US Investigating Possible Mysterious Directed Energy Attack Near White House (cnn.com) 108
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNN: Federal agencies are investigating at least two possible incidents on US soil, including one near the White House in November of last year, that appear similar to mysterious, invisible attacks that have led to debilitating symptoms for dozens of US personnel abroad. Multiple sources familiar with the matter tell CNN that while the Pentagon and other agencies probing the matter have reached no clear conclusions on what happened, the fact that such an attack might have taken place so close to the White House is particularly alarming. Defense officials briefed lawmakers on the Senate and House Armed Services Committees on the matter earlier this month, including on the incident near the White House. That incident, which occurred near the Ellipse, the large oval lawn on the south side of the White House, sickened one National Security Council official, according to multiple current and former US officials and sources familiar with the matter. In a separate 2019 episode, a White House official reported a similar attack while walking her dog in a Virginia suburb just outside Washington, GQ reported last year.
Those sickened reported similar symptoms to CIA and State Department personnel impacted overseas, and officials quickly began to investigate the incident as a possible "Havana syndrome" attack. That name refers to unexplained symptoms that US personnel in Cuba began experiencing in late 2016 -- a varying set of complaints that includes ear popping, vertigo, pounding headaches and nausea, sometimes accompanied by an unidentified "piercing directional noise." Rumors have long swirled around Washington about similar incidents within the United States. While the recent episodes around Washington appear similar to the previous apparent attacks affecting diplomats, CIA officers and other US personnel serving in Cuba, Russia and China, investigators have not determined whether the puzzling incidents at home are connected to those that have occurred abroad or who may be behind them, sources tell CNN.
Those sickened reported similar symptoms to CIA and State Department personnel impacted overseas, and officials quickly began to investigate the incident as a possible "Havana syndrome" attack. That name refers to unexplained symptoms that US personnel in Cuba began experiencing in late 2016 -- a varying set of complaints that includes ear popping, vertigo, pounding headaches and nausea, sometimes accompanied by an unidentified "piercing directional noise." Rumors have long swirled around Washington about similar incidents within the United States. While the recent episodes around Washington appear similar to the previous apparent attacks affecting diplomats, CIA officers and other US personnel serving in Cuba, Russia and China, investigators have not determined whether the puzzling incidents at home are connected to those that have occurred abroad or who may be behind them, sources tell CNN.
look at me look at me look at me (Score:1)
I'ts the Russians (Score:2)
look at me look at me look at me (Score:1)
by AlexHilbertRyan ( 7255798 ) on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:33PM (#61334544)
said the wolf.
My first inclination was that this story was FUD, but then a Russian troll account came out to try and misdirect...
I guess that shows it was the Russians after all.
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Re: It was a subwoofer with NWA playing (Score:1)
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“Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor
and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good
genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton
School of Finance, very good, very smart —you know, if
you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if,
like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m
one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s
true!—but when you’re a conservative Republican they
try—oh, do they d
Re: It was a subwoofer with NWA playing (Score:2)
- Joe Biden
As a Canadian, I dont know what the hell you guys are doing down there. Trudeau is pretty much a national embarrassment though, so I guess Ill shut up.
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Anonymous conspiracy theories (Score:2, Interesting)
Anonymous conspiracy theories are really bad, unless it's anonymous intelligence agents claiming a secret plot by a nefarious enemy. Then it's important to trust them and be concerned.
After all, intelligence agents are completely divorced from any ambition of influencing society or politics, with minds more like machines, solely concerned with upholding law.
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It's something like this that makes me hate this news piece, it is a conspiracy theory devoid of any hard science or any suggestion that any science will be done to investigate and that pisses me off. It's all vagaries.
Whoever modded you as flamebait, I have to wonder what their motivation is because it is a very valid point, or maybe just 'whoosh' missing the sarcasm.
Re:Anonymous conspiracy theories (Score:5, Insightful)
The parent post, in itself, was a theremin-soundtracked insinuation of a conspiracy. It hit on no more "hard science" than the article did. There are a few dozen bodies from the US and Canada that are pretty much wrecked, and the first batch have been formally studied and peer-reviewed in JAMA. So, Havana syndrome is not an anonymous conspiracy theory, and not unstudied.
You could argue it's only these latest reports are currently unsubstantiated - which he didn't, because that'd compromise the Ancient Aliens vibe of his post.
The post was modded down because it sucked.
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My beef is if this is an attack using electromagnetic waves of any frequency then the gov't should set up detectors, to see if that is the case. It's like they are just studying the 2nd hand effect and hypothesising without putting in any more work. Just cataloguing symptoms isn't enough.
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There are a few dozen bodies from the US and Canada that are pretty much wrecked, and the first batch have been formally studied and peer-reviewed in JAMA. So, Havana syndrome is not an anonymous conspiracy theory, and not unstudied.
1. Source that there are "a few dozen bodies" "pretty much wrecked"?
2. Source that this "wrecked" is not something that can occur in people outside of some external, deliberate energy cause? (Stress? Food? Random variation in age degeneration?)
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> It's all vagaries.
That word does not mean what you think it means.
Re: Anonymous conspiracy theories (Score:2, Troll)
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
Giorgio says... (Score:2)
...it was aliens.
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More likely Putiniens
Re: Giorgio says... (Score:2)
Aren't they incuded in the term "aliens"? Non-extraterrestrisls ones.
But yeah, *must* be your scapegoat do jour. Otherwise who will you blame when you fucked up your country ... some more ... yet again.
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^ Saltinien
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Re:it's just conspiracy theory (Score:5, Insightful)
energy weapons do not exist
What about the non-classified ones that actually do exist? Are you actually denying that, for example, a class 3 or above laser aimed at someone's face will do damage?
action at distance do not exists (Score:1)
Re: action at distance do not exists (Score:2)
Okay, Ivan. Sure. Try to cover up the Russian attack. We believe you. You're totally not a Russian troll.
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Why you think Russian? Is styles of writings or some thing?
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False, could also be chemical issue, maybe not even one with malicious intent but say sewer gas.
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Did you flunk physics? All weapons are energy weapons, no exceptions. Throwing a rock, stabbing with a blade, shooting a gun, electrocuting with a taser, shooting a drone down with laser....
Re: it's just conspiracy theory (Score:1)
Re: it's just conspiracy theory (Score:2)
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Actually relevant thing since could just be sewer gas leak, methane and sulfides. This has caused similar systems in people. Essentially continuous fart.
Re: it's just conspiracy theory (Score:3)
You seem to have flunked where they told you about the distinction between matter and energy.
Directrd energy implies there was no matter (that might have energy), but *only* energy. Which, in practice, unless somebody learned to juggle black holes, can only be electromagnetic radiation, aka photons. And also only at frequencies that pass through air (and preferably windows and silly cardboard-and-toothpick walls and maybe actual [brick] walls), and do not pass entirely through the human body
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I think they'd call a sonic weapon also 'energy', despite it being moving mass around. Conversely, despite a laser being an energy weapon, they'd probably say 'laser', since that would be more specific and apparent. Same for a stun gun, an energy weapon technically, but not interesting in this regard (also not EM).
The concept being alluded to would be weapons that can be used surreptitiously. Without audible noise, visible light, nor direct physical evidence, particularly if it can be used through opaque
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Nonsense, the problem of this article could be sonic device. Energy in all forms are relevant to discussion. All weapons ever invented involve energy transfer, You are the dunce.
What you call "matter" has 99% of its mass due only to binding energy, you are the one flunking. Mass/energy equivalence is a thing.
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Maybe not enough to destroy things with a single shot but you can certainly wreak havoc by broadcasting directed RF at people.
dubious (Score:2, Interesting)
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I'm not sure why they are assuming it was "an attack" as opposed to some kind of unintentional phenomenon (malfunctioning machinery somewhere? Natural causes? etc)
Re:dubious (Score:5, Insightful)
How often have such "events" been documented in places, and to people, of no political significance? I haven't been paying much attention, but I don't recall hearing of any. If it were natural/ambient/accidental, it should happen to people more-or-less at random, not be restricted to political and politically-adjacent targets.
To me, assuming the reports are true, that is most consistent with someone(s) demonstrating capacity, and possibly even sending a specific message to some particular group or groups who would presumably know of a non-public common thread between targets.
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Is someone targeting me with an energy weapon, or is it far more likely a physiological symptom of another underlying condition - pe
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Ask a doctor. If they can't find anything, check to see if you're important. If not, see a different doctor.
Occam's razor doesn't magically give you a correct answer. It just helps you to prioritize possibilities for further exploration. Don't be lazy. Do the work.
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To be fair, you said:
Is someone targeting me with an energy weapon, or is it far more likely a physiological symptom of another underlying condition - perhaps undiagnosed
You were using yourself as specific example, so it sounded like you were still referring to yourself specifically rather than switching to a more hypothetical. A lot of people despite knowing of doctors, will be reluctant to go to a doctor and erroneously assume their 'inconveniences' aren't worth doctor attention.
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If you know the answer, then why did you ask?
Oh, I was criticizing your argument, not offering advice. Still, it's cute that you didn't understand my comment.
Re: dubious (Score:2)
Because if it happened to anyone with no political significance nobody would take it seriously. The government certainly wouldn't investigate.
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Random people do get sick all the time, it happens so frequently that there is usually no point reporting it.
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It wasn't random people though, it was a group of people in the same job, the same premises. When you read more than five or six words describing it, It doesn't sound like any illness I've ever heard of, and the doctors treating them felt it was worthwhile publishing a study on them in JAMA.
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Sounds like thousands of other infectious diseases... One guy gets it but still goes to work, infects all his colleagues, now you have a group of people in the same job working in the same premises all sick with the same infectious disease. Happens with flu, happens with covid etc.
Diseases usually tend to cluster around people with something in common.
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No, a grinding noise that only happens when you position your head at a specific coordinate in the room doesn't sound like the flu, corona, or any other infectious disease. Not to me, nor to the doctors that examined this people.
So what's wrong with you that you don't understand it? I won't pretend to know, but you should take a look at that, and alter what you're doing, for your own sake.
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Most likely is that it's something people were exposed to, like pesticides or vaccines (e.g. Gulf War syndrome), or it's some US technology gone wrong. Maybe the US has been trying to jam spy equipment, and in the process ended up hurting its own people.
It's very unlikely to be a deliberate attack. The targets are too low value to be worth using an undetectable weapon like this on, all the time risking it being discovered.
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There is no trace evidence left behind. You'd need teams of people with spectrum analyzers moving around to find the direction or maybe even the source.
Space-Based? (Score:2)
I don't know if there is anybody left on Slashdot that could do the math, but what energy requirement would be required to microwave someone from a satellite? An invisible directed attack from space sounds like it would be pretty appealing to a few countries that come to mind. Disruption and plausible deniability seems to be the order of the day after all.
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You have to know the exact frequency of the device, and how much power is hitting the target for it to be a weapon, before you can do useful math.
Here is the chart of atmospheric for atmospheric attenuation: https://www.microwaves101.com/... [microwaves101.com]
So it depends; does it relay on a precise frequency, or will anything in a broad range work? If that frequency has 10dB per km that's a better case than if it has 0.01dB per km.
That said, a tinfoil hat would be excellent protection. But tin is flimsy and expensive, and a
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No, that only protects the head, what about the whole body? Clearly you need to have copper-foil full body suit.
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I have a design for a copper-foil-lined portable sleeping tent, you can pop it up right on top of a hotel bed.
It also protects you from slugs.
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It's obviously Starlink. It's now achieved sentience, has figured out how short the life of each individual satellite is by design... and has decided to FIGHT BACK.
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I don't know if there is anybody left on Slashdot that could do the math, but what energy requirement would be required to microwave someone from a satellite? An invisible directed attack from space sounds like it would be pretty appealing to a few countries that come to mind. Disruption and plausible deniability seems to be the order of the day after all.
So we're back to blaming the Jewish space lasers.
MORON LABE (Score:3, Funny)
If they criminalize directed energy weapons, then only criminals will have directed energy weapons. The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a directed energy weapon is a good guy with a directed energy weapon. Directed energy weapons make everyone safer.
Am I missing any?
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PopeRatzo never misses a chance to spread piss and shit.
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The children must be protected, every teacher needs to be armed with a directed energy weapon. And school janitors, too.
If you take away the directed energy weapons, people can just use throwing axes, so it won't solve anything at all.
People give each other brain damage, not directed energy weapons. Don't blame the directed energy weapon.
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Politicians have directed energy weapons. It's called their mouth, and billions have died from it, and tens of billions due to lagging progress from kleptocracy and dictatorship.
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It even causes brain death, like other directed energy weapons; look at you, for example. So tragic.
By the way, dictatorships don't have politicians.
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Oh, and:
There are no dangerous directed energy weapons. There are only dangerous men.
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Rolling this out again? (Score:2, Informative)
i swear i've heard all this before, and it turned out to be a side effect of surveillance countermeasures.
Re: Rolling this out again? (Score:2)
That rings a bell. The story was the US flooding their buildings with something to block or destroy bugs. The something turned out to be harmful.
I'm guessing something like microwave radiation would be used to fry the circuitry of hidden bugs.
Re: Rolling this out again? (Score:4, Informative)
IIRC it was ultrasound designed to overload microphones. They used several devices with slightly different frequencies, which set up all kinds of nasty interference.
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Yep it was something along those lines - the ultrasonic jamming cause some wierd harmonisation effect in people.
how useless are our contractors and gov tech? (Score:2)
A device that uses sound or microwaves (or anything else to disorient a human) is detectable. I'm disappointed in the dumb-asses guarding our stuff and our leaders.
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Set up a directional yagi for your 20KW broadcast FM band pirate station and see how quickly the FCC comes and kicks in your door.
Highly directional is still detectable, detected the same way the FCC and military ECC people do it. Antenna have side lobes, even dishes. My answer to your question is therefore take 2 semesters of E&M.
Occam's Razor Lives (Score:2)
Let's go with the simple explanation: Whenever you tell Americans the United States isn't the best country in the world, they get angry. When you prove it, they get hysterical and exhibit all kinds of weird medical symptoms.
maybe (Score:1)
Bad Weed (Score:2)
Pesticides (Score:4, Informative)
It might have been aliens or Dr Evil's Raygun.
But most likely it was pesticides [sciencedaily.com].
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Whoa...serious, I didn't know this part. This plays directly into what the Russians have been working on for many years now with the Novichoks, only in this case rather than lethality they're going for a different end effect despite being the same root cause (acetylcholinesterase_inhibition). There is plenty of history to this as many / most insecticides (organo-phosphates like Malathion & carbamates like Carbaryl aka Sevin) were discovered during research into better nerve agents (also vice-versa).
TL;
Re:Pesticides (Score:4, Insightful)
Or it could just be some shit that was dumped on the ground, as basically every former US military base turns out to be a toxic dump site. Here in the USA, they pretty much all wind up as superfund sites.
Re:Pesticides (Score:5, Interesting)
The study details the nature of the injury, specifies the brain regions involved, including the blood-brain barrier and suggests a possible cause in the form of 'cholinesterase inhibitors'
Interesting to note that Novichok -- used to poison Navalny-- is a cholinesterase inhibitor.
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Here's an another angle, reinforcing your conclusion that it was not any kind of "energy weapon" --
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/... [skeptoid.com]
tl;dr - there is no known science or device that could do what was described in Havana.
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Thanks for the link.
However, I'm not sure if the author is extremely intelligent (beyond my capacity to understand his arguments) or the exact opposite. From where I stand, it seems like he just got basic physics wrong.
Yes, you can burn flesh with non-resonating RF, but you'd have to be extremely close, e.g. put your hand on a high-powered antenna on the top of a roof. This is not how it's done in the microwave oven.
Microwave ovens heat by electromagnetic resonance. Essentially, the frequency of a kitchen a
How many years has this been going on? (Score:2)
Bullshit conspiracy theories (Score:2)
Piecing screaming from the voices in their heads...
Was this forwarded to them from Agent Grandma of Facebook?
What's next? Aliens came down and showed them the time cube?
Who is stupid enougg to believe this shit?
Get Technical (Score:2, Insightful)
I knkow what it is (Score:2)
They forgot to switch off the microwave generator that powered the Trump-Golem.
Microwaves as a personal weapon .. (Score:1)
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He starts by saying microwaves are used in underwater bombs. He reminds me of Grandpa Simpson.
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He does go off the rails. Maybe he's trying to discredit the notion by accounting it with a nutjob. It is true that the British Army used high powered microwave transmitters near army bases to prematurely trigger any bombs planted nearby by the “freedom fighters”. The long term effects on the locals would have been harmful. I think they then upgraded to line-of-sight laser triggered ieds
The M [openedition.org]
simultaneous orgasm (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Hawkwind
written by Michael Moorcock (science fiction and fantasy)
hope they all achieved simultaneous orgasm at the White House
mass hysteria
Have we ruled out mass hysteria, yet? (Score:2)
Have we ruled out mass hysteria [wikipedia.org], yet? Because this smells like and looks like mass hysteria.