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Earth

National Geographic Recognizes New 5th Ocean (nationalgeographic.com) 64

On World Oceans Day, Nat Geo cartographers say the swift current circling Antarctica keeps the waters there distinct and worthy of their own name: the Southern Ocean. National Geographic reports: Since National Geographic began making maps in 1915, it has recognized four oceans: the Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, and Arctic Oceans. Starting on June 8, World Oceans Day, it will recognize the Southern Ocean as the world's fifth ocean. "The Southern Ocean has long been recognized by scientists, but because there was never agreement internationally, we never officially recognized it," says National Geographic Society Geographer Alex Tait. Geographers debated whether the waters around Antarctica had enough unique characteristics to deserve their own name, or whether they were simply cold, southern extensions of the Pacific, Atlantic, and Indian Oceans.

While the other oceans are defined by the continents that fence them in, the Southern Ocean is defined by a current. Scientists estimate that the Antarctic Circumpolar Current (ACC) was established roughly 34 million years ago, when Antarctica separated from South America. That allowed for the unimpeded flow of water around the bottom of the Earth. The ACC flows from west to east around Antarctica, in a broad fluctuating band roughly centered around a latitude of 60 degrees south -- the line that is now defined as the northern boundary of the Southern Ocean. Inside the ACC, the waters are colder and slightly less salty than ocean waters to the north.

Extending from the surface to the ocean floor, the ACC transports more water than any other ocean current. It pulls in waters from the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans, helping drive a global circulation system known as the conveyor belt, which transports heat around the planet. Cold, dense water that sinks to the ocean floor off Antarctica also helps store carbon in the deep ocean. In both those ways, the Southern Ocean has a crucial impact on Earth's climate. [...] For now, by fencing in the frigid southern waters, the ACC helps keep Antarctica cold and the Southern Ocean ecologically distinct. Thousands of species live there and nowhere else. By drawing attention to the Southern Ocean, the National Geographic Society hopes to promote its conservation.

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National Geographic Recognizes New 5th Ocean

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  • by ClueHammer ( 6261830 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @06:06AM (#61468550)
    Not carving it up into more and more smaller pieces.
    • by MacMann ( 7518492 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @07:04AM (#61468632)

      I remember being in grade school wondering why Europe was considered a separate continent from Asia. There;s the Indian "subcontinent" as that's separated off by mountains. Sometimes I'll see China also described as a subcontinent. There's a subcontinent that is called Southeast Asia, Arabian Peninsula, or some variation on those. I can see Europe as an Asian subcontinent but that dividing line would be at the Ural Mountains, not some political border. Should Africa even be distinct from Asia?

      We divide things up all the time as a matter of convenience. We can't have a nation as large as the USA managed by one government. Even when the federal government could simply lump the whole nation under one jurisdiction for something it tends to break it up into zones for circuit courts, NRC regions, radio call sign groups, independent sub-national grids (including one now (in)famous state grid in Texas), and more divisions for different reasons.

      One unifying act was a bunch of separate nations coming together to form the United States of America. People forget that the USA is a federation of independent nations. People think the USA is a nation divided into administrative areas for the convenience of the national government to enforce rules they decide upon in DC. DC exists to enforce rules in distinct areas of law carved out for the benefit of these independent nations. The states unified on a defined federal border, then the federal government divided that responsibility off to DHS, and further divided that into enforcement by land, sea, and air. The TSA protects the border at airports. The USCG at seaports. On land that's Customs and Border Protection. There's more to DHS than that too. DHS has a training center, infrastructure protection (which seems to be dropping the ball plenty lately), cyber protection, Secret Service to protect high profile federal employees, etc. We could lump all federal law enforcement into one group but the FBI under Justice has a different enough job than TSA under DHS, which is distinct from State, Commerce, etc.

      If we are going to divide this out then why not "Antarctic Ocean"? It is defined by the flow of cold and low salt water around the continent. No doubt from the glacial melt as it flows off the land.

      If these division bother you then don't look at all the "seas" that the oceans are divided into. There are not "seven seas" as told in old folklore, more like dozens.

  • What the fuck? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nagora ( 177841 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @06:07AM (#61468554)

    It's been called the Southern Ocean for at least 200 years.

    • You can call it whatever you want. You can call bees "eoiuaoefaiuodsausaois" for what I care for a millenia.

      If there's no international agreement, it's worthless whatever you choose to call things as we use the word to communicate between us and words have specific means that has been agreed to.

      • Re:What the fuck? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @06:57AM (#61468622)

        You can call it whatever you want. You can call bees "eoiuaoefaiuodsausaois" for what I care for a millenia.

        If there's no international agreement, it's worthless whatever you choose to call things as we use the word to communicate between us and words have specific means that has been agreed to.

        Let me know why a bunch of map writers, should be prioritized over scientists on the world's stage. Is it somehow our fault that National Geographic wants to be purposely defiantly ignorant about a name that has been in use for literally hundreds of years?

        In other words, this is a pointless non-issue for paper pushers who pretend they still have a relevant job. And pretending there are borders in our oceans to justify more labels, is like pretending there are sides in a Swamp.

        • Let me know why a bunch of map writers, should be prioritized over scientists on the world's stage.

          Why is the agreement not scientific in the first place? I mean we didn't rely on map writers to demote Pluto into a Kuiper belt object, that as an agreement of scientists.

          I think the fundamental problem is we have the wrong people on the table doing the agreeing.

          • An agreement of four scientists who were the only ones left at the end of a long day of discussions, presentations and voting on stuff when the rest had gone off to join the after party. But that number was considered quorate, so now Pluto is a trans-Neptunian minor planet that was originally a Kuiper Belt object. Maybe.

            • Nope. A vote by four scientists. An agreement by an overwhelmingly large portion of scientists who adopted the nomenclature without complaint or protest.

              • There are a small number of scientists who get moderately het up about the question. A smaller number don't actually work on exploration of Pluto and other KBOs. Most see the swarm of "minor bodies" in the inner, middle and outer parts of the solar system, and recognise Pluto to be part of that group, not the small group of much larger bodies which can push the minor bodies around with no orbital consequences to themselves.
        • is like pretending there are sides in a Swamp

          You must be referring to marshes or wetlands - I had in mind the Pentagon. ;)

          • Marshes, bogs, fens and swamps are all types of wetlands.

            Types of Wetlands [epa.gov]

            Essentially, a swamp has woody vegetation (trees, shrubs), while a marsh is mostly reeds and grasses.

          • is like pretending there are sides in a Swamp

            You must be referring to marshes or wetlands - I had in mind the Pentagon. ;)

            You were close. Just down the street from the Pentagon.

            In that building where people pretend to deserve the title of Representative, while trying to claim they're different from the creatures on the other "side" of a Swamp.

        • Actually, within the sciences it's been described as "the Southern Ocean" since at least Cook's expedition, so that's about 250-260 years. And Cook was a pretty damned good mapmaker himself.
      • by nagora ( 177841 )

        If there's no international agreement, it's worthless whatever you choose to call things as we use the word to communicate between us and words have specific means that has been agreed to.

        Yeah, right. Sailors have been using a term for centuries but there was just complete confusion until there was "international agreement". Bullshit. International agreement is about ownership and territory, not some strange semantic scenario in your head.

        • Not sure I would use scuttlebutt as an example of a word used by sailors without international approval. Especially since it has two meanings.
      • Oceanographers consider Earth to have but one ocean.

        Those other places are seas; not oceans.

        NG can do what it wants.

    • by samdu ( 114873 )

      I had never even HEARD of the "Southern Ocean" until about a year ago. Literally it had never been mentioned in any class I'd taken, any book I'd read, or any TV Show or Movie I had ever seen.

      • That's not a very meaningful statement without you indicating how many years you'd gone without hearing the term "Southern Ocean".

        There was a time when I heard the term for the first time. That was probably several years before I started to formally study geography and geology (as in, there were slots in my time table labelled "Geology, room this" and "Geography, room that". So, say, about 1975, maybe a year or two earlier. So, call it about 10 years of not hearing (or noticing) the term, and 45-odd years

  • They are a well respected organisation and these arguments sound logic which others might follow.
    • They have for over 200 years, This is like Finally labeling the USA on maps rather than the Thirteen Colonies .,

    • by quenda ( 644621 )

      They are a well respected organisation and these arguments sound logic

      They *were* a well respected organisation, until they got woke and started apologising for past accurate comments and depictions.
      Logic and truth now run a distant second to inclusiveness and equity.

      It's a wonder they dictate definitions at all. Who are we to say one person's pond is not an ocean?

    • They were a well-respected organisation. Now their opinion carries as much weight as that of any other part of the Disney Corporation.
  • The world used to be so simple. Ever since I was a kid, "science" class taught that there was four oceans and nine planets. But no! Now it's five oceans and eight planets!

    So help me, if "science" decides tomorrow that there's an eighth continent, I swear I'm going to start burning some books!

  • They're a joke (Score:5, Insightful)

    by technothrasher ( 689062 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @07:23AM (#61468664)
    National Geo? The people that bought out a highly respected organization, and now put "alternative" medicine and Jesus on their magazine covers. and runs Big Foot and Ghost Hunter shows on their TV channel? I care what they say because why?
    • Point made. They are not valid.

    • Re:They're a joke (Score:5, Informative)

      by bws111 ( 1216812 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @08:42AM (#61468874)

      Nobody 'bought out a highly respected organization'. The National Geographic Society is a charitable organization made up of scientists and educators. The National Geographic CHANNEL is a joint operation between the NGS (27%) and Disney (73%). Disney runs the channel, with SOME of the content provided by NGS.

    • I care what they say because why?

      Because intelligent argument is based on the message rather than ad hominem attacks?

    • Rupert Murdoch now owns the National Geographic Magazine and TV show. I think there is still a non-profit arm that pays for explorations etc. (which provides the material for the magazine and TV show, presumably benefiting Murdoch). Even so, people who donated large sums of money and even their estates before the takeover are probably are probably not too happy (or are spinning in their graves).
      • by bws111 ( 1216812 )

        Murdoch hasn't owned it for 2 years. Disney is the majority holder.

        • Murdoch hasn't owned it for 2 years. Disney is the majority holder.

          Just the other side of the same coin.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by mrbester ( 200927 )

          Disney herded lemmings off a cliff and claimed it was natural behaviour in a "documentary", so not really seeing a benefit here.

    • Re:They're a joke (Score:5, Informative)

      by I've Got Three Cats ( 4794043 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @08:55AM (#61468938)

      We need to distinguish between National Geographic Partners LLC with the National Geographic Society. The former is majority owned by Disney and is responsible for all commercial products. This includes TV, print, and events.

      The National Geographic Society is a separate non-profit entity, although what their actual purpose is now seems unclear. They may just be a shell organization who owns part of National Geographic Partners LLC.

  • That allowed for the unimpeded flow of water around the bottom of the Earth.

    Someone needs to be slapped for that.

  • If we have an arctic ocean, it clearly should be named the antarctic ocean. NatGeo is clearly racist against ants.
    • Theres no Arctic ocean, just an Arctic sea. Technically Antarctica is incorrect since there isnt an independent Arctic land mass but its way too late to rename that without a huge debate. My guess is Southern Ocean rolls off the tongue better.
      • As it's less salty, you're more likely to drink it (unless your thing is, umm, imbibing salty fluid). Not sure there's much difference in viscosity.

  • that allowed for the unimpeded flow of water around the bottom of the Earth

    Bottom of the earth? What the hell?

    Cartographers print maps with North towards top of the map and south towards the bottom of the page. Folks, it is just a convention. Australia and Antartica are NOT below the equator. Whats below the equator is ocean and continent and earth crust all the way to the center 6400 km away.

    We have enough bigotry and discrimination in the world, let us not add boreocentrists vs austrocentrists cultur

    • We have enough bigotry and discrimination in the world, let us not add boreocentrists vs austrocentrists culture war to the already long list.

      Those are genders aren't they?

  • by Black Parrot ( 19622 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @08:31AM (#61468818)

    We don't want a new ocean; we want Pluto back.

    • Pluto hasn't left, just sanity.

    • You might want Pluto back. I don't. I'm perfectly comfortable with minor body number 134340. It puts it in reasonable relation to the rest of the Solar system.

      Oh, a 5-digit UID. So there's a reasonable chance that we spent somewhat similar periods of times familiar with "9 planets" and so on. But for some reason, you attach more importance to it than I did.

      The writing was on the wall for Pluto long before Brown's identification of Eris (and his amusing choice of a name). Really, it was Christy's recogniti

  • by ElizabethGreene ( 1185405 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @09:13AM (#61468984)
    If you ask a fish, there is only one ocean. It is dotted with a few small land masses, but they are of no real consequence. There's a map that shows this in an interesting way. The earth as seen by a fish [i.redd.it]
    • Define "fish". I'll wait.

      • This feels like a trap...

        Generally I would mean members of bone-fish Osteichthyes, but there are a couple of other groups as well. (e.g Sharks and rays are in a cartilage group and there is a group of boneless fish too but damned if I can remember the name of them.)

        Stretching way way back (it's been a while) the criteria are Animals with a spinal chord in a backbone, paired gills, hard segmented endoskeleton, a tail behind their vent, and spend most or all of their lives in water.

        From context you should al

        • He (? probably, being "mr_something") is trying to get you trapped into trying to construct a paraphyletic group. I wouldn't play.

          Fish are tetrapod craniate gnathostome vertebrates with oral teeth (sometimes secondarily lost) containing enamel and cartilage. Some have secondary growth of bone (in either endodermal rods or mesodermal plates), and the bone and teeth have some historical connection.
          It is an unsettled question whether conodont-animals with their pharyngyal tooth-like structures are "fish", or

    • The strong eastward current encircling Antarctica causes a relatively short natural border between different climates for distinct marine life. It's arguably the waters most deserving of any to be labeled as a separate ocean -- It's the oceanic equivalent of crossing a mountain range.
  • I thought we were supposed to be sailing the seven seas.

  • Nat geo suits: we need more clicks. Clicks drive donations.

  • For hundreds of year people have referred to the 7 oceans as "The Seven Seas"
    Did we lose three along the way?

  • Now we just need to find the other two, and our collection will be complete!

  • Their name is National Geographic.
    And that nation is the USA.
    Which has no physical connection to any ocean anywhere near Antarctica.
    Why would they have any say over this?
    Can Australia or Malaysia or Botswana have an equivalent say over what the Great Lakes in the US are called.

    On the other hand, we have this map which includes the Southern Ocean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
    Which was taken from the IHO 23-3rd: Limits of Oceans and Seas, Special Publication 23, 3rd Edition 1953, published by the Intern

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