South Korea Leads World In Innovation; US Drops Out of Top 10 (bloomberg.com) 125
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: South Korea returned to first place in the latest Bloomberg Innovation Index, while the U.S. dropped out of a top 10 that features a cluster of European countries. Korea regained the crown from Germany, which dropped to fourth place. The Asian nation has now topped the index for seven of the nine years that it's been published. Singapore and Switzerland each moved up one spot to rank second and third. The Bloomberg index analyzes dozens of criteria using seven equally weighted metrics, including research and development spending, manufacturing capability and concentration of high-tech public companies.
Korea's return to the top spot is mainly due to an increase in patent activity, where it ranks top, alongside a strong performance in R&D and manufacturing. Second-placed Singapore, which has been allocating budget funds to help workers and companies transition to a digital economy, also scores high for manufacturing -- and its globally competitive universities put it top of the tertiary education gauge. Switzerland, a leader in financial and biological technology, ranks near the top in both of the index's research categories. Germany's loss of the crown follows a warning two years ago by Juergen Michels, chief economist of Bayerische Landesbank, who said the country lacked skilled workers and a proper strategy for next-generation technology. As the two biggest economies, the U.S. and China account for much of the world's innovation. But both saw their rankings decline this year.
The U.S., which topped the first Bloomberg Innovation Index in 2013, dropped two places to 11th. The country scores badly in higher education, even though U.S. universities are world-famous. That underperformance was likely made worse by obstacles to foreign students, who are usually prominent in science and technology classes -- first due to the Trump administration's visa policies, and later to the pandemic. China, which fell one place to 16th in the 2021 index, is locked in a battle with the U.S. over key aspects of innovation policy. Other gainers in this year's index include India, which climbed back into the top 50 for the first time since 2016, and Uruguay, which qualified for the first time. Algeria and Argentina were among the countries that fell furthest.
Korea's return to the top spot is mainly due to an increase in patent activity, where it ranks top, alongside a strong performance in R&D and manufacturing. Second-placed Singapore, which has been allocating budget funds to help workers and companies transition to a digital economy, also scores high for manufacturing -- and its globally competitive universities put it top of the tertiary education gauge. Switzerland, a leader in financial and biological technology, ranks near the top in both of the index's research categories. Germany's loss of the crown follows a warning two years ago by Juergen Michels, chief economist of Bayerische Landesbank, who said the country lacked skilled workers and a proper strategy for next-generation technology. As the two biggest economies, the U.S. and China account for much of the world's innovation. But both saw their rankings decline this year.
The U.S., which topped the first Bloomberg Innovation Index in 2013, dropped two places to 11th. The country scores badly in higher education, even though U.S. universities are world-famous. That underperformance was likely made worse by obstacles to foreign students, who are usually prominent in science and technology classes -- first due to the Trump administration's visa policies, and later to the pandemic. China, which fell one place to 16th in the 2021 index, is locked in a battle with the U.S. over key aspects of innovation policy. Other gainers in this year's index include India, which climbed back into the top 50 for the first time since 2016, and Uruguay, which qualified for the first time. Algeria and Argentina were among the countries that fell furthest.
I wonder if they are measuring what (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:I wonder if they are measuring what (Score:4, Insightful)
Its Bloomberg so My guess is there is some political reasons why it happened as to maybe take 1 last jab at last president who the Owner hates. Which magically we will return to top 10 the next time they do this "index"
Yes, for a country that has ranked 9th, 8th, 11th, and 9th in the previous 4 years, the possibility that next year it might jump from 11th back into the top 10 (the same way it did 2 years ago) could only be explained as "magically".
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Even magical thinking is pretty mundane these days.
Re:I wonder if they are measuring what (Score:5, Insightful)
Choosing to post such a story may have a political stance behind it, however being posted do you have any evidence that the material is trying to lie or deceive us?
Many of the "News" sources blaming traditional News sources for being partisan political, are actually entertainment sites/stations that pose to be News. Where their main goal is get and hold on to viewers who will see its Ads that it will sell.
But the fact is, the United States has been getting metaphorical Fat and Lazy for a long time, even before Trump took office.
After WWII The United States was the only large country who's infrastructure wasn't ravaged by War. So Post WWII America was in a strong position, where it was the world leader, as it had the money and the resources to help out anyone who was being friendly to them. As it had a full range of fairly modern factories, that hadn't been burned out. Then during the Cold War, much of Europe's growth was stifled by the threat from the Soviet Union, and they were still leaning on the United States for protection from that threat.
So for the 1950-1970's especially the United States was really unstoppable. In the 1980's Japan finally being rebuilt started to show off being a major innovator and economic driver, however Japan is also a small country, with limited resources, so it couldn't sustain such a boom. But in the 1990's after the end of the Cold War, we started to see American Innovation slow down, while the rest of the world has caught up, Leaving the United States with a system of an aging infrastructure, old outdated factories, where a lot of the economy is based on out of date products. Where many countries who are now rebuilt are just in a much better position to deal with the problems, and now can compete against America where they weren't able to do so before.
America got use to its unstoppable position, put less collective effort into innovation of the new and better, and just focused on finding ways to do what it does for faster and cheaper. We have positioned ourselves in a "Race to the Bottom" where we are just trying to be cheaper than our competitor. We are not focusing on being better, or bringing much new to the field.
We have/had a few good spots of innovation for America.
Apple with its iPhone design sparked a new way of using portable computers.
Tesla making electric cars that people wants to drive
Google bringing web based services to the public.
However Apple is starting to loose out on the newer phones by other makers like Samsung and LG where they are making equivalent products, so Apple either needs to keep costs down, to stay competitive. Because there hasn't been a new cool new device from Apple in a while.
Tesla is a newer company, however other car makers seem to be investing in Electric Cars now, with many interesting products expected later this year or in 2022. We will need to see how Tesla can handle having competition in its own market.
Google while rather big on innovation, actually has the opposite problem where it usually fails to deliver a good long term solution. Google is notorious for dropping ideas, vs improving on them, if they get board with it.
To be an innovative country, we cannot just assume that just because we are America we will win, They are real competition out there.
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Eventually we'll slide to being as irrelevant as Russia in leading the world. Only retaining respect because of the significant danger we pose to the world. A century from now, Europe and Asia will be wringing their hands trying to figure out what to do with us.
Re:I wonder if they are measuring what (Score:5, Interesting)
The decline of the USA is primarily due to two seemingly contradicting phenomenons: slackness of its people and greediness of its government.
As the USA becomes the number 1 superpower with high living standard post WW2, its people, especially the younger generations, naturally want to enjoy more instead of working hard. They bargained for labor union protection or shunned dirty manufacturing jobs for comfortable office jobs. They handed the challenging scientific / engineering fields to educated immigrants. (This is actually natural to all developed economies as the same can be seen in Europe, Japan, and even China today. And this is good for the rest of the world. Think about that: if the people of a successful nation keep working hard and smart forever, where would be opportunity for the poor countries?)
At the same time, the US government and its military industry complex were extremely greedy in defeating all other nations, especially the number 2 guy, militarily and international control.
* In attempt to get an upper hand against the Soviet Union, the US insisted to let Republic of China to become one of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council which backfired decades later as PRC took the seat.
* In attempt to win over the whole Korean peninsula, the US military crossed over the 38 latitude after pushing back the North Korea force and marched all the way to the border of China, that caused China to fight with the US and, despite of much much weaker military and economy, eventually forced the US to quit without winning [wikipedia.org], thereby establishing China's credibility on the world stage.
* In attempt to control Vietnam, the US lied about being attack and launched the Vietnam War, ended up with a life-long humiliation.
* In attempt to win the Cold War [*], the US betrayed its ally Taiwan ROC and befriended with PRC, raising up the super Asian dragon whose economy is projected to overtake the American's in just a few years, while the Soviet Union became Russia and still remains a military threat as before.
* In attempt to wrestle controls of Afghanistan from the Soviet, the US bred Osama bin Laden who later launched the 9/11 attack.
* In attempt to win against Iran, the US sold chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein.
* In attempt to revenge against Saddam Hussein, the US fabricated accusations of WMDs and launched the Iraq War which ultimately led to the 2008 Financial Crisis.
* Today, the US is about the repeat the same mistake it had on China: try to fight China by allying India whose population will soon surpass that of China's.
You see. The US has done all of these despite being the number 1 superpower but yet not powerful enough to defeat the number 2 superpower alone.
Instead of coexisting with the number 2 superpower and lead by large margin, the US insist on defeating whoever is the number 2 superpower. Nobody will defeat the US Empire except its own greediness.
[*] This was confirmed by Henry Kissinger [nationalreview.com] the architect of the US-China relation, as opposed to the claim, repeated recently by US politicians, especially officials in the Trump administration, that the US befriended to China in attempt to bring "democracy" to China.
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Innovation doesn't come from working hard at your job, it comes from working hard at your hobby. If you work 60 hour weeks in the boiler room style open office at work making sure the TPS reports are done in triplicate, you are not coming up with great new things. If you are busy filling out 60 page proposals and clarifying what you meant by "is" on page 33 4th paragraph 3rd sentence, you are not coming up with great new things.
If you are waiting in line at the DMV and jumping through flaming hoops for the
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ITs typical modern american to blame everything on politics, most non Americans I know have nothing good to say about the good old USA, its pretty obvious without a report the USA is on a decline and has been for a while.
The actual modern American, is unfortunately handcuffed to politics right now, as tens of millions of unemployed citizens that used to thrive quite nicely in shuttered industries, are now highly dependent on the government dole that is hardly showcasing support, particularly when compared to other countries.
Most Americans would have never had a reason to care this much about politics. But right now, political decisions are affecting almost every citizen.
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Its Bloomberg so My guess is there is some political reasons why it happened as to maybe take 1 last jab at last president who the Owner hates. Which magically we will return to top 10 the next time they do this "index"
I doubt it. We've spent some years being anti technology, anti innovation, and anti science. We've concentrated mostly on pecuniary extraction of capital, and that doesn't allow for much innovation. Maybe for apps that allow you to invest in stocks, but I'm having trouble thinking of many. Any help there?
The world moves on with or without us, and just like science doesn't give a damn what we think, neither does the rest of the world.
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It's almost like the article said what it measures!
"The Bloomberg index analyzes dozens of criteria using seven equally weighted metrics, including research and development spending, manufacturing capability and concentration of high-tech public companies."
Re:I wonder if they are measuring what (Score:5, Informative)
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That's a long "RTFA".
The standard response from evangelicals is "God always existed". Thus, he doesn't need a creator of his own. Interesting work-around, you gotta admit.
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Interesting work-around, you gotta admit.
"Interesting" isn't the word I would use. I think the word you're searching for is, "Space Ranger".
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The problem is that these are randomly chosen metrics with profound measurement issues that give a superficiality of "numbers" but have no such accuracy. Then you say one nation scores 198.5687 and another scores 174.371 and you are pretending to have a meaningful number there when you really don't. So yeah, this is just another listicle, such as which countries are the best to take a vacation in, as measured by an index of seltzer water prices in top hotels -- Spain has a 124 whereas Italy is only 112! Oh
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The problem is that these are randomly chosen metrics with profound measurement issues that give a superficiality of "numbers" but have no such accuracy
A poor metric is better than no metric, though if you have a poor metric you shouldn't pay attention to fine distinctions, because those are likely to be artifacts of the details of what you chose to measure and how. But large variances and overall trends can still be highly informative and useful.
This particular metric seems pretty reasonable to me, though.
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Still doesn't explain how the US companies, and more precisely those in Silicon Valley are outrageously dominating the world in every domain that is related to innovation.
It's not like the world is not trying to compete with Google, Amazon, Tesla, or SpaceX. But they failed miserably because the pace of innovation by those companies is just crazy, plus they suck literally every talent out of the planet.
So I can understand why people question the metrics and the conclusions. Researcher concentration is a j
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Ability to read the summary.
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I wonder if you understand what they are measuring and what this index shows or if you just looked up the word used in the title in the dictionary...
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they think they are measuring? Lots of patent activity? foreign student considerations? etc.
And are any of the criteria normalized to the size of the country? China and the US are so large that any non-normalized metric should have them near the top due to sheer size.
"The Bloomberg index analyzes dozens of criteria using seven equally weighted metrics, including research and development spending, manufacturing capability and concentration of high-tech public companies." The term "concentration" suggests some sort of normalization. Manufacturing "capability" sounds very mungible. No country in
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This is all based on Ramen consumption, the only technology metric that matters.
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Samsung and Starcraft (Score:2)
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Starcraft [ytimg.com] is crap. (SFW)
And why should this matter? (Score:4)
That underperformance was likely made worse by obstacles to foreign students
I really struggle with this one. Because first off the USA has a diverse domestic population of people with lineages from all over the world. We are also a large enough population that we really should be able to produce plenty enough 1%ers (in terms of best and brightest of humanity; not money) to be innovation leaders without 'importing people' who are as yet unaccomplished. Attracting people who have already demonstrated they are 1%ers is a little different ball of wax. The foreign students though for the most part of would be folks yet to enter science or industry.
Call me a nationalist or whatever names you like; but I would much rather see us focusing on fixing whatever the issues are that preventing our own children from being innovation leaders than on trying to import even more of other peoples kids from across oceans.
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I know, to much to ask from our educators in America.
Heck, American Universities are so advanced and exclusive many American children struggle to qualify.
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I think that statement was only to explain why the US had dropped. It has long been held up by imported brainpower, and the US educational system has been pretty lackluster for a while.
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Keep in mind that one of the items they judge is the "concentration" of high tech companies. Not the number of these companies, the quality, the size, the impact, just the number per capita.
This is an odd way of defining "leading", it would be as if Liechtenstein leads the world in athletics because they have the most Olympic medals per capita.
And without digging into the research methodology, I suspect that research spending is relative to the size of the economy, which has the same argument going against
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We can do both (Score:2)
Other countries are doing that. We're not. The reason for this is that we get to have those educated people without spending the money it takes to educate them. You've got to decide if you want our country to spend that money or not.
Re:And why should this matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
America has had an anti-intellectualism problem for decades. It just isn't cool for Americans to be smart let alone scholarly. The highest paid people in education sector are football coaches. Half the country literally tries to prohibit teaching of actual science in favor of religious fiction, and one of the two major parties has a stated goal of defunding education. The other party "meets them in the middle" by only defunding education a little bit at a time. I don't know if this is a problem that can be "fixed" because it's ultimately an ideological/religious issue. The populace believes that education is inherently elitist and/or sinful, and they sure as hell won't pay for poor people to go to school.
American universities underperform why? (Score:1, Offtopic)
No, we aren't becoming less innovative because we aren't helping other nations become more innovative, it is because we let polit
Re:American universities underperform why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:American universities underperform why? (Score:4, Insightful)
That is true but its also a symptom itself. We fell into 'leave no child behind' in education 'solution' because we allow globalism to remove entire pillars of our economy. Not only did we send most of the jobs that innovate making something with your hands over seas we created a culture that looks down on the people who do the ones that remain for the most part.
At least until we have general purpose robots that can match or beat a man in every way in terms of dexterity, strength, environmental tolerances there is a need for both kinds of work, physical and mental and treating one is more important than the other or somehow 'better' is just a value judgement and not one based in any real fact.
However that is where we are; your chances at having a comfortable middle class life style in American are rapidly diminishing if you are not a knowledge worker of some kind. So the interventionists responded by doing what they always do and intervened even more and doubled down on this everyone needs college degree theory of economic growth; rather than evaluating if their demolition of the old nationalist constructs actually promoted the "general welfare." I don't think it has, I think in absolute terms its delivered greater GDP growth but its bringing increasing wealth concentration. The rising tide isn't lifting all ships, its clearly swamped some and leaving the little ones behind.
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Well it does not have to be that way exactly. Even assembly line workers can be rotated from station to station. However I don't think there is anything wrong with someone being satisfied doing that sort of work.
Not everyone lives to work. Some people really do choose to work to live. Some people just want to chase their own hobbies and standing at an assembly line lets them think about their artistic ambitions for the evening and weekend puts food on the table and pencils in their box.
Its also not some r
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You have no idea what you are talking about because "no child left behind" was actually a mask to do exactly the opposite
No it wasn't. It was an attempt to punish failure and reward success. It worked mostly as you describe in practice because the measures of success were defined in myopic way and tended to measures absolutes where such policies should probably be looking at rates and direction of change.
One could make the similar equally disingenuous claims about common core, and say its scheme to generate equity rather than equality by ensuring everyone gets an equally crappy instruction based on awful curricula poorly matc
The dumbasses get left behind pretty quick (Score:2)
The problem is we don't want to spend the money to educate kids. The reason you're seeing so much foreign labor and so many foreigners in college instead of k
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Re: American universities underperform why? (Score:1)
You certainly were taught to "hate everything", European anchor baby. :P
You disqualified when you referred to non-psychopathicism as "Marxist", and put SJWs and sane people in one bucket together, when really, you and SJW would go together in one bucket really well. (Hey, maybe you'll cancel each other out! ^^)
Name one thing... (Score:3)
What have the South Koreans ever done for us? ...Phones?
Well, of course the phones - that goes without saying. But besides that, what have the South Koreans ever done for us?
Re: Name one thing... (Score:2)
Kimchi? *throws up sour fire*
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Okay TVs. But apart from phones and TVs what have they ever done from us. Okay kitchen and laundry appliances, but apart from phones and TVs and kitchen and laundry appliances, what have the south koreans ever done...
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LCD and OLED screen technology, Samsung and LG are beating the pants off of everyone.
Chip fabrication, Samsung has one of the cutting edge chip fabs in the world, right next to TSMC in Taiwan.
Samsung has also consumed the TV, Phone, and home appliance sector in recent years.
Samsung is also making ground in the battery manufacturing sector as well.
Hyundai now owns one of the most advanced robotics companies (Boston Dynamics).
Oh and car companies, Hyundai and Kia,
They've also been exporting Korean Pop music a
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It's not a competition! (Score:3)
We're all benefitting from it.
Nobody's harmed.
How selfish does one have to be, to treat it like a competition?
And separating the groups by country borders is also arbitrary and nationalism.
Using patents to measure it, is just patently ridiculous. Not only because the importance of a patent is ignored.
How about we list the coolest innovations of the year for the entire planet? Sorted by usefulness.
(Tech cancer like touch screens or wireles charging or surveillance being of negative usefulness, aka harmful.)
That would get everyone somewhere, and be more useful than this crapticle.
Re:It's not a competition! (Score:4, Interesting)
How selfish does one have to be, to treat it like a competition?
One does not have to be selfish at all to treat it like a competition. Not all competition has to be cut throat, you have to fail so I can win type. "Innovation" isn't a zero sum game. Because I invent some stuff in no way means you can't also.
As long as we are all just seeing who can run the fastest by trying to run faster its not selfish at all. Its only when we start knee-capping one another it becomes a selfish pursuit and there is no requirement we do that.
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Because I invent some stuff in no way means you can't also.
As long as we are all just seeing who can run the fastest by trying to run faster its not selfish at all. Its only when we start knee-capping one another it becomes a selfish pursuit and there is no requirement we do that.
The international patent system would like a word with you....
That fucking thing is all about knee-capping one another and making damn sure I invented something so you can't also.
Innovation ? (Score:2)
Good job voters! (Score:2)
This is bad news... (Score:2)
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Foreign students (Score:2)
That underperformance was likely made worse by obstacles to foreign students, who are usually prominent in science and technology classes -- first due to the Trump administration's visa policies, and later to the pandemic.
And S.Korea's place at the top of the list is thanks to its famously open-armed attitude towards immigrants in general, and foreign students in particular.
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Think about it for a moment: the foreign students the USA were importing are staying in South Korea and other places. The real issue is why kids in the USA aren't as smart or driven as kids from anywhere else.
Define? (Score:2)
Innovation 1000 patents for the better adhesive do not necessarily innovation make.
I'm not sure measuring innovation is something empirical.
There is quality, and quantity where as quality is probably more important and harder to measure.
The article is paywalled , does anyone have a list of what they actually looked at?
Here we go again (Score:2)
Blaming Trump for things that have been happening for decades. "That underperformance was likely made worse by obstacles to foreign students, who are usually prominent in science and technology classes" Crock o' beans! The US taught these foreign students who go back home and set up industries to compete with the US. Meanwhile, American students are farting around with useless degrees in touchy-feely crap.
No surprise with vast cash hoards and lock-in (Score:4, Interesting)
I think a big problem with innovation is the number of giant companies with hugely profitable business lines whose customers face big switching penalties.
These companies accumulate huge cash hoards you'd assume would be used to innovate new products. Yet their market dominance and switching penalties for their customers means that they only have to innovate incrementally and in many ways superficially.
They also wind up comparing nearly guaranteed returns on their cash in short-term securities, like Treasuries, and decide that investing in innovation is odds-on likely to return less net profit than just keeping them parked in Treasuries.
The economic down side is that this money doesn't circulate in the economy.
I wish I had answers, but we're in this weird spot where securities markets are more valuable than product innovation and large entities have almost non-existent motivation to spend their money.
but... America First? (Score:2)
Competing in a global marketplace is hard! Making laws is easier.
Oh yeah? (Score:5, Informative)
The US .. in the last 20 to 30 years developed and improved:
Biotech:
mRNA vaccines
CRISPR gene editing technology.
DNA sequencing technology
Computers:
Self driving cars - Tesla and Waymo lead
CPU design - nVidia, AMD, Intel lead
CPU design software - Synopsis, Mentor graphics etc. nobody is even close.
3D graphics design software - Maya, Unity etc.
CAD software - Autodesk
Game design software - Unity, Unreal engine
Web design frameworks - Vue, Reactjs etc.
Social media - invented Facebook, instagram, twitter, youtube
Gig economy - Invented Uber, Airbnb, Taskrabbit etc.
Engineering:
Re-usable and self-landing rockets - SpaceX leads
Improved Methane rocket engines (Russians pioneered it, but the investment required to make it commercially viable)
Mars probes, sent probe to Pluto
Electric cars - Tesla leads
Robotics - Boston Dynamics -- nobody has anything close
Warehouse Logistics - Amazon
Meanwhile, China only figured out the metallurgy to make a ballpoint pen's nib in 2017. Google it if you don't believe me.
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> Robotics - Boston Dynamics -- nobody has anything close
True, but even they're owned by the South Koreans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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in the last 20 to 30 years developed
Cool story. Nothing at all to do with the Innovation index though. Maybe look up what is being discussed before angrily posting an irrelevant counterpoint. They aren't sitting around counting developments.
Mind you the China thing: "figure out the metallurgy" is another great way of showing you've got NFI what you're talking about. China outsourced production of a commonly made component to other countries. That's a cost benefit thing nothing more. There are far more complicated constructions than the tip of
Re: Oh yeah? (Score:2)
No they used to make pen nibs, but those bibs sucked because they didnâ(TM)t have the correct alloy.
Obvious reason #0,1, 2, and 3: ROI (Score:2)
You want to do *basic research* at a company? On company dollars? Rather than just refine what works? But... that cuts ROI!
Overwhelmingly, most basic research, the stuff that leads to jumps and new things, comes from universities... and even a lot of that, is GOVERNMENT FUNDED. (Example: the NIH funds about 60% of all basic biomedical and bioscientific research in the US.)
And the GOP hates education, because someone with an actual education may call their lies lies, and vote against them due to "enlightened
Re:Covering for Education (Score:5, Insightful)
The country scores badly in higher education, even though U.S. universities are world-famous. That underperformance was likely made worse by obstacles to foreign students, who are usually prominent in science and technology classes -- first due to the Trump administration's visa policies, and later to the pandemic.
Well, that's certainly one creative way to ignore the hell out of the actual decline of the US education system, which has far more to do with children not growing up and maturing, and those spoiled "adults" attending a school where they're sold a worthless degree along with a healthy dose of liberal brainwashing, in exchange for a lifetime of education debt and a permanent spot in the gig economy.
I don't think you will find the countries beating the US any less liberal ;D
So maybe your attitude is the real problem?
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I don't think you will find the countries beating the US any less liberal ;D
Really? I thought that South Korea WAS less liberal than the US.
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It depends. You are trying compare very nebulous topics Liberal vs Conservative. With countries with a very different culture.
American Liberals are considered, Big Government, Strong Safety Net, Equal Rights.
American Conservatives are considered, Small Government, Individual Responsibilities, Religious Rights.
So a country with say Small Government, Strong Safety Net, and Strongly Religious we may call conservative, however their Safety Net Program is so well developed and a major part of the country, tha
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I don't think you will find the countries beating the US any less liberal ;D
Also, I see that Israel, my country, where gay marriages or even secular marriages are illegal, and conservative and reform jews are not accepted, is also on the list.
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I dabble in recent AI developments related to image processing techniques, and, well here are the typical names of the people involved in some of those projects:
Ziyu Wan, Bo Zhang, Dongdong Chen, Pan Zhang, Dong Chen, Jing Liao, Fang Wen, Xintao Wang â Ke Yu â Shixiang Wu â Jinjin Gu â Yihao Liu â Chao Dong â Chen Change Loy â Yu Qiao â Xiaoou Tang
I wager it's the same thing with other cutting edge techs. I have the feeling far-east Asians are doing all the research
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I think the argument is that is effect rather than cause. Pretty much any human has roughly equal chance at being competent at that, but socioeconomic strategy is currently favoring certain nations on these fronts.
So the 'solution' to having more equal success among people is not solely to spread out the currently succeeding people, but thinking about the context that works to enable those nations and what can be adapted, what is worth it, and what isn't worth it.
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Academia has the problem many industries do on steroids. You spend years training to be a researcher, an enormous amount of specialized knowledge gets concentrated in you, then you either become a professor and spend your time in committees and other non-productive work, completely forgetting how to actually do research, or you quit and go to industry because academia has no viable future for you.
So yeah, academia, particularly the STEM research fields, absolutely depends on students and postdocs.
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One camp wants to say that foreigners are just inherently better, and our anti-immigrant stance caused it, despite that being a relatively short time and not able to explain decades of faltering prior to that.
Another camp wants to say that 'wokeness' caused us to invest our education resources in the wrong way, as if the paltry amount of effort invested in that inflicts a significant constraint on anything.
Both camps fail to recognize the more relevant issue. Corporatism has sold out American innovation. Th
Re:Covering for Education (Score:5, Informative)
The country scores badly in higher education, even though U.S. universities are world-famous. That underperformance was likely made worse by obstacles to foreign students, who are usually prominent in science and technology classes -- first due to the Trump administration's visa policies, and later to the pandemic.
Well, that's certainly one creative way to ignore the hell out of the actual decline of the US education system, which has far more to do with children not growing up and maturing, and those spoiled "adults" attending a school where they're sold a worthless degree along with a healthy dose of liberal brainwashing, in exchange for a lifetime of education debt and a permanent spot in the gig economy.
Why the fuck you respond to a statement that has some obvious political flavour/bias in there, just to throw in the opposite political bias in response? "liberal brainwashing" is the problem with higher education? WTF, I would say thinking like yours is more the problem of society at large. BTW the top-10 list is full of what you'd probably call extreme liberal countries. No idea how much actual value this list has, but it is a bit amusing how if you try to view it politically (surely education transcends or should transcend petty politics) it is the opposite of what you are trying to claim. Here it is, since we got a paywall article:
1 S. Korea
2 Singapore
3 Switzerland
4 Germany
5 Sweden
6 Denmark
7 Israel
8 Finland
9 Nedtherlands
10 Austria
11 US
Re:Covering for Education (Score:5, Interesting)
Social democracies doing well.
Re: (Score:2)
Imagine that. It's almost like treating your citizens like human beings pays off! Of course it goes against the conservative group think, which say that privation and beatings are the best way to improve performance, so it won't get much traction here.
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And yet, the US was #1 when the list started in 2013, and has been declining since. This was, for those not keeping score:
1. Half of the Obama years
2. Trump years, where his contribution was to accelerate the problem by restricting students to universities.
The latter is actually a position of the left. The non-Trump right likes open borders for both business and universities, as many foreign students end up staying and using their advanced degrees here.
More business = more powerful economy = more money fo
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Eta: General restrictions on immigration for domestic jobs reason is traditionally a position of the left, not students to universities.
Anyway, we are getting the worst of both worlds, left and right, instead of the best. Apparently, as Shakespear said, as you like it!
Failing to compete (Score:3)
You'll need to look back much further to make any sense of this. It's not reasonable to pin it on a single president. Especially considering the limited scope that Presidential policies have when compared to legislative policy and the changes we've seen in our society.
Some nations adapted to the information age. Other nations are failing at it. A nation that legally protects lies and allows people to be fed utter nonsense 24/7 is one way to fail hard.
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More business*es* may help, but unfettered corporate behavior results in fewer businesses through massive mergers to the point where a market is dominated by a single player both so entrenched no one can hope to break in and also makes so much money from low-risk, low-innovation strategies that they won't touch the higher-risk innovation strategies (research budget without certain payoff).
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5 Sweden
6 Denmark
8 Finland
9 Nedtherlands
4 Germany isn't a social democracy in the Nordic model but it has many of the of the traits.
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No I mean there are many other social democracies that don't feature on that list. I.e. the fact that 4.5 of them are on the list is not the reason for their success.
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But they are also many more capitalist countries that don't feature on the list as well.
At the very least we can conclude that being a social democracy is apparently no barrier to being a world leader, despite claims to the contrary.
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At the very least we can conclude that being a social democracy is apparently no barrier to being a world leader, despite claims to the contrary.
Indeed we can. My entire point was that being capitalist or a social democracy is not actually a factor.
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The country scores badly in higher education, even though U.S. universities are world-famous. That underperformance was likely made worse by obstacles to foreign students, who are usually prominent in science and technology classes -- first due to the Trump administration's visa policies, and later to the pandemic.
Well, that's certainly one creative way to ignore the hell out of the actual decline of the US education system, which has far more to do with children not growing up and maturing, and those spoiled "adults" attending a school where they're sold a worthless degree along with a healthy dose of liberal brainwashing, in exchange for a lifetime of education debt and a permanent spot in the gig economy.
Why the fuck you respond to a statement that has some obvious political flavour/bias in there, just to throw in the opposite political bias in response?
Care to elaborate as to exactly how "higher" institutions like Evergreen college have been decimated if not for their generous application and acceptance of liberal brainwashing? Hell, even the traditional liberal professors were attacked by that idiocy. Do you understand how bad it has gotten, or will Cancel Culture eventually prove that to you in their race to force zero-tolerance on the entirely of humanity while arrogantly riding a massive wave of hypocrisy? I wonder how popular Cancel Culture is in
Re:Covering for Education (Score:5, Insightful)
This is what is wrong with higher education
Nobody wants to be an Engineer (Score:2)
We slashed funding for basic science, shut down Bell Labs and did 30 years of non stop Austerity where nobody would pay for anything unless it was profitable in this quarter. Your problem isn't a couple of diversity experts that get paid like shit, your problem is engineeri
Re: (Score:2)
Have to agree whole heartedly. All this "we don't allow enough immigrants" versus "we are too fixated on being woke" misses the point. Neither of those has been a substantial enough thing to make a difference, even if one or the other is wrong.
America has chosen to embrace monopolies and oligopolies and limit public spending. No where in that equation is something that encourages innovation. A private market with too many players is too inefficient, but too few players means its far more profitable to coas
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I didn't miss the point, my stance is that as much as it might frustrate you that you saw a few people hired due to what you believe is a frivolous pursuit, it's *nothing* compared to what it would take to move the needle in innovation.
I would further contend that no matter how 'right' schools do things, our businesses are not inclined to take advantage of the results anyway. They don't want to pay for researchers and even when they hire a researcher, they will not let that researcher have resources to purs
Re: (Score:2)
This is what is wrong with higher education
No. This is simply a result of supply and demand. The availability of programs and diversity directors does not determine people's desire to enroll. Higher education isn't the problem, the people seeking it are.
A good friend of mine has a simple rule for his children: "I'll support you to study any university degree that existed when I was at university, otherwise pay your own way."
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It fails because it's never been anything than a cover story for dictatorial kleptocrats.
The term "useful idiots" was coined to describe the true believers running around spouting memes, to get masses behind the kleptocrats.
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The solution to too many pigs in charge of myriad businesses is to give one person the authority to tell everyone what to do, and you are shocked, shocked! when the biggest pigs of all, skilled at literally killing their political enemies, come out on top?
Oh Lord, can we please stop blaming individuals (Score:1, Insightful)
As for "liberal" education you watch too much Fox News. As somebody who just put a kid through college it's entirely focused on job training. Even the "liberal" arts are there to teach you business writing. You're being told lies by rich assholes
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My kid had 45 students in their high school math classes.
Let me take a wild stab you live in municipality where democrats have held power for at least several decades and your per pupil spending is at least in line with national averages. However fact you get these horrid results can't have anything to do with the management choices those left leaning mayors, aldermen, commissioners, board members and union leaders make...
As somebody who just put a kid through college it's entirely focused on job training. Even the "liberal" arts are there to teach you business writing.
Well what choices do they have? Since mandatory public education in the k-12 space failed to deliver on teaching basic professional correspon