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CDC Says Travel Is Safe For Fully Vaccinated People, But Opposes Nonessential Trips (npr.org) 105

Posted by msmash from the where-things-stand dept.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has updated its domestic travel guidance for fully vaccinated people, lifting certain testing and self-quarantine requirements and recommending precautions like wearing a mask and avoiding crowds. But health officials continue to discourage nonessential travel, citing a sustained rise in cases and hospitalizations. From a report: The CDC updated its website on Friday to reflect the latest scientific evidence, writing that "people who are fully vaccinated with an FDA-authorized vaccine can travel safely within the United States." The announcement comes less than a month after the CDC first released updated guidance about gatherings for fully vaccinated people, which it described as a "first step" toward returning to everyday activities.

The CDC considers someone fully vaccinated two weeks after they receive the last dose of vaccine. Those individuals will no longer need to get tested before or after travel unless their destination requires it, and do not need to self-quarantine upon return. The new guidance means, for example, that fully vaccinated grandparents can fly to visit their healthy grandkids without getting a COVID-19 test or self-quarantining as long as they follow other recommended measures while traveling, according to CDC Director Rochelle Walensky.
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CDC Says Travel Is Safe For Fully Vaccinated People, But Opposes Nonessential Trips More

CDC Says Travel Is Safe For Fully Vaccinated People, But Opposes Nonessential Trips

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  • business trips are essential (Score:4, Insightful)

    by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Friday April 02, 2021 @02:26PM (#61229406) Homepage Journal

    But family vacations are not. Because that's capitalism.

    Of course, if the tourism industry had better lobbyists than the finance and tech industries, we'd see the government singing a different tune.

    • Here in Norway you can pay the "penalty" to skip the quarantine hotel. They will let you go without repercussions if you only pay. It's absolutely absurd.

    • Not sure what you're referring to, but surprisingly the tourism industry has boomed for the last year (check stocks of e.g. Expedia).

      • Revenue is down in 2020 [statista.com]. My wild guess is because people have been on lock down and travel has been restricted for most of last year.

        Have you considered that the stock market is a big sham? Buying a stock is a bet on a fantasy world that doesn't exist yet, and the price is based on a mutually agreed to fantasy. Look, I play table top RPGs and enjoy acting out a shared fantasy with my friends. But I'm not about to use that as a basis of an argument.

        • Well indeed, considering the link you provided the stock market does seem like a fantasy land - my guess is that all the stimulus was used to buy back shares to increase profit for shareholders instead of supporting lost salaries as intended.

    • Based on the amount of cruises I've seen, tourism was essential.

    • Indeed, my wife, I, and my son's caregivers qualified for vaccinations already because of his disability. But he's too young to get it himself, so we can't go anywhere. And we desperately need to get him out of the house. Hurray for a nothingburger from the CDC, the people who brought us the 6600 decades ago.
    • No, Capitalism is all about the people privately supplying goods and services for each other. It doesn't matter why anyone would want to travel, Capitalism leaves that to the consumer and the business.

      This is Authoritarianism. Government enforcing arbitrary rules upon the populace without their consent. Hell, without even a rational basis. What the hell does it matter if vaccinated people fly around for whatever damned reason they choose? Why is the government still trying to control travel after any

  • Nonessential trip?

    At what point will it be essential that I actually get out and do something to stop myself from going nuts?

    • Re:essential nonessential trips (Score:4, Insightful)

      by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Friday April 02, 2021 @02:33PM (#61229436)
      You can go out and do something now. The CDC is not saying people have to be indoors all day in a bunker. What it recommends is people do not make nonessential travel plans (planes, trains, boats). If your grandmother is ill and you need to see her, go. If you want to see fly to see the worlds largest ball of twine, you can still go but you are the one putting people at risk including yourself.

      • One thing that is always forgotten:

        Nothing wrong with traveling to a deserted or Covid-free place. Expecially when you are tested and wear a mask there too. (Assuming you know how to get there without significant contact, or quarantine some days at the target place so the tests actually can detect something. E.g. quarantining over the 3-day weekend, driving there in your car, and then testing at arrival in $nowhere, is less risky than staying at home and going shopping for food every week.)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by trawg ( 308495 )

        Wish I had mod points, I love this explanation.

      • BUT YOU'RE VACCINATED!

        Thus cannot possibly put anyone at risk, or be put at risk. There is no justification for continued restrictions on travel. None, at all. That's the whole point of vaccinating people - so they can get back to normal life. Why would the CDC tell vaccinated people NOT to go back to normal life? The only reason I can think of is that they got so accustomed to being important that they want to stay in charge.

        This is America, we don't need their authoritarian bullshit.

    • We're almost done (Score:4, Informative)

      by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Friday April 02, 2021 @02:44PM (#61229502) Homepage Journal

      Nonessential trip?

      At what point will it be essential that I actually get out and do something to stop myself from going nuts?

      CDC is recognizing that we're about 46% vaccinated, the R value is less than one, and Covid cases have dropped off a cliff. (See last chart on this [worldometers.info] page, as a quick measure of Covid in the US.)

      We're vaccinating at a rate of 2 million per day, all the at-risk people should be vaccinated now, it's less damaging than the flu for the rest of the population(*).

      (Also, an unknown portion of the population has had it, so it's really much better than 50% protected.)

      180 million remaining at 2mil vaccinations/day means 3 months to finish it, here in the US. it makes sense to start easing restrictions before that.

      Let's say in another month. Does May 1st sound about right?

      (*) Yes, yes, it causes sneaps and sniggles and lasting unblemonished damage to the fribulary, but so can the flu. Statistically and on average, Covid is less dangerous than the flu to the remaining population. Stop living in fear.

      • We're doing better than 3 million vaccinations per day now.
      • What are you taking about? Who's saying the R value is less than one, or did you just make that up? Although the current rate of new cases is lower than it was when it peaked in January, cases are rising again as we enter the fourth wave. Don't believe me? Take a look at Michigan: https://www.worldometers.info/... [worldometers.info]

      • May first seems reasonable.

        But your link shows me cases going up after a shorter trough than before.

        I'm skeptical of it being less that the flu for long term (or even short), I think it's simply better diagnosed.

        Never have I known somebody to say they have had the flu from a day of feeling bad after being with someone that had the flu, but with covid-19, that's pretty common.

        I don't think we're quite at R less than 1, but very very close.

        We are almost certainly past it being that much worst than the flu (in

      • No, today sounds right. May 1st sounds like keeping vaccinated people under lockdown without any possible justification other than, "we like to be in charge, shut up."

        Keep in mind what the headline says. We aren't talking about avoiding unnecessary travel if you aren't vaccinated, but for when you are, and thus cannot spread it. The CDC should really be telling everyone who has been vaccinated to fly where the hell ever for what the hell ever reason, because you're safe but the economy isn't.

        So, why

    • Apparently, whenever the CDC decides it doesn't enjoy telling everyone what to do anymore. Even granting them every benefit of doubt, any justification for them having any authority over what we do ends with the vaccine. There is no medical, scientific, or rational basis for them to tell any vaccinated person to avoid travel. There are many economic reasons for people to travel, no matter why.

  • doesn't want you having any fun, until this is all over.

    • doesn't want you having any fun, until this is all over.

      I doubt serious if the CDC will EVER concede that it is over.

      I'm not saying it is now, but they aren't even good at giving good news that things are seriously looking better...at least in the US.

      If they keep this up as the number look better and better, I think many folks will change their views and start to view this as more of a government control thing than a health safety thing.

      • I think the CDC is too much in pessimistic bend the truth to increase caution mode.

        Hopefully statements like this (people with vaccine are allowed to travel free) is a start to being allowed to look at risk/reward instead of minimizing risk.

        They have been for a year being (in some ways too) extreme to try and get people to be better behaved. Often to the detrimental (and in deadly ways (eg only a serious mask helps).

        I'm not sure how it is where you are (in freedom vs safety), but where I am I actually think

      • I guess the CDC has to error on the side of caution, because if they don't people will 'run with it' and do whatever they want. But that doesn't mean their statements aren't ridiculous

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Octorian ( 14086 )

        doesn't want you having any fun, until this is all over.

        I doubt serious if the CDC will EVER concede that it is over.

        Its not the CDC I'm worried about.

        Its the news media and all the "public health experts" who are gleefully enjoying their newfound fame in being harbingers of pandemic doom. You know, the ones who manage to take every single uncertanty or caveat (because the real experts always speak in uncertainties and caveats) and find a way to spin it into bad news. These people are treating the pandemic as though it were a company's stock they had a short position in, while writing articles on Seeking Alpha and Busines

      • That happened back when a "two week" lockdown for the purpose of "flattening the curve" became 3 weeks, then a month, then two months, then three months, then "unless you want to engage in approved political protests", and, "unless you're a powerful politician or the family member of one." Blatantly arbitrary and capricious rules like, "you can buy a hammer but not carpet", and, "you can go out on a rowboat, but not a motorboat. Unless the governor is your wife." just helped drive the point home. This s

    • Yes, the CDC, whose job is to protect us from disease, doesn't want you having (traveling, disease spreading) fun during a global pandemic. You know that the not-having-fun is the side effect, not the goal, right?

      • Except if you're vaccinated you're supposed to be allowed to return to normal life. Have you not noticed that every time we're told something is temporary it never goes away? Remember how we were locking down for only 2 weeks? That was 13 months ago, and it still hasn't ended. Why should we keep believing people who keep lying in order to keep their "temporary emergency powers" FOREVER?

  • Does the vaccine also stop cross contamination? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by lw54 ( 73409 ) on Friday April 02, 2021 @02:42PM (#61229492)

    > fully vaccinated grandparents can fly to visit their healthy grandkids

    Does this mean vaccinated people are no longer likely to be spreaders or does this just push the danger onto the people they can now visit?

    • Does this mean vaccinated people are no longer likely to be spreaders or does this just push the danger onto the people they can now visit?

      History has shown people can be carriers [wikipedia.org] of deadly diseases and not suffer any effects themselves. I would say the chance is not 0%.

    • > fully vaccinated grandparents can fly to visit their healthy grandkids

      Does this mean vaccinated people are no longer likely to be spreaders or does this just push the danger onto the people they can now visit?

      It depends.

      Fully vaccinated for the two shot vaccines means about two weeks after the 2nd stab, because it takes your body a bit of time to manufacture the antibodies necessary to fight off the infection. With a three week interlude between shots, that means 5 weeks from the first dose.

      At that point, although there is a nonzero chance of infection, you are 80% likely not to get the 'rona, and in the high 90 percentile unlikely to get a severe case if you do. That makes you an unlikely, but not an impossibl

      • Let's be a bit more specific about what's actually going on:

        What OP is asking is like asking:
        If I have an army that onows how to detect the enemy and attsmack it, there is an army stealthily invading my island, how likely is it that some troops will invade a neighboring island before they are all caught and killed?

        Well... of course it can happen.

        If somebody coughs Covid droplets straight into your mouth, and you then cough it straight into another non-immune person's mouth three seconds later, he is almost

  • Once I have the vaccine, I feel like anything should be allowed.

    It either works, or it does not. If the vaccine doesn't work, are we supposed to remain secluded until the end of time? That's just not realistic nor practical.

    If it does work, what is the point of limiting trips? In fact those vaccinated should be encouraged to travel, as they might theoretically take up places in planes/restaurants that would otherwise be potentially used by non-vaccinated people. You need as many vaccinated people out in

    • It either works, or it does not.

      Not true. It could protect someone from getting ill without preventing them from infecting others.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by kqs ( 1038910 )

        Exactly. Once almost everyone is vaccinated, then even if you get an asymptomaic case you probably won't pass it on to anyone else. Until then, even vaccinated people can be dangerous spreaders (though still far less dangerous than unvaccinated people).

        This is not about protecting the person with the vaccine, it's about protecting everyone who has not been able to get the vaccine yet (and the people who refuse to get the vaccine; turns out that even the terminally gullible don't deserve to die).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dknj ( 441802 )

          Until then, even vaccinated people can be dangerous spreaders (though still far less dangerous than unvaccinated people).

          Then what you are taking is not a vaccine. TDAP is a vaccine and when I take it, I do not dangerously spread it to e.g. babies. A vaccine prevents you from catching the actual disease. So what are you taking that can still allow you to be a dangerous spreader?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by kqs ( 1038910 )

            "It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." Yup, no doubt here.

            I don't know if there has ever been a 100% effective vaccine. TDAP is 80-90% effective, so if you are sufficiently exposed to tetanus, diphtheria, or pertussis, you've got about a 10-20% chance of getting it (though probably a mild case) and potentially passing it on to babies. Fortunately, 80% effectiveness is enough for herd immunity, so you are unlikely to be exposed to it unless the ant

    • Once I have the vaccine, I feel like anything should be allowed.

      You do understand that vaccines are not 100% effective, right? If it does not work for you, you could be infected and pass it on to others.

      It either works, or it does not. If the vaccine doesn't work, are we supposed to remain secluded until the end of time? That's just not realistic nor practical.

      Please learn what vaccine efficacy [wikipedia.org] is. It is not binary at 0% or 100% for the entire population. There is a percentage attached for a reason.

      In fact those vaccinated should be encouraged to travel, as they might theoretically take up places in planes/restaurants that would otherwise be potentially used by non-vaccinated people.

      Why do I need to travel because I can travel? I did not travel before COVID; I should take up a different lifestyle for whom?

      You need as many vaccinated people out in the world as possible, to buffer the remaining people.

      It take about 70% to achieve herd immunity. With an estimated 7.8B people worldwide, that is 5.46B people t

      • We know vaccines are effective. According to the CDC a full round of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are 100% effective. They are only less effective in the period between shots or the first two weeks, but even then they are 90% effective.

        • We know COVID vaccines are over 90% effective.

          Fixed that for you. There is the always the chance that getting the vaccine does prevent infection in a person. That person could then go on to infect others who have not had the vaccine.

          According to the CDC a full round of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are 100% effective.

          Citation Needed. The CDC says clinical trials showed the Moderna vaccine was 94.1% effective [cdc.gov] in a controlled laboratory environment.

    • I feel like you're a colossal douche nozzle.

  • CDC is wrong (Score:3)

    by ghoul ( 157158 ) on Friday April 02, 2021 @02:44PM (#61229500)
    A lot of young people are tempted to travel because of all the discounts. If fully vaccinated folks are encouraged to travel, they would eat up all the capacity and prices for travel will go up. Which means unvaccinated younger folks wont be tempted to travel that much. Unvaccinated stay at home. Vaccinated travel around creating a buffer to transmission. Travel businesses stay out of bankruptcy Win-Win-Win.

  • It is already well known that the vaccinated have still caught Covid.

    So, it begs the question, what is their definition of safe?

    • 1. Caught is much less, at a level that is an acceptable death rate, comparable or mich lower than the common cold.
      2. Nothing is perfect. You can still catch mutations or have a generally weak immine system.
      You can tell the army of Luxemburg all about how to catch a $literallyAnyCountry invasion. They still won't be able to stop it.

      Joke on the side: How many tanks does Luxemburg have? One or two!? ... NONE! :D They got none! They only got 300 teens that failed their parents and got sent there as "soldiers"!

  • They see things from a single perspective.

    When it comes to people's travel they should only advise the President. Potus then factors the CDC's recommendations in with all other department's recommendations and formulates a policy.

    • When it comes to people's travel they should only advise the President. Potus then factors the CDC's recommendations in with all other department's recommendations and formulates a policy.

      Why does everything need to go through the President especially when it comes to CDC's own recommendations? I think President Biden's stance would be: whatever the CDC recommends. Again this is a recommendation (suggestion). CDC does not control travel and thus does not need to clear with say, Commerce or the FAA, about matters of health and safety.

  • Statements like this cause loss of credibility (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ITRambo ( 1467509 ) on Friday April 02, 2021 @03:27PM (#61229686)
    Why would anyone say that you can safely travel, but they don't want you to? What are they thinking? Damn.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Corbets ( 169101 )

      I remember the days when newspaper articles assumed that an individual’s attention span was more than a single sentence, and they were capable of processing multi-faceted, non-binary truths.

      Sadly, those days were pre-Internet.

  • Call it a "COVID passport" if you want, but it's still an internal passport designed to restrict your internal movement by force of law. This will be one of the great tests of whether or not the average American deserves to live a dignified life with a measure of freedom. If there aren't mass protests to the idea that we have to present papers to the authorities to do basic things in public, then we will deserve literally anything the state does to us.

    • Call it a "COVID passport" if you want, but it's still an internal passport designed to restrict your internal movement by force of law.

      Yes because we would all prefer to be ruled by anarchy instead. In many cases, the COVID passports will be enforced at borders. So are you saying you should ignore the rules of other countries on who they will allow into their country?

      This will be one of the great tests of whether or not the average American deserves to live a dignified life with a measure of freedom.

      Ah yes, it is always about FREEDOM. It is never about responsibility or sovereignty. Specifically is about your freedom to do what you want. What about my freedoms to keep living? Does that factor in your freedom at all

      If there aren't mass protests to the idea that we have to present papers to the authorities to do basic things in public, then we will deserve literally anything the state does to us.

      [sarcasm]Yes because I never have to show I am licensed to

      • The only precedent even close to having to show your vaccine papers when moving around within your own country's borders in the US is for student dormitories in universities. Freedom of movement and nondiscrimination in public accomodation is either codified in law in case of the latter and pretty much presumed in case of the former.

        Internal passports is what totalitarian states do.

        • So I do not have to show my driver's license when pulled over by a police officer? I do not have to show my library card to check out a book? I do not have show proof of work eligibility when filling out paperwork at my new job?

          • You do have to show your driver's license when pulled over by police, but police do not pull over every vehicle crossing state lines.

            You have to show your library card to check out a book, but not to enter the public library.

            You have to show your id to work at Target, but not to purchase a stuffed teddy bear and pay in cash.

    • Nobody in the world gets your problem with passports in the US.

      RFID passports and scanners everywhere definitely will be a problem we must prevent from ever happening.

      But regular passports. It's a booklet in your pocket. Serious question: What do you think will happen?
      (I'm open to being convinced.)

    • Call it a "Driver's License" if you want, but soon you'll have to show a card to go anywhere by force of law. To get on a train or bus or airplane or even if you drive yourself! (cut, paste your rant).

  • If you leave the US you are *required* by the CDC to get a covid-19 test 3 days before your flight. If you do not, you cannot board, if you test positive, you are essentially stuck in that country for 2 weeks until a doctor signs you off as "recovered", doctors don't want to take on this liability, so some people are flying to nearby borders and driving into the country then boarding another plane to get around this
  • Then why oppose non essential travel?

  • The human body is quite resilient, as has been proven over the last 300,000 years. It has proven statistically safe for the average person to be infected with SARS-CoV-2. Natural immunity after recovery protects many. Now, vaccines protect even more. At what point do the majority of people realize that continued closures and restrictions are unnecessary?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dknj ( 441802 )

      You talk as if long haul covid is not an actual problem. Glad you are not part of the 30% who are afflicted by this disorder!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Corbets ( 169101 )

      Not even a basic understanding of how evolution works here. Wow. Impressive.

  • Sending contradicting messages here...

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