decades? For example the EU trading agreement with Japan took over 4 years to negotiate. That agreement does not apply to the
Re: (Score:3)
You try negotiating a fucking deal when people are actively telling the opposition not to agree one so that they can overturn a democratic vote.
Citation Needed. What the hell are you talking about? Every deal has opposition; the problem with Brexit supporters is that they had no semblance of an idea of what they wanted. Somehow they thought every country would just line up and sign up for trade deals when history has shown trade deals can take a long time.
You try negotiating a fucking deal when treasonous cunts force a law through making it illegal for you to negotiate.
Citation Needed.
You try negotiating a fucking deal when your entire system of Government is working flat out to fuck over the country.
By "entire system of Government" you are aware the pro-Brexit supporters have positions of power in the UK government.
Get a fucking clue.
Your dishonesty adds nothing to the conversation.
Re:My prediction for 2021: (Score:5, Informative)
UK has a much higher amount of muslims than any EU country. ... you might have heard about it. ... oh, Saudi Arabia, not in the EU, lol.
It is "commonwealth" you know
And that acid incident was in
Re:My prediction for 2021: (Score:5, Informative)
France has a slightly larger Muslim population, both by the number of people and percentage of the population.
Having said that the populations in both countries are small and unlikely to grow much, and many of the people included in them are not practicing Muslims.
In case anyone was wondering (Score:5, Insightful)
Already America's private insurance companies are hard at work trying to use trade negotiations to force Britain to privatize it's healthcare industry (after all, it's just not "fair" that American companies have to compete with the government when buying and selling medicine and medical care).
This is one of the most grotesque aspects of Brexit. It was sold as a plan that would save the NHS and instead will be used to dismantle it.
Re:In case anyone was wondering (Score:4, Insightful)
Imagine thinking that the leaders of European countries aren't already selling out their own countries to China.
They're not (Score:2)
Without the EU Britain is going to get steamrolled by America and China and probably even Russia. When trade negotiations start those 3 countries will be able to make threats Britain can't respond to because i
Re: (Score:3)
They're boned. The entire point of the EU was that the individual member states weren't strong enough on their own to stand up to countries like China and the United States (or even Russia for that matter). This foolishness will leave Britain vulnerable in trade wars since they can't use the entire trading strength of the EU.
How well is the EU standing up to Russia nowadays? Last I heard the EU was bending over backwards to make sure Russia's natural gas keeps flowing. What was the EU's response to Russia's annexing Crimea? A strongly worded letter? At least the US imposed sanctions.
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https://www.consilium.europa.e... [europa.eu]
Go back to the other crackpots.
US didn't really do jack and shit (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Already America's private insurance companies are hard at work trying to use trade negotiations to force Britain to privatize it's healthcare industry (after all, it's just not "fair" that American companies have to compete with the government when buying and selling medicine and medical care).
If you look into the details of that proposal, the US actually want the UK to pay full price for US meds that are covered by US patents. Which the UK has already refused. Because it's insane.
FYI, the UK pay £2000/year per person for their healthcare, compared to $11,000/year per person in the US.
Re:In case anyone was wondering (Score:5, Informative)
Switzerland has a very close relationship with the EU, though - they accept free movement, are inside the Schengen treaty, pay into the EU budget and so on. They are, in a way, more of a EU member than the UK has ever been.
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Switzerland is half in the EU, it has to be to prosper.
Re:In case anyone was wondering (Score:5, Informative)
Nope. The UK is fucked and it did it all to itself:
GDP per capita Switzerland: 82,796 USD
GDP per capita EU average: 35,623 USD
GDP per capita Germany: 47,603 USD
GDP per capita France: 41,463 USD
GDP per capita UK: 42,943 USD
While a bit better than the EU average, the UK is nothing special and it is not even playing in the same league as Switzerland.
Re: (Score:3)
By everybody else you mean the express and the daily mail, right? This is where you got that Norway bullshit.
Here's an analysis that very much agrees with me:
https://theeconoblog.com/brexi... [theeconoblog.com]
Here's another:
https://www.capital.de/wirtsch... [capital.de]
but I guess you don't speak German.
Dude, I am not a remainer. On the contrary, I am so glad that the English are finally gone. They have been a toxic influence for too long.
Re: (Score:3)
The UK did pretty well pre-EU, they have been one of the largest powers since the Middle Ages with a powerful navy and the US as a close ally
Nowadays a powerful Navy is a liability, not an asset. It costs money to run and you can't fund it by invading countries anymore.
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Germany has only existed since 1871, making your point not just moot, but also stupid. But even so, in all the German kingdoms, principalities and counties there never has been a legal framework for slavery in the first place. There have been a few slaves imported from slave trading countries, but that's about it. Nothing like the British industrialised slave trade.
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I don't recall Germany or France fudging the books in order to become a EU member. I do recall, however, the UK stating that Greece is not their problem.
And considering that the EU is far more democratic than the UK you seem to be a real hypocrite.
UK may break. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's face it, most everybody that wanted Brexit was in England and the other parts of the UK were much happier as part of the EU. There is a good chance that in the next few years that there could be a vote in one of these parts to break off from the UK and join the EU instead, possibly even ditching the British Pound in the process.
It doesn't require much intellect to realize Brexit was a disastrous idea from it's very inception.
Re:UK may break. (Score:5, Informative)
A better than 50/50 chance that Northern Ireland will vote, under the terms of the Good Friday agreement, to unite with the Republic of Ireland. Give it time.
Re: (Score:2)
Yup it will eventually happen. Hopefully without the Ulsters engaging in war.
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Re: (Score:3)
Reunification of Ireland would be nice. Then Ireland could finally drop the CTA and join Schengen.
Re:UK may break. (Score:5, Interesting)
There wouldn't be any "possibly" about it. Committing to adopting the Euro has been one of the requirements for joining the EU for quite some time, although the actual *adoption* of the currency can take a while, with some member states still to complete the switch despite being in the block for several years already.
Interesting thing to speculate on though - in the event of an Irish reunification, then I can absolutely see the Euro being adopted after only a fairly brief transition period, and the current customs arrangements would probably also give Northern Ireland a pretty smooth path into the EU as well. Scotland might be another story; there was a lot of support for keeping the Pound (albeit the versions printed by Scottish banks) when they were last seeking independence, and there would also remain a lot of trade with England, so it would probably be a tougher call which way to go, unless the SNP wanted to make a point of a clean break with the UK (or Great Britain, if Northern Ireland has already left). Not sure if anyone would seriously consider Wales voting for independence as a plausible scenario, but unlike Scotland they can't legally print their own version of the Pound, so I'd guess Euro adoption would probably just be a matter of time.
Re: (Score:3)
The British really don't like common currencies.
They don't even have one within Britain:
British Pound Notes from Northern Ireland are not valid outside of Norther Ireland. British Pound noted from Scotland are not valid outside of Scotland (though practically, they often are accepted in England near the Scottish border; once I even managed to buy a bus ticket in Leeds using a banknote printed in Northern Ireland, but that was an exception - most English are not that tolerant as that bus driver). However, th
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
This assumes the EU wants them. Wales and Ireland have little to add to the EU on their own. It was England's coffers and financial industry that made the UK a vital member, important enough they agreed to let them keep the pound. Without England, a good part of the UK is a drain on the EU, not a positive,
I'm not saying they won't let them back in, just that it's a bit more complex than just opening up the doors for them all.
Re:UK may break. (Score:4, Insightful)
> Brexit was a disastrous idea from it's very inception.
Cluelesly wrong.
Brexit is righting some very egregious wrongs inflicted by multiple generations of arrogant politicians who thought their personal agendas were more important than democracy.
The last vote the people had before Brexit was as far back as 1975, to enter a common market (then called the EEC), which was simply a free-trade deal with no scope beyond removing stupid trade barriers.
That permission was then distorted by successive generations of arrogant asshole politicians who incorrectly believed they had a god-given right to turn the UK into a small part of a a federalist superstate and reliquish UK governmental control to a bunch of foreign countries without any referral to the citizenry at all.
Brexit is simply the result of a crime finally being reversed.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:UK may break. (Score:5, Informative)
You can find the original 1975 campaign material online. You will note that it clearly states that the EEC is a project headed towards ever closer political union, and that the politicians of the day support that.
In fact back then it was mostly the left that opposed it on the basis of having to pool some sovereignty, with the Conservatives in favour. Later it switched round as the left saw all the benefits in terms of rights and freedoms and jobs, and indeed increased sovereignty.
Note also that current polling suggests support for the EU is a an almost all time high and that brexit is regarded by a clear majority as a mistake. All the rhetoric about it not being what people signed up to is irrelevant, given that they like it in its current form.
BINO (Score:5, Insightful)
Brexit in name only to satisfy the low IQ voters. Free trade is still in place. Isolationism and nationalism lead to economic paralysis and war, anyone intelligent knows that.
Will the UK start EU2.0? (Score:2)
I could eventually see the UK try to entice economically strong countries away from the current EU and join with it on EU2.0 where nations would have much more autonomy in economic and domestic issues.
It's about time (Score:2)
Now the real experiment can start. Who was right? Will Britain wind up a shadow of it's former self, will they jump forward because the EU was holding them back, or something in between? All the pearl-clutching and grandstanding now gets put to the test.
For one, I think that Britain is in for a slow economic contraction over the next decade, as the walls between them and their major trading partner take effect. And the shrinking economic power will be mirrored by a reduction
A new error for the UK begins (Score:5, Funny)
Hardly approachs the depths of depravity of the USA error that ends three weeks from now. But a impressive shit show all the same.
Re: (Score:3)
Oh don't underestimate brexit. You guys get to start recovery in a few weeks, we are fucked for decades now.
There is probably no coming back from this, the UK is finished. Scotland will leave, NI will leave, even Wales might go. We destroyed our own country, gleefully.
A day late. (Score:2, Troll)
Yesterday's News for Nerds.
It'll be a new era alright (Score:2)
A new era of poverty and irrelevance. My how the tables have turned.
"Freedom" (Score:3)
>Boris Johnson said the UK had "freedom in our hands"
The government might have more freedom to screw people, but the people don't have more freedom.
They lost the freedom to live and work anywhere in the EU. They lost the freedom to appeal to the EU courts.
Here is an insightful song explaining the core reasons for this stupid act : https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Price of Brexit (Score:3)
What I have seen little mention of is the fact that citizen of United Kingdom can no longer live and move to other countries in Europe without requiring a visa permit. This applies for working, buying a house and so on. Just going to school in another country in Europe now requires a visa permit for citizen of UK. Other 30 countries in EU/EEA/EFTA can continue to move between countries without problems.
Any UK export now is not in any better situation since CE quality markings are no longer valid for UK unless specially approved by EU for import purpose.
It going to be clear within few weeks how fundamentally bad idea Brexit it is and that people that supported Brexit where just lied to by the likes of Boris Johnson and his allies.
Re: (Score:3)
and that people that supported Brexit where just lied to by the likes of Boris Johnson and his allies.
The father of Boris Johnson, Stanley, declared he is applying for French citizenship. He proclaimed "I alway will be European!". For him that is most likely easy as his maternal family line is french.
And so it begins (Score:5, Interesting)
The UK, as of today, made it illegal for any foreign business to ship anything worth less than £135 to the UK without registering with the UK government to collect and remit VAT. Most countries just charge the customer tax on the shipment when it goes through customs. As such, expect most small businesses to simply refuse to ship to the UK since it's not worth our trouble jumping through so many hoops to ship to the UK.
Full members without a vote (Score:3)
What most foreigners don't know, pretty much every european nation, most north african nations, many american nations, even Canada, Japan, Mexiko and Colombia are following most of the EU rules. Because thats the one and only method for free trade with the EU and that has been only open for discussion once, that was TTIP, the EU would have lowered their standards just in the one and only case of the US, to find a common ground and invite everyone else into a joint EU-US-partnership. And Trump nuked it. So the EU instead made the same offer to everyone else without caring about the US. And now the EU has a free trade area with 1500 million customers and EU laws are technically speaking "world laws".
We call them "full members without a vote". Much like Puerto Rico towards the US.
Don't get me wrong, they can have a vote anytime by becoming full members but if they instead prefer to get all rights and duties without having a vote only to call themselves "independent" then thats fine too.
Re: (Score:2)
I for one would love for this to happen simply for the inevitable arguments over "speaking English" (Cockney vs Appalachian)!
Re:Likely Outcome (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, the sooner the EU dies the better.
Because then lol suck it eu rah america fuck yeah!
right?
Or do you actually have some reasoning.
Welcome to FUKED (Score:2)
Re:Likely Outcome (Score:5, Informative)
If you think that the EU is anything like an empire you know nothing about history and are also nuts.
Re:Likely Outcome (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, in that case I am similar to the Holy Roman Empire too, then, because I am not an empire either and my name is Roman.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, in that case I am similar to the Holy Roman Empire too, then, because I am not an empire either and my name is Roman.
Ah, but the HRE was not Roman. It wasn't holy either.
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It was German and so am I. Roman is just my name. I am not holy either. So yep, I am apparently very similar to it.
Seriously now, you can't make comparisons with a dissimile. Leave that to Douglas Adams.
Re: Reasons EU became bad (Score:3, Informative)
I suspect you get your news from hate groups on Facebook. Or fox, which is pretty much the same thing.
Re:Reasons EU became bad (Score:5, Informative)
The EU is the member states. Everything it does is by the definition in the best interest of them. And as a confederation the EU is as decentralised as it gets.
That was a good one.
Shall I remind you which country has helped to destabilise the region in the first place? It was by the way the very same country that drew the borders there with the specific intention to cause conflict, just like with India and Pakistan.
This is the first correct statement. It is really good to lose a toxic influence. I just wish you'd take Poland and Hungary with you, they also don't belong.
Partitioning. (Score:3)
“ Shall I remind you which country has helped to destabilise the region in the first place? It was by the way the very same country that drew the borders there with the specific intention to cause conflict, just like with India and Pakistan‘
You forgot Cyprus, Palestine and Ireland.
Summed up so brilliantly by Yes Prime Minster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:Likely Outcome (Score:5, Insightful)
The UK needs the EU. But in this case it's the UK that is over.
Scotland will leave the UK next year. Maybe Northern Ireland too, that's quite likely in the next few years. If it wasn't for all the English living there Wales would go too.
The UK is finished. Brexit makes us poorer and throws away freedom and sovereignty. The Union is about to break up. This is it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The UK needs the EU. But in this case it's the UK that is over.
Scotland will leave the UK next year. Maybe Northern Ireland too, that's quite likely in the next few years. If it wasn't for all the English living there Wales would go too.
The UK is finished. Brexit makes us poorer and throws away freedom and sovereignty. The Union is about to break up. This is it.
Brexit was Putin's doing, you don't have to believe me. So was trump, again believe what you will. What does Putin have to gain? Everything.
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Multiple governments means we aren't putting all our eggs into one basket.
Re:Likely Outcome (Score:4)
"That vile witch" seems to be the one of the few UK politicians who actually know their jobs.
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Sturgeon's approval rating is way up because she handled the pandemic so much better than the UK government. Support for independence is in her favour too, thanks to brexit and poor treatment by the Tories.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Spain won't object. [reuters.com]. France is also unlikely to be a hindrance.
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Spain would certainly object.
Unlikely.
If Scotland can separate and join, then so could Catalonia.
That will happen sooner or later anyway. And as you single out Catalonia, you obviously have no clue about Spain anyway. _ALL_ but one Spanish region want to separate and have their own "state".
In 100 years, probably in 30 years already, the EU won't be anymore a federal construct out of 20 nations, but a federation of 120 regions.
Powers like military will be shifting upwards into EU reign, and powers like la
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Scotland will leave the UK next year.
That seems highly unlikely, not least because Sturgeon and co don't actually have any legal power to force the referendum they want, and it's not as if Boris and co are going to let them have one in the current climate.
It would also be rather ironic if they did leave because of the arguments the SNP tends to make. I mean, what kind of fools would leave a tightly integrated relationship with their closest social and economic partners in the hope of securing a future relationship that might maintain some of the same benefits but can't be guaranteed while also having the freedom to set more of their own laws and to make their own deals with other partners further afield, amirite?
Wow, when I read what you wrote, I was seriously thinking that you might have been talking about the UK leaving the EU.
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Re:Likely Outcome (Score:5, Interesting)
Scottish independence has seen a referendum, the majority voted against it.
Scotland doesn't ACTUALLY want to be independent,
That was before Brexit. It wouldn't be surprising at all if things changed now.
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Scottish independence has seen a referendum, the majority voted against it.
Scotland doesn't ACTUALLY want to be independent,
That was before Brexit. It wouldn't be surprising at all if things changed now.
I appreciate the Scott's desire for independence, but Brexit also shows the deeper problem behind it. People in Scotland now have to ask what they truly mean by independence. Do they want independence just from the UK or from it all, because one cannot call it independence when one only chooses a new master. Some now assume it means getting back into Europe, others want it to mean complete independence. In the past was the later group the dominant voice behind Scottish Independence. Now this movement is spl
Re:Likely Outcome (Score:5, Insightful)
Scottish independence has seen a referendum, the majority voted against it.
They voted against it when voting for it would have meant getting out of the EU. Funny how you "forgot" to mention that tiny little detail...
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Funny anecdote to strengthen your argument. I was in the UK 2 years ago doing the whole tourist thing across the country, the only place I saw the EU flag was Edinburgh and Glasgow. On the flip side through my travels through Europe I've seen the EU flag in every city usually attached to some important looking building.
Re:Likely Outcome (Score:5, Interesting)
https://www.ft.com/content/c8b... [ft.com]
Seems like the remain campain wasn't wrong after all.
Re: (Score:2)
Goldsmith remains politically active (and vindicated). His speeches are worth a listen.
Re: The EU is a US creation (Score:5, Funny)
I worked with a Turkish guy who was convinced that Turkey was at the heart of every great event in history. Seems that's what they drum into Turkish kids at school. He sounded just like you when you say the US created the EU.
Re: (Score:3)
Does the UK have to be in the EU? Not really.
Does the UK have to be prosperous? Not really.
Does the UK have to have strong worker rights and environmental laws? Not really?
Does the UK have to avoid a race to the bottom? Not really.
There are a lot of things the UK doesn't have to be. Doesn't mean it's a good idea though.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
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Quite a lot of shit in the middle east has been caused by the UK in the first place. What goes around, comes around.
Re:Trump: 4 years of pain. Brexit: 20 (Score:4, Funny)
Oh yeah nothing bad ever happened in the middle east before the UK...
Re: (Score:3)
Based on your figures I guess the UK had within a rounding error of zero crime before joining the EU. That's an incredible achievement. No doubt you can somehow blame September 11 attacks on the EU too with your bright mind.
Re:Remoaners would rather live on their knees... (Score:5, Informative)
The UK has the unelected house of lords [wikipedia.org] welding power. You can't get rid of them. It's ironic that the UK complains about being governed by people they didn't elect, while Members of the European Parliament are elected but peerages are inherited.