Firefox 89 Arrives With Controversial Proton Interface (neowin.net) 194
Mozilla's Firefox 89 releases to the general public today complete with the new Proton interface which simplifies the browser's menus and alters the tabs bar beyond anything we've seen from previous Firefox releases or other web browsers. From a report: This update also improves macOS integration and includes further privacy enhancements. The first thing that people will notice in this update is the Proton interface, the browser chrome and toolbar have been simplified so that redundant and less frequently used features have been removed, menus have been altered so that the most used features are prominent and visual noise has been reduced.
Proton also updates prompts so they have a cleaner appearance and unnecessary alerts and messages have been removed. The attached tabs have also been supplanted by floating tabs; Mozilla says the rounded design of the active tab "signals the ability to easily move the tab as needed." While almost everyone will support cleaner menus, the new tabs are drawing the ire of some who are not pleased with the radical departure from the traditional look and feel of tabs.
Proton also updates prompts so they have a cleaner appearance and unnecessary alerts and messages have been removed. The attached tabs have also been supplanted by floating tabs; Mozilla says the rounded design of the active tab "signals the ability to easily move the tab as needed." While almost everyone will support cleaner menus, the new tabs are drawing the ire of some who are not pleased with the radical departure from the traditional look and feel of tabs.
Dam (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Dam (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dam [and let the bitching commence] (Score:2)
I already hate it on the description.
Now let me "Restart to Update Firefox".
(But I bet I don't like it. More significantly, I double-bet I wouldn't have paid for any of the so-called improvements. I can't recall the last time Firefox managed to make a change that I actually liked enough that I would have helped paid for it. And Mozilla didn't ask, either.)
Ewwwwww! (Score:2)
What do you mean I should test it on other websites than Slashdot?
More importantly, I don't think that's the best way to spell the Subject. Doesn't fully capture my emotional reaction.
But actually I already like the white at the top. The old black border made it hard to see the top of the window. I currently have 12 browser windows open (but one isn't Firefox).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This is definitely not the case with firefox. I recently used a really old version of FF and it was so much easier to use than current version.
The menu bar was clear, did not have to hunt for options and so on. I really wish there was a browser that is closer to a proper browser in look and not the current crop of "modern art projects" but has a modern rendering engine underneath.
This is not only a problem with FF though, it is a disease that has gripped all browsers it seems.
I cringe every time I have to i
Re: (Score:2)
It isn't just browsers, am afraid. Seems like everyone working in software has decided to reinvent the wheel.
MBA majors are probably to blame again.
Re: (Score:2)
the already ruined their android browser (Score:2)
Their android version was the best browser available. Then they updated, destroyed the saved bookmarks in the process, ruined the interface, and removed almost every available extension. I tried staying downgraded but eventually accidently hit upgrade, so I switched to Kiwi, which uses all chrome desktop extensions. It's the best android browser at the moment.
As for firefox, you can always use the ESR releases on the desktop. No such think on android.
Re: the already ruined their android browser (Score:2)
I liked my submission better (Score:3, Informative)
Mozilla releases Firefox 89 and ruins the user interface, again
In an attempt to alienate another slice of its steadily shrinking user base, Mozilla releases the latest Firefox web browser with yet another useless user interface overhaul, this time called "Proton". It removes or hides some more functionality, eliminates icons in the main menu and nudges users towards creating a Mozilla account. Mozilla apparently pitches the browser to people who are accustomed to Chrome: "Works with Google products".
Re: (Score:3)
Re:I liked my submission better (Score:5, Informative)
All designs are done to accommodate for mobile phones and completely messing up the user interface for PC users.
Re: (Score:2)
I can see adding padding for touch devices, like phones, tablets, etc... but not on PCs or other things using a mouse. How hard would it be to automatically check for that and only add padding on though devices, or add a control item to specifically toggle it on/off?
For now, setting "browser (dot) proton (dot) contextmenus.enabled" to false will disable the extra padding ...
[submit filter complained the above looked like ascii art with the actual dots -- sigh]
Re: (Score:2)
Blame the Nazi ascii art poster.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, what do they need, like a FUCKING PROGRAMMER to fix that or something?
Hummm?
- fucking crickets -
Re: (Score:2)
The extra padding is annoying and a waste of space on a PC and I'd like to summarize my feelings as, "(barf)".
Re: (Score:3)
For now, setting "browser . proton.contextmenus . enabled" to false will disable the extra padding
I just tried it and even that's buggy. ...
Ultimately, I left the proton context menus enabled and used userChrome.css to trim the padding:
Enable: "toolkit . legacyUserProfileCustomizations . stylesheets" and put the following in "userChrome.css":
@media (-moz-proton) {
/* Tighten up drop-down/context/popup menu spacing */
menupopup > menuitem, menupopup > menu {
padding-block: 2px !important;
}
}
No matter what I tried, though, I couldn't clean up the padding in the hamburger menu -- (sigh)"
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
The minty color palette on the dark theme takes me back to smoking bad weed out of a bong filled with Scope.
Thanks for the laugh! I've smoked my fair share of weed and maybe then some, but a "bong filled with Scope" was never on my radar before this.
Re:I liked my submission better (Score:5, Informative)
"browser.proton.enabled" set to "false" now.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This got to be the most frequently asked question whenever Firefox release something new:
** How to disable the new interface/change? **
Re: (Score:2)
Now you've really made me want to try it. I've always thought icons in menus are useless, unless for some reason you need to use a familiar app but in a different language.
The "create an account" thing train has left the station a long time ago. People expect to have their bookmarks and passwords managed across their devices, and there's no way to do that without some kind of account. The big question is does the developer *privilege* itself when it comes to privacy protections. Google is widely believe
Yup and if you have vision issues ... (Score:3)
Yeah, I don't completely hate the new look but it definitely is a downgrade for me. I have some vision issues and this professor proton look reduces text and icon contrast, shrinks or removes icons and removes separators from unfocused tabs.
For me, because of my vision issues, usability is degraded and my eye fatigue has noticeably increased. Not impossible to use but not as easy. I will deal with it but headaches after a few hours use are not a good sign.
Looks to me like a group of artsy purists gaine
Re: (Score:2)
I agree - I have issues with my eyesight, and this is a step back. It's not just Firefox, either. Software seems to be designed by people who assume everyone has excellent eyesight, and is using a touchy-feely 'device'.
The extra padding everywhere is extremely wasteful of space, especially in bookmarks. And especially if you have to scale things up for your eyes.
My temporary workaround is to install Firefox ESR - it is still good for a few months anyway.
For most of the software I use, every 'upgrade' is a d
Another of they Joys of ESR (Score:2, Interesting)
No proton until around december.
Plenty of time for people to develop chrome.ccs hacks, themes or Extensions to remedy whatever features are the less liked. Or to Mozila to backpedal on the most egrerious flaws.
Oh, and we also get to "enjoy" Adobe Flash too, if and only if we want it or need it.
Long Live ESR
Re: (Score:3)
Rest assured, if there's a way to work around Mozilla's decisions, they're working around the clock to remove it.
Fortunately they're not very competent, so it takes them a long time to figure out how to clamp down.
Re: (Score:3)
Well, judging by the screenshot in the link I'll be switching to Konqueror or some other alternative. Chrome-like doesn't work for me at all. If Konqueror were a slightly better browser, I'd have already switched. Vivaldi is possible, though, or possibly WaterFox or Brave ... it's been over a year since I've looked at them.
Re: (Score:3)
I've been using Brave for about a year. It gets the job done and filters a lot of annoying crap by default.
It's not controversial (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's not controversial (Score:5, Informative)
So let me Fix That For You
People who like change purely for the sake of change are BAD! And RETARDED! (And prone to believing silver bullets fix everything.)
.
Re:It's not controversial (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: It's not controversial (Score:3)
The worse user experience decision is to change your widgets around. There is almost no conceivable improvement in GUI that isn't offset by breaking de facto behavior.
Improvement in workflow is desirable but new buttons and widgets and tabs aren't normally required.
UX is one of those things where the less you do the more you've done for the end user.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem isn't that the new UI is worse than the previous one, the problem is the constant changing of the interface for no reason.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem isn't that the new UI is worse than the previous one, the problem is the constant changing of the interface for no reason.
Don't know about that. I can't really see any benefit to the new floating/detached tabs, except perhaps it makes things easier on the coding side. Now, except for a highlight/color change, tabs don't look associated with the pages. The additional padding around menu items probably helps on touch devices but is retarded and space wasteful on PCs (devices using a mouse) -- Firefox could check for that and adjust the padding automatically (or via a user control) if the developers actually cared.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:It's not controversial (Score:5, Interesting)
Just updated, and the UI looks substantially the same. Checked all of my daily used features, they are still exactly where I left them. The only new thing I noticed were mild, inconsequential changes in the tab bar, including a few more vertical pixels wasted. Not many, maybe 5px. And on the first load all my plugins were disabled so I saw a couple of ads.
So there's barely anything new, but what there is, certainly falls closer to bad than good.
Re: (Score:3)
Just updated, and the UI looks substantially the same. Checked all of my daily used features, they are still exactly where I left them. The only new thing I noticed were mild, inconsequential changes in the tab bar, including a few more vertical pixels wasted. Not many, maybe 5px. And on the first load all my plugins were disabled so I saw a couple of ads.
So there's barely anything new, but what there is, certainly falls closer to bad than good.
I agree. Other than the tabs are round (which I stopped noticing in 5 minutes), uh it looks the same as it was before
Re: (Score:2)
If you access a menu, via right click or turning on the menu bar, there's vertical space wasted between each menu item.
I don't usually get the hate for Mozilla but these minor cosmetic changes seem bland and unnecessary.
I'm all for modernising if it shrinks their codebase and makes the browser more performant and maintainable. But change for change sake, meh.
Re: (Score:2)
If you access a menu, via right click or turning on the menu bar, there's vertical space wasted between each menu item.
I don't usually get the hate for Mozilla but these minor cosmetic changes seem bland and unnecessary.
I'm all for modernising if it shrinks their codebase and makes the browser more performant and maintainable. But change for change sake, meh.
i like the greater space between menu items. Less cluttered and easier to read.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Blame Microsoft for that - the fashion fad to remove borders around windows and make it unclear which window you are closing or moving.
Re: (Score:2)
Questionable Themes (Score:4, Insightful)
The system theme looks nothing like the system I use (nor any I've used), most importantly it sticks with a white background for the window header which means its impossible to know which window has focus, and makes it quite difficult to read.
At least it can still be disabled, search for proton in about:config
Re: (Score:2)
At least it can still be disabled, search for proton in about:config
For now...don't these initially configurable changes have a habit of becoming permanent after a few releases?
I like Firefox and still use Firefox Developer Edition as my preferred browser, but still hate all of these UI changes that keep appearing...I just don't get it.
Re: (Score:2)
On my computer the focused tab has a drop shadow and is brighter.
I don't like the fact that there's no divider between tabs, but overall I think it's cleaner and easier to see.
Tabs looks Ok to me, even more useful now (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I just updated to 89, and I'm not sure why there is an alleged outcry against the rounder tabs.
Some Apple fan boi
Says, "Apple did it first!", hence
The alleged outcry.
Re: (Score:3)
Telephone sanitizers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: Telephone sanitizers (Score:2)
They're working on car dashboard systems now.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Whew! Good thing open-source's "never agree on anything" will make 2021 the year of Linux on the desktop.
Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic (Score:5, Insightful)
Mozilla has poured a *ton* of energy into superficialities - repeated logo redesigns, UI tinkering, etc - over the past seven years, and all they have to show for it is steadily declining market share.
Meanwhile last year they fired their people working on the future of their browser engine (Servo), much of their security response and QA teams, the people working on making royalty-free video work (AV1), and so on. You know, silly stuff like that. Obviously less important than the wonderful three hundredth major UI "refresh."
I switched to Mozilla way back with M9; hard to believe that's been nearly 22 years. It was exciting to see FF change the world around 15 years ago. It's been hard to watch the recent trajectory.
Literally the *last* thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Give us a Privacy-Focussed Release
I had a forum chat with the authors of AdBlock Plus, back when that Plug-In lost the ability to allow users to browse all the various page elements and select the ones that they didn't like for black-listing. I thought it was ABP being stupid, but they told me it was a restriction placed on them by changes in the underlying API. So for a start, Mozilla, how about backing that crap out?
2. Give us a "Smart" In-Cognito-Mode browser
Maintain a run-time table of all the different web sites I visit... and give me an option that "jiggles" with the basic setup of the browser as a move between sites - things like altering my browser window dimensions by a pixel here or there, lying about my screen colour depth, switching between US and UK English, stuff like that. I won't notice, but it will screw up site-to-site tracking a treat.
3. Re-Imagine Cookie Management
See if you can develop some intelligence about popular web sites [ooh, the top 500-1000 would be plenty] and get one of your developers to access each site and harvest cookie data. Reverse engineer the cookies to figure out which cookies are "session" and which cookies are "tracking" and so on. Give me a new feature to refuse [or accept and then throw away] anything that looks like a tracking cookie, based on your analysis. Maybe with the option to turn this off and on and one-click-to-report if your engine screws up, so you can take another look.
But most importantly of all, know that if you try and force me in to some "Mozilla Cloud" crap, I'll drop your product like a hot potato. I would *much* rather pay you $10 a year and have you spend all your time and all your effort in to protecting me on the web, offering me a simple, clean interface where I can *control* my browsing experience, than I would have you offer me something for "free" that then compromises my privacy, forces me in to usage models I don't want or need or subjects me to other crap.
If Mozilla made a fully committed move towards being the "People's Browser" and doing their utmost to protecting our privacy on line, they would get better support.
Interface changes is one step short of committing project-level suicide. Or at least, it is when there are so many more important things that need fixing.
Sigh.
Re: (Score:3)
I just got over to https://www.seamonkey-project.... [seamonkey-project.org] and downloaded the browser - and now there's an UI that is doing what I expect.
Unfortunately uBlock isn't supported by that browser.
Re: (Score:2)
Oops - spoke too soon, here it is: https://github.com/gorhill/uBl... [github.com]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This seems uninformed to the point of intellectual dishonesty. I'm not the biggest fan of their focus right now either. But just a few points.
To #1: They do, regularly. This overlaps with #3, but the headline features for 86 for example, was definitely privacy oriented.
To #2: They aren't doing exactly what you lay out, but close. Enhanced tracking protection does similar things to avoid browser finger printing, and it was made the default for private browsing just a few releases ago.
To #3: Just three releas
Re: (Score:2)
But please, help me understand something Why is it that
1. If I want to intelligently manage my cookies, I have to download and install something like CookieBro?
2. Mozilla made changes to the browser that effectively broke the more advanced features of AdBlockPlus - i.e. removed my ability to scan the source of the page to mark content that looks suspicious when I want to set up my own custom filters? That was one of the most
Re: (Score:2)
No idea there, I don't really care about any of those features myself. There's this section in Linus Torvald's book Just for Fun, I read it almost twenty years ago, so I'm very paraphrasing. But he said there are basically two kinds of computer users. Those who wanted to use the computer for a means to an end, they mostly wanted it to get out of the way, and those for whom using the computer was an end unto itself, they wanted to tweak and personalize as many things as they could in order to get to the end.
Re: (Score:2)
You're basically describing Brave but on Gecko. Maybe Mozilla should experiment with an alternate economic model to ads too?
All the old Mozilla energy went to Brave. Mozilla is basically a jobs program for woke corner rounders now. They're coasting on the reputation of the people who left.
Re: (Score:3)
Mozilla has poured a *ton* of energy into superficialities - repeated logo redesigns, UI tinkering, etc - over the past seven years, and all they have to show for it is steadily declining market share.
Whoa, slow down, you missed a very important part in the equation:
A whole lot of UX designers, programmers, middle managers and some senior VPs got paid a lot of money during those seven or more years.
How else do you legally transfer a lot of money from an organisation to your own pocket?
I hope that in Firefox setup menu... (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
There's next to nothing changed from version 88, at least nothing that I can see.
Now if there was a switch that let you take the UI back by 10 or 12 years, that's something I could get behind.
Looks Fine To Me (Score:2)
Don't understand what is controversial. Everything still works like version 88.
Still the best browser for me.
Re: (Score:2)
It' FUGLY!
Fingers crossed they won't disable about:config like they did in the mobile version.
Re: (Score:3)
It looks exactly the same except for the round corners on the tabs. Don't see how that makes it ugly at all. Me thinks thou art protesteth too much over nothing just to get attention.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, right, the same. White toolbar background, large bookmark list, wasted space around tabs and so on. It may be nothing to you, but it's fugly for me.
Thank $deity for the kill switch.
Re: (Score:2)
There is a disable entry in about:config, so small credit for that.
I’m fed up of browsers. (Score:2)
Mozilla Self-Sabbotaging (Score:2)
BTW, Firefox Mobile users still cannot select a bookmark from the list. WTF!
Who is this for? (Score:2)
Is it just for UI folks to enjoy?
Was this some kind of hail mary to some imagined pool of non-technical folks, who will just use the default browser anyway?
It's like one of those game redesigns that takes away major features of the game, or makes them take 8 extra steps to access - then says they did it do 'streamline' the experience.
A large portion of the top 10 downloaded add-ons for the past 5 years on Firefox have been UI reversion tools.
People tend to like being able to access the features they use.
Hid
Eh ... (Score:2)
A quick tour of FF 89's menus shows little or no change from 88 - for me, at least.
In other news, everything that was broken in the previous release remains broken in 89. In particular, Mozilla's idiotic decision to make the "W' keystroke shortcut when left-clicking on a link in a web page open the containers submenu (instead of opening a new window) remains aggressively anti-user. As does having "N" open a new window from a left-click on a bookmark toolbar item.
As soon as I finish my media server mobo tran
Re: (Score:2)
A quick tour of FF 89's menus shows little or no change from 88 - for me, at least.
There's a lot more padding around menu items, probably for touch interfaces -- like phones, which is dumb as phones have less screen space.
Re: (Score:2)
Windows tablets, competing with the touch friendly Chromium-based Edge.
Microsoft and their partners sell touchscreen Windows devices by the truckload. Firefox desktop on a mobile phone, e.g. Pinephone is perhaps a few thousand.
Re: (Score:2)
"Restore previous session" is no longer directly available from the hamburguer menu.
Now it's hidden behind History. They managed to complicate it a little further. Real champs!!
Clearly designed by programmers (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not quite. You'd be browsing the internet using the command-line and the only colors available would be black and green if that was the case.
Re: (Score:2)
It is quite easy to tell when any piece of software is created by programmers.
Yes it is, for most definitions of programmers.
Tradition vs progress. (Score:2)
While almost everyone will support cleaner menus, the new tabs are drawing the ire of some who are not pleased with the radical departure from the traditional look and feel of tabs.
In solidarity makers of trash can and file folder icons show support.
about:config (Score:2)
browser.proton
false
Dialog Boxes over the content area (Score:4, Interesting)
This screenshot here: https://cdn.neow.in/news/image... [cdn.neow.in]
It shows a Dialog Box drawn OVER THE CONTENT AREA. This is a huge no-no, as it is trivial for a website to display HTML elements that look like kind of dialog boxes.
I got 89, it's no big deal. You'd hardly notice. (Score:5, Insightful)
I just got 89 - The only thing that looks different is that the tabs now have rounded edges, whoop de doo.
I wouldn't even have noticed it if I hadn't been reading all these 'The sky is falling!' posts. My tabs look fine, all my extensions still work, my dark mode still works, my pinned tabs still work.
I really don't see what the whole fuss was about, other than that nerds are like cats and reflexively throw hissy fits any time anything changes in the slightest. Now some changes are terrible, but this is just... nothing.
Re: (Score:3)
If you don't recognize differences, maybe you shouldn't comment about user interfaces. Ignorant people like you would make stair steps half an inch taller and be completely baffled why people start falling down the stairs, and then you would berate them for throwing "hissy fits any time anything changes in the slightest".
Maybe they should have named it Neutron (Score:2)
It seems like the charged name is repelling a lot of people.
it's only been a few hours, but I'm digging it.
Mozilla, Please Stop This (Score:2)
Every single damn time you change the browser UI, you end up making it worse. This has been happening for over a decade.
Which coincides with Firefox's slide in usage share. It's time to rethink the strategy of blindly following Chrome's lead. Google has an agenda to keep users ignorant and dependent on their services, which Mozilla should not be copying.
Re: (Score:2)
Mozilla does worse than that, also blindly following Microsoft's "lead", and adding to that the stupidity of needless feature churning (such as rearranging menus) without any common sense or user input. Developers working in a vacuum with their own sense of aesthetics as a guideline for a UI is always a recipe for disaster, they're far too ignorant and lack a shred of common sense.
Bookmarks menu (Score:2)
That's the most important thing to me. As long as it visible and accessible in the interface I can deal with most other changes. Why they keep wanting to remove things that make the user interface usable is beyond me. Some think it makes things prettier I guess.
Clean up Firefox interface? (Score:2)
Easy. Get rid of Pocket.
Lepton (Score:2)
browser.proton.enabled (Score:2)
How to disable for now (Score:3)
Open a tab for about:config
Search for proton
Change to false:
browser.proton.enabled
Et voila. Mostly normal. Icons are still faded and no icons in the drop down hamburger menu.
Totally broke my interface with custom userChrome (Score:2)
I've had custom userChrome for ages to put tabs on the bottom; this totally broke the whole tab bar for me so I guess there'll be another few hours of fixing it. I have to do this every so often with version changes.
It's easy to say "well, don't use userChrome if you want it to be stable", but i don't get why there needs to be such massive wholesale changes for the tabs interface that it totally breaks with updates like this. Very frustrating.
I kinda miss the interface of Mozilla M16. (Score:2)
It was the first time I thought of a browser interface as "cool".
Here are the acutal improvements. (Score:3)
They also (obviously) changed the way tabs look and I'm not really sure I buy their reasoning for this (it seems to be about making tab organization more obvious? I don't get it), and they got rid of icons from menus for some reason (I actually liked those, this seems like a negative to me unless there's an unmentioned performance reason behind it).
Re: 96% of internet users prefer something else (Score:4, Funny)
I'm completely baffled as to why they're in decline?! They have amazing diversity, and the Mozilla blog seems to focus on identity politics - topics key to developing a competitive browser.
Re:Meh (Score:5, Informative)
short answer (Score:2)
Neutrons stick to protons because the energy needed to break the strong force bond isn't available most of the time. When there is sufficient energy, due to a high-energy photon or collision, neutrons often do break free.
Electrons don't crash into protons because the energy (mass) needed to convert them into a neutron isn't available most of the time. That difference in mass between a proton and a neutron is usually represented in a neutrino and a photon. When that isn't there, the electron settles into