John McAfee's Death Complicates US Efforts To Seize His Assets (bloomberg.com) 122
John McAfee's death last week in a Spanish prison complicates the U.S. government's intent to recover millions of dollars it says the software tycoon owed in taxes and allegedly ill-gotten gains from promoting cryptocurrencies. From a report: McAfee, who decades ago founded the anti-virus company that bears his name, was found dead in his cell just hours after Spanish courts approved his extradition to the U.S. to face charges of tax evasion. U.S. prosecutors accused McAfee of not filing tax returns from 2014 to 2018 even as he earned millions from "promoting cryptocurrencies, consulting work, speaking engagements and selling the rights to his life story for a documentary," according to an indictment last June in a U.S. court in Tennessee, where he once lived.
Spanish court documents released last week alleged he owed the U.S. government more than $4.2 million in taxes. Separately, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission claimed McAfee promoted investments in initial coin offerings without disclosing he was paid more than $23 million to do so. The U.S. Department of Justice has a similar case against him. According to the indictment, McAfee managed to avoid paying taxes by routing his payments through bank accounts and cryptocurrency accounts set up in other people's names and hiding assets like real estate, a vehicle and a yacht also under the names of others. Such a complex money trail could keep lawyers busy for years.
Spanish court documents released last week alleged he owed the U.S. government more than $4.2 million in taxes. Separately, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission claimed McAfee promoted investments in initial coin offerings without disclosing he was paid more than $23 million to do so. The U.S. Department of Justice has a similar case against him. According to the indictment, McAfee managed to avoid paying taxes by routing his payments through bank accounts and cryptocurrency accounts set up in other people's names and hiding assets like real estate, a vehicle and a yacht also under the names of others. Such a complex money trail could keep lawyers busy for years.
Deadman's Switch (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone gonna drop a link for us ..?
Re: (Score:1)
What was your point?
But my real disappointment was the lack of funny comments. I'd have thought this story was a natural to attract such. I'd try to fill the gap, but I have already proven I don't know how to write a joke. (Or maybe I wouldn't even try? It's a rather morbid story, after all.)
Re: (Score:1)
Anyone gonna drop a link for us ..?
What was your point?
But my real disappointment was the lack of funny comments. I'd have thought this story was a natural to attract such. I'd try to fill the gap, but I have already proven I don't know how to write a joke. (Or maybe I wouldn't even try? It's a rather morbid story, after all.)
McAfee publicly stated that he had information about powerful people linked to a deadman's switch. GP is wondering where it is. If it's a good switch, it probably has a couple week minimum wait time for emergency woopsie doodles.
Of course since he publicly stated this, then there's a good chance that someone discovered the switch and disabled it before he died.
They only have to worry if he had a second switch with the same information on a longer time limit.
alleged he owed the U.S. government (Score:1, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Sure --- but most who owe that kind of money in unpaid taxes aren't nearly as vocal about the problems with the government. If you keep a low profile, you can likely funnel a lot of income through other people's names and accounts and go unnoticed.
McAfee was at a disadvantage from the get-go because most people assumed the guy was worth millions just by virtue of owning a successful software company for years.
Re:alleged he owed the U.S. government (Score:5, Informative)
For a few years, a long time ago. He hasn't been a part of McAfee, Inc (or Network Associates, or McAfee Associates ...) any time in this CENTURY.
But you're right, most people don't realize he sold his interests so long ago.
Re: (Score:3)
His real mistake was not renouncing his citizenship. People keep forgetting that as long as you are a US citizen, you have to file taxes every year. That even goes for people with dual citizenship (by birth) who have never been to the US.
Re: (Score:2)
Most Americans don't know they have to pay US income tax on money they earn while outside the USA. It's not really something that is covered in school.
As I recall the USA is one of the few countries that does that.
If someone with more accurate info wants to chime in please do.
Re: (Score:2)
I was an official expat for a year. It was quite clear that federal income tax filings were required when working abroad. State taxes are much more complicated.
What I didn’t understand was that when you don’t have any income you still need to file a return.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Many people who you claim a lot more, actually don't. If they were legally able to take advantage of the Tax System, or have responsibility for their bad actions redirected to a corporation, while reprehensible and immoral, is still legal. So thy don't owe more, even if they deserve to owe more.
McAfee had issues, and exasperated the problem by making a bigger deal than it was.
For example we have a Guy at a bar, he is flirting with a pretty lady. The lady wasn't interested in him, but he persists, so the b
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I state that government taxation is theft and it is immoral and reprehensible
That's because you're a Libertardian fanatic. Those of us who live in the real world and realize that we're part of a larger society know that taxes pay for the services that we receive. Unfortunately for you most people don't believe that the Magical Mystical Free Market Fairy can wave her magic wand and provide all those service for free.
Re: alleged he owed the U.S. government (Score:3, Insightful)
> pay for the services that we receive
If that was the case then you wouldn't need to pay taxes while living abroad, yet you have to. Even if you don't receive any service from your government you still have to pay taxes just because you are an American citizen.
So yeah, you pay taxes because you are private property of your government, not because you receive services from it.
Re: (Score:3)
Your passport and U.S. consular service are services, whether you choose to use them or not.
Re: alleged he owed the U.S. government (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
American Freedom is more of a political propaganda slogan than something that is or has been ever a real aspect of our society.
The key aspect of American Freedom, was the separation of the British Empire, where we were imposed to laws where we had no representation to counter or argue for our side.
We currently have a representative Democratic Republic system, in which we elect officials to represent us and our localities needs higher up the government, in which laws are created with our representatives inte
Re: (Score:3)
He was owed $4.2 million based on what the IRS has already identified. There is plenty more they haven't yet. The final tally may well be much higher. As to "being hounded to the point of suicide", most people who own that much money to the IRS are narcissists, but not (unlike the dearly departed in question) actually insane. This guy has well and truly lost his marbles. Applying the same mental standards to him as to everyone else doesn't make any sense.
Life stranger than fiction. (Score:4, Interesting)
Honestly I would not be surprised if we find out in a decade or so that he faked his death, and has been found living someplace, seriously off the grid.
Kind of hope so.
Re:Life stranger than fiction. (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly I would not be surprised if we find out in a decade or so that he faked his death, and has been found living someplace
That would require him to keep his mouth shut.
There is no precedent for him doing that.
Re: (Score:3)
"Depends on who's opening their mouth."
- Ron McTafee
Re: (Score:3)
That would require him to keep his mouth shut.
There is no precedent for him doing that.
There is also no precedent for him being dead, so either way we are in uncharted waters.
Re: (Score:2)
Honestly, I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did.
Re: (Score:2)
I have followed his life for the past decade or so, with great amusement. I find it hard to believe he is gone. :(
The guy is accused of rape and murder in Belize, in addition to being a unpredictable person with a violent temper. [iheart.com]
Yes, there are many people who wanted to smear his reputation, but there are too many witnesses to his behavior to dismiss them all.
Death, but no taxes... (Score:2)
Stuff in someone else's name... (Score:2)
It sure seems like after someone is dead, you would have a rough time collecting anything put in someone else's name who is still alive... since he's dead those things are essentially gifts to the people they are registered under.
Re: (Score:2)
you would have a rough time collecting anything put in someone else's name who is still alive .. since he's dead those things are essentially gifts
If the deceased person could not cover the debts, including the tax debts, then it becomes an insolvent estate and gets treated according to bankruptcy rules.
Putting stuff in someone else's name to avoid debt in a bankruptcy = fraudulent transfer [wikipedia.org].
The fraudulently-conveyed assets, the "Gifts" will be ordered by the courts transferred to the management of the ban
Re: Stuff in someone else's name... (Score:2)
Cryptocurrency and international bank transactions makes all that more difficult. In some cases, impossible.
Yes, the us government has good methods to track crypto transfers it appears (evidenced by their successful seizures) but fundamentally the nature of accounts labeled with a hash code, coin washers, and other mechanisms mean that some of the money they are not going to be able to find. Maybe most of it.
Re: (Score:3)
Cryptocurrency and international bank transactions makes all that more difficult. In some cases, impossible.
Impossible if it was not very much money or the creditor was not the US Government.
the nature of accounts labeled with a hash code, coin washers, and other mechanisms mean that some of the money they are not going to be able to find.
These aren't much of a hinderance when they can work backwards --- All they need to do is make sure to identify all potential friends, family members, etc, whom McAfee m
Re: Stuff in someone else's name... (Score:2)
The next issue the government would encounter is trying to summon someone to civil court who is not in the USA. Or to seize money from an account the us does not control. Or to seize money from a crypto account if they cannot arrest the individual who had the private key (good luck).
Or to extradite someone from new Zealand.
I am not saying any of these barriers are absolute but in many cases the cost to bypass them will cost far more than the government could hope to collect. We will see but if the IRS can
Re: (Score:2)
next issue the government would encounter is trying to summon someone to civil court who is not in the USA
Maybe. Whether summoning the person is even necessary is a different thing; an Action In Rem [wikipedia.org] does not require summoning anyone, And they could potentially pursue it against any assets held in the US or other countries with agreements with the US, even if the owner is overseas - to enforce the repayment.
Or to seize money from a crypto account if they cannot arrest the individual who had the private key
Re: (Score:1)
Putting stuff in someone else's name to avoid debt in a bankruptcy = fraudulent transfer.
Sure but how can you really prove the transfer was fraudulent? It seems very difficult without a clear trail of the kind McAffe is very unlikely to have left.
innocent until proven guilty (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Presumption of innocence is a principle of criminal jurisprudence. Since he is dead, his assets are subject to civil action. There is no such presumption in civil proceedings.
Re: (Score:3)
This. But it's worse.
Civil forfeiture [wikipedia.org] is a dispute between law enforcement and property. Property has no presumption of innocence.
savings for the production company (Score:2)
While the documentary production company probably paid a fixed fee for the rights, their actual production costs will be reduced because there is no exposure to post-sale zaniness that they'll have to portray. Now there's a finite beginning, a middle, and an end to the story, with women paid to crap in his mouth inserted somewhere in between.
Should have dropped US citizenship (Score:2)
Re:Should have dropped US citizenship (Score:4, Informative)
It is difficult to renounce American citizenship. In addition to other barriers, there are substantial exit taxes.
If you have few current assets but expect to have high future earnings, it is best to renounce your citizenship when you are young.
Re: (Score:3)
Dropping US citizenship would have avoided these issues
Dropping citizenship does not clear your tax record. He would have had to drop his citizenship years ago. The taxes being sought go back quite a while.
Also what you can't drop a citizenship leaving you stateless. Only a couple of years ago he was still living in the USA. Only 2 years ago he apparently living on a boat "internationally". I will wager he didn't have another citizenship to fall back on meaning dropping his US citizenship wouldn't have been possible.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well that we know is definitely false since he fled to Cuba in 2013 (8 years ago) after being accused of the murder of his nextdoor neighbour in 2012, and then he returned to the USA in 2014 to live in Tennessee after the case was effectively dropped. I can only find mention of him leaving again in 2016 after the Tax hoohar started. In between he's been in Guatemala, Spain, and I have no doubt he probably had some ties to Costa Rica as well, but frankly he hasn't lived anywhere long enough outside of the US
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed, but those normally come with at least some conditions, and it's not quite as "many" as you think. Quite a few do that's for sure, but having wealth is normally a minimum requirement and not a price tag. Monaco comes to mind, but not the countries he is documented as having been in.
Re: (Score:2)
John McAfee didn't kill himself (Score:1, Troll)
Re:John McAfee didn't kill himself (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
If anyone had enough beef it would be someone he screwed over through any number of his own shady dealings
McAfee bought Demonsaw from my colleague and I for $40M, but paid for it in "preferred" shares of MGT-Future Tense.
Later he pulled a pump-and-dump on the stock, it was delisted, and the stock was worthless.
I told my colleague to stay the fuck away from McAfee but he just wouldn't listen. I get the feeling this stuff happened a lot with McAfee
Re: (Score:2)
The dude had tens of millions of dollars flowing through his hands in shady operations so it's probably not difficult to find someone with a good reason and the means to have him killed. No need to involve any government here.
Re: (Score:2)
The basis of a great conspiracy is that it has to be of a great benefit to those doing the conspiring. The US government wasn't threatened. They gained nothing by his death. In fact they lost quite a bit. He was rich and owed taxes, but he wasn't a powerful kingmaker.
Epstein was a powerbroker who presumably had dirt on the whos who of powerful America as he dragged them all into some very illegal activities.
McAfee was just a rich dude, a certified nutcase whose money just made him go mad in the most literal
Re: (Score:2)
It is unfortunately not unusual for people to commit suicide in jail, but we only care when it's a wealthy white dude. Then we don't want people to think we only care about wealthy white dudes, so we invent a conspiracy.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
And if the US government wanted to whack him they'd have thrown the asshole off his boat years ago or waited until he was in their custody and give him a heart attack or something. They certainly wouldn't go through the protracted effort of indicting him & extradition proceedings and
Re: (Score:1)
Uh huh... (Score:2)
and Al Sharpton owes, and the reports vary, around $4.5 million in back taxes. I would venture to guess that nearly all of the money that McAfee earned was outside the USA, and the Sharpton earnings took place entirely within the USA.
Yes, you could argue that the crypto pump and dump earnings by McAfee were shady at best. I would argue that the "Sharpton Shakedowns" are equally shady.
The point being that the IRS sure seems to pick and choose who they go after. My guess is that the McAfee money is stored in
US tax regime (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Exit tax. The US isn't going to recognize his renunciation if he isn't up to date with taxes and pays the exit tax.
Re:US tax regime (Score:5, Informative)
A lot of Americans who move abroad (myself, for instance) didn't know that filing U.S. taxes was required abroad, or that the U.S. double-taxes income above $100,000 or so (i.e. you must pay income tax to the U.S. and to the country in which you reside on income above $100,000 [americansabroad.org].
You can only renounce your citizenship after you've paid the U.S. government the double tax.
But it can be worse. Much, much, much worse. Because there is a another law, FATCA, that says you must file a form called an FBAR about every foreign account you have outside the U.S. There are no taxes associated with this form, you just have to declare your maximum account balance during the year. If you don't file this form, you have to pay a penalty of 50% of all the money in the account. This is an annual penalty. so if the IRS feels like it, they can take 50% of all your money for every year you don't report it, up to a maximum of 6 years or about 300% of all your money. And I have heard of cases where the U.S. has indeed assessed a penalty larger than all the person's foreign wealth. Again, you can only renounce your citizenship after you've paid the U.S. government this "penalty". Which, again, is not "a tax" but simply a "penalty" on top of all other taxes.
Think about this. A person leaves the U.S. as a child. He works his whole life and by age 65 he's saved $1,000,000. In the last four years he gets a pay raise to $104,000, and in the last year someone, maybe the H&R block guy, mentions that the U.S. has a double-taxation system for that. He grudgingly pays the pays the double tax in the final year, but skips over the taxes in the other three years hoping the IRS won't notice. He thinks it's a fairly small tax anyway and it won't be that a big deal even if the IRS finds out, and since double-taxation isn't fair, why should he report? It's water under the bridge anyway... but the IRS sees "wilful tax evasion" in an "offshore account". As a result, he can be subject to investigation and a penalty of up to $1,500,000 from the IRS.
"Hold on," you might say. "Surely this isn't legal under the 8th Amendment against excessive fines and punishments?" Well, I wouldn't think so either, but it held up in court [lexology.com]:
It's a "penalty", not a "fine", so it's constitutional, get it?
Now, I have no idea if any of this is why McAfee was in prison. But I hope we can agree that this law is pure insanity. As for me? I lived outside Canada since I was a child and now I'm desperately trying to figure out how to get 6 years of records for my accounts. Two accounts, just for example, are located thousands of miles away, contain little money, haven't been used in years and I forgot my password to log in. The banks w
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, there are Canadians with an American parent who later in life find out they're US citizens with all the tax etc shit and that Canada helpfully shares their banking info with America.
Question, does the 8th actually mean anything? I've never heard of a ruling based on it. Here in Canada, 3 strike laws, minimum penalty laws have been struck down as being cruel and unusual. America executes people in slow cruel ways and the courts just say that's fine as it would have been OK in the 18th century.
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps the news mis-reported it or the parent didn't explain it to the kid. Shit the last guy running for Prime Minister with a good chance of winning didn't seem to know he was an American citizen.
Re: (Score:1)
The link you provided clearly states this is not the case.
The U.S. imposes a tax floor. If you move to a country with very low taxes, then you'll have to pay the difference. If you move to a country with a high taxes, then you owe the U.S. nothing.
As the United States tends to have lower taxes than many countries you would go for work, most likely end up paying nothing (other than wasted time filing paperwork).
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks for the correction! I have been misinformed and sadly passed on the misinformation. I am sorry.
I think something is worth noting, though, that could complicate/limit a U.S. citizen's options a lot. For instance, I might put a lot of money into a Canadian registered retirement account, and donate a lot of money to Canadian charities. The Canadian government gives me large tax relief for both of those things, especially giving to charity. But the U.S. doesn't recognize Canadian charities or Canadian
Re: US tax regime (Score:2)
Why do we care about $4.2 million (Score:1)
What a deal, it's probably going to cost tax payers millions to chase the money and only claw back a fraction of it.
Seems as if... (Score:2)
...this is an extreme "if I can't have it neither can you" kind of scenario.
Soo lets burn some money. (Score:2)
What taxes? (Score:4, Insightful)
But Mr. Tax man, I've been operating @ a loss for years... no profit, no tax. Oh.... you mean those crypto gains? I never actually sold them... so unrealized gains....
You mean those speaking engagements? Oh those profits were reinvested in my business in the form of research. Still no profit. The house? Mortgage my man, the interest and deprecation is off-setting the tax... it's a wash.
Oh yea you must be talking about those consultation fees right? Sorry tax man, all of those profits have been "Donated" to the "Not-for-profit foundation" of which I am the chairman, and take no salary. 40% of nothing is.... still nothing.
Where did I get the thousands in my pocket I throw around like water every time I go out? Oh that was a big loan against those untaxable unrealized gains we discussed earlier so... loans aren't income.
You know what though? I think maybe I aught to do my civic duty and donate the paltry sum of an annual middle class income to the political fortunes of.... oh I don't know, who do YOU like?
the lawyer will cost far more than they collect (Score:1)
He owes $4.2M in taxes, and this is going to take lawyers (plural) years (plural, again) to figure out. I am pretty sure a single lawyer will eat that money up in fees in a 2-3 years (at most). Multiple lawyers for say 3 years -> probably $10M+, without breaking a sweat. And it is likely they will fail collecting most of what they claim he owed, anyway.
How I wish governments were strictly opt-in, so that only people who enjoys this kind of shit had to pay for it.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you somehow under the impression that the DOJ goes out and gets some law firm to work for them? The lawyers are salaried employees of the DOJ, with a salary between $71K and $190K.
Planned (Score:2)
So then the US govt didn't kill him (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
We suffer the whims of the collective.. Whaddya gonna do?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Repeat after me: "paying taxes doesn't entitle me to anything."
Repeat that over and over until it sinks in.
You can't prevent someone from driving in Seattle because they bought their gas in Portland. You can't prevent your new neighbor from parking on your street because you've paid more taxes over the years. You can't exclude someone from national defense protection because they're on welfare.
Remember, "paying taxes doesn't entitle me to anything."
Re: (Score:2)
It entitles you to not be thrown in prison for not paying those taxes.
Re: (Score:2)
roman_mir is a dyed-in-wool true Libertardian fanatic. If you do manage to engage with him to the point where his position is so obviously undefendable that even he realizes it you'll probably get some threats and quite a lot of profanity. It can be amusing if you're bored, since he's all mouth and no action.
Re: (Score:1)
Taxes pay for the things a government provides (infrastructure, education, emergency response, national security, etc). If you don't want any of those things, then you'll have to pay for everything yourself (not really possible) or move to a deserted island.
Re:nobody owes anything to any government (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Eritrea does. At a reduced rate of 2%.
It is a big deal, and countries (in particular the Netherlands an UK have been quite vocal about it, expelling diplomats, summoning ambassadors) and international organizations (there is a UN security council resolution against it) have been protesting against it.
Re: (Score:3)
This isn't strictly true. Most countries will still require you to pay taxes on income that is derived in that country, irrespective of where you live.
Re: nobody owes anything to any government (Score:2)
If you're referring to "taxation without representation", then yeah, that's a big part of the split.
But it doesn't apply here, because as long as you haven't renounced citizenship you can still vote from abroad.
Re: (Score:2)
In many countries non-residents can get a VAT refund if you save your receipts and remember to apply for it. Sometimes there's a minimum to qualify and sometimes you need to get a form from the retailer you shopped at. And unless your idea of a vacation is specifically a dedicated "shopping," trip; the refund is low enough and it's enough of a PITA that many people don't bother. But it is allowed and possible (In the UK, everywhere I can recall in the EU, and in Japan in my own experience.).
Re: nobody owes anything to any government (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I can't really tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. Well played.
Re: (Score:2)
or move to a deserted island
Or Spain. And pay them taxes for the benefits that they provide you while you are there.
Re: (Score:1)
Then you'll realize what it's worth. For McAfee it turned out pretty badly.
Re: nobody owes anything to any government (Score:2)
Do you know how batshit crazy it is to think that 50% of police encounters end in death?
Re: (Score:2)
Individuals are not government property, nobody owes anything to any government, you are not slaves that the system wants you to believe that you are.
Wesley Snipes has a life experience he'd like to slap you with.
Re: (Score:2)
Especially when you live outside the country in question. The United States is one of the few countries that puts claims on its citizens anywhere in the world, regardless of where they made the money. Combine this with birthright citizenship and it puts a lot of people in difficult situations. For example people who happened to be born in the US when their parents were going to a university, but who have never lived as child or adult in the US and never plan to. Anyone who goes on to make a lot of money
Re: nobody owes anything to any government (Score:2)
Has this ever happened to anyone who doesn't have a social security number? How would you even file?
This sounds like laws that state women can't cut their hair without their husband's permission. It's technically a de jure law, but only because it's never been implemented and challenged, so it's de facto not a law.
Re: nobody owes anything to any government (Score:2)
Re: nobody owes anything to any government (Score:2)
Is there any reason to believe Boris's parents didn't apply for a social security number, though?
I'm still pretty sure this has more to do with parents signing their kids up for U.S. disability and retirement. You can't request to be part of the American benefits system and then opt out of the tax system.
Re: nobody owes anything to any government (Score:2)
Also, he is described as having duel citizenship, which implies he never renounced his U.S. citizenship.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes it has. I'm not sure of the specifics but there was at least once case documented by the CBC a few years back. Yes you're correct you can't even file without a SSN. I've heard of border guards asking people about their tax status (people I know crossing).
It's also embedded in the banking system. Canadian banks are required to report to the IRS the details of any accounts held by persons known to be US citizens. Sure you could lie to your bank, but if it came to light that you were a US citizen, the
Re: (Score:2)
A UK subsidiary of a US brokerage company closed my account because of my address in the USA. Most UK brokerages won't talk to you if they think you have a connection to the US -- unless, I assume, you have a lot of money.
Re: (Score:2)
Pretty sure this isn't true. There is an exit tax that people who lose their green cards may be required to pay, but once you lose that green card, and pay the tax, the US has no claim on your income.
The US is fairly strict about taking away green cards if you are out of the country for over 12 months. Happened to a family member of mine.
Re: (Score:1)
Quite typical for uneducated Westerners who only know the stability of their society and take it for granted. You have no fucking clue about how humanity works when things are not as optimal as they are for some time.
Try moving to Africa perhaps, see how well their markets work without big government. There you only have your local drug lords and military dictatorships that readily fi
Re: (Score:2)
Places where someone might kill you over your breakfast
Like someplace in the EU. Spain, perhaps? You seem to have a pretty low regard for those socialist countries.
Re: nobody owes anything to any government (Score:2)
Africa is a big place. Most of it is nothing like you describe.
Re: (Score:2)
Can you provide any real-world examples of thriving cities that have no governmental regulation?
Re: nobody owes anything to any government (Score:2)
If there's no government regulation, there's no government. You need regulations to even legitimize the existence of state violence, which is the foundation of government. If you don't have a (near) monopoly on violence, you are a failed state, at best. If you mete out violence capriciously without regards to regulation, you are a warlord.