In First, Uber Agrees To Classify British Drives As 'Workers' (nytimes.com) 62
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times: For years, Uber has successfully deployed armies of lawyers and lobbyists around the world to fight attempts to reclassify drivers as company workers entitled to higher wages and benefits rather than lower-cost, self-employed freelancers. Now the ride-hailing giant is retreating from that hard-line stance in Britain, one of its most important markets, after a major legal defeat. On Tuesday, Uber said it would reclassify more than 70,000 drivers in Britain as workers who will receive a minimum wage, vacation pay and access to a pension plan. [It does not give the full protections of the classification known as full "employee," which includes paternity and maternity leave and severance pay if dismissed, among other benefits.] The decision, Uber said, is the first time the company has agreed to classify its drivers in this way, and it comes in response to a landmark British Supreme Court decision last month that said Uber drivers were entitled to more protections.
The decision represents a shift for Uber, though the move was made easier by British labor rules that offer a middle ground between freelancers and full employees that doesn't exist in other countries. That middle ground makes it unclear whether Uber will change its stance elsewhere. More labor battles are coming in the European Union, where policymakers are considering tougher labor regulations of gig-economy companies, as well as in the United States. In a statement, Uber said last month's court decision "provides a clearer path forward as to a model that gives drivers the rights of worker status -- while continuing to let them work flexibly, in the same way they have been since Uber's launch in the U.K. in 2012." Uber hasn't disclosed how much the reclassification would increase its operating costs, but the company maintains that it will become profitable this year.
The decision represents a shift for Uber, though the move was made easier by British labor rules that offer a middle ground between freelancers and full employees that doesn't exist in other countries. That middle ground makes it unclear whether Uber will change its stance elsewhere. More labor battles are coming in the European Union, where policymakers are considering tougher labor regulations of gig-economy companies, as well as in the United States. In a statement, Uber said last month's court decision "provides a clearer path forward as to a model that gives drivers the rights of worker status -- while continuing to let them work flexibly, in the same way they have been since Uber's launch in the U.K. in 2012." Uber hasn't disclosed how much the reclassification would increase its operating costs, but the company maintains that it will become profitable this year.
Just imagine if... (Score:3, Funny)
It's a good first step, but imagine if it saw them as people.
Are British people (Score:1)
SATA or SCSI?
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Another typo the incompetent /. editors will never fix.
Probably meant drones, not drives (Score:2)
Of course, reclassifying drones as workers is a social injustice to bees.
They didn't agree to it (Score:5, Insightful)
and NHS! (Score:2)
and NHS!
Re: and NHS! (Score:1)
They even provide complementary phrase books and language courses for conversing with medical staff.
Re: and NHS! (Score:4, Insightful)
It's hilarious how you say this with a sarcastic tone while studiously ignoring the fact that the NHS is indeed regarded as great by very large majorities of Brits, has largely wonderful staff, delivers an amazing service, and consistently delivers better outcomes for the whole population than the US health system. No-one ever goes bankrupt paying for care here; everyone has access to a family doctor, for free, who can refer them for specialist treatment, for free, if need be. Whether it's outcomes, processes, equity, efficiency or any other metric, the NHS does amazingly well and specifically better than the US, despite 10 years plus of Tory depredations.
Your sneering is about as misguided as your compatriots' taking comfort in their guns.
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The British public's relationship with the NHS is a bit strange. On the one hand everyone thinks it's great and uses it when they need to, and is very appreciative of the care they get. Most of us went out and clapped during the pandemic when NHS staff were on the front line.
On the other hand when it comes to actually properly funding the NHS and paying NHS staff... Well people seem unwilling to vote for that, and don't get too upset when the government hits them with a pay cut.
Re: and NHS! (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's not exaggerate: everyone agrees that the NHS is useful, but it is clearly underfunded, leading it being quite shit, so the wealthier people go private instead, which, thanks to the complementarity of the system, remains quite affordable.
The situation in the US is quite different and ridiculous, and is a constant reminder of why one wouldn't want to live there.
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When the NHS is less than stellar it's a deliberate decision by the government to try to run it down and privatize it. The government would get rid of it tomorrow if it wasn't electoral suicide, so instead their goal is to wreck it slowly until people lose faith in it.
You don't know shit until you've been to the US (Score:2)
On top of that our hospitals are critically understaffed because they've been bought out by Venture Capitalist firms who are slashing staff to make back the cash the borrowed to buy said hospitals. We have unemp
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>> And people wonder why Americans are tired of subsidizing the defense of wealthy First World democracies who can easily afford it,
Don't worry, America is pulling out of Germany and Europe is slowly becoming its own power bloc, independent of the US. The recent deal the Euros signed with China is a big indicator of that shift.
Who knows, maybe one day Americans will be able to talk like adults about why we have 800 military bases around the world, but we "can't afford" universal healthcare. Hell, may
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We can all dream, but the unelected US government dragged its feet until they could get rid of Trump. Now the bases aren't going anywhere, no matter how unpopular they are with Germans. All they do is act as springboards for military adventures in the Middle East. We all wish we could close them, but the elected government has no meaningful voice and the people even less.
It speaks volumes that the EU prefers Hong Kong democracy destroyer and Uighur genocider China to trade with the USA.
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What the fuck are you talking about? I responded to someone who was saying the NHS was shit because it's run by the government. *That* is bigotry right there, because it's a view held without regard to evidence. I made specific assertions as to why this was not true, all of which can be checked (eg the NHS's popularity with the public is regularly tested by pollsters and it is indeed very popular, or the favourable comparison of the NHS vs the US health system for population outcomes). None of this is a vie
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Ah. You would be the urban Labour supporters who pissed on the working man in the UK. Told them they were a bunch of stupid racists and had thrown away any concept of morality and responsibility by not voting for you. And then when, shock and surprise, they gave you the finger, you decided the UK is a racist backwards hellhole that wants to shit on everyone less fortunate.
Yeah, I wonder why that didn't work out for you. Why your own bigotry is invisible to you. I've had this conversation before and ever
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You never once had a conversation with anyone where they said any of the things you put in quotes, did you? You've written what you like to imagine what they said, but not what they actually said, because you think it makes for a stronger action. If that's the best you can do; if you can't construct a better argument than one that relies on pretend things you made up; then it's pretty fucking pathetic.
Anyhoo, back to what I said before: bigotry is holding views without regard to the evidence. That's somethi
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If those quotes were from Reddit, you'll be able to provide links to them, won't you? Because quotes, you know, stuff you put inside quote marks, are used to show someone else's speech in support of a point you're making. But that's not what you've done. You've made up quotes to pretend to have support for a point you are making. And your point -- that my attitude to working class voters is bigoted -- rests on the quotes being lurid enough, and they're not. It's a lie at the heart of your argument. The fact
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"As a left wing person, Iâ(TM)ve always said that by and large this country is a racist backwards hellhole that wants to shit on everyone less fortunate. And there you have it." [reddit.com]
"Fucking hell I hate my fellow Britons. How the cunting fuck do they live with themselves?" [reddit.com]
And then you can look up and down the thread, and search by the day after the election and see these widespread attitudes. I love how you pretend to be unfamiliar with them, as if Labour doesn't utterly despise the working class. Ho
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> regarded as great by very large majorities
On "surveys" where the questions are wildly tuned to get positive responses. Diabetics, for example, have weirdness. Insulin and syringes are free, but they insist on human insulin (which is more than 5 times the price of animal insulin) and refuse to provide enough glucose test strips based on a misinterpreted study about Type 2 diabetics from nearly 20 years ago, or to provide insulin pumps for children. Been there, done that.
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Couldn't follow the logical leap from surveys to T2D.
Re surveys, if you're going to assert bias in poll construction, perhaps you can cite a specific example of a leading question designed to provide a positive answer about the NHS?
Re: and NHS! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's substantially cheaper than the US system.
It provides better outcomes than the US system
It covers a higher percentage of the population (100%) than the US system
It's also fundamentally different: the NHS has a goal of providing good healthcare for everybody. US healthcare providers have the goal of making money for their share holders. I know which one I'd put my trust in.
and will they cheat the time clock? (Score:2)
and will they cheat the time clock? and not pay all mileage?
Say pay only book time and not real drive time?
Pay map miles (that may send you down an one way the wrong way) vs real miles
Don't pay for open waiting for fare time?
Don't pay for drive time from airport holding area to pickup area?
Don't pay for return time after an long run to get back to your core area?
Will they have to take some kind of knowledge test?
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Well that's down for uber and their drivers to negotiate.
Time spent working (including sitting around waiting for work) or travelling to a non-fixed place of work is considered as working hours, and there are laws governing the maximum number of working hours as well as the minimum hourly wage.
Re:and will they cheat the time clock? (Score:4, Informative)
The difference is between different classifactions of labour. Full time labour, Casual Labour, Contract labour. The generally distinct is you are working for them full, time they tell you when to start and when to stop etc, so more benefits provided (holiday pay, sick pay, rostered days off, public holiday). Casual labour, you are not working for them full time, less benefits paid, catch, higher wage has to be paid (no holiday pay, no sick pay, no rostered days off, no public holidays, so you pay the cost of those in a higher wage). Contract labour, you contract a job to them, they control themselves, they start when they want and go as fast or slow but they get the job done and you pay for it.
Uber employees would be casual labour, so the minimum wage plus about 25% extra for no full time worker benefits or Uber can choose to treat them as full time labour and pay those benefits and the lessor minimum wage (they would do this because they would run operations as teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and bet on never having to pay because they expect to go belly up).
So as casual labour, they book up the second the work is booked to them, the employer tells them where to go and when to get there, so the employer has to pay for that, either built into a loading above minimum wage or directly. Also Vehicle mileage does have to be paid for from the location of booking to end of booked journey.
Waiting for the next disruptor (Score:3)
because only pushing all the cost of labor onto people got Uber its 'competitive' advantage.
Who's going to take over that role from Uber now?
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Who's going to take over that role from Uber now?
Taxis. You know? Cars with taxi licence plates on them and they often a sign on the roof that says "Taxi".
Unpossible (Score:1)
We've been told time and time again that Uber's business model isn't viable if they had employees and obeyed labour laws. Are they suggesting that this was a lie?
This is my shocked face: > (-_-)
Re:Unpossible (Score:4, Interesting)
We've been told time and time again that Uber's business model isn't viable
Uber's business model is not viable. They are losing about half a billion dollars per month.
They are just trying to stay afloat and keep their market share until they can transition to self-driving cars.
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1. That might be the world you'd like to rail against, but unless you've got some evidence, it strikes me as complete twaddle.
2. Cash in hand? Do you even know how Uber works? It's a quintessentially cashless business!
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Not in the UK. In the UK, if you want to drive a taxi, you need a private hire licence for the area in which you are operating and you need commercial insurance. Uber will help you get those things, but you can't drive a taxi for Uber or anybody else without them.
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Why do you think self driving cars will save them? They'll need a fleet of them which will be a huge capital outlay plus a huge maintenance cost.
Now you could argue that people will rent their self driving cars to Uber while they are not using them, but that will only last until the first time the car comes back with vomit all over the seats.
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That looks like a surprised pikachu face.
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What the fuck are you on about? Being an employee means you get sick pay, holiday pay and pension entitlements, plus minimum wage protections. It's fantastic news, and these things obviously mean a lot to Uber drivers because *that's why they have been fighting for them*
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Not true. In the UK there is a separate worker [www.gov.uk] classification. A worker has fewer rights than an employee.
So they didn't have to pull out? (Score:1)
Untoward effect (Score:2)
A LOT of drivers will disappear from the platform in the UK. Along with new benefits come very awkward questions about rights to work in the UK, National Insurance Numbers etc. : something many of their drivers have a rather relaxed attitude to because they a) Don't qualify for any of them because they are working illegally or b) they don't particularly want the tax man knowing about all their tax fiddling.
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I would assume the UK does the same as any other European country: the tax is automatically deducted from the wage and the company pays it to the tax authorities.
Just wait for the other shoe to drop (Score:3)
How many Uber drivers are going to like being told "You are required to wear a dress shirt and long pants or a skirt", "You may only play music from the approved list", "You must play the music the rider wishes.", or "You are required to work from 8pm until 4am because we need someone to fill that shift."
pay for wait time, pay for all miles, also (Score:2)
pay for wait time, pay for all miles, also
As for routes will the UBER routes pass the knowledge test?
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And then that routing software takes them to an place or way that knowledge test says you can't do that / you can't set down there?
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What is the person drives off a bridge because he thought the bridge was open when it was closed?
No more multi-dipping, either (Score:1)
As workers for Uber, the drivers will likely no longer be allowed to simultaneously drive for multiple ride-hailing services. It is common in the US for a ride-hailing driver to be on the apps for both Uber and Lyft at the same time, taking rides from each, as a way to maximize income during the times they choose to drive.
As a pseudo-employee or worker of Uber, Uber will have the right to forbid this practice as an unreasonable conflict of interest.
It's conceivable that drivers will also be forbidden from d