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Open Source Software

The FSF Doubles Down On Restoring RMS After His Non-Apology Apology (zdnet.com) 517

Posted by BeauHD from the standing-behind-him dept.
In late March, the Free Software Foundation (FSF) readmitted its founder Richard M. Stallman (RMS) to its board, catching everyone by surprise. Now, weeks later, RMS "offers a defensive non-apology apology for the words and actions that led to his resignation from the FSF," writes Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols via ZDNet. Slashdot reader destinyland shares an excerpt of his statement from the Free Software Foundation's official website: Looking back over his life starting as a teenager, Stallman writes: "I realized that I didn't understand the subtle cues that other people were responding to. Later in life, I discovered that some people had negative reactions to my behavior, which I did not even know about. Tending to be direct and honest with my thoughts, I sometimes made others uncomfortable or even offended them -- especially women. This was not a choice: I didn't understand the problem enough to know which choices there were."

"Sometimes I lost my temper because I didn't have the social skills to avoid it," Stallman adds. "Some people could cope with this; others were hurt. I apologize to each of them. Please direct your criticism at me, not at the Free Software Foundation. Occasionally I learned something about relationships and social skills, so over the years I've found ways to get better at these situations. When people help me understand an aspect of what went wrong, and that shows me a way of treating people better, I teach myself to recognize when I should act that way. I keep making this effort, and over time, I improve. Some have described me as being 'tone-deaf,' and that is fair. With my difficulty in understanding social cues, that tends to happen."

This is just an excerpt. But through eight short paragraphs, Stallman seems to want to offer up a larger context for his badly-received defense of Professor Minsky on an MIT mailing list. (And Stallman adds later that "I condemn racism and sexism, including their systemic forms, so when people say I don't, that hurts too...") "I've learned something from this about how to be kind to people who have been hurt," writes Stallman. "In the future, that will help me be kind to people in other situations, which is what I hope to do." "RMS did not, however, address the many other issues which caused people to regret his return to a position of leadership," writes Vaughan-Nichols. Soon after the RMS post appeared on the FSF's front page, the board spoke on why they'd brought him back. The unsigned document states: The voting members of the Free Software Foundation, which include the board of directors, voted to appoint Richard Stallman to a board seat after several months of thorough discussion and thoughtful deliberation.

We decided to bring RMS back because we missed his wisdom. His historical, legal and technical acumen on free software is unrivaled. He has a deep sensitivity to the ways that technologies can contribute to both the enhancement and the diminution of basic human rights. His global network of connections is invaluable. He remains the most articulate philosopher and an unquestionably dedicated advocate of freedom in computing.

RMS acknowledges that he has made mistakes. He has sincere regrets, especially at how anger toward him personally has negatively impacted the reputation and mission of FSF. While his personal style remains troubling for some, a majority of the board feel his behavior has moderated and believe that his thinking strengthens the work of the FSF in pursuit of its mission. We take full responsibility for how badly we handled the news of his election to a board seat. We had planned a flow of information that was not executed in a timely manner or delivered in the proper sequence. [...]
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The FSF Doubles Down On Restoring RMS After His Non-Apology Apology More

The FSF Doubles Down On Restoring RMS After His Non-Apology Apology

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  • the broad spoke (Score:3)

    by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:52PM (#61265356) Journal

    Good job editors.

    L O L

  • ... he is saying, ~~ it's not my problem, Get over it. ~~

    • Re:The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by HanzoSpam ( 713251 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @03:56PM (#61265384)

      Good for him. Let the snowflakes go fuck themselves.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by epiphani ( 254981 )

        And this here is the fundamental issue in this entire conversation. This is barely about RMS to some, and more about screwing over a section of the population that is disliked.

        RMS cannot hold the position effectively without drastically reducing the FSF ability to complete their stated mission. Full stop. This has been demonstrated by the very fact that these conversations are happening, as loudly and as presently as they are. And the choice to keep him in place is either horribly shortsighted, or an in

        • How have the people complaining supported the FSF? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:20PM (#61265476)

          RMS cannot hold the position effectively without drastically reducing the FSF ability to complete their stated mission

          That's' what you claim, yet how many of the people complaining about RMS have been donating to the FSF? I'd warrant the percentage is extremely low.

          I've been donating to the FSF for over a decade now, and if RMS is gone so is my money.

          In what way exactly do you see the FSF mission being impacted by those complaining? I can't see it altering anything at all.

          I know he cannot effectively lead anymore as a result of it.

          I know he can, like a sword that has been through the forge he will be strong for the experience.

          • Re: How have the people complaining supported the (Score:4, Insightful)

            by peragrin ( 659227 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @05:35PM (#61265870)

            Since 80% of their donations came from corporations a lot.

            Those companies walk away so does the money flow and then it isn't the snow flakes whining. It is the FSF whining they don't have any money.

            The ESF the lawyer and legal team for the FSF thinks bringing stallman back is a bad move.

            When your lawyers thinks it is bad then you lose abilities.

        • Re:The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:20PM (#61265484)

          but I know he cannot effectively lead anymore as a result of it.

          Why not? There are certainly a lot of people who share the view of "fuck the snowflakes" and if they are the people who actually do the work rather than complain about being offended by things then there's unlikely to be a problem.

          Maybe a snowflake-based FSF is what is needed, a hard fork, and let's see which one succeeds in their mission. I'm sure one will have a detailed CoC targeting inclusivity and preventing anybody from being offended about anything and the other will probably just get on with the job.

          Free Software is an interesting target for this sort of "woke" behavior, particularly because development and participation can be done in almost complete anonymity. Nobody knows about your "gender identity", your race, your sex, your nationality, your policitcal affliliations, etc. unless you decide to raise them as an issue.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by dskoll ( 99328 )

            Any organization needs money, and corporate donations are unlikely to flow to a fuck the snowflakes organization. Therefore, such an organization will have a much harder time raising funds that one that decides not to fuck the snowflakes.

            Free Software is an interesting target for this sort of "woke" behavior, particularly because development and participation can be done in almost complete anonymity.

            Not really. Please name a major free software project (ie, one that is widely used and has multiple co

            • Any organization needs money, and corporate donations are unlikely to flow to a fuck the snowflakes organization. Therefore, such an organization will have a much harder time raising funds that one that decides not to fuck the snowflakes.

              I strongly disagree. What's the point of an organization whose purpose for existing is corrupted by money? Sponsors like Red Hat (example: CentOS) are doing FSF a favor by pulling out.

              Not really. Please name a major free software project (ie, one that is widely used and has multiple contributors) that has had a significant amount of code contributed by someone "almost completely anonymously". I sure wouldn't trust such a project.

              I've never seen an open source project where any contributor had been vetted.
              There is no effective difference between ticking some kind of 'I R Anonymous' box and establishing a random identity (throwaway email account..etc) accepted by others.

        • What is the FSF's mission and accomplishments so far, and RMS being a part of it (after apologizing) is going to degrade what about their vision, exactly? Seems like Free Software is kind of its own juggernaut at this point.

        • Re:The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:25PM (#61265496)

          By that logic, any mob could get anyone fired for any reason they dream up. This is nuts.

        • Re:The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by SharpFang ( 651121 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:43PM (#61265586) Homepage Journal

          That is not a problem caused by RMS. It's a problem caused by that section of population. And yielding to them - letting them have their way - will only encourage them to hijack more entities they can hijack and cripple the ones they can't.

          RMS is not reducing the FSF ability to complete their stated mission. The witch hunters are. And the solution is not to get rid of RMS, but to actively oppose the witch hunters.

        • Re:The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by slack_justyb ( 862874 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:44PM (#61265592)

          This is barely about RMS to some, and more about screwing over a section of the population that is disliked

          Exactly. And the failure for FSF, RMS, or anyone involved on that side to actually address this is why a lot of groups are putting a bit of distance between them and the FSF.

          RMS cannot hold the position effectively without drastically reducing the FSF ability to complete their stated mission

          The FSF is an advocacy group. If there are people who aren't listening, then you are absolutely fucking right that they will fail at their mission of outreach. You do not have outreach if you do not have groups of people listening to you.

          an intentional statement of "fuck the snowflakes" rather than anything about the ability for the FSF to be effective

          And as HanzoSpam has demonstrated, this is absolutely the case. I've heard time and time again people say, "You're going to disrespect the man that (insert whatever) just because of what he thinks?" And the answer is, I've got nothing but respect for the man. I've met him several times at conventions, I've even got his dang book signed by him. And it's on my freaking desk all the time. The dude was effing inspirational for my opinions on FOSS. That said, he's a shit person at leading a diverse group and he's pretty horrible around women in general. And that's not a giant secret, a lot of people know that his gearbox for thinking is rooting in some old ass 1970s era college guy brew-haha thinking. And fine, he's too awkward to understand that he's a pig. Whatever. I'm sure the guy is fine in leading some college aged team back in the 1980s, he's just shit at doing it in the 2020s.

          I went to college during the 1980s, I know what the thinking was in the CSCI halls about women at that time. It wasn't everyone who thought that way, but yeah the "male pig" kind of thinking was rampant and RMS is very much a product straight out of that era. And if he's too awkward to adjust to today, fine. He's still a champ in my mind for the things he's done, but if he's not willing to adjust for today's groups then he just needs to step back and let others lead the charge. There's no shame in that.

          There's a group (not a big one, but goddamn if they ain't vocal as fuck) who just refuses to leave the 1970s/80s/and 90s thinking behind them. We're all pretty smart here. We should all understand the idea of adaptability. And shit like

          Good for him. Let the snowflakes go fuck themselves.

          Shows that people like this guy [slashdot.org] are unable to adapt and want to change the conversation from "what's best for the FSF" to "fuck a bunch of snowflakes". And that, that whole point is why everyone is distancing themselves from FSF, which in the long run will run their ability to advocate into the ground. RMS did a lot of shit, nothing but applause for that. But guy is incapable of running a team now a days and this admission now shows that he has no plans to adapt to today's groups. There's nothing wrong with his things he's accomplished, but he just lacks the skills to run a team effectively with today's groups and based on his lack of skills, the FSF should not put him in a position for which he lacks the skills for. GNOME, KDE, X.org, and so on have every right to associate or not associate with the FSF and if the FSF just wants to double down on someone who won't adapt, then those groups have every right to distance themselves while they watch the FSF go down on the boat they chose to ride down to the bottom of the abyss. There's a lot of better things to do than tip-toe around neckbeards that still carry some antiquated thinking about anything that is a different gender than themselves.

          • Trait agreableness, from Big 5 personality (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @05:35PM (#61265874) Homepage Journal

            Shows that people like this guy [slashdot.org] are unable to adapt and want to change the conversation from "what's best for the FSF" to "fuck a bunch of snowflakes".

            This is a debate between people who are high on the agreeableness scale, and people who are low.

            Low agreeable people are the creatives (also high openness), who go against the grain. They are individuals who generally don't care what other people think, and go off and have new and interesting ideas. They are the artists who move into a run-down part of a city and make art, they are the entrepreneurs, songwriters, and playrights.

            High agreeable people are group-ists: you value is only to the group, your value as an individual is zero, and you can be sacrificed for the good of the group. Marxists, and all the ideologies derived from it, are generally group-ists. If you're not a part of the group, if you don't have the same opinions, then you're a poisonous snake that must be attacked using any means necessary.

            And that, that whole point is why everyone is distancing themselves from FSF, which in the long run will run their ability to advocate into the ground. RMS did a lot of shit, nothing but applause for that.

            [Emphasis mine] Agreeableness is normally distributed, half the nerd population supports RMS and about half want to get rid of him (per community polling, don't have the reference at hand).

            Realize that the other side doesn't hold your opinion not because they're stupid or because they don't understand your point, it's because they're different people. They have different values, they think different things are important, what's obvious to them is the opposite of what's obvious to you.

            But guy is incapable of running a team now a days and this admission now shows that he has no plans to adapt to today's groups.

            The fundamental basis for civilization is that people have rights, have transcendent worth independent of their group affiliation. This basic idea of individual rights lets us set up laws that are unbiased against the agreeableness score.

            That's right. The fundamental basis of civilization is that the agreeableness score doesn't matter in day-to-day operations.

            Without this central idea, that people have transcendent value, you have blood feuds, honor killings, witch hunts, and all the bad parts of communism. Anyone not deemed "part of the group" is a nazi/sex offender/racist, and it's OK to punch them.

            Bollux.

            Ignore his behaviour. RMS is *highly* creative(*), he's run FSF for decades and built it up to a high level, and he's done nothing wrong.

            Get back into civilized behaviour. Allow others to have their own opinions.

            (*) I should mention that there's a test for measuring creative ability (you can find it online and take it), and the median score is zero. Seventy percent of the population scores zero on the creative achievement test, and of the remaining 30 percent 21 percent only score 1 point. True creativity is exceedingly rare, and we shouldn't be casually attacking the highly creative types for no reason.

            • Re:Trait agreableness, from Big 5 personality (Score:4, Interesting)

              by slack_justyb ( 862874 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @07:02PM (#61266288)

              Allow others to have their own opinions.

              He's fine to have opinions. I mean Christ, I've got nothing wrong with him "having opinions". The thing is, he wants to be in a position to "spread his opinions" and so, the acceptability of his opinions is pretty much the fucking point.

              Realize that the other side doesn't hold your opinion not because they're stupid or because they don't understand your point, it's because they're different people.

              I'm NOT saying that anyone is stupid. Being different is fine. But being a leader requires a bit of buy in on your thinking, that's kind of how leadership works. The people listening need to believe what's coming out of your mouth hole in order for that leadership thingy to work. So just so you understand, my issue is NOT "I dislike what RMS thinks ergo he shouldn't be a leader". My issue is "RMS' opinions are not exactly widely accepted ergo he's not exactly the most ideal person for the position of leadership." And more specifically, "RMS' thinking on some subjects have been denounced by a lot of FOSS projects ergo those FOSS projects will be a lot less trusting of RMS in their group which doesn't seem like that's a good thing for the FSF."

              RMS being in the right or wrong. Those FOSS projects being in the right or wrong. NONE OF THAT WITHSTANDING. You have the FSF and a lot of FOSS projects and they are two groups that need to work together and right now one is saying they won't work with the other because of some things. That's not exactly what I would call awesome leadership, but I mean fuck I'm cool to be wrong there. But it does seem that when two groups won't work together going forward, it's fair game to say that perhaps someone in leadership wasn't a good match.

              Whatever their thinking or not being right or wrong, IDGF. One crew has changed, the other hasn't and clearly the lack of change in one or the change in the other has lead us to this. That doesn't require anyone to pass a right or wrong verdict to point out that, that is highly likely not a good thing for it to be where it is right now. If people are not listening to you, more than likely you aren't a very good leader. The right or wrong, the different or homogeneous thinking, or whatever other thing you want to try and turn this into doesn't matter. If people are not listening to you, you are not a good leader. You could have gold for ideas, but if no one listens to them, then your ideas go nowhere.

              True creativity is exceedingly rare, and we shouldn't be casually attacking the highly creative types for no reason

              The guy literally admitted to being unable to act normal around a category that makes up roughly 50% of the people on this planet. If he's like that at his home, cool. He could write a book or something! If he wants to lead people however, and he's got an issue with 50% of this planet. Going to be awfully hard to lead that 50%. No attack, just that's highly questionable as to how effective he's going to be as a leader when 50% of this planet knows that he's got issues not coming off as a male pig to them and he doesn't think it's his responsibility to adapt his behavior. I'm not passing judgement on if he should or shouldn't adapt, I'm just saying going to make that role of leader harder to do.

              • Simply wrong (Score:4, Interesting)

                by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @07:13PM (#61266328) Homepage Journal

                Allow others to have their own opinions.

                The thing is, he wants to be in a position to "spread his opinions" and so...

                Yes, exactly.

                Do not, do NOT prevent others from speaking. That's what you're tying to do, and it's wrong.

                You don't like him, that's fine. You disagree with him, that's fine also. You don't want to interact with him? That's fine as well.

                But DON'T curtail his ability to interact with others.

                It's not your place to judge.

                Cancel culture is simply wrong.

              • Re:Trait agreableness, from Big 5 personality (Score:4, Interesting)

                by ChatHuant ( 801522 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @08:59PM (#61266764)

                He's fine to have opinions. I mean Christ, I've got nothing wrong with him "having opinions".

                I must say, that's very broad-minded of you. I'm sure some of your best friends are people with opinions too!

                The thing is, he wants to be in a position to "spread his opinions" and so, the acceptability of his opinions is pretty much the fucking point.

                Yes, this kind of thing shouldn't be tolerated. I mean, we're upstanding, civilized people - we can't have this kind of degeneracy among us. Those people can have whatever opinions they want, as long as they don't air them about and push them in our faces. What, are we going to have "opinion pride" parades next? There really should be some kind of law against this kind of thing - we could call it "don't ask, don't tell".

                Jokes aside - is it only me who sees how the whole progressive movement becomes more and more like a real life illustration of "Animal Farm"?

        • Re:The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Tailhook ( 98486 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @05:57PM (#61265988)

          screwing over a section of the population that is disliked

          More like screwing over privileged crybullies that claim to represent a "section" of something.

          anything about the ability for the FSF to be effective

          Kowtowing to pressure groups breeds more pressure groups until we can't have anything. The problem with you is so far you haven't been on the shit end of the stick yet. FSF is trying to save you from that fate; you're just too myopic to appreciate it.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by nagora ( 177841 )

          I honestly cannot say... but I know he cannot effectively lead anymore as a result of it.

          Well, the issue here is honesty. The accusations are bullshit and he is showing leadership by not buckling to them.

          The choice to keep him in place is a intentional statement of "we don't give in to blackmail".

        • Re:The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Cederic ( 9623 ) on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @03:53AM (#61267542) Journal

          This is barely about RMS to some, and more about screwing over a section of the population that is disliked.

          As a member of that socially awkward section of the population I find I agree with you.

          Fail to parrot the right mantras (which change day by day), fail to kneel to the current gods of probity, accidentally genuflect in the wrong direction and it's cancellation for you!

          No space for people that think differently, that work with logic and rationale, and that aren't relentlessly seeking social acceptance irrespective of its stances.

    • The RMS "apology" sounds more like he is saying, ~~ it's not my problem, Get over it. ~~

      Is he wrong?

    • It's not his problem (Score:5, Informative)

      by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:02PM (#61265400)

      RMS did nothing wrong, so a statement rather than an apology is in order.

      All too often these days people accuse someone of a misdeed when they did nothing. Far too often the target apologizes for causing offense, even when they did nothing wrong. It's time for people that did nothing wrong to stop apologizing to these jackals that travel in packs seeking to bring innocent targets down.

      • Re:It's not his problem (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:42PM (#61265580) Homepage Journal

        The accusation against RMS includes "a history of mistreating women and making them feel uncomfortable, unsafe, and unwelcome."

        So, that would be an accusation of specific actions taken by RMS which were wrong. I personally am not in a position to know if they are true.

        HOWEVER....

        At the risk of having my own head bitten off for not being liberal enough, I will point out that "making someone feel" uncomfortable, unsafe, or unwelcome is an accusation that lacks substance. One can control one's own actions, but one CANNOT control someone else's feelings. People might feel uncomfortable without reason. People might feel unsafe when there is no danger at all. People might feel these things even though the other person did nothing wrong nor anything that would make "a reasonable person" feel this way. For example, if a professional body-builder walks down the street, his hulking muscles might make someone feel unsafe. But that does not mean the body-builder did anything wrong.

        The "mistreatment" might have more substance, if we have confirmed incidences of behavior that is actually illegal. I don't know the weight of evidence here, but it seems like it would be much more the focus of the complaints if it was strong and compelling.

        Instead the focus of the complaints seems to be about his speculation about what might have happened long ago, statements of his own opinions on downs syndrome, and hateful transphobic language written into his guidance policies for technical documentation.

        The first and last of those three are bogus. There is nothing wrong with his speculation of what might have happened long ago (so long as one does not alter his words and change the meaning of what he actually said), and the transphobia accusation is utter bunk. It is just another example of an extreme liberal with an axe to grind complaining because his guidance on how to write technical document doesn't further their agenda enough. Obsessing over these two things really weakens the whole argument, because both are obvious mischaracterization and bogus.

        If we are going to demonize someone, and expect to be believed and respected, then we should not pad our accusations with fluff. It just weakens the whole case. He said some hurtful things about Downs Syndrome and should apologize for that. If we have evidence of mistreatment of women (or of ANYONE), then we should take appropriate legal action against him, or just drop it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by enigma32 ( 128601 )

      ... he is saying, ~~ it's not my problem, Get over it. ~~

      Yup. Heaven forbid people have different communication styles.

      Understanding and acceptance goes both ways. The mob that's against him is full of people that seem to forget that when it's convenient for them.

    • Re:The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @05:41PM (#61265902) Homepage Journal

      Funny, it didn't sound like that to me. It seems like a pretty accurate self-assessment, but again tone deaf -- it's almost like RMS and neurotypicals are speaking a different language -- or at least communicating in radically different modes.

      Most normal people expect you to address their feelings first and foremost. This isn't just people on one side of the political spectrum or the other, it's across the board. The average person isn't very good at handling details or wading through context, which of course RMS puts first. If you communicate this way, you lose your audience, even though it's logical to start from facts and context and proceed to the conclusion, it's more *effective* to start at the conclusion and work your way back:

      it was tone-deaf that I didn't acknowledge as context the injustice that Epstein did to women or the pain that caused.

      Even that sentence needs to be restructured, he needed to start with the end, something like this:

      I failed to acknowledge the injustice that Epstein did to women or the pain that caused and for that failure I am sorry.

      Trying to put things in a logical order, to declare your variables before you use them, that sounds evasive to normal people.

    • Re:The RMS "apology" sounds more like... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rtb61 ( 674572 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @06:49PM (#61266246) Homepage

      Actually, LIAR, he is saying it is his problem and he is dealing with it as best as he can. Political correctness demands those on the autism spectrum can not be actively, violently, socially and economically discriminated against, destroyed in human social terms, actively mass attacked publicly humiliated and ostracised because of genetics (something out of their control).

      Why, are they still attacked because the art class morons are insanely jealous of the intellect of those on the autism spectrum and demand they have not voice, their intellect enslaved for a pittance, that they are ridiculed and that ridicule celebrated publicly in all forms of media controlled by the art class morons.

      Hey I am on that spectrum FUCKER and you know what I did not miss the social clues, I just saw them as ludicrous, entirely artificial, manipulated by psychopaths and narcissists and built around peer pressure bullying. I am a geek not a nerd so I fought back, refused to bow to bullshit and as I grow older refuse to live in denial to serve the ego of idiot art class morons and the hordes of failed jock strap douche bags and their idiot cheer leaders.

      Nobody is more discriminated against than geeks and nerds (those on the autism spectrum) and this abuse is still celebrated and cheered on in all forms of media (add in colour and it is worse, add in economic class and it is worse yet again, on top of all the rest). This to favour art class morons and jock strap douche bags because they are so much more valuable to society than intellect (the reality petty jealously from high school still in the most political incorrect and biased and prejudiced manner expressed in adult life).

      Did I do that https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] no you did you filthy fuckers and you still celebrate it to this day and continue to do so because jealously and ego. The desire of the stupid to ridicule the smart.

    • Naw, he's saying he's autistic without coming out and saying he's autistic.

  • RMS is a jerk... (Score:4, Informative)

    by HotNeedleOfInquiry ( 598897 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:03PM (#61265406)
    But he's our jerk.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      Many of us slashdotters have Asperger tendencies to say what we think and/or not vet our ideas sufficiently before we utter them. We are more likely to cut a break for RMS types.

      Even outside of tech, it's not a small movement, as the popularity of Trump's "anti-PC" stance shows. Maybe we shouldn't just accept all offensive speech, but also not do the extreme opposite and fire everybody. Allow them a chance to redeem themselves with apologies and counseling. Save real punishment for real crimes.

      • Maybe we shouldn't just accept all offensive speech, but also not do the extreme opposite and fire everybody.

        That's crazy talk. We should all just rabidly attack people we disagree with until they can't live normal lives anymore. Because how dare they have a different opinion.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by phantomfive ( 622387 )

      It's hard to say who is more of a jerk: him, or the people who are trying to make him look bad, worse than he is.

      RMS attempts to be honest and sincere, which is something real and rare.

    • I don't even think he's a jerk necessarily. He's pretty damn weird though. Look at his rider for some pretty funny examples [kottke.org] of pure weirdness. There's also the time he supposedly ate something off of his foot [youtube.com] as well. Weird no matter what happened there.

      He's certainly strongly opinionated, particularly when it comes to FOSS, but I've never felt that he was trying to be a jerk about it. Frankly for someone who's got some views that are pretty far from the midpoint he's not much of a dick about it to other

  • Has anyone considered that (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ttspttsp ( 7600944 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:05PM (#61265414)
    RMS may be on the autism spectrum?
    • In that case, maybe having something like this [youtu.be] on hand would help.

    • RMS may be on the autism spectrum?

      Possibly, I suspect that what's he's trying to imply in his letter. Though there's a difference between forgiving someone's inappropriate behaviour and helping them to improve, and giving someone license to misbehave because they may be on the spectrum.

  • Power Politics (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Kunedog ( 1033226 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:07PM (#61265426)
    Never apologize to people who never had any intention of accepting it. SJWs only demand apologies to use them against their targets as an admission of guilt.

  • RMS is an asshole, he's embarrassing, he's dangerously un-self-aware, but he is 100% right about free software.
    He named it, he articulated all of the important ideas, and he started the whole movement.
    The idea of forcing him out of the FSF is ludicrous.

  • Do you want an apology for something he didn't do? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by J. T. MacLeod ( 111094 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:20PM (#61265480)

    He apologizes for things he did, knowingly and unknowingly.

    He doesn't apologize for things that he did not do, regardless of the fact that he was accused of them.

  • Good (Score:5, Informative)

    by ForTheVeryLastTime ( 1777610 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:26PM (#61265498)
    He has nothing to apologize for (in this particular instance).

    Kudos to the FSF for not bending the knee when faced with a smear campaign run by ideologically possessed bad actors.

  • Let's burn THEM ALL you cynical! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by franzrogar ( 3986783 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @04:53PM (#61265644)

    Let's burn the memory and statues of Gandhi, because he was a pederast who slept with his niece to "resist the temptation".

    Let's burn the memory and statues of Mother Theresa of Calcutta, because she was a masochist who denied any painkiller to her patients because "pain puts to closer to God".

    Let's burn the memory and statues of Nelson Mandela, because he was a terrorist who murder innocent people.

    ETC.

    If not, then FSF should publicly apologize!

  • Inclusion includes including people with autism (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, 2021 @05:03PM (#61265694)
    [Posting as AC, for the privacy of my family]

    As the father of an autistic son, and having spent plenty of time with autistic people, and having met Stallman on a number of occasions, I believe he very clearly exhibits the majority of the characteristics of someone fairly far along the autism spectrum. Not reading normally obvious social cues, not understanding when you are making someone uncomfortable and not having a filter for vocalizing thoughts that are likely to upset others are all attributes that I've seem firsthand from RMS, as well as from many of the kids at my son's school. People on the autism spectrum don't just come over as insensitive, they are in many ways genuinely "insensitive" to the social signals that most people expect others to send and receive. While it's possible for autistic people to learn to pick up on these signals, it's hard for them, even if they start young. To expect RMS to behave otherwise is probably unrealistic.

    So, if one accepts that RMS is towards the end of the spectrum, the real question is what is his place in the FSF? He's an insensitive clod who frequently and consistently puts his foot in his mouth and doesn't spontaneously apologies when he upsets people. He's also the founder and driving force for many years, with a wealth of knowledge and insight. I don't know what the right answer is, but I do think that if your goal is to build a fully inclusive organization, then it needs to be inclusive towards people with autism as well.

    • Just yesterday I was reading a Reddit thread (I know, I know), where people were "cancelling" someone who had privately admitted to voting against gay marriage. This person is otherwise apparently a great person, but the fact that they admitted to holding one non-PC opinion was enough to damn them.

      The situation with RMS is similar: The man has done great things. The fact that he is socially awkward, however, is enough to send the hyenas after him.

      Are people really so perfect? No single flaw in character

  • This gives a scale against which everyone can form their own opinion.

    I no longer recommend this site, but there's plenty of good work from long ago in its archives.

    https://ethicsalarms.com/rule-... [ethicsalarms.com]

  • Take Responsibility -- Me, I (Score:3)

    by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 ) on Monday April 12, 2021 @07:29PM (#61266384) Journal

    This, in the summary, caught my eye:

    "I've learned something from this about how to be kind to people who have been hurt [...]"

    Okay, here's the change:

    "I've learned something from this about how to be kind to people I have hurt [...]"

    It's a small but important change.

    Years ago, I inadvertently insulted somebody. I certainly didn't mean to. I was trying to be funny and it failed miserably. I like the person that I insulted.

    A big step was to admit that I was sorry that I insulted him. Not that I was sorry that he misinterpreted what I meant. Not that I was sorry that he was insulted. I was sorry that I insulted him.

    I kept holding on to those other two things--I didn't really mean to do anything bad, it just kind of happened. It's his fault for misinterpreting. I'm not the bad guy here. It's not my fault.

    But I was the bad guy. It was my fault. Sure, maybe I didn't mean to, but I insulted him. It wasn't something that "just happened." It wasn't his fault for misinterpreting what I said. It was me. I did it. And I needed to acknowledge that it was my actions that caused the problem.

    Because until you acknowledge that you can hurt people, you can't really understand the need to stop doing it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by defovil901 ( 7969846 )
      What the fuck? He literally said "Sometimes I lost my temper because I didn't have the social skills to avoid it," Stallman adds. "Some people could cope with this; others were hurt. I apologize to each of them. Please direct your criticism at me, not at the Free Software Foundation."

      He literally is acknowledging that he hurt others and apologized. What is wrong with people? All of the sudden everyone is a saint and requires everyone else to be one too. I hate to break it to everyone: but you are not perfe

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