Some Colleges Are Offering Credit for Playing Videogames (msn.com) 82
CalMatters writes:
At least six Cal State campuses and nearly all of the University of California campuses have created esports programs since 2015, in which students host and compete in live tournaments, sometimes funded by corporate sponsors. Both Cal State Dominguez Hills and UC Irvine offer certificates in esports, which means students can earn credit for, yes, playing video games.
Educators who support the trend point to the jobs available in gaming and other forms of digital media, while students say esports clubs and classes have given them another way to connect virtually during the pandemic. "Higher ed needs to evolve or die," said Dina Ibrahim, the academic advisor of the SF State esports athletic club and a professor of broadcast journalism. "We need to be teaching students relevant skills, that's going to get them jobs in a rapidly changing landscape...." Ibrahim shared the syllabus for her live stream broadcasting class, which she created after she noticed the effects esports and gaming were having on the field of digital media. In the course, students learn how to market a brand, monetize it, and develop live streamed events using Twitch — an entertainment site mainly aimed at gamers — and other platforms. For their final project, they help organize and market a live-streamed tournament featuring games like Overwatch, Valorant and League of Legends. "What I wanted to do was just provide a venue for students who are doing it anyway, to get credit," said Ibrahim. "And also not just focusing on the gaming community; it's really gaming, plus content creation."
Those skills could help students land their first media jobs, said Mark "Garvey" Candella, director of student and education programs for Twitch... "All the skills that you're learning and using while you participate in gaming and esports are highly transferable and valuable skills in emerging new and digital media," said Candella, who has helped universities establish esports curriculum that uses gaming as a vehicle to teach branding, management and hardware and software knowledge. At Cal State Dominguez Hills, esports academic advisor Ruben Caputo says he's seen 37 students obtain internships based on their work in the program this past year alone... Like other collegiate esports programs, the one at Dominguez Hills started as an informal student club and is now a thriving organization that has obtained sponsorships with companies such as Microsoft and Level Up Esports Apparel. The university is building a new $750,000 esports lab in the campus library, according to the student-run newspaper, The Bulletin. It will be divided into three sections: a classroom, an incubator and a competition area with rows of PCs...
More than 170 schools across the country have varsity esports teams, according to the National Association of Collegiate Esports, but the number with academic programs is much smaller — and students and professors involved in them say they still encounter skepticism from colleagues who see gaming as just a mind-numbing hobby. At UC Irvine, the first California college to pioneer an esports program, students can earn a continuing education certificate but there are no plans to develop a major in the field, said assistant director Kathy Chiang.
"We don't think that there's enough content for that," she said...
Ibrahim argues that gaming "is a huge, profit-churning component of the entertainment industry that can no longer be ignored," adding that gaming students "are getting skills that are going to prime you to work in a very significant industry that's only growing post pandemic."
Educators who support the trend point to the jobs available in gaming and other forms of digital media, while students say esports clubs and classes have given them another way to connect virtually during the pandemic. "Higher ed needs to evolve or die," said Dina Ibrahim, the academic advisor of the SF State esports athletic club and a professor of broadcast journalism. "We need to be teaching students relevant skills, that's going to get them jobs in a rapidly changing landscape...." Ibrahim shared the syllabus for her live stream broadcasting class, which she created after she noticed the effects esports and gaming were having on the field of digital media. In the course, students learn how to market a brand, monetize it, and develop live streamed events using Twitch — an entertainment site mainly aimed at gamers — and other platforms. For their final project, they help organize and market a live-streamed tournament featuring games like Overwatch, Valorant and League of Legends. "What I wanted to do was just provide a venue for students who are doing it anyway, to get credit," said Ibrahim. "And also not just focusing on the gaming community; it's really gaming, plus content creation."
Those skills could help students land their first media jobs, said Mark "Garvey" Candella, director of student and education programs for Twitch... "All the skills that you're learning and using while you participate in gaming and esports are highly transferable and valuable skills in emerging new and digital media," said Candella, who has helped universities establish esports curriculum that uses gaming as a vehicle to teach branding, management and hardware and software knowledge. At Cal State Dominguez Hills, esports academic advisor Ruben Caputo says he's seen 37 students obtain internships based on their work in the program this past year alone... Like other collegiate esports programs, the one at Dominguez Hills started as an informal student club and is now a thriving organization that has obtained sponsorships with companies such as Microsoft and Level Up Esports Apparel. The university is building a new $750,000 esports lab in the campus library, according to the student-run newspaper, The Bulletin. It will be divided into three sections: a classroom, an incubator and a competition area with rows of PCs...
More than 170 schools across the country have varsity esports teams, according to the National Association of Collegiate Esports, but the number with academic programs is much smaller — and students and professors involved in them say they still encounter skepticism from colleagues who see gaming as just a mind-numbing hobby. At UC Irvine, the first California college to pioneer an esports program, students can earn a continuing education certificate but there are no plans to develop a major in the field, said assistant director Kathy Chiang.
"We don't think that there's enough content for that," she said...
Ibrahim argues that gaming "is a huge, profit-churning component of the entertainment industry that can no longer be ignored," adding that gaming students "are getting skills that are going to prime you to work in a very significant industry that's only growing post pandemic."
Not that different (Score:5, Insightful)
I would think it depends on the degree (Score:2)
Re: I would think it depends on the degree (Score:3)
Well the ugly secret behind the main state universities is that its not a 120 credit finish line. The running joke around here is that its a 5yr plan. Private schools are able to compete rather heavily because of this. The major state universities will throw in so many unrelated requirements and pre-req them to other subjects thats its impossible to complete in 4yrs without also paying extra for summer terms. It is not uncommon to see people graduate eith 133+ credit hours just in order to meet their requir
Re: I would think it depends on the degree (Score:1)
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Just about anyone can get credits towards a degree with a number of "gym" classes which are often 1 credit hour courses. The college I went to allowed up to 4 credit hours in basic kinesiology courses to count towards our 120 total credits.
Correct answer - falling enrollment demographcis (Score:1)
Colleges are now over the huge millennial wave of college aged persons and are on the downward slope of enrollments.
The number of applicants to SF State is down from 36000 in 2016 to 31000 in 2021 a 20% drop!
Second tier degree programs at second tier universities are fighting for students to take courses to justify the professor pay.
There is no real reason for a degree plan to exist if fewer than one full class of students graduates each year at the undergraduate level.
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Re: Not that different (Score:2)
eSports (Score:5, Interesting)
Ah... the only thing more pointless than sports - eSports. I gather since there's a "National Association of Collegiate Esports" and the school is shelling out a million dollars for a gaming PC lab, that it's going to bring in some money. I guess if that can subsidize someone else's education, maybe it's worth it.
On the other hand, the characterization of the credit course as "gaming, plus content creation" makes it sound like an incubator for yelly YouTube edgelords. Will the normal video production courses not satisfy their needs?
the players get 0 and the NCAA makes it's all (Score:2)
the players get 0 and the NCAA makes it's all
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Re:eSports (Score:4, Insightful)
more pointless than sports
Sports is good as a community and health (physical and mental) thing. It's the million dollar plus professional level of sports that is pointless - other than making people spend money to live vicariously through the efforts of others.
On the other hand, the characterization of the credit course as "gaming, plus content creation" makes it sound like an incubator for yelly YouTube edgelords.
Only just recently were some Slashdot gaming nerds trying to justify how computer games were more complex than chess "because much variables!!!", so maybe they should go with "gaming, plus operations management".
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Sports is good as a community and health (physical and mental) thing.
Except for all the brain damage...
Re: eSports (Score:2)
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That said, professional sports make a lot of people happy while also providing a source of comradery. Far more people love professional (and collegiate) sports than don't, and it brings them great pride and joy.
I share your apparent attitude towards sports, but can't agree that they are pointless.
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eSports are in many ways better than real sports. For example in many sports you have to get lucky with your genes - if you are short you will probably never be a great basketball player, if you can't walk you probably won't be a top football player. With eSports there is a lot more opportunity to compete purely on learned skill.
Motor racing is another example. Formula 1 is boring these days, two or three manufacturers dominate and most races are a procession. The rules are mostly there to make the cars go
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huge profits... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Ibrahim argues that gaming "is a huge, profit-churning component of the entertainment industry that can no longer be ignored," adding that gaming students "are getting skills that are going to prime you to work in a very significant industry that's only growing post pandemic."
You can also make a lot of money dancing on a pole. Does that mean we should have classes on how to be a stripper at our colleges?
Just sayin....
Obligatory The Far Side Comic (Score:4, Funny)
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Ha! I remember that one. Dream jobs indeed.
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You can also make a lot of money dancing on a pole.
No you can't. A small percentage of fit young girls can, but no-one in this group would make a single dollar from it.
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Star Wars Kid was dancing with a pole, seems appropriate for /., and could probably make a small fortune selling an NFT of it now.
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but no-one in this group would make a single dollar from it.
I own 3 strip clubs your insensitive clod!
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Yeah. The whole thing smells fishy. Take this statement of hers:
What I wanted to do was just provide a venue for students who are doing it anyway, to get credit
Yeah, let's ease things up to the point that students don't actually have to do anything differently than what they do on a daily basis. GTFOH.
Go watch TrueUnderDawg Gaming on Youtube (Score:2)
Course work would probably be a damn sign more complex than scrubbing (google the term if you don't get the reference).
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Universities offering game design and production courses is nothing new (at least here in the UK) -
https://www.abertay.ac.uk/cour... [abertay.ac.uk]
That seems a long way from getting credits for playing online games though. I'm pretty sure you don't get credits towards a music degree just from playing in a pub band, or sitting in the guitar shop playing Stairway to Heaven.
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... Does that mean we should have classes on how to be a stripper at our colleges?
Just sayin....
Already do. It's called gymnastics. It prepares students for lucrative positions.
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You can't make all that much money dancing on a pole, and you can only do it for so many years. It's also only really available to people who are conventionally attractive.
So not much like playing video games for a living at all. People can and do make a decent living off Twitch steaming, there is no obvious upper age limit and it's a far less exploitative industry.
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I was thinking about that myself. I assume some of the ones with more money coming in will start doing plastic surgery...if they haven't started already. But makeup and flattering lighting can only do so much. Sooner or later one will look more like a soccer mom than a cute game-playing UwU e-girl.
Will their fans stay with them when they pause the game and get up when their children call for them? Or will they start watching the next 19 year old with a Razer Quartz headset, D.va chair and UwU makeup.
Re: huge profits... (Score:2)
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That's what college students do. They sit down in lecture halls. They sit down in class. They sit down at the library. They sit down to read, They sit down to write papers and take tests. By the time you reach college fitness is your own responsibility. College is not a god damn PE class.
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A swing and a miss. You need more practice on virtual baseball.
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why do you automatically interpret it as a personal rebuttal to the previous poster?
just reread his post. nowhere does he explicitly oppose the previous poster, he might be just following up on his argument, ie: "you are right, pe is actually pointless in college ... and so is gaming".
you'd enjoy less tunnel vision in virtual safari ;-)
so College gym at X200 cost of an 2 year gym? (Score:2)
so College gym at X200 cost of an 2 year gym? for 1 class works?? and then you have people with 250K loans they can't get rid of?
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Not only do they already eat complete shit three or more meals a day
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me to eat a twinkie. I'm going to eat one now in your honor. Thanks sir!
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8-P (Score:5, Funny)
"What I wanted to do was just provide a venue for students who are doing it anyway, to get credit,"
That's Nobel Prize material, there.
Maybe they will be taken more seriously if they offer it as double major with Bitcoin studies.
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I hope students enjoy paying off those loans they took out to pay for all their useless classes. It looks like Grandpa Joe has dropped his push for student loan forgiveness. That free money is starting to dry up now that inflation is going hot.
That debt will disappear if they push inflation high enough though.
Maybe that's the easier plan?
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Now what about the students doing drugs anyway?
They're still losers.
Hey they are learning more than Sports... (Score:2)
Sports scholarship students probably don't get much out of their sports sucking up their time and giving them life-long health problems (felt later on.) I don't see this as any worse, if not better than the sports programs.
That said, I don't approve of either and find the re-purposing of space in a library almost as offensive as remodeling it for racquetball courts. Oh, but they learn "sportsmanship!" whatever. That BS doesn't fool all of us.
Bitcoin studies is not ideal but actually would involve learning
Another sign of the apocalypse⦠(Score:1)
Maybe worthwhile? (Score:4, Interesting)
It sounds like they're taking some actual content (subjectively, of course) and just applying them to streaming video games. If the headline was 'College Offers Courses on Online Marketing', nobody would give a second thought about it. Maybe I'm just being too optimistic, but it sounds to me like the class is actually filling a niche that're useful to the students-- sure, "What I wanted to do was just provide a venue for students who are doing it anyway, to get credit" is there, but the gamers probably need the help if they actually want to monetize worth anything; going from streaming for fun to streaming for income... and, along the way, formalize the skills and knowledge involved.
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Not really arguing in support, but more towards 'wait and see' since how useful it is really depends on how the treatment of the courses and I have the suspicion that it'll mostly be fluff and not really about things that might actually prove useful despite their claims.
I'm also directing a sigh at the headline, since, judging by the most of the other comments here, people are looking at the headline and not the article (nothing new there), hence the regurgitation bit.
The sheer concept of a collegiate espor
Alternative headline (Score:1)
"Some Colleges Are Offering To Take Your Tuition Money In Exchange For Absolutely Nothing"
Depends on the game (Score:4, Interesting)
Good idea, but i it is allowed to apply to games that are totally based on reflexes and zero intellectual ability then it makes no sense.
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Good idea, but i it is allowed to apply to games that are totally based on reflexes and zero intellectual ability then it makes no sense.
Wouldn't it just be like all the other sports programs?
(ducks as the jocks enter the room)
Nobody owns exclusive rights to football (Score:2)
Wouldn't it just be like all the other sports programs?
Nope. Unlike ball sports, esports exist at the pleasure of video game publishers. These publishers can and do assert their exclusive right to perform a video game publicly against leagues.
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Interesting point. It is the publisher's right to control their IP as they wish, I imagine. I can see how that would give them a great amount of power compared to traditional, non-copyrighted sports.
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Independent baseball leagues (Score:2)
Major League Baseball has no exclusive rights to assert against independent baseball leagues [wikipedia.org]. This is the key difference between MLB's exclusive performance right over its clubs' matches and a video game publisher's exclusive performance right over its product.
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Is this any stupider than literature? (Score:2)
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So many kids are dumb as posts in useful subjects, but they've all read Shakespeare.
Most likely they haven't. The subtle instruction on power in Henry the 3 and The Tempest are things people mostly don't learn. Usually they just read a comedy, like Othello.
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Indirect learning with finite class schedules. (Score:2)
Maybe it is how it is taught? Literature can be a great way to understand the cultural elements to a period in history and provide perspective on social and political issues. It can be a way to get people to think about ethics without talking about trolleys. For example, novels written during and about the US great depression can provide insight at the micro level vs the macro level you would normally get in a US history or economics course.
That's my frustration. You're talking about indirect learning. For example, I would rather have a class on Java than a class on Minecraft with the intent I will pick up Java while messing around with Minecraft. If there was infinite time, we could learn indirectly and probably have fun along the way. The problem is those 4 years of English Lit I was force to take to get into college displaced advanced history classes or accounting classes or even woodshop...and this really isn't about me, but the fact t
So many save games (Score:2)
I need to find all my PS1 memory cards. I have done enough home for a associates degree surely.
I never would take that class (Score:3)
If you look at school from a money perspective, that one non-essential credit coils cost you a lot of money. You aren't only losing the time and money for the course but other things as well.
If you have student loans then you will also lose whatever interest you incur on the tution. And if extra courses set you back a semester then that's an extra charge of thousands of dollars because of fees (maybe you could include housing as a cost). On top of that if extra time at school means starting a job later then that also is lost money that you could have gained in salary.
I 'lost' one semester in college due to poor decisions, I'd estimate it cost me at least 10000$ over the course of my life.
Time at school is a valuable resource that should be conserved. If you do college make sure you have a good plan and stick with it, finish as soon as you can
And this is why college degrees (Score:2)
Are becoming ever more worthless.
Some *US* Colleges are offering credit for videoga (Score:2)
FTFY.
respect (Score:3)
xxx: Um, hey, I'm sorry to cut you off mid-sentence, but I have a little request... do you think you could call me "Doctor"?
yyy: What? Why would I do that?
xxx; Well... it's just that... I do in fact have a PhD, and it would mean a lot to me, make me feel like you understand my role in all this.
yyy: Uhh... sure, ok, ;yes I'll do that.
xxx: Thank you.
yyy: Ok... *doctor*... to finish things up, I'll add a supersized coke and one large fries.
This is why we shouldn't forgive student loan debt (Score:1)
get those numbers up (Score:2)
Gotta get those graduation numbers up to satisfy gov noisome's getting more money mandates. Seems students have lost interest in basket-weaving.
makes sense for lesser school (Score:1)